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Virgin Media Starts Snooping In User Packets
Using deep packet inspection to measure copyright infringement
UK Cable provider Virgin Media says they're experimenting with a new deep packet inspection solution that will snoop into customer packets to determine if they're trading copyrighted files. The trial will cover 40% of the company's customers, though no action will be taken against users (nor will they be informed of the snooping). The CView technology being used is the same gear used by behavioral advertising firm Phorm. With much P2P traffic being encrypted and such gear still not able to detect all P2P details, this could be a wild goose chase -- but it appears the ISP wants to get out ahead of the UK government's effort to turn ISPs into Internet content babysitters.
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33358088 (banned)
join:2008-09-23

33358088 (banned)

Member

and who in canada are they associated too

hrmmmmmmmm

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: and who in canada are they associated too

Nobody that I know of.
33358088 (banned)
join:2008-09-23

33358088 (banned)

Member

Re: and who in canada are they associated too

think bell canada buddy

sbrook
Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa

1 recommendation

sbrook

Mod

Re: and who in canada are they associated too

Actually, they aren't. Virgin Mobile was a joint venture between Virgin Group and Bell Canada (subject to foreign ownership regulations) Bell bought out Virgin Group's interest in Virgin Mobile, but continues to pay for license for the use of the Virgin logo. So, Virgin Group has no say in how Virgin Mobile is run. So, Virgin Media in the UK is NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Virgin Mobile in Canada other than sharing the Virgin logo, and you can be sure that Bell only kept that because it represents a fresh approach that appeals to younger folk. With Bell's own rebranding, they'll probably totally the Virgin brand into Bell in due course.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

1 recommendation

Mr Matt

Member

Taste our Red Herring.

The excuse for deep packet inspection is to protect big corporate interests while in reality that is a Red Herring. Remember the little old lady involved in a car accident, that emergency services could not locate. That was the excuse for including tracking devices in all cell phones. If the government used the same mathematical formula the Airline Industry uses to decide the cost of adding safety equipment versus the number of lives lost with out it, the government would have forgotten cell phone tracking. Pass the cost on to the consumer, why not!

Think you can turn it off. Think again. The fuzz can turn tracking on by remote control if it is not already active. Among other things deep packet inspection gives the incumbent party an opportunity to monitor those who oppose their policies, communications. Remember Tricky Dick Nixon and big brother Bush.
33358088 (banned)
join:2008-09-23

33358088 (banned)

Member

Re: Taste our Red Herring.

funny you mention that a rogers phone a mine started once coming on all time got to point i said f this and smashed it.....

yaright
@rogers.com

yaright

Anon

Re: Taste our Red Herring.

Right. And Will Smith still has a tracker in his pants and is jumping down to floor 16...
33358088 (banned)
join:2008-09-23

33358088 (banned)

Member

Re: Taste our Red Herring.

stilll have the log file bud i keep everything ask BCE about a receipt i just sent them a copy of proving i THEY picked up hardware they have continued to say in effect stole....common tactic to do when a person has other more important things like his application for disability and this is what they did the time before too expect i had and was VERY hurt and had almost died on there actions.

IF I HAD THE MONEY TO SUE damn fraking right i would and id put all the evidence and ALL the phone calls into evidence which actually costs money and SMASH the crap out of them in court and they know it.

THE MORAL is :
IF YOUR STUPID ENOUGH TO EVER TRUST A CORPORATION YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU GET.

sbrook
Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa

sbrook

Mod

Re: Taste our Red Herring.

What has this got to do with smashing your Rogers phone. If it kept turning itself on, it was a defective phone: they can't be turned on remotely.
Expand your moderator at work

karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Moscow, ID

karlmarx

Member

Just encrypt it

Sheesh, I don't think there are any torrent clients that don't offer encryption these days. Sure, they can tell you are using a torrent, but with encryption, they won't know what.

swhx7
Premium Member
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia

swhx7

Premium Member

Re: Just encrypt it

The UK military intelligence services took the unusual step of making a public policy statement - they recommended against the "ISPs as copyright police" push because it would enourage greater use of encryption. This would impair or defeat the ability of the MI to spy on all kinds of internet communications.
albundyhere
join:2000-10-26
New York, NY

albundyhere

Member

Re: Just encrypt it

ahahaha, the irony of your statement makes so much sense, but you have to realize that corporations are way more powerful than any military or government. they own you and the world!
33358088 (banned)
join:2008-09-23

33358088 (banned) to karlmarx

Member

to karlmarx
and just whom are the major torrent clients and there owners YOU GUESSED it partners to the same ISPS that will spy on you, do not think or trust for ONE moment they haven't back doored you all.
haha
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Just encrypt it

The use Transmission. It's free and open-source. It's *nix based (no Windows) but you can pick it apart and see for yourself whether the encryption has a backdoor.

Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium Member
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR

Selenia

Premium Member

Re: Just encrypt it

said by iansltx:

The use Transmission. It's free and open-source. It's *nix based (no Windows) but you can pick it apart and see for yourself whether the encryption has a backdoor.
Pretty good choice. An even better choice is rtorrent. It's free and open source, as well and can run on most any modern flavor of *nix, not just Linux. The interface takes a bit of getting used to for some, but I think it's close to the most efficient I have seen. Real gem of the client is its performance with high speed(100 mbit+) pipes, but it's great all around.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Just encrypt it

Tried using rtorrent, but was a bit hard to set up, whereas Transmission comes installed on anything with GNOME so more people are likely to have it. Also, most folks won't be hitting private trackers on their home computers with 100+ Mbps connections, at least yet. Though I agree, rTorrent is crazy fast when you've got a big enough pipe. As for me, Transmission has no problem maxing out my 22/5 on Comcast

anon34653535
@portraitsoftware.com

anon34653535 to karlmarx

Anon

to karlmarx
Detica media accounts director Dan Klein told ZDNet UK on Thursday that encryption of data would cause major problems for CView. "Encryption of the data packet would defeat us," he said. "We're not going to put the processing power into defeating it."

There's your answer although I should add that it is still possible to DPI encrypted torrents (there is a vunerability during the handshake).
gorehound
join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME

1 recommendation

gorehound

Member

Boycott Hollywood,MPAA, and RIAA

Stop buying any new products from corporate greedbags folks.I f you are hating the shysters do not give them your money.

Buy Used in Local Stores or Online and save your money................and ensure the greedbags get none of yours !!!

OldGrayWolf
join:2007-10-06

1 edit

OldGrayWolf

Member

When will they figure out that times are a changing?

The MPAA and RIAA are loosing profit on me as well. I am one of the older people with money to spend where I choose to. I have gone through the rough times in youth were you live from paycheck to paycheck. I now have excess income to spend.

I got rid of my Time Warner cable service many months ago. I do not miss it at all!

I set up a server for my TV, Movie, and Music needs. The server has the CD and DVD collection that I bought over many years. I can listen or watch them when I please. I can add to the collection in the rare case that the MPAA or RIAA comes out with something I'm willing to pay for. I can watch Hulu or subscribe to Metflix if I want. I can stream the digital-over-the-air TV if I want. Yes, I have the converter box for digital TV.

Companies like Time Warner/Road Runner need to look at a different model for delivering content. If Road Runner offered the TV content that they offer on their Time Warner cable service with some modifications as to availability, viewing times, cost per-view, etc., I might use it. Might, if the price is consistent with value!

Companies like Time Warner/Road Runner don't seem to realize that it needs to work as a Single Company rather than competing with itself.

When the CEO, CFO, COO, or what ever get their heads out of where the sun don't shine then they may have a chance at competing against piracy.

w0g
o.O
join:2001-08-30
Springfield, OR

w0g

Member

who owns our data?

Something is wrong with this. I want to own my data and nobody should look at it or intercept it without my permission.

Bluetacky
@btcentralplus.com

Bluetacky

Anon

Re: who owns our data?

Too true mate, same here with bells on. By what right do they think they can snoop inside the data packets I send? My data is private between me and whoever I am sending them to. If I encrypt those packets, isn't it illegal for anyone except the intended recipient to decrypt them? Or are they above the Law? Are these Laws only for the downtrodden masses to follow?
I can see a certain ISP losing an awful lot of business in the not too distant future! Virgin have their fingers in an awful lot of pies and the more fingers, the more likely when they get burned it's going to sting a lot! People don't like being SPIED ON!!

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena

Premium Member

Re: who owns our data?

said by Bluetacky :

Too true mate, same here with bells on. By what right do they think they can snoop inside the data packets I send? My data is private between me and whoever I am sending them to.
Welcome to the Patriot Act, and the equivalent of such acts in Canada, Europe, and other western countries.

Under the umbrella "national security" they can snoop inside any data packets they want to snoop in, just to make sure you aren't emailing instructions on how to make a nuclear bomb from Home Depot materials.

That they.... as a side note.... then discover you are transmitting packets that the RIAA would be interested in, is just a nice fat bonus for the RIAA.
If I encrypt those packets, isn't it illegal for anyone except the intended recipient to decrypt them? Or are they above the Law? Are these Laws only for the downtrodden masses to follow?
Not in the U.S..... they can decrypt whatever they want here, as they see fit. See Patriot Act above.

The thing is that encryption can be sophisticated enough nowadays, from any home computer, that it would take anyone not holding a key months, if not years to decrypt your secret recipe for..... CHILI, BlueTacky style.
I can see a certain ISP losing an awful lot of business in the not too distant future! Virgin have their fingers in an awful lot of pies and the more fingers, the more likely when they get burned it's going to sting a lot! People don't like being SPIED ON!!
Well, they have been doing for a 50 years or more with out regular mail. During World War 2 and the cold war, they used to x-ray letters from suspicious persons to see if they were spies. In the "war on drugs" virtually every central mail center in the U.S. have DEA agents with dogs, that will sniff out your mailed joint. That would be REAL "packet sniffing" right there!

No one likes to be spied on, but the reality is that it has been happening for decades, and it will continue. And with such, they are forcing piracy into encryption, and when the masses start doing THAT..... the military that is trying to find terrorists now (that are already using encryption) will all over sudden have to sift through 99% of "RIAA interested" data instead of mostly email encryption.

KodiacZiller
Premium Member
join:2008-09-04
73368

KodiacZiller

Premium Member

Re: who owns our data?

said by maartena:

The thing is that encryption can be sophisticated enough nowadays, from any home computer, that it would take anyone not holding a key months, if not years to decrypt your secret recipe for..... CHILI, BlueTacky style.
How about never. Do you realize how long it would take all the computing power on earth the brute force AES-256? Longer than the age of the universe.

AnonDOG
@kaballero.com

AnonDOG to w0g

Anon

to w0g
said by w0g:

Something is wrong with this. I want to own my data and nobody should look at it or intercept it without my permission.
All your data are belong to us...
vintagewino
join:2003-07-22
Grimsby, ON

3 edits

vintagewino to w0g

Member

to w0g
To answer the question, that is the UK. But, don't fret, we do it here in Canada as well. Bell, Rogers call it under the guise of "traffic management". We never had problems until they started this nonsense. packets are allegedly broken, inspected, modified and/or discarded, as they see fit.

Therefore, following the same logic, your friendly post office should be able to open your mail "just to make certain it's legitimate, and not something illegal", WITHOUT your permission.

It's exactly the same invasion of privacy.

Big Business has become THAT paranoid, that they have lobbied the governments to even THINK to allow that sort of despicable crime.

Odd. A couple of weeks ago, we celebrated Remembrance Day, to remember the supreme sacrifice too many paid so we could have our freedoms. Those poor souls must be rolling in their graves just at the very THOUGHT that their children, and their children's children would actually condone such invasion - the same ideology they fought and died to prevent.

The Fascists have won. Very sad.

several edits made.

cornelius786
@sbcglobal.net

cornelius786

Anon

Re: who owns our data?

well then the fascist figured out that abrupt change will often fail and be hard to pull off, they tried a very slow change. when you compare present day countries to 'fascist' countries of old, the similarities start to appear, which is quite disturbing. it is almost like the 'fascists' have 'won'.
cornelius786

cornelius786 to w0g

Anon

to w0g
well... the 'police' can probably snoop your traffic if they get a warrant to do so.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena to w0g

Premium Member

to w0g
said by w0g:

Something is wrong with this. I want to own my data and nobody should look at it or intercept it without my permission.
On the other hand..... the Federal Government has literary been SNIFFING snail mail for years.... with Dogs. Central mail facilities have drug dogs that will smell your mailed pot from a hundred yards away, and boom yer busted.

Essentially, any byte leaving your house or coming in to your house is not yours to own....

Encryption will change all that, and it looks like that's the way piracy is going to.... Unless the RIAA gets their collective heads out of their collective asses and start thinking about some things.

Rogue Wolf
An Easy Draw of a Sad Few
join:2003-08-12
Troy, NY

Rogue Wolf

Member

Re: who owns our data?

Now, the question is, what is the RIAA more likely to think?

A) "Encryption will make it impossible for us to beat piracy, we'd better reorganize our structure and start trying to compete"

OR

B) "Encryption will make it impossible for us to beat piracy, we'd better call up all those politicians we bought and have them make encryption illegal for citizens"

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena

Premium Member

Re: who owns our data?

said by Rogue Wolf:

Now, the question is, what is the RIAA more likely to think?

A) "Encryption will make it impossible for us to beat piracy, we'd better reorganize our structure and start trying to compete"

OR

B) "Encryption will make it impossible for us to beat piracy, we'd better call up all those politicians we bought and have them make encryption illegal for citizens"
If they make encryption illegal, it is the end of online commerce as we know it, as every credit card number (although not always the case) is sent over » encryption, which THEORETICALLY for file sharing purposes should be all the encryption that is needed. Of course not the same protocol, but the same level/type of encryption can be used.....

Then there is VPN encryption, online encryption, email encryption..... Nope, not going to happen. And the thing about encryption is, that it is virtually impossible to determine what TYPE of software is using encryption by examining the encrypted data. In other words, if you have a P2P client using port 443 and encrypt its data, it might as well be a user browsing » sites or use SSL for a VPN.

They may try to go the B) route and wiggle and worm around some things, but it is only a matter of time before they realize they had better go with A).

The car industry had 16 feet, and shot themselves in 15 of them before they got it. I expect the RIAA to be the same.

AnonDOG
@kaballero.com

AnonDOG

Anon

Is this a US ISP?

If this company is an ISP in the USA, they are in violation of privacy law and can be sued by users, or prosecuted by the Fed.

CALEA establishes that no ISP may do deep packet inspection for the purposes of law enforcement without a subpoena or CALEA action. PERIOD END OF LEGALITY...

Could get ugly for these folks real fast.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Is this a US ISP?

No, it's in the UK.
zipjay
join:2003-03-11
South Williamson, KY

1 recommendation

zipjay

Member

uhm.....

Wouldn't their internet service not be 'virgin' anymore if their using DEEP packed inspection? har har har

Pashune
Caps stifle innovation
Premium Member
join:2006-04-14
Gautier, MS

Pashune

Premium Member

Re: uhm.....

Good one.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

1 recommendation

maartena

Premium Member

The more they mess with user....

...the quicker piracy will get encrypted. And once encryption becomes as easy to use as Napster was back in the day, and every joe-schmoe can encrypt data to a level it will take the 6000 computers in the Pentagon basement a month or two to crack (only to find out it wasn't a manual to make a nuclear bomb, but a restaurants secret chili recipe) we'll have much bigger issue on our hands with national security.

In a sense, software piracy is somewhat similar to the taliban. We've been hunting them for 8 years, and terrorist cells still exist everywhere in the world. And because of international laws, and the fact that the RIAA can't just "invade" another well connected country that may have some more relaxed laws on this piracy issue, you are really never going to get rid of it completely. And the same with the Taliban, we can't invade Pakistan and we all know that is where the main guys are hiding out.

ISP's are spending millions, pressured by the RIAA and their equivalents in other countries, and piracy is still growing. In essence they are taking the "we don't talk to terrorists" stance.... but if they would only listen to what consumers really want, they may fix a lot of things.

The first reason I stopped buying from the big companies all together is DRM loaded crap. If I buy an album, I want to be able to play it in my house, in my car, on my computers, and in my MP3 players and not be restricted to one copy that can only be played on one device. Same with DVD's. A copy for the backseat DVD players in the car, not the original that will just melt in the California summer sun and be worthless after a few hot summer days. A copy I can just re-burn.

The big problem with DRM is really that it doesn't HELP anyone, except the software companies who create DRM code. Anything that has DRM on it, has been or will be cracked within the week of the release of a movie or album. So it isn't stopping pirates whatsoever, but at the same time it is hampering honest consumers who just want to listen to their music in various places throughout the house on a variety of devices.

The car industry had a big "I just don't get it" note pinned to their backs when they boarded corporate jets to go to Washington DC for money.

The music and movie industry is the next industry with that note pinned to their backs. They just don't see how DRM is digging their own grave, and all they are interested in is seeing more profit NOW, not think about the long term future of the company.

AnonDOG
@kaballero.com

AnonDOG

Anon

Re: The more they mess with user....

ISPs are not spending millions....

After I told them it would cost them $50.00 per hour for my time tracking down this shit, I stopped hearing from them.

???
qworster
join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA

1 edit

qworster

Member

Time Warner's doing something too...

My friend likes to download old movies-most of whom are not available elsewhere. He has TW Roadrunner 10/1 Internet. Most tiems his torrents take off, but within a few minutes his connection slows to a crawl-and remains so until he closes UTorrent-then it's right back up to speed immediately.

I mean his torrents slow to under 100 kbps. Just for the heck of it, we both downloaded the same torrent at the same time. My DSL Extreme 6/.768 was averaging 480 kbps, his 10/1 was going at about that speed initially but then about 10 minutes into the torrent, abruptly slowed to about 70 kbps. During this time my DSLX continued flying along.

Time Warner is clearly doing SOMETHING!
praetoralpha
join:2005-08-06
Pittsburgh, PA

praetoralpha

Member

Re: Time Warner's doing something too...

Might also be the number of connections going out.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena to qworster

Premium Member

to qworster
Or he just has set his torrent client to a high number of connections which most home/office routers can't handle. My OpenSUSE torrent came in with 1.7 MB/s almost the entire time, and is still seeding today.