iTunes Vs. Piracy( old news - 07:15PM Tuesday Jun 07 2005) tags: Fileswapping · stats•According to CNET, legit online music has been a smashing success, a new study indicating iTunes is more popular than many p2p websites. One exec - oddly enthusiastic for a statistician, notes "iTunes is more popular than nearly any P2P service", with 1.7 million households downloading a song in March. •According to P2PNet, at any one time, there are nearly 6,290,327 Americans logged in to p2p networks (p2p site Slyck says 10 million globally). Limewire's Coo Greg Bildson wonders where the NPD group gets its numbers: "I mean we get 6,000,000 or more downloads a month so we’ve got to assume that we’re in more than 1.7 million households.”What about Usenet? Bit Torrent? IRC? How many iTunes users crack their DRM?
Related:- Nobody Actually Knows Precise P2P Traffic Stats
- Sandvine: 44% of Internet Traffic P2P
- Top Torrent Sites According to Google
- Wednesday Evening Links
- Friday Evening Links
- 72% Of P2P Pirates Would Stop With ISP Warning
- Tuesday Evening Links
- The "Death Of P2P" Is Relative, Possibly Wrong
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 Drex_CS
join:2005-05-11
canada | WRONG Piracy is ripping the hell out of iTunes, but it's all about the look. They LOOK like they're doing well so people trust them and give the MPAA more reason to be dumb@$$'s | |
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AbBaZaBbA
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Wildomar, CA | Re: WRONG Enron also LOOKED like it was doing well.
Itunes _ONLY_ purpose for apple is a promotional tool for ipods. Apple (as well as the artists) make hardly anything (a couple cents) off of each download because of the greedy record companies. | |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| Re: WRONG said by AbBaZaBbA  : because of the greedy record companies. As opposed to the greedy users, who think nothing of stealing every bit of music they can find?
Steve
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site | |
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Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA | Re: WRONG Why don't you STFU?
If you got a problem with piracy go somewhere else and bitch.
Anonymous | |
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fundamentalz
The Basics
Premium
join:2004-04-30
Moorpark, CA
| Re: WRONG said by Anonymous :Why don't you STFU? If you got a problem with piracy go somewhere else and bitch. Anonymous Not taking a side here, but what kind of forum would this be if all we ever got was one side of an issue. Disagree with him or not, everyone should get a chance to voice their thoughts on a topic without being slammed for it
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I subscribe to the theory of intellectual osmosis. Unfortunately, I must now cease our conversation and move away from you before my intelligence begins to drop. Good day. | |
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Uhawl
-- watching --
Premium
join:2000-10-21
Asylum
 ·Comcast
| Re: WRONG said by fundamentalz :said by Anonymous :Why don't you STFU? If you got a problem with piracy go somewhere else and bitch. Anonymous Not taking a side here, but what kind of forum would this be if all we ever got was one side of an issue. Disagree with him or not, everyone should get a chance to voice their thoughts on a topic without being slammed for it Well said.
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Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA | Re: WRONG But there are few members that keep bitching about it. It gets old. | |
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Uhawl
-- watching --
Premium
join:2000-10-21
Asylum
·Comcast
| Re: WRONG said by Anonymous :But there are few members that keep bitching about it. It gets old. Oh well... If you don't want to read their replies to stuff, then don't. Justin was kind enough to provide us with an ignore feature. 
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| That's A Good Knee Slapper said by fundamentalz :what kind of forum would this be if all we ever got was one side of an issue. Exsqueeze me while I fall off my chair and try not to die of hysteria. Hahhahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahah hahahahaha hahahahaaahahah. Apparently you don't get around the site very often. --
»www.hermes-press.com/brainwash1.htm | |
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fundamentalz
The Basics
Premium
join:2004-04-30
Moorpark, CA
| Re: That's A Good Knee Slapper said by major marco :Exsqueeze me while I fall off my chair and try not to die of hysteria. Hahhahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahah hahahahaha hahahahaaahahah. Apparently you don't get around the site very often. The thing is, i really do. I for one, am tired of the hate rally's that are the news postings relating to either piracy/RIAA, politicians, or international issues. All the same things are hashed out again and again. Frankly, i was amazed that Steve even bothered to defend his posts at all, seeing that it is almost useless to post any non conforming opinion anymore
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I subscribe to the theory of intellectual osmosis. Unfortunately, I must now cease our conversation and move away from you before my intelligence begins to drop. Good day. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| Re: That's A Good Knee Slapper said by fundamentalz :I for one, am tired of the hate rally's that are the news postings relating to either piracy/RIAA, politicians, or international issues. Define hate rallies.
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»www.hermes-press.com/brainwash1.htm | |
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fundamentalz
The Basics
Premium
join:2004-04-30
Moorpark, CA
| Re: That's A Good Knee Slapper said by major marco :Define hate rallies. What i mean by that is the act of one person stating their opinion on a subject, with all people following just saying "I totally agree". In the occasion that someone disagrees you just get the majority flaming the minority opinion. This usually happens when someone brings up a piracy related issue, when any news regarding countries other than U.S. taking ownership of the internet, or when politicians are mentioned somehow
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I subscribe to the theory of intellectual osmosis. Unfortunately, I must now cease our conversation and move away from you before my intelligence begins to drop. Good day. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| Re: That's A Good Knee Slapper said by fundamentalz :What i mean by that is the act of one person stating their opinion on a subject, with all people following just saying "I totally agree". In the occasion that someone disagrees you just get the majority flaming the minority opinion. This usually happens when someone brings up a piracy related issue, when any news regarding countries other than U.S. taking ownership of the internet, or when politicians are mentioned somehow Funny but I thought that's what free speech and public discourse was all about.
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»www.hermes-press.com/brainwash1.htm | |
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fundamentalz
The Basics
Premium
join:2004-04-30
Moorpark, CA
| Re: That's A Good Knee Slapper I hardly think that public discourse includes anyone who disagrees with the majority opinion to be immediately branded and ostracized. Discourse is fine, but the personal attacks that are becoming all too common in the news posts around here are doing nothing to enhance the discussion
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I subscribe to the theory of intellectual osmosis. Unfortunately, I must now cease our conversation and move away from you before my intelligence begins to drop. Good day. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| Re: That's A Good Knee Slapper said by fundamentalz :I hardly think that public discourse includes anyone who disagrees with the majority opinion to be immediately branded and ostracized. Discourse is fine, but the personal attacks that are becoming all too common in the news posts around here are doing nothing to enhance the discussion Then do what everyone else does. Go crying to the thought police and hey mod the post. That will result in your comments being deleted and the discussion getting locked followed by a sanctimonious warning for flaming or trolling which are fun euphemisms used to let you know that some crybaby didn't like your opinion.
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»www.hermes-press.com/brainwash1.htm | |
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fundamentalz
The Basics
Premium
join:2004-04-30
Moorpark, CA
1 edit | "Hey Mod"ing a comment does not guarantee that it will be deleted, simply that the post is brought to their attention. The call of whether or not to delete a post is their discretion. If they agree that the post was inflamitory, then i am sure that they will take the appropriate action.
By the way, good job of proving my point by labeling people that disagree as cry babies.
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I subscribe to the theory of intellectual osmosis. Unfortunately, I must now cease our conversation and move away from you before my intelligence begins to drop. Good day. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| Re: That's A Good Knee Slapper said by fundamentalz :good job of proving my point by labeling people that disagree as cry babies. People who hit the hey mod button are crybabies. That was my point.
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»www.hermes-press.com/brainwash1.htm | |
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RDins
@comcast.net | Don't cry like a baby when someone disagrees with you. I totally agree with what Steve said, its a great point. | |
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pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
| said by Steve :said by AbBaZaBbA : because of the greedy record companies. As opposed to the greedy users, who think nothing of stealing every bit of music they can find? Steve That's debatable, really, and I'm speaking as an artist. Copyright law is far too reaching any more, far more than the "limited time" of protection that the original founding fathers envisioned. The first copyright secured protection for the IP owner for a term of 14 years. Now it's the owner's life + 75 years.
Lawrence Lessig, founder of Creative Commons, wrote an excellent book called The Free Culture in which me makes some very compelling points. The book is available as a free download at his website: »lessig.org | |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| Re: WRONG said by pianotech :That's debatable, really, and I'm speaking as an artist. Copyright law is far too reaching any more Oh, this is a perfectly fair postiion. Copyright should draw some sort of balance, and there are principled position on both sides that can aim for moving the "rights" dial one way or the other.
But I don't see any way that the guy who burns through 50G of his cable modem cap ever month (not sending a dime to any artist) can escape being called "greedy", even if he dances around being called "thief".
Steve
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site | |
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BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada | Re: WRONG but remember, after the IP owner dies it gets transfered(or is allready owned) by the record company, so even after the artist is long dead somebody other then the artists family is making money off it. | |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| Ahh, that of course, is where you are wrong.
"Stealing Music", of course, is the newspeak/doublespeak of the 2000's. I love how they use the word 'theft', when they are not deprived of anything, and the word "Pirate", to conjure up bloodthirsy lawless rapist. The reality is completely different. By the corporation definition, I am both a thief and a pirate, since I cracked the DRM on the music I legally paid for, and transferred it to my server so I can listen to it on my slimdevices mp3 player.
Stand back and look at the big picture, you'll see that today's corporations and governments have a terrifying similarity to George Orwell's dystopia. The events of 9/11 added an entire new beuraucracy (homeland security) for our government, and it's purpose is to POLICE OUR OWN CITIZENS. I am very alarmed at the invasiveness of the Patriot Act, and even more alarmed at a possible Patriot Act II, which would further expand government surveillance. In his works, Orwell recognized that "trading freedom for security is a death trap," and the whole concept of "homeland security" is a very seductive temptation used to calm the nerves of the proles, convincing them that the govt will take care of them. Only idiots trust their government. Power corrupts, and 2 years in Washington will corrupt even the most moral of men.
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Grand Poobah | |
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Tomek
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Brooklyn, NY | RIAA has monopoly, so they do whatever they want.
Why CD price is comparable in price to DVD?
Greed.
At least with Video I know what I get.
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Semper Fi | |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| Re: WRONG said by RadioDoc :Way to crap the thread there, Steve . Nowhere in that response was "pirate", "thief" or even "P2P" mentioned. So discussing piracy and greed in a thread about piracy and greed is off topic? No wonder you're not a moderator anymoreYour love affair with Apple HUH?
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site | |
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Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: WRONG If you want to talk about piracy and greed, you need look
no further than the industry itself (or more precisely,
the Big Four). The current standard recording contract
scheme is by design exploitative of both artists and
ultimately, the consumer. Just visit Boycott-RIAA and
P2Pnet regularly, and you'll see beyond the industry's
doublespeak. Do major label artists get fairly compensated
for their work - CD sales or online downloads? Hardly. The
labels give them precious little of the profits (royalties)
from them. There have been numerous legal battles over this.
And speaking of lawsuits, not one penny of the $30 million
in settlement money has gone to any of the artists the
industry allegedly represents.
Indies and smaller label (non-RIAA affiliated)
artists do get better deals. But their music is
hardly ever played due to the RIAA marginalizing it
via Clear Channel and other means. They want to control
ALL music, not just their own. The real reason for stopping
filesharing is not any they've publicly claimed and that
much of the major media has parroted, but is control. For
most small and Indie labels, p2p is a godsend as there is
often no other way for listeners to get exposure to their
music. And that's what the RIAA is trying to stop.
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"Kayura or Badamon, whichever you are, you should know that I will never give up this battle. By the will of the Ancient, I shall succeed!" - Shuten (Anubis) from the Ronin Warriors.To RIAA/MPAA - You can sue but you can't catch everyone! | |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| said by Steve :said by RadioDoc :Way to crap the thread there, Steve . Nowhere in that response was "pirate", "thief" or even "P2P" mentioned. So discussing piracy and greed in a thread about piracy and greed is off topic? No wonder you're not a moderator anymore Your love affair with Apple HUH? Heh heh. Steve's just Apple-Curious.  | |
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58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
 ·AT&T Midwest
| said by Steve :said by RadioDoc :Way to crap the thread there, Steve . Nowhere in that response was "pirate", "thief" or even "P2P" mentioned. So discussing piracy and greed in a thread about piracy and greed is off topic? No wonder you're not a moderator anymore Your love affair with Apple HUH? Just as expected you don't address the question--again--but instead attack the questioner. That's at least twice in this subthread alone now. You have no basis for your stand so you resort to even more off topic nonsense. Go back to Usenet.
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Attitudes are contagious. Mine might kill you. | |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
1 edit | Re: WRONG said by RadioDoc : Just as expected you don't address the question-- again--but instead attack the questioner. I've been squarely addressing the topic in this thread, and it looks to have been a lively discussion with pretty good points raised on the "other" side and bringing about a clarity of views.
The only two off-topic posts have been yours and Mr. STFU.
Steve
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site | |
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58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: WRONG And again. You really don't get it, do you?
You are not a mod anymore either (gee I wonder why?), so you have no right to determine who is and who is not a moron. However, calling someone a moron here is a violation of the site's posting rules.
The OP stated a fact, and then an opinion. You flamed the person and ignored the question, just like any garden-variety message board troll always does. Putting certain words in bold face makes you look even sillier. You have no basis for your attack so you just talk louder.
The greed of the RIAA-member companies is legendary. You can't make that go away by using sleazy debating tactics.
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Attitudes are contagious. Mine might kill you. | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: WRONG said by RadioDoc :The greed of the RIAA-member companies is legendary. You can't make that go away by using sleazy debating tactics. Steve 's argument is that their greed isn't a valid reason to engage in piracy. It's an entirely moot point and he's completely right.
Show me the part in the rule books where wrongs should be counter-acted upon by an equal wrong.
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This signiture pisses you off. | |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| said by RadioDoc :You are not a mod anymore either (gee I wonder why?) I resigned; shall we speculate about you?The greed of the RIAA-member companies is legendary. You can't make that go away by using sleazy debating tactics. I don't believe I ever tried to. Holding the thread up to a strong light, we see that I called them thugs and hoped that their entire business model would go away. I am not sure that qualifies me as any kind of RIAA fanboy.
But they are not the only greedy ones. Those who are trying to bring about better business models are doing good work, but there is a large contingent of those who are not taking this principled approach, and just take everything they can get without any consideration for artists and won't ever pay anybody.
RIAA's greed at least has a fig leaf of moral cover, in that they are acting as agents for valid copyright owners. Those who steal in wholesale have no such principled cover.
Steve
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site | |
| | | | | | | | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: WRONG said by Steve :said by RadioDoc :You are not a mod anymore either (gee I wonder why?) I resigned; shall we speculate about you? No need to speculate. I stood up to the bullshit that made people like you a mod and called a spade a spade. I refused to compromise my beliefs. They fired me for it. You resigned because you couldn't take the heat.The greed of the RIAA-member companies is legendary. You can't make that go away by using sleazy debating tactics. I don't believe I ever tried to. Holding the thread up to a strong light, we see that I called them thugs and hoped that their entire business model would go away. I am not sure that qualifies me as any kind of RIAA fanboy. But they are not the only greedy ones. Those who are trying to bring about better business models are doing good work, but there is a large contingent of those who are not taking this principled approach, and just take everything they can get without any consideration for artists and won't ever pay anybody. RIAA's greed at least has a fig leaf of moral cover, in that they are acting as agents for valid copyright owners. Those who steal in wholesale have no such principled cover. Steve
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Attitudes are contagious. Mine might kill you. | |
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Derek_Wildstar
Why the fck is Shane walking in there?
