Why Are Wireless Users Paying More, Getting Less?Carriers trying desperately to keep profit party going in face of openness... ( old news - 06:23PM Monday Sep 22 2008) tags: competition · business · wireless · net-neutralityIt's looking to be an interesting week in wireless broadband, with Verizon ditching contracts (sort of), T-Mobile launching the first Android OS phone, and Sprint finally taking the wraps off of their mobile WiMax service, Xohm. With the excitement over wireless connectivity heating up, Business Week proclaims that wireless carriers are struggling with the demand for bandwidth. Odd, given that just last week, AT&T admitted that iPhone bandwidth usage was considerably less than what they prepared for. GigaOM's Stacey Higginbotham correctly hits upon the reason wireless prices remain high and your choices remain limited, as carriers lament the state of network capacity: The real reason carriers are limiting services and charging more is to maintain control of what people can do on their networks. Carriers, especially in the U.S., are trying to avoid becoming dumb pipes. Efforts such as limiting P2P on wireless networks and capping data use at 5 GB per month are attempts to keep the barn door shut before the horses run out. It’s too late for broadband access through DSL or cable, but a variety of factors, from limited spectrum to the early nature of 3G, means wireless broadband could stay under carrier control for years to come. Carriers whose record profits are thanks to the fact they can charge forty cents to transmit a 140 byte file aren't going to go gently into that dark, open access, neutral network night. Expect the same bandwidth capacity scare stories we've seen from terrestrial operators to dominate the wireless sector -- as the idea of fabricated scarcity helps justify draconian policies and high prices. How much are you paying for wireless broadband (usually with a 5GB cap) from your mobile phone operator? Do you think you're getting your money's worth?
Related:- What happened to Verizon's Open Access?
- Skype Gripes About Closed Wireless Networks
- Verizon's Open Development Initiative? So Far It's A Joke
- Gimped Skype release, AT&T TOS Changes Annoy Advocates
- AT&T Issues Statement On Crippled Slingbox App
- Verizon's New Wireless Pricing Is An Insult
- Wireless Carriers Oppose Neutrality Rules
- Skype Wants Telcos 'To Get Out Of The Way'
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dr3yec
join:2002-12-19
00000 | Re: LOL WUT 5g for $40 - $70? Never! This boys mom didn't raise a fool. | |
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs: | I seriously do NOT get why people whine, bitch, and moan about a lack of unlimited cell phone data plans, when T-Mobile offers (and has offered for years) an UNLIMITED data plan for $20/mo. Stop complaining and switch if it means that much to you. | |
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MrMaster
What If
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Austin, TX
clubs: | Re: LOL WUT 1.T-mobile is NOT everywhere
2. They are JUST rolling out 3G. How many cities? 2 right now?
3.I always thought VZW had the worst selection of phones. I am definitely wrong. T-Mobile has a terrible selection. | |
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
 ·T-Mobile US
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: LOL WUT said by MrMaster  :1.T-mobile is NOT everywhere They're where 95% of the population's at. Cities.
2. They are JUST rolling out 3G. How many cities? 2 right now? Fair nuff. That's going to change in a couple weeks when the new HTC/Google Android phone gets released...
3.I always thought VZW had the worst selection of phones. I am definitely wrong. T-Mobile has a terrible selection. GSM much? eBay and Amazon allow you to purchase better phones than any of the cell phone companies has because you can buy practically any GSM phone on the planet and just switch out the SIM Card. Hong Kong and Europe ftw!
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
| | | | | flyingjoey
join:2005-11-07
Jersey City, NJ | Re: LOL WUT I happened to have tried T-Mobile's wireless internet... one problem I did find... connecting at 19.9 baud wasn't my idea of high speed. | |
| | | | | | dfxmatt
join:2007-08-21
Evanston, IL
| Re: LOL WUT tmobile is doing pretty well, in all honesty.
It's noticably faster than dialup and easy to host the connection with software such as joikuspot so you could have a mobile laptop with internet access.
I don't know what you're talking, I'd say the speed is just about 4x dialup right now. | |
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Duramax08
Oh rly?
