 
Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Ouch quote:
meaning that Apple would need to physically replace the chips on phones exhibiting the behavior.
Cah-shing. Apple can't continue to avoid this problem and fixing it will sting. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
| Re: Ouch said by adisor19  :said by Dogfather : quote:
meaning that Apple would need to physically replace the chips on phones exhibiting the behavior.
Cah-shing. Apple can't continue to avoid this problem and fixing it will sting. BS. This is just immature firmware. Apple/Infineon needs to get their act together. Adi What makes you think that's the case? The article states specifically it's not firmware fixable and will require a chip replacement. | |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: Ouch Ditto... | |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: Ouch An infineon chip or this infineon chip is used in other handsets? | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Ouch My Samsung ZX-20 has a Qualcomm (has qcomm sticker on it), and Motorola V3xx has a different 3G chip.
Motorola V3xx works well, Samsung ZX-20 drops calls (replaced phone 3x under warranty for the issue).
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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Jim Gurd
Premium
join:2000-07-08
Plymouth, MI
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Ouch said by en102 :Motorola V3xx works well, I'll second that. I've only dropped a few calls and that was when the 3G service was new in my area. It's been over a year since I had a call drop.
I think Motorola makes awesome phones. I hope that whoever buys the phone division from them keeps the quality intact.
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Calling an illegal alien an undocumented worker is like calling a crack dealer an unlicensed pharmacist. | |
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Corona
It's cool, I'm takin it back
Premium
join:2000-03-14
Aubrey, TX
| said by Matt :What makes you think that's the case? The article states specifically it's not firmware fixable and will require a chip replacement. The article implies "According to Windsor, the problem likely isn't firmware upgradeable" (emphasis mine). I would like to know if there is any fact behind Windsor's speculation. | |
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| | | yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON | They don't even KNOW what chipset Apple is using. This is pure speculation and from a *financial* analyst with not technical knowledge. This is a non story until some actual facts show up. | |
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| | voipdabbler
join:2006-04-27
Kalispell, MT
| If you read wired.com today, part of the reason some may being saying it's an issue with Apple's chipset is that, supposedly, some AT&T employees have laid the blame on Apple's chipset when they've gotten complaints about the performance of the 3G iPhone. Like others quoted in the wired article, I suspect it's a combination of factors. No matter how you look at it, blame is deserved all around, especially if steps aren't taken to acknowledge the issues and fix them at some reasonable point in time. (In the US, I'd suggest Apple and AT&T do a better job of BETA testing. With NDAs upheld in courts here, there's no excuse for not adequately beta testing hardware and software.) | |
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Maynard G Krebs
@teksavvy.com
| Re: Ouch said by voipdabbler :If you read wired.com today, part of the reason some may being saying it's an issue with Apple's chipset is that, supposedly, some AT&T employees have laid the blame on Apple's chipset when they've gotten complaints about the performance of the 3G iPhone. Like others quoted in the wired article, I suspect it's a combination of factors. So what are Canadian iPhone users saying? There's 3G and Edge up here, just a stones-throw away, but with a different network provider (Rogers/Fido). If the phones sold in Canada aren't having the same issues then more than likely it's an ATT problem.
Most of the iPhone users I know are pleased with the service here and the quality of reception and voice/audio fidelity. NB. I don't use an iPhone. | |
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join:2006-04-27
Kalispell, MT
| Re: Ouch Supposedly, there are reports of problems coming in from various networks around the world, especially after the recent firmware upgrade--GPS reportedly deteriorated in most markets around the world after that upgrade. The wired article references a CNET blog set up to compile a list of bugs with the 3G iPhone. That site has a pole that, if people are being accurate, shows that almost 25 percent of the bugs being reported are from networks outside North America. They don't break down the North American problems between Canada and the US, so I can't tell you what percentage of Canadian users are having problems. However, some Canadian users definitely had problems with GPS after the firmware upgrade. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Serious Defect.... Almost certainly, customers will demand replacement phones (and want them free.) Apple/AT&T will probably try to make it conditional (new 2 year contract, for example.)
Either way, a serious screw-up. | |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| Re: Ouch said by Dogfather : quote:
meaning that Apple would need to physically replace the chips on phones exhibiting the behavior.
Cah-shing. Apple can't continue to avoid this problem and fixing it will sting. What problem? Nothing to see here. Move along . . . .
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | I guess none of you realize that because it's a financial analyst, he likely has LOTS of technical knowledge, especially about what chip Apple is using. That's how they make decisions. | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| »news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10016···1_3-0-20
Ny Teknik, a Swedish tech newspaper, has published the account of a scientist at the University of Gälve who investigated the iPhone 3G and discovered that the phone is not as sensitive to 3G signals as other phones. ... is claiming that the iPhone 3G's nominal sensitivity is below that of published standards for 3G phones, meaning the phone drops the connection with a 3G tower more quickly than other 3G phones as it moves away from the tower and averages slower data speeds when connected.
The researcher told Ny Teknik that such an issue would have been easily discovered in the certification process for the iPhone 3G in the various countries in which it is now available, implying that a manufacturing problem is to blame. Foxconn, also known as Hon Hai, is believed to be the manufacturer of the iPhone 3G, and reportedly increased production of the unit at the beginning of this month.
On Wednesday, Vodafone Australia joined the ranks of carriers blaming Apple for the reception issues with the iPhone 3G. T-Mobile Netherlands is telling its customers that either a hardware or software issue is to blame
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
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B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Meat? Uh, he's an "analyst" with a securities brokerage who's only "almost certain" where the chip even comes from, let alone if there's a perceivable flaw.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomura_Securities
Who is this guy and should his apparent gut feeling be afforded this much weight?
I mean, "issues are typical of an immature chipset and radio protocol stack" is a pretty darned broad swipe.
-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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bcronin
Premium
join:2004-03-27
Hyde Park, NY | Re: Meat? Yeah and you have to wonder whether this brokerage firm may have a financial interest in seeing Apple and/or Infineon take a hit. Oh wait, but that would be unethical ... | |
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burgerwars
join:2004-09-11
Northridge, CA
 ·voip.ms
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by B :Uh, he's an "analyst" with a securities brokerage who's only "almost certain" where the chip even comes from, let alone if there's a perceivable flaw. » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomura_SecuritiesWho is this guy and should his apparent gut feeling be afforded this much weight? I mean, "issues are typical of an immature chipset and radio protocol stack" is a pretty darned broad swipe. -- B Maybe he's shorting Apple stock big time.
But it's not news that phone's jump between 3G and EDGE where calls get cut off. From what I've read, and from my own experience with an AT&T Samsung phone, it happens. In my home, I have a weak 3G signal (one or two bars), and a medium to weak EDGE signal (two to three bars). Jumping from EDGE to 3G I've lost connectivity many times. | |
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| | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Re: Meat? No no, it's not normal, it's clearly a sign that you have a deadly "immature chipset and radio protocol stack" in your phone, and it should be recalled immediately.
-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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No to ESPN
@sbcglobal.net | iRubes It is amazing that if this is the case that testing did not case this issue to show up. That is assuming that real world testing was done.
It is amazing how this years wonder TOY can become trash in only one month.
iPhonies for iRubes. | |
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Pentaxian
Premium
join:2008-01-23
West Milford, NJ | if you... if you go into settings/network 3G and switch the 3G network to ON and there is no 3G service, you get 'NO SERVICE' until you power the phone off and on again.. Something is definitely wrong there.. | |
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SkellBasher
Yes Sorto, I'll take my Prozac
join:2000-10-22
North Tonawanda, NY
1 edit | Re: if you... said by Pentaxian :if you go into settings/network 3G and switch the 3G network to ON and there is no 3G service, you get 'NO SERVICE' until you power the phone off and on again.. Something is definitely wrong there.. That isn't universally correct.
I cross an EDGE / HSDPA boundary every day to and from work. I flip the 3G switch off most days when I get home because I'm on my WiFi, and turn it back before I leave. (Side note... wish that was automatic...)
I have never seen a NO SERVICE message when turning 3G on in an EDGE area.
With respect to the analyst, take anything they say with a grain of salt.
If he's an analyst at a brokerage firm covering AAPL, he could make a phone call or two and find out for sure what chip was actually in the phone. It's irresponsible for him to make any technical assumptions about solutions when he has no background in such matters.
I'll give Apple the time to see what they can do with this before passing judgment. | |
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powerspec88
Premium
join:2007-03-11
Harrisonville, MO
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: if you... said by SkellBasher :said by Pentaxian :if you go into settings/network 3G and switch the 3G network to ON and there is no 3G service, you get 'NO SERVICE' until you power the phone off and on again.. Something is definitely wrong there.. That isn't universally correct. I cross an EDGE / HSDPA boundary every day to and from work. I flip the 3G switch off most days when I get home because I'm on my WiFi, and turn it back before I leave. (Side note... wish that was automatic...) I have never seen a NO SERVICE message when turning 3G on in an EDGE area. Same here, i have no problems going from HSDPA to EDGE as i do every day to and from work. The only problem i have is in downtown Kansas City, i can go from 3G to EDGE w/o warning standing in the same spot, then go right back to 3G. | |
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Seandhi
Seeing From a New Level
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Humble, TX
| Re: if you... I posted the same thing in another, similar front-page story about the same thing, but both my 8525 and my Tilt would drop calls on the 3G-Edge hand-off. My iPhone does not. I don't know if there has been a hardware revision (I seriously doubt it) between the release and when I got my phone (last week), but I am not having any connectivity issues.
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You're an enlightened cat, and I dig that. | |
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No to ESPN
@sbcglobal.net | Re: if you... Maybe it should have been CDMA. (Falls out of chair laughing.) | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: if you... 3G actually uses a form of CDMA (WCDMA) for its air interface.
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chotty
join:2004-07-12
Birmingham, AL
| Same here too. I turn off 3G at home for WIFI. Never have seen a "No Service" indicator. i have seen 3G go to Edge while WIFI is off (downtown B'ham, Al). Very good 3G coverage here, for the most part.
*I have also seen degradation in GPS since the 2.0.1 firmware though... especially indoors. | |
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| | Pentaxian
Premium
join:2008-01-23
West Milford, NJ
| Re: if you... First off - it's supposed to hop between networks seamlessly. And it does not. ptrowski is lucky that after a MINUTE OR TWO he gets service again, my iPhone does not and requires a reboot. But, ptrowski proves my point, 'No Service' is available when switching from 3G to Edge for, in his words, 1 to 2 minutes.. That would imply that something is wrong. No? | |
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Cozmot
@verizon.net
| Re: if you... I discovered the same problem when switching to 3G and getting"NO Service," if 3G isn't available. However, if I turn 3G off after that I get EDGE again. This just started happening after the firmware update.
I'll give Apple time to figure this stuff out, but if there is a hardware problem, they'd better fix it or they'll destroy the confidence that they already didn't destroy with the MobileMe/iPhone2 launch debacle. | |
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| | | | Pentaxian
Premium
join:2008-01-23
West Milford, NJ | Re: if you... Cozmot - Ya kknow, you cold be on to something.. I too think maybe it was an update issue.. That and I can no longer send an SMS with a picture!!! That's one way to keep people from bitching about the ATT link!!! | |
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:
·VOIPo
·Metrocast Communic..
·AT&T DSL Service
·ViaTalk
| said by Pentaxian :First off - it's supposed to hop between networks seamlessly. And it does not. ptrowski is lucky that after a MINUTE OR TWO he gets service again, my iPhone does not and requires a reboot. But, ptrowski proves my point, 'No Service' is available when switching from 3G to Edge for, in his words, 1 to 2 minutes.. That would imply that something is wrong. No? I should tell you when I did that test, I was not in a 3G coverage area, only EDGE. Here at work I have full bars 3G. Tested it again, and it went to one bar, then switched after 5-6 second.
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"A religious war is like children fighting over who has the strongest imaginary friend."
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org | |
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eyekahn
join:2008-06-22
Hanover, MD | But Apple says there is no problem So... Case closed, right? | |
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ultracooldave
@verizon.net | Re: I hope Apple does not take a RAZOR to their customers. There is simply too much "buzz" from all over the world (different providers)- take the phone back if you can without penalty! | |
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anon 3g user
| it isn't the iPhone My iPhone actually handles the 3G->EDGE handoff better than any of my 3G handsets in the past, including my Blackjack I, II, Treo 750 and Tilt. | |
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Ohuiohui
@comcast.net
| Same story different era The same thing happened to intel with their first or second generation of Pentium processors. This was back in the 90's I think. Some expert ran a complex calculation with his computer and discovered the answer was wrong.
Upon releasing his findings there was of course denial at first but then intel came around and ponied up to the claim. Then intel had the gall to come out and say they would replace the 5 gabillion chips already out in the field but only if a user could prove that they perform calculations that required the fix. This was something like to the 6th decimal place on a spread sheet calculation if memory serves. Then the consumer industry was furious at intel for how dare they dictate who and who does not need to get a new chip just based on what calculations they perform.
If memory serves.... there were some default entries left out in the Pentium's registers or some kind of "lookup" table.
It will be interesting to see how Apple handles this. | |
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ATT_User
@charter.com
| The Big Bounce to EDGE Happens With Other AT&T 3G Phones Too
Although I'm sure AT&T would rather place the blame on the Hardware, all 4 of my family's 3G phones keep bouncing back to EDGE/GSM and none of them are iPhones. They do it while idle or while on a call. Very annoying.
AT&T's 3G network just plain sucks in some areas and lacks capacity and the backhaul to maintain several concurrent sessions at once.
True, the iPhone gets all the attention: good or bad. But AT&T needs a bit of heat to improve the overall network quality. Maybe by placing the heat on Apple, AT&T can buy itself a bit more time.
Even though the voice quality on EDGE leaves a lot to be desired, it is still much stronger than 3G.
I watch my phone's 3G signal indicator while placing my Moto v3xx on the desk. It starts off with full bars, then within a minute or two eventually goes to zero bars then the Big Bounce to EDGE commences. | |
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I_Luv_Cingular
@tmodns.net
| Re: The Big Bounce to EDGE Happens With Other AT&T 3G Phones Too This happens to me too. I live in the Hollywood, CA. area.
Our AT&T 3G phones to that too.
We only have 10 MHz of PCS capacity that is being used for 3G while EDGE takes up way more than that.
AT&T is really skimping on the network in our area focusing on hitting sales numbers than improving their service quality.
Voice quality over the regular network continues to deteriorate too. Too many customers, not enough network investment. | |
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iPhone May Have 3G Chip Flaw
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I hope Apple does not take a RAZOR to their customers.
Shortly after Cingular introduced the Motorola Razor, customers began to complain about problems with their handsets. It was determined that there was a hardware problem in the Razor. A local Cingular dealer advised me that Motorola/Cingular would not replace the defective handsets even though they knew they were defective. I hope that AT+T/Apple does not treat customers with defective handsets the same way.