join:2001-02-24
Iscandar
| Re: WRONG said by RadioDoc :said by Steve :said by RadioDoc :You are not a mod anymore either (gee I wonder why?) I resigned; shall we speculate about you? No need to speculate. I stood up to the bullshit that made people like you a mod and called a spade a spade. I refused to compromise my beliefs. They fired me for it. You resigned because you couldn't take the heat. Looks like the pissing contest has begun in earnest.
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"One thousand years of pain!"
All hail the Hypnotoad! | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| Re: WRONG | |
| | | | | redhatnation
Premium
join:2005-06-02
Woodbridge, VA
·Comcast
| said by RadioDoc : iTunes is mediocre at best. Can you enlighten this iTunes user about why you think it is mediocre at best? Seriously.
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My server has been up longer than your server. | |
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guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix
| said by Steve :said by AbBaZaBbA : because of the greedy record companies. As opposed to the greedy users, who think nothing of stealing every bit of music they can find? Steve The central economic distinction between information and physical property is that information can be transferred without leaving the possession of the original owner.
Unbounded intellectual property is very different from physical property and can no longer be protected as though these differences did not exist. For example, if we continue to assume that value is based on scarcity, as it is with regard to physical objects, we will create laws that are precisely contrary to the nature of information, which may, in many cases, increase in value with distribution.
Perhaps those who are part of the problem will simply quarantine themselves in court, while those who are part of the solution will create a new society based, at first, on piracy and freebooting. It may well be that when the current system of intellectual property law has collapsed, as seems inevitable, that no new legal structure will arise in its place.
The laws regarding unlicensed reproduction of commercial software are clear and stern...and rarely observed. Software piracy laws are so practically unenforceable and breaking them has become so socially acceptable that only a thin minority appears compelled, either by fear or conscience, to obey them.
Whenever there is such profound divergence between law and social practice, it is not society that adapts. Against the swift tide of custom, the software publishers' current practice of hanging a few visible scapegoats is so obviously capricious as to only further diminish respect for the law.
Part of the widespread disregard for commercial software copyrights stems from a legislative failure to understand the conditions into which it was inserted. To assume that systems of law based in the physical world will serve in an environment as fundamentally different as cyberspace is a folly for which everyone doing business in the future will pay.
When the primary articles of commerce in a society look so much like speech as to be indistinguishable from it, and when the traditional methods of protecting their ownership have become ineffectual, attempting to fix the problem with broader and more vigorous enforcement will inevitably threaten freedom of speech. The greatest constraint on your future liberties may come not from government but from corporate legal departments laboring to protect by force what can no longer be protected by practical efficiency or general social consent.
Furthermore, the increasing difficulty of enforcing existing copyright and patent laws is already placing in peril the ultimate source of intellectual property - the free exchange of ideas.
Can one explain how the sharing,(A copy) From an original
in this case a cd or song is stealing.? All I see is it's stealing.Your stealing,Your stealing.Money out of the mouths of the **AA's.When A.If that someone didn't buy the original
cd at this very moment.B.It's impossible to know after hearing the cd would one like it enough to purchase the disk..err contents.?. C.Most major art galleries will sell a reproduction of the original painting,at a fraction of the originals true value.Did the artist of the Mona Lisa get ripped off in that case.? No of course not.Suppose one hired a private artist to paint a picture from a book you borrowed.
Is that stealing from the original artist as well.? No of course not.Can some one please explain how one can label something theft,when the physical property,is in the hands of its owner.? | |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| Re: WRONG said by guitarzan :The central economic distinction between information and physical property is that information can be transferred without leaving the possession of the original owner. Yes, both you and G_Poobah make the completely correct point that "theft" and "stealing" only apply if the original owner is deprived of the use of the item. If I take a CD from your desk, it's clearly stealing, but if I merely make a copy then it is not.
I, however, continue to use this term informally and pejoratively in reference the the disdain for the rights of artists by those who engage in wholesale piracy.
Fair use and "hey check out this cool song" is smalltime stuff that most people don't care about. I certainly don't. The amount of trading that qualifies for "fair use" varies widely in different people (especially in those who take a dim view of the whole notion of intellectual property).
But being exposed to those who do this notoriously and brazenly: "I don't ever pay for music/ software/ DVDs", bragging about the size of their collections, preparing cover stories in case they are caught, etc. This bothers me a lot, and I don't mind calling them names.
Steve
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site | |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| Re: WRONG said by mrchris :Maybe you should clear that thick pro-RIAA head of yours and see the facts yourself: I only "support" the RIAA in the narrow sense that they have legal ownership of the property they're "protecting", but everything I know about them suggests they're thugs to everybody they deal with. It's hard to imagine a worse way they could have addressed the whole music trading issue than the ham-fisted way they are doing now.How do musicians get paid for downloads? Simple: collective licensing lets people download unlimited music for a flat monthly fee ($5-$10) and the money goes to musicians and labels according to popularity. This solution preserves the cultural benefits of p2p, gets musicians way more money, and levels the playing field. I think this is a fantastic idea. Creating a new market for artists benefits everybody: artists, users, and the culture in general. I'd participate in this.
But (1) it must include only willing particpants, and (2) this has nothing to do with those who have no intention of paying for music no matter what the business model is.
Steve
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site | |
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Fatal Vector
@sfldmi.ameritech
| Re: WRONG
UMMM...The RIAA does not own the material, or "property". The record labels and artists do. The RIAA is only the association formed by these labels to represent them, particularly with the government. The RIAA is the lobbying arm of the industry. The Labels act through them so that they dont have to take the PR heat directly over their suing spree and tactics. That's what "Associations" are for. If the RIAA gets crapped upon in the public eye, the labels will disavow their actions, and then when the heat dies down, the RIAA will simply morph to another corporate name and carry on.
"As allways, if you are caught or killed, the secretary will disavow your actions. Good luck, Mr Phelps". | |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| Re: WRONG said by Fatal Vector:
.The RIAA does not own the material, or "property". The record labels and artists do. They apparently have the legal right to go after violators on behalf of the artists/labels. I used the term inartfully, but the fact that it's agency relationship rather than an ownership one doesn't change the big picture that much.
In that respect the labels have done a good job: RIAA is Satan incarnate, while the labels don't take anywhere near the heat the should.
Nothing would please me more than to see the whole business model disappear, replaced with something more decentralized and more sensitive to actual market forces. It's hard to imagine a worse system than we have now.
Those who want to change the system to benefit the users and artists are doing everybody a service, but those who steal with no intention of every paying (under any business model) are not.
Steve
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site | |
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thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY
| Re: WRONG excuse the bad grammar/syntax: it's been a long day, and I'm tired
It's an odd thing.
I hate buying CDs because I know that money is
a) going to the people who wish to sue me for dling music
b) going mostly to the labels and not to the artist
c) way too much to spend for a media technology over 20 years old with obvious limitations, AFTER they got in trouble for fixing prices(and continue to get away with it)
However, with this "stealing", with a variety of lossless and lossy copies of what I want available, I now own over 13 albums. Three of them, an OST, combine to be worth over $150. Before I began downloading music, I had one eminem CD, which I now seriously regret buying.
My point is that, wheather it's because people still want the original, yet don't always want to deal with a cumbersome physical copy, or wheather they don't feel like paying immediately, it works in the label's favor. Even with their currently horrible business model(artist gets shit: and CDs are extremely expensive), CD sales went up 11% the first year napster was popular and 5% the year after, and only sunk down the year when the RIAA created less than half the amount of CDs as the year before.
