 Marckus0513
Just Because
join:2003-01-11
Vernon, VT
 ·Verizon Online DSL
edit:
May 31st, @12:36PM
| Fairpoint...Problem?? Why is it the opinion of the article writer that Fairpoint is more of a problem than a solution. No one knows what Fairpoint is going to do at this point since it has only been about 2 months since they have been here!! Why is everyone bashing Fairpoint so much when they have not even had a chance to do anything yet!! If the writer is refering to the E911 thing in Maine than please note that Verizon left Fairpoint with the poorly maintained E911 network that failed. It is not Fairpoints fault that this happened...Remember, they have only been running the business for a little over a month now and they still rely heavily on Verizon systems for now until they can get their own up and running.
As far as the fiber thing in central VT. The state rejected any funding or loans for the project. They did not say it could not happen. If this private group wants to put fiber in vermont for services they should come up with the money, and not use my tax dollars for their little project. Especially since it does absolutely nothing for me down here in Vernon. Where, by the way, I have access to DSL from Fairpoint as well as Cable Internet from Comcast. The cell service is not that great but my landline phone never has problems!
Mark | |
|  | jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA | Re: Fairpoint...Problem?? I think they're bashing Fairpoint because they appear to be Verizon's tool. I have family in Farmington, Maine; I feel bