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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: Its my understanding.... Nonetheless, government intervention into private business is another step towards socialism. Which, as everyone knows, is simply a hop and a skip from satanism and schizophrenia! | |
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spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
 ·SureWest Internet
·FrontierNet Intern..
| said by Karl Bode  :Nonetheless, government intervention into private business is another step towards socialism. Which, as everyone knows, is simply a hop and a skip from satanism and schizophrenia! Karl, you forgot "and a jump from racism"!
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The weekend is here, grab a can of beer! | |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| Re: Its my understanding.... said by spewak :Karl, you forgot "and a jump from racism"! As a professional courtesy, Karl is leaving that to Maureen Dowd.
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The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master.
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| | Necronomikro
join:2005-09-01
| said by baineschile :The rates actually havent lowered. But, services have gone up with no rate increase. Maybe half dozen of one, 6 of the other. Nonetheless, government intervention into private business is another step towards socialism. I cant wait until cities build their own towers for cell service. Coops are bad?
Even if coops were a step towards 'socialism', what is wrong with socialism? | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by baineschile :The rates actually havent lowered. But, services have gone up with no rate increase. Maybe half dozen of one, 6 of the other. Nonetheless, government intervention into private business is another step towards socialism. I cant wait until cities build their own towers for cell service. Does everything have to be about something? Nothing is about socialism. God I wish you people would quit talking about socialism. Im not sure who is worse the "socialism is coming" conspiracy theorists or the "Bush was behind 9-11" conspiracy theorists
I guess the US postal service delivering packages is interferring with private business too. | |
| | | | | | | wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH
| Re: Its my understanding.... I don't have very many reasons to go to the DMV, because my inefficient government has put the whole process online. Click click click, and my tag renewal comes in the mail.
If you do not like socialism, then I expect you to set a good example, and never call the police, or fire department. I expect you to generate your own electricity, and water. I expect that you should not drive on the socialized roads and sidewalks.
Unfortunately, socialism is everywhere. But a lot of people pretend that it isn't, while enjoying all of the comforts that it brings.
cw | |
| | | | | phantom6294
join:2002-02-27
Abingdon, MD
 ·Comcast
| Re: Its my understanding.... said by wentlanc :If you do not like socialism, then I expect you to set a good example, and never call the police, or fire department. I expect you to generate your own electricity, and water. I expect that you should not drive on the socialized roads and sidewalks. Unfortunately, socialism is everywhere. But a lot of people pretend that it isn't, while enjoying all of the comforts that it brings. What does anything you just said, have to do with socialism??? Seriously... what the hell do police, fire department, electricity, water, roads and sidewalks have to do with socialism??????
Not a damn thing.
Socialism:
Dictionay.com: "a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole."
Wikipedia: "various theories of economic organisation advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterised by equal access to resources for all individuals with an egalitarian method of compensation."
Merriam Webster (second definition): " a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state"
Just how the hell do you people go from a system where the means of production are owned/controller by the public/the worker/the state is socialism to a fantasy world where government provided services such as police, fire department, and roads and sidewalks, and (often) regulated monopolies provide electricity and water is socialism?
Seriously??? What drug are you taking that allows you to make that mental leap?
Police, fire departments, road and sidewalks is a government function that has nothing to do with capitalism versus socialism which are, to roughly boil them down, theories of economic systems.
Good grief people. | |
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ual
@bellsouth.net
| Re: Its my understanding.... Didn't you just prove his point? Water, electricity, police, and fire departments are all public ownership of a means of production and allocation of resources in many places. That just perfectly matched one of your definitions of socialism that you posted.
If the fire department didn't exist, and you had to pay a private company to be 'on call' for you if a fire breaks out (similar to the private home security companies that exist now) that would be private ownership eg capitalism. The fact the state controls it, that the fire department is owned by the public in order to provide a low cost solution to the public is the idea socialism works on.
If the government can provide faster, and cheaper internet than private business why in the world would I be against it? Companies are free to earn a profit at the expense of the community if they can get away with it, but there shouldn't be anything that says that community can't get together and come up with a lower cost, better, option to offer the community. If it turns out their option isn't better, or lower cost, people would still be free to go to the private company if they want to for their internet service. | |
| | | | | | | dishrich
join:2006-05-12
Springfield, IL
3 edits | Re: Its my understanding.... said by ual :
If the fire department didn't exist, and you had to pay a private company to be 'on call' for you if a fire breaks out (similar to the private home security companies that exist now) that would be private ownership eg capitalism. Actually in some rural areas around here, people do have to PAY for fire protection. If they do NOT pay & there is a fire on said property, they will respond, but will NOT do anything to fight the fire, unless someone's life is at stake - then ONLY enough to rescue the person(s).
I DO agree with the rest of what you said - & for the record, our electricity & water are both municipal. Since we probably pay some of the lowest electic rates in the state (if not the US) then I guess WE are getting socialized electric & water as well. I guess I'll just have to suffer paying our LOW rates, knowing that's it "socialized" - now if we could only get our "socialized" broadband, so I could tell comcrap to f#%k off, since I have NO other wired alternatives here...  | |
| | | | | | | | vp71inet
join:2005-05-12
Englishtown, NJ | Re: Its my understanding.... Hey man, you just gave me a good laugh ... succint and to the point ... | |
| | | | | | wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH
| Are you really that shortsighted, and have such a lack of understanding as to what socialism really means?
Lets go a little further down your dictionary.com page...
Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
Our local government organizes roads, fire and police services, which, from your own definition from wikipedia, are paid for in an egalitarian method of compensation. For reference, egalitarian means: asserting, resulting from, or characterized by belief in the equality of all people, esp. in political, economic, or social life.
So while the systems in it's entirety is not fully socialized, a LOT of the individual components of the system are based purely on a socialist model.
The drug that I'm on that permits me to make this leap is called common sense. Perhaps you, and many other should try it. It's addicting!
cw | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: Its my understanding.... Paved roads can be part of the authority of HOAs, otherwise its widened animal and native american trail mud roads. Artery roads are tolled, with electronic collection. | |
| | | | | SilentMan
join:2002-07-15
New York, NY
| said by wentlanc :: : : If you do not like socialism, then I expect you to set a good example, and never call the police, or fire department. I expect you to generate your own electricity, and water. I expect that you should not drive on the socialized roads and sidewalks. He should also pay for his kids education, if he has any; shouldn't get subsidized students loans, no Pell grants, no work-study, no sanitation service to collect his garbage, should decline Medicare when or if he's eligible, etc. in other words, he should pay for everything in his life!  | |
| | | | | | | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| said by baineschile :... but, without significant competition (and the government can undercut any private enterprise), quality of service will degrade rapidly. .... oh, tru dat! why look at the state of broadband in the U.S. - virtually no competition, resulting in high rates, poor customer service, etc.
except of course where municipalities offer fiber and the incumbents have frozen prices.....oh, wait that's govt socialism, so it's not really competition...those price freezes must be a mirage, or maybe Cox doesn't know there's socialism going on. Everybody knows govt doesn't compete or create jobs - I myself don't have a job, as I am employed by the govt; fortunately, I get paid for my non-job, so everything's cool. | |
| | Gruesome
join:2007-10-18
Milton, ON | Next thing the you know They'll wan to build the roads we drive on ....commies | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Its my understanding.... said by Gruesome :Next thing the you know They'll wan to build the roads we drive on ....commies Or put out our fires. The nerve!
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"What is conservatism? Is it not adherence to the old and tried, against the new and untried?" - Abraham Lincoln | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Its my understanding.... said by mrkevin :said by Matt :said by Gruesome :Next thing the you know They'll wan to build the roads we drive on ....commies Or put out our fires. The nerve! Or take over the banking system and car manufacturers. LOL, seriously? 
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"What is conservatism? Is it not adherence to the old and tried, against the new and untried?" - Abraham Lincoln | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Its my understanding.... said by mrkevin :said by Matt :LOL, seriously? No...That hasn't happened.  When someone owns 51% of a company, they own it right? Prosecution rests it's case. Helping a single company in an industry isn't taking over of that entire system. So by helping GM in exchange for ownership (would you rather they have just handed the money over with no strings attached, or perhaps let the company go bankrupt and put tens of thousands out of work?) is taking over the auto industry?
And psst, Bush signed the $700 billion TARP program and all that money has to be paid back. Excepting AIG, the governement doesn't own any part of the banking system either.
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"What is conservatism? Is it not adherence to the old and tried, against the new and untried?" - Abraham Lincoln | |
| | | | | | | | Gruesome
join:2007-10-18
Milton, ON | Re: Its my understanding.... They should have let the whole thing collapse, someone would have filled the void , after all the economy or consumers still need x amount of cars every year and now we've probably just delayed the inevitable | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Its my understanding.... said by Gruesome :They should have let the whole thing collapse, someone would have filled the void , after all the economy or consumers still need x amount of cars every year and now we've probably just delayed the inevitable Some people (especially the German Financial Industry) agree with you. I don't feel that was the best course of action, as it would have cost us much more in the long run due to loss of benefits, retirement packages, and unemployment compensation. But there is merit to your line of thinking without a doubt.
I mainly take issue with the nonsense about the Government taking over of the private sector. That's an absurd statement that has no basis in reality, unless Fox News is all the reality you experience.
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"What is conservatism? Is it not adherence to the old and tried, against the new and untried?" - Abraham Lincoln | |
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hahaha
@sbcglobal.net | Re: Its my understanding.... "...unless Fox News is all the reality you experience."
I tried getting my reality experience from nyt, abc, nbc, cbs and ap but they don't report news/stories. they make up stories. So Fox News is the only real news. | |
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tphillips
Premium
join:2009-02-04
Apopka, FL
| said by Gruesome :They should have let the whole thing collapse, someone would have filled the void , after all the economy or consumers still need x amount of cars every year and now we've probably just delayed the inevitable Yea, all those fine Canadian car makers. | |
| | | | | | | | | | Gruesome
join:2007-10-18
Milton, ON
·Cogeco Cable
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Its my understanding.... said by tphillips :said by Gruesome :They should have let the whole thing collapse, someone would have filled the void , after all the economy or consumers still need x amount of cars every year and now we've probably just delayed the inevitable Yea, all those fine Canadian car makers. We did the same stupid thing, bailed out GM and Chrysler in Canada, which by the way really had to suck for a company that had figured things out a bit , like Ford | |
| | | | | | | | | | Kommie
join:2003-05-13
East Haven, CT
| said by tphillips :said by Gruesome :They should have let the whole thing collapse, someone would have filled the void , after all the economy or consumers still need x amount of cars every year and now we've probably just delayed the inevitable Yea, all those fine Canadian car makers. Opel is now owned by Canadians. They are coming!! With their Socialist Cars!!! Oh No!!! | |
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tphillips
Premium
join:2009-02-04
Apopka, FL
| Re: Its my understanding.... said by mrkevin :I don't think it's right for everyone to pay for holding a loosing company up just to keep a couple of thousand people working...sorry. FYI
Employee Count
GM 244,500
Ford 300,000
Chrysler 80,000
A little more then a couple of thousand | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by mrkevin :If the company I work for decides to let me go is the Fed govt. going to come in and pay them to keep me? No, but they will pay you. In the form of unemployment, healthcare if you go to the emergency room, welfare ... there are any number of social program that the Federal Government will pay for if you are laid off.
The difference? You're not contributing to the GDP.
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"What is conservatism? Is it not adherence to the old and tried, against the new and untried?" - Abraham Lincoln | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA
| said by baineschile :The rates actually havent lowered. But, services have gone up with no rate increase. Maybe half dozen of one, 6 of the other. Nonetheless, government intervention into private business is another step towards socialism. I cant wait until cities build their own towers for cell service. That's not a rate lowering, that's "adding value" to a service. Those are two different things.
Slippery slope much? | |
| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| said by baineschile : Nonetheless, government intervention into private business is another step towards socialism. Isn't banning slavery and serfdom socialism? The slaves were legitimately purchased from duly authorized parties in Africa, serfs signed a contract for perpetual service to the lord. | |
| | WernerSchutz
join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX | And when the gov't bailed out the banks' asses was socialism, too, right ?
The confluence of government power and private business is not socialism, but fascism, btw. | |
| JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
2 edits | Price wins out again. “The bandwidth advantage hasn’t played to our advantage as we hoped it would,” Russell said. “Pricing has been our issue. Cox is cherry-picking our business customers. We have to work hard to maintain relationships, make sure our sales guys are stopping in on the small business customers and asking them what they need. One way we fight [pricing competition] is with contracts – we are able to give customers substantial discounts for [longer-term] contracts.”
I said this a thousand times. It boils down to price and the perceived valaue you are getting for your money. These fiber companies offer a way better internet product and yet if Cox or even ATT and their crappy Uverse internet offer a competive price ,these fiber companies have to fight hard to keep the sub.
I wish them luck but in the price conscious cycle we are in. They are at a disadvantage against ATT and especially Cox since they are private and don't have to worry about their stock price or what some idiot analyst has to say .
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»www.seabee.navy.mil | |
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wow2009soci
@ameritech.net
| Wow! Wow! And it only took '1' post before the word "socialism" came up.
That's pretty good...But expected.
Seriously socialism has been a talking point that's been beaten to death by the Republican zealots for FAR too long. I don't even know if they know the meaning, especially when some of them travel on "socialized" roads and using "socialized" medicare, taking in "socialized" social security payments. We should hold them up to their own standards. Sheesh. | |
| ColonelPanik
join:2007-03-30
Portales, NM
·yucca telecommunic..
·Comcast
| How much is just profit? If the muni FTTH in Louisiana can give the subscriber
50 up and down for less than $60/month and they intend
to keep operating, what is the profit margin at the telco/cable
companies?
I pay $50 for 4 down and 2 up. Over $70 for 10 down and 2 up.
Something is wrong.
There is a guy in Austin TX giving away
computers to poor kids and he cannot get them connected.
»linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/09/t···_26.html
The United States may have (but you know better) the best
broadband in the world. But 50% of us cannot afford it! | |
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ironwalker
World Renowned
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-31
Keansburg, NJ
clubs:
·Optimum Online
| Re: How much is just profit? said by ColonelPanik :If the muni FTTH in Louisiana can give the subscriber 50 up and down for less than $60/month and they intend to keep operating, what is the profit margin at the telco/cable companies? I pay $50 for 4 down and 2 up. Over $70 for 10 down and 2 up. Something is wrong. There is a guy in Austin TX giving away computers to poor kids and he cannot get them connected. » linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/09/t···_26.htmlThe United States may have (but you know better) the best broadband in the world. But 50% of us cannot afford it! As per an earlier in the week article and from Obama himself, we are ranked 15 in the best broadband offerings.
Most likely due to pricing as you mentioned. Not the best though, thats for sure.
I am all for smaller companies comeing in an offering fiber or quadruple play, whatever, the more the merrier to compete against the monopolies. I am always for the lil guy.
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Live Free or Die!
www.sidux.com
www.chronixradio.com
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DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
Metairie, LA
clubs: | No Funny business Cox could not take a loss in order to drive our fiber deployments out of business. We have a law in LA that requires them to have statewide pricing.
So cox has basically written off these areas. | |
| Kommie
join:2003-05-13
East Haven, CT |  Socialism for the WIn
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Who Knew? Home-Rolled Fiber Lowers Cable Rates
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