While in black & white terms, one may see it as morally wrong, I see it as practically right since it seems to be helping their business. The U.S. has done things like this too, when they fixed other countries's elections to prevent the spread of communism. Was it morally wrong? Yes, but was it the practical thing to do? Yes, and it wound up benefitting many.. to me, it's the same here.
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The Problem With Music.
Our Rationale
Time to rewrite the DMCA. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·T-Mobile US
| said by Steve :said by AbBaZaBbA : because of the greedy record companies. As opposed to the greedy users, who think nothing of stealing every bit of music they can find? Steve Oh yes. Let's talk about greedy corporations first, shall we?
When we finished, we can talk about user "greed". | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| Please clarify. Are you against casual file trading where people just share and download a few songs or just the power users who brag about the gigs of stuff they have and would rather pay hundreds of dollars NOT paying for music? You didn't really clarify that on the start, and that might account for some of the bickering. | |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| Re: WRONG said by SRFireside :Please clarify. Are you against casual file trading where people just share and download a few songs or just the power users who brag about the gigs of stuff they have and would rather pay hundreds of dollars NOT paying for music? You didn't really clarify that on the start, and that might account for some of the bickering. I thought I was pretty clear on this ("burning through their 50G caps"), but I'll say it explicity.
Almost everybody shares with their friends, and this is not new to the computer world: making a copy of a cassette was common years and years ago. It's not really legal, but in many cases this casual trading *does* lead to music purchases. I know that people have sent me MP3s before: if I like it, I buy it.
Or if you own a vinyl album, grabbing the MP3 of a song that somebody else ripped doesn't seem like "stealing" to me either. You own a license to the music, you're just getting the bits in a different form.
These folks are not the problem.
It's the power users who are flagrant and brazen about it. I've heard people say "I won't ever pay for music" who are the problem. It's the teenagers to whom it *never occurs to them* that music is something you buy who are the problem.
Steve
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Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site | |
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pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
| said by AbBaZaBbA :Enron also LOOKED like it was doing well. Apple (as well as the artists) make hardly anything (a couple cents) off of each download because of the greedy record companies. I don't disagree about the major labels being greedy, but remember that iTunes also sells a lot of indie label artists (and also unsigned artists throug CDBaby) too. I make 65 cents per download, which is more than a "couple cents." | |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| Re: WRONG said by pianotech :]I don't disagree about the major labels being greedy, but remember that iTunes also sells a lot of indie label artists (and also unsigned artists throug CDBaby) too. I make 65 cents per download, which is more than a "couple cents." Wow, this is the money you get per-song via iTunes? That's actually very good. Do they have a blanket policy of selling anyone hooked in to CDBaby? Does CDBaby take any of that? | |
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pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA
1 edit | Re: WRONG Wow, this is the money you get per-song via iTunes? That's actually very good. Do they have a blanket policy of selling anyone hooked in to CDBaby? Does CDBaby take any of that?
Yep, that's the take from iTunes, which I agree is quite good. CDBaby takes 9% of my take, and the $.65 is what I get after iTunes and CDBaby get their share. Not a bad deal at all, all things considered. I'd rather they do it without DRM though.
And yes, anyone who has a CD with CDBaby will be on all the major sites (Rhapsody, iTunes, Napster, MusicNet, MusicMatch, etc) as long as they've signed the non-exclusive digital distribution deal with them.
Have you ever been to »www.mp3tunes.com? They sell the entire CDBaby catalog in open mp3 format, and it's in VBR mp3's. Very good quality, no drm! Magnatune is good too ( »www.magnatune.com ) if you haven't tried it out yet. No major label stuff there though...