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX
·Clearwire Wireless
 ·Juno Express
| Re: LOL WUT I tried that with my razr and I got dial up speed. Then I found out it was not EDGE. So I went and got a blackberry and signed up for the phone as modem for $20 a month, And I got worst speeds then the razr and I was on the EDGE network. Long story short, I returned the blackberry and waiting for my refund to come in the mail. | |
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blala
@direcpc.com | not anymore enjoy your new t mobile 1gb cap | |
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BIGMIKE
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA
| US Broadband Speeds A Joke
Group Calls For Faster U.S. Broadband Speeds
The high-speed Internet advocacy Web site, Speed Matters, has just released a report on the average Internet connection speeds by U.S. state. If you live in Rhode Island (6,769 Kbps), Delaware (6,685 Kbps), New Jersey (5,825 Kbps), Virginia (5,033 Kbps), or Massachusetts (4,564 Kbps), you can take pride that your state has one of the fastest average Internet downstream connection speeds in the U.S. »www.hothardware.com/News/Group-C···-Speeds/ | |
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Qoiz
join:2005-06-26 | sukk i dont have a unwired service and probably never will but I would want at least 20 gb if I was to use it as my primary connection. | |
| | EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Re: sukk The telcos don't want you to use wireless as your primary connection, though- they'd much rather you buy a DSL (or U-Verse, FiOS for some) line from them along with your wireless service- and throw in a landline while you're at it! | |
| | | lvlorpheus
join:2008-02-17
Eureka Springs, AR | Re: sukk let me get this straight. they don't want me to use wireless, but they don't want to extend their wired network.
do they ever want the rest of use to have anything other than 14.4 dial-up. | |
| amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| one friend One guy I know just got a USB data card from Alltel for home use because he didn't want the local telco DSL service that was basically forcing a phone line along with it... There is no AT&T where he is, only the local company.
So, in this case, the data card is cheaper and from what I've heard, Alltel has no 5GB cap!
Granted, you're at the mercy of a wireless network, but for a casual internet user, it shouldn't matter too much.
Says it's slow from time to time, but that he feels good about the choice.
Now, if we can verify that Alltel has no cap, that'd be nice. Even if they don't right now, who wants to bet that they do in the near future  | |
| | | | | lvlorpheus
join:2008-02-17
Eureka Springs, AR | Re: one friend Only when my new 2 year contract runs out. | |
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LordFlux
join:2005-04-20
Warner Robins, GA
·Cox HSI
·Alltel Axess
| said by amungus :Now, if we can verify that Alltel has no cap, that'd be nice. Even if they don't right now, who wants to bet that they do in the near future My parents finally got BellSouth/AT&T DSL a couple of weeks ago, but before that they used Alltel's Axcess service. I was still living at home up until last November, so I had a chance to use it. Ping times were good when our area first got the service, but things started slowing down after awhile. On average, I got around 1.2Mbit/sec download speeds.
Had my XBox360 and PS3 hooked up to the CradlePoint router we used with the data card and I downloaded gigs and gigs worth of demos and games. Never heard a peep from Alltel. When we first signed up for the service, we asked if there was a cap -- they said that there was not. Like you said, though, that'll probably change. | |
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old school in la
@cox.net
| Like mine I have had a Verizon evdo card for a year, and use it for my primary connection when traveling (sometimes weeks at the time) and when hanging in coffee shops etc. when not, and for backup to cable in my home office. I don't worry about usage, and have never exceeded 5 gigs. I do email, remote access, and web access. You tube etc. is for dummies who can't read. If I want to watch a movie, I play a BD on my 60" HD set. If I want to listen to music, I buy it and rip it. When you exclude all that crap, 5 gigs goes a long way. The service is very near perfect for me, and well worth the cost to set me free from the office. | |
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damonlab
Premium
join:2001-05-02
Detroit, MI
clubs:
| Re: Like mine Just because 5 gigs / month works for you it does not mean that it works for everybody else.
Some people get their netflix movie downloads through their Internet connection. Some people listen to their satellite XM radio through their Internet connection. Some people use VPN to remote into work through their Internet connection. Some people want to do all of the above plus more.
