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join:2005-01-25
Atlanta, GA | Specs, access details, etc.? What is the bandwidth afforded to the average resident? Is this free, for a no-profit fee, or something else? | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: Specs, access details, etc.? Libraries are free, new system looks to be pay, details are scarce as it's early in development - it's all in the articles. | |
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jsinaiko
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Chicago, IL | Re: Specs, access details, etc.? Better than Joe Bast's way of doing things - they are an embarrassment to the city.
For me the intriguing thing is that Ed Burke is the sponsor - who is paying the guy? He isn't into pro bono work, even as a pol! | |
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technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA | Don't embarrass yourself, RTFA =) | |
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| kdandaoc
join:2003-10-13
608052427
| Nothing in this city is for free. This just means maggie wants a new park and little dick has to scrape up the cash to pay for it. His usual methods like having the dept. of rev ticket people to death, or like raising park fees an additional 250% are starting to get old. Maybe this revenue could be used to take that flying saucer off of what was once a reputable stadium called soldier field. (I'm glad it was built, it has done so much for quality of play by the Bears). One question however, are these hotspots going to be installed in the ghetto where the only remaining things are burnt out buildings and brand new flower boxes? | |
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ag1010
join:2001-06-11
Kenosha, WI | They should instead spend the money on saving the CTA. The Chicago Transit Authority in on the verge of collapse. I rather be able to take the bus and train to my destination then browse the web at some park. | |
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jsinaiko
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Chicago, IL
 ·AT&T Midwest
| Wifi in the Heartland? What about the Heartland Institute, located on La Salle Street in Chicago? Will they move to a more right-wing, capitalist town? Sic Dick Chaney on us? Just get depressed?
I'm certainly for it. it is ironic that Ed Burke, an old-line clout-heavy deal-maker is the guy sponsoring this. I would have thought that he'd be more into Joe Bast's - the CEO of Heartland - way of seeing things. You know, the "all the money goes in my and my friends direction, and you get the lump of coal." Good for Big Ed if he wants up plebes to get free or inexpensive wireless access. I'd rather payt crooks in Chicago than crooks in Texas. Al least it's spending locally!  | |
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jsinaiko
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Wifi in the Heartland? Right. When I lived in rural Ireland our ISP was in the back of the local video store. if there was a problem I just drove over there and helped the guy fix it.
I am not a big fan of Burke and Daley, but better them than Ed Whittaker.
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Illigitimati non carborundum | |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25 | Re: Wifi in the Heartland? remember what SBC stands for.....
Satan's B@stard Children
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»www.tricitybroadband.com | |
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teambnet
Team B Group
Premium
join:2003-05-06
Chicago, IL
1 edit | Quit the HI bashing- and make a fact based, data-supported argument. After all the headline on above the fold in both dailies is a more compelling argument regarding municipal enterprise than any I've seen from either side of the muni i debate.
If Chicago can't break even running a basic necessity like transportation how the hell are they gonna even manage to break even on a luxury frill like wifi?
Also what's the basis for the allegation that business as usual would favor a Texas based corporation that contribued zero dollars in the last three municipal elections?
If anything a city sanctioned and privately run operation is far more likely to be subject to 121 LaSalle's business-as-usual.
Note: my early edition of the Trib had the CTA hearing as the lead. I just noticed that the Lefkow murder break displaced it in the city final edition. | |
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jsinaiko
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Wifi in the Heartland? Why should anyone quit the HI bashing? They deserve to be bashed. They are a bunch of right-wing flacks who certainly don't have my interests at heart.
Your questions make no sense in the context of this discussion. Name ONE city that breaks even of public transport. ONE. Anywhere in the world.
100% of public transport systems are heavily subsidised. Right, that's 100%. None of them break even. So please check your facts before you spout. Anyhow, what does public trans and the CTA have to do with muni wifi? Buses and wifi are as similar as airplanes and telegraphs. | |
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teambnet
Team B Group
Premium
join:2003-05-06
Chicago, IL
| Re: Wifi in the Heartland? See I've disagreed with HI on LOTS of things but- unlike most left leaning municipal issue think tanks (read: academia)- they end up producing copious amounts of data to support their assertions; so I'm inclined to give their positions a fair look. All you seem to have is ad hominem? And by the way:failure to hold forth in agreement with the ideals of your Roman Catholic Socalist homeland is not evidence.
The fact that that municipal transportation systems don't make money is EXACTLY the point: government isn't designed to run a networked point-to-point enterprise [if you'd like the finer points to this assertion I'll be happy to expound in detail via email but essentially it boils down to this: goverment was designed to handle consistent descrete needs- roads, telephones, anything piped from a limited source don't fit this definition since these infrastructures are ALWAYS in flux].
All this project seems to do is, like the CTA, create a system that will artifically stimulate demand by artifically lowering the supply cost at what will likely be taxpayer expense (this is Chicago, after all, where EVERY endeavor ends up a net liability to the treasury). Now you don't sound like a supply sider but perhaps I'm wrong.
And make a reasoned argument this time, will ya? | |
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jsinaiko
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Wifi in the Heartland? Why should muni wifi make money? Do the police turn a profit? Trash collection? Firefighters? Streets and san. If the people of Chicago feel that muni wifi is bad they can vote the folks who passed it out of office. Government is no more or less than the VOTERS (as opposed to you or corporate vested interests)want it to be.
And where are HI's facts? All Bast says is that it will "stifle" innovation. That's a fact?