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Original music, no drm
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| | | N Yazdi
join:2004-04-19
Omaha, NE | itunes is a very nifty program when you play around with it, i was a mmjb/wmp/winamp user but now use itunes almost exclusively | |
| | jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS | Actually that is the RIAA in this case, but who's counting. Thier both crooked.
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BTK is Caught!!!! | |
| RogerDucky
join:2002-01-04
Plano, TX
| Hmmmm. iTunes probably *is* more popular than any single P2P service, but is probably less popular than all other P2P services combined.
Then again, if going purely by the amount of money made via the service, iTunes probably has more recurring income than all other P2P services combined. | |
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redsonrising
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Sacramento, CA
·AT&T U-Verse
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Pepski Check the timing of the iTunes download increases with their Promotions for free downloads with Pepsi purchases. Bet you can explain a nice chunk of their volume increase away with that.
r_r
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Auditor, I’m no stinkin’ Auditor. I’m a Fiscal Archeologist! | |
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braden
join:2001-12-12
Aliso Viejo, CA | SHHHHH! Usenet? Who's ever heard of that?
Let us never speak of this again. | |
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KeepOnRockin
Music Lover Forever
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Beaverton, OR | Re: SHHHHH! Right.
Keep it under your hat.  | |
| | | Freezone
join:2000-09-29
Southfield, MI | Re: SHHHHH! As long as there is a country for servers to hide in USENET will never die. | |
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Kxpuc
join:2004-05-04
Houston, TX | blah i pay for my music...from a company that's not based in the US so it's cheap lol | |
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mrchris
We don't miss you Bush
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | Re: blah Is Century Media under the RIAA blanket? | |
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stet
Volitar Prime
join:2002-03-08
Warren, MI
| I get a ton of CDs through CM. Can't beat their prices (for new) and they have a great selection if you are into metal/prog. Too bad their shipping is so slow though. I also love the ton of sample discs they include with their orders. I've "discovered" so much music through their samplers.
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I am of the stars.
I am called "Forever".
Eternity courses through my veins. | |
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GanJa
Just Say No
Premium
join:2003-02-24
Crack House | Yeh well And most are prob free D/ls From pepsi.
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Get off the T-I-P of My D-I-C. | |
|
ack 21
| hey now "Re: WRONG
Why don't you STFU?
If you got a problem with piracy go somewhere else and bitch.
Anonymous"
Anonymous why don't you STFU? You never have anything intelligent to say anyway. Don't you have a broken skateboard to fix? | |
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See 12 replies to this post | |
Rob850
join:2003-04-11
Mary Esther, FL | Stop buying CD's If we all stopped buying CDs this crap will stop because the RIAA will cease to exist. Please tell your frineds to stop buying CD's.
Rob
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»rob.luniac.com/w0kie | |
| | jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS | Re: Stop buying CD's Should be cds, books, posters, music DVDs anything at all related to the music companies.
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BTK is Caught!!!! | |
| | | utahluge
join:2004-10-14
Draper, UT
·Comcast
| Re: Stop buying CD's Stop buying CD's? That would make them come after the downloaders even more.
I remember from a music class that there is a point that music becomes "public". Something about after the music is played at a concert, or something like that, it has been released to the "public" and is no longer a copywrited material. It may have just been the live version or something but I know its true cuz our school used "public" music for school activities. When we tried to bring in our own music it had to be approved cuz sometimes the music we brought in wasn't "public".
Just food for thought....maybe someone knows more than I. | |
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R1
join:2003-03-08
Buffalo Grove, IL | Re: Stop buying CD's When they come to your house uninvited. I'll do what I do to all people that come to my house uninvited; I greet them with a weapon. | |
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annony name
@Dial1.Tam
| Figures Figures don't lie, liars figure. I would guess that a lot of their downloads are promotional giveaways. If there are 6 to 10 million p2p filetraders online at any given time I would have to guess they are downloading at least 10s 0f millions of music files a day and giving copies to their friends. I doubt itunes is approaching 1% of the market yet. | |
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