I'm glad 5 gigs/ month suits your needs. You seem like a happy consumer and I'm sure your ISP is more than willing to take as much money from you for 5GB as they can possibly get. Just realize that there are people that want to use this service with far different needs/expectations than you. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| Providers will fight to charge/service vs. dumb pipe For the following reasons:
1. Limited capacity (how many users can use how much spectrum in any given area)
2. With the exception of data cards, devices have been pretty much walled gardens. Blackberry data goes through Blackberry servers, etc.
3. PDA users end up paying more than regular wireless data phones.
4. Carriers can make money from both consumer and service provider for their walled garden app. Since they're making money at both ends... why would they stop.
AT&T's 3G is already bandwidth starved, as they've put voice + data on a small 5MHz of spectrum.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
| | keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA | Re: Providers will fight to charge/service vs. dumb pipe Per call or shared?
Regardless, if you think about it, a 6mhz channel is used for 30Mbps downstream on docsis 1.1 in cable.
Just to put things in perspective. | |
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jsz0
join:2008-01-23
Jewett City, CT
·Comcast
| It's called capitalism If a company can deliver a product or service that is in high demand they are able to carefully walk the edge of the razor by limiting or crippling it in certain ways to increase profit margins or, in some cases, make a higher end option more attractive. As long as consumers continue to buy the products and services the company will continue to test the limits. Eventually there comes a point where they have pushed too hard and they either have to compromise with the consumers or attempt to leverage their existing marketshare as a means to limit competition. The competition will be willing to give the consumer more in an attempt to build a market share which they can, someday, begin to harvest for higher profits with the same methods.
This is pretty much exactly how capitalism is supposed to work. The consumer ultimately has the choice of what product/service to buy -- or the choice to buy no product or service at all from any company. The consumer is represented by their dollars. If they continue to spend, they will continue to get pushed until a temporary happy medium is found. | |
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benc
Premium
join:2007-06-17
Glen Carbon, IL
·Charter Pipeline
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
·Callcentric
·AT&T Midwest
| Not a dumb pipe? When will they figure out that's exactly what people want.
I want to be able to connect any device, to any network, and do whatever I want. Well, within real technical constraints of course. Like, I know you can't have a CDMA device on a GSM network, and vice versa.
But, if there was unlimited data transfer, or even only 250GB for $80 via wireless, it might be worth it.
I don't own a laptop. I don't see a point, since if I wanted one I'd want mobile phone Internet to make it truly portable. But, 5GB is really a joke.
Here's an idea:
$20/mo. - 1GB
$30/mo. - 5GB
$40/mo. - 25GB
$80/mo. - Unlimited
Or how about $.05/GB until the bill is $80, and then it costs nothing extra? | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Not a dumb pipe? said by benc :Here's an idea: $20/mo. - 1GB $30/mo. - 5GB $40/mo. - 25GB $80/mo. - Unlimited Or how about $.05/GB until the bill is $80, and then it costs nothing extra? Problem is that none of them want an unlimited amount.
Most 'real' users would just pick $80/month for unlimited and run BT whatever app they want.
Charging $0.05/GB is wayy too cheap. For it to reach $80, it would be 1600GB. Companies already charge $0.01/KB for PPU.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by benc :When will they figure out that's exactly what people want. I want to be able to connect any device, to any network, and do whatever I want. Well, within real technical constraints of course. Like, I know you can't have a CDMA device on a GSM network, and vice versa. But, if there was unlimited data transfer, or even only 250GB for $80 via wireless, it might be worth it. I don't own a laptop. I don't see a point, since if I wanted one I'd want mobile phone Internet to make it truly portable. But, 5GB is really a joke. Here's an idea: $20/mo. - 1GB $30/mo. - 5GB $40/mo. - 25GB $80/mo. - Unlimited Or how about $.05/GB until the bill is $80, and then it costs nothing extra? HAHA! Verizon cahrges 25¢ per MB. That's $256 per GB. 5¢ per GB overage? In my wet dreams. | |
|
Chrono
@davenport.edu
| need more bandwith 5GB too little once again, being a victim of no cable or DSL, I have to go with Wireless. I have a sprint compass 579 and an EVDO router. It works great where I live dont get me wrong, but sharing a network with 3 computers, a laptop, a Playstation 3, Xbox 360, and Wii kinda sucks up the bandwith like crazy. I actually have a Wildblue ISP just so I can get 14GB of extra bandwith a month for 70$
What cellular broadband should go is raise the cap to at most 20GB a month [I could live with that] or do a rollover bandwith so more could be used the next month
Those are just my ideas... | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: need more bandwith 5GB too little said by Chrono :
once again, being a victim of no cable or DSL, I have to go with Wireless. I have a sprint compass 579 and an EVDO router. It works great where I live dont get me wrong, but sharing a network with 3 computers, a laptop, a Playstation 3, Xbox 360, and Wii kinda sucks up the bandwith like crazy. I actually have a Wildblue ISP just so I can get 14GB of extra bandwith a month for 70$
What cellular broadband should go is raise the cap to at most 20GB a month [I could live with that] or do a rollover bandwith so more could be used the next month
Those are just my ideas...
If the wireless compnaies would have their cap at at least 15 GB they would actually win over many satelite customers. | |
| 
TCub
Premium
join:2008-09-03
Olmsted Falls, OH
clubs:
·Cox HSI
| Include tethering? People with unlimited data plans like with what I had with Verizon for $100 a month with my Moto Q and like what I have now for the same price (ish) with AT&T and my iPhone 3G, does tethering really work that good? And in that case is unlimited truly unlimited? I could have sworn with VZW "Unlimited" means up to 5GB per month or something like that.
--
one man's burden playing on my mind
one man's burden got me just in time | |
| | k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
| Re: Include tethering? said by TCub :People with unlimited data plans like with what I had with Verizon for $100 a month with my Moto Q and like what I have now for the same price (ish) with AT&T and my iPhone 3G, does tethering really work that good? And in that case is unlimited truly unlimited? I could have sworn with VZW "Unlimited" means up to 5GB per month or something like that. I'm surprised that consumers don't wake up and file class action lawsuits. I know the day AT&T calls me up and tells me I went over on my "unlimited" data plan will be the day I start calling lawyers, start websites, contact the eff, start calling congressman. No joke, I pay for unlimited, it WILL be unlimited, otherwise its false advertising. Plain and simple, if you offer something as unlimited and limit it, it is illegal. TOS does not override federal law. But comeon, verizon is advertising "unlimited" 5GB data plans, duh! You wouldn't even need a lawyer to win that court case:
Evidence:
1) Screen caption of Verzion's plan that states unlimited
2) Phone call from verzion stating you are going over the unlimited plan
I could start an ISP and put in the TOS saying that each time you surf you have to stand on your head else you have to pay a fine of $1000. That wouldn't hold up in any court in the US. Policy does not mean law (as said by someone on DSLR).
As of right now there are no plans to tether the iPhone. Why not? They are probably trying to figure out a monthly $$ they can charge and an amount the market will bare.
And regarding tethering; that is the second biggest scam in the telcom industry since text messaging. Internet Connection Sharing is built into Winodws Mobile 6+ which basically allows the phone to act as a gateway router, in turn allows you to tether without your cell phone company tracking *how much* AND *having the ability to see that you tether*. Whops. Basically it just forwards packets it gets to the internet and relays them back. Am I allowed to say that?
People, if you purchase an unlimited package, you have unlimited use to the service UNLESS its spelled out when you are ordering the service. Like AT&T's DSL service, they put "Up to Xmbps" (now they are putting ranges) but they don't put "You will get 6mbps with this package!". Stuffing a 5GB limit in the TOS does not entitle providers to put a limit on it. And if all people want to do is whine and moan and not take action, guess what? Enjoy your 5GB limits  .
I'm not saying start an uprising, but if you get enough people to contact their congressmen (not by email or snail mail, but by phone) they will listen. | |
| | | EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Re: Include tethering? Verizon HAS been sued for using Unlimited in their advertising. That's why they don't anymore. (If they do, call someone up) | |
| | | | k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
| Re: Include tethering? said by EPS :Verizon HAS been sued for using Unlimited in their advertising. That's why they don't anymore. (If they do, call someone up) I just looked up PDA plans:
quote:
Unlimited Data Usage
Monthly Allowance Monthly Access Per-Minute
$49.99 $0.25 Unlimited Data Usage within NationalAccess or BroadbandAccess service area
View All
Thats a new one. Per minute use of PDA internet.
But yeah their "wireless broadband access" is only 5GB or 50MB now. What a joke. But yeah I'm pretty sure most other providers still offer an unlimited package for that. | |
| | | | | | | k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
| Re: Include tethering? said by TCub :When the iPhone 3G first came out there was an app in the apps store that was free that allowed you to tether your iphone! Though AT&T cought wind of it and told Apple to remove it from the app store...Im sure if you wanted to you could jailbreak your iphone and still do it but it was once possible, and recently too. I never said it wasn't possible, its just against their TOS to tether without a "proper plan". And although it is harder to detect on Windows Mobile phones (almost next to impossible, unless you were to do something like deep packet inspection...which I'm sure if it comes to that all they have to do is look at your 100GB use for that month and figure it out pretty quickly), I'm sure there is something buried deep in the iphone OS to where they can distinguish a tether packet vs an iphone packet. Just speculation and NO proof whatsoever, but it would make sense if in the deal making process AT&T and Apple came up with some sort of agreement to put in something in the OS to make sure they can track if someone tethers. And if they didn't they would be very stupid, so tether on!
Again, tether is the second biggest scam via the telecom providers. "Pay $30-60/month and you can get unlimited tethering that we can't track!" | |
| nnaarrnn
join:2004-09-30
Nitro, WV
·Vonage
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Suddenlink
| Sprint We have Sprint data cards that we use as failovers for our T-1 customers. I know some of them have run multiple branch office remote desktop sessions over them while a telephone pole was down for 2 days, and we didnt receive any overage charges. The devices that we have them in that do the failover use the Sprint data cards to load balance off the Ts when traffic is heavy as well. I can say that the $60/month each of those cards cost us, they have been worth every penny of the $80/month we charge our customers for the failover service. Our lack of overage charges may be due to that it's a business account with multiple data cards and 18 phone lines, but I dont know. I dont do the paperwork. | |
| 
NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| It's a little harder to do on wireless networks. Cable and Telco network access goes to central offices. There are dozens in every city so they can all concentrate traffic there and pick it up on large circuits.
Cell Towers all go back to a central switch and one switch can cover thousands of square miles. So we'd have to have backhauls in excess of DS3 to bring super high speeds in even Urban areas. This will be a major challenge to LTE, where it's possible that offloading to the internet will actually happen at the tower rather than pulling it back to the switch.
--
Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net | |
| | tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY | that reminds me... I'm going to put up a bicycle store right across from a gas station...
To add to the old addage, it's your choice... $5+ a gallon or a bicycle! | |
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betterthendialup
@myvzw.com
| Cap doesn't bother me, it's the lacking speed I tried Verizon a couple of years ago when they first brought out Broadband. They convinced me that National Access was faster then dial up. Well, that was wrong. So I waited two years and tried again when they were offering broad band in my area (rural/woods/foothills). I tried it and they said "typical speeds" would be 600kbps-1.2mbps. Well I am on and the speed and reliability are acceptable. But when it went down twice and I called they techies started putting me thought these shenanigans about removing software and reinstalling, etc. much like dial up would do in the nineties. That was a negative to me. Then the cap... Well I really do not do enough to worry about the 5gb cap. I could be higher just for comfort but I use about half the allocation. But the speed is disappointing. I rarely get above 600bps with 130bps on the up side. I have gotten higher but that was three months ago when I first got it. The only thing that makes it tolerable is that it is portable at least somewhat. I was able to get on to the National Access at the beach in a remote location of the California coast and look up bird species. With the beach only feet away. I pay $60 per month but while using 2.5gb of bandwidth. I feel that $40 would be a fairer price. I know they may have to recover costs on the modem, but I will be looking for something else in Two years unless they show up with more for less. | |
| elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | "Record Profits" ? What's wrong with that? | |
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LOL WUT