There's a reasoned argument. Where's your? | |
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join:2003-03-13
Montreal, QC
·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Comcast
1 edit | Don't even THINK about trying to compare utility/Muni access to something like 'public' transport.
How is the hiway/roadway subsidy doing in the United States? When was that last time that broke even? Federal Government spent 150 billion on highways last year. 50 Billion on airports. Neither of those 2 break even AT ALL.
Muni subsidies are tiny compared to these, and even have the ability to mostly break-even in certain scenarios.
-- Chex | |
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teambnet
Team B Group
Premium
join:2003-05-06
Chicago, IL
| Re: Wifi in the Heartland? As for the eprairie posting... well if Kbode is Ken Bode then you have the epitome of East Coast elitist media liberalism. Combine that with a Master of Bulls**t Approaches teacher who espouses that TQM/Sigma Something statist corporate conformist crap and you have some real intellectual weight- a business academe who couldn't hack it in the big leagues and a journalist- wow. There's a reason why UofC is on the Nobel committees' speed dial and not NU- those guys are just two of them.
As for my comparison with public transit not being valid, I would assert that they are the EXACT same parallel-
1) you have largely private concerns travelling point-to-point on a public way or device (recall I was talking about public transportation NOT the roads)
2) an infrastructure that is subject to compulsory obsolescence and depreciation [regarding the eprairie post: Ameritech's escalating bid for the city network was to capture the market not the infrastructure- also they were looking to physically piggy back onto the city system for their own capital improvements on the north and northwest side and pocket the savings from a full price ICC rate hike- funny how SBC didn't think much of it last year when Daley was pimping every piece of city infrastructure to the highest bidder: SBC didn't even bother to respond)
3) is largely valued under relative criteria- much of it being of a purely political skew
4) is built with static permanence into a dynamic environment
5) considering there are extant alternatives, both commercial and public (think: library wifi program- something I am all for), it is not a pure necessity
Point 4 is even more true when you are talking about the kind of deployment spec'd in Burke's proposal: over 10,000 transmission points using a first or second generation technology! WTF!!! I'm all for early adoption (got my Treo 650 GSM to prove it) but I did it on my own dime and, with a wonderful 1:1 tech-to-CPE ratio, my problems are easily solved. Unless this is a going to be staffed by CityYear (or whatever VISTA is called these days) this will end up being the US postal service from a HR standpoint alone. | |
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jsinaiko
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Chicago, IL | Re: Wifi in the Heartland? What planet are you on?  | |
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teambnet
Team B Group
Premium
join:2003-05-06
Chicago, IL | Re: Wifi in the Heartland? Exactly the comment from some one who is conceptually stunted. I don't see you refuting my points: municipal wifi on the scale the city council is talking about is totally unworkable. | |
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jimbo2150
join:2004-05-10
Youngstown, OH
| Show-down Many telco/cable cos arent providing the services they are promising (or working of future services that they are promising). So how can they 'compete' anyway? Most are complaining about unfair competition.
I would like to see on of these wi-fi or fiber munis get going good, force the broadband companies off thier bed-sore riddled arses and actually start competing again.
I will laugh when one of these networks actually provide good competition for phone/cable cos, then who will be complaining?
I think these muni internets will not only provide us with a means of "choosing" between more than one or two dominating providers (while leaving others in the dust with high-priced satalite connections or nothing but old 56k available), it will also push for faster next-gen deployment. | |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
1 edit | Home rule Chicago is a "home rule" municipal entity, and it routinely farts in the general direction of Springfield. Just because Chicago passes municipal ordinances which protect it's home-rule position on something like this doesn't mean it will ever actually happen.
At $20/mo this is a little spendy for consumer WiFi considering most of the city now has cable and DSL HSI available.
Don't worry about ol' Ed Burke. He learned much from his old crony, the other, "faster" Ed who now indirectly runs Cicero...and is probably stalling until he can put together a private contractor who will get every penny of that $18.5 million. | |
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jsinaiko
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Home rule I think they just kicked the other Fast Eddie out of Cicero. Of course he has many, many lives. A law partner of his once, uh, "helped" me with a moving violation in the early 80s. 
I like the idea of muni wifi. It's like going to the Stardust when in Vegas - at least you are giving your money to the Chicago dudes and not some auslander! | |
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58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Home rule said by jsinaiko  :I think they just kicked the other Fast Eddie out of Cicero. Of course he has many, many lives. A law partner of his once, uh, "helped" me with a moving violation in the early 80s. I like the idea of muni wifi. It's like going to the Stardust when in Vegas - at least you are giving your money to the Chicago dudes and not some auslander! Heh, I always lose at the Stardust. Now I know why.
Muni WiFi is great when it works. It's still pretty much all unlicensed, barely regulated toys though. Under Part 15 you have no recourse if someone does something that takes out your system and that's a hard pill for your financiers to swallow. They like to have something that's a little less fragile to hold when money's involved.
It'll be interesting to watch this though. | |
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jsinaiko
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Home rule I think the Stardust has changed hands since they found those two Spilotro bros. in that cornfield near Crown Point or wherever it was! .
I think you are probably correct about home rule and Burke. More yak than reality. I just hate Joe Bast and his HI minions and try to attack them whenever I can.
I would add that even though His reasons to be against muni are not good, hey, these guys can't even run a truck-leasing scheme! They can't even run a CROOKED truck leasing scheme without getting nabbed by the feds. I figure the hotspots may end up being pretty chilly!
That said, I've had the chance to deal with Chris O'Brien, the CTO for the city a couple of times, and he's a smart, honest, forward thinking guy. | |
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Windy City Wi-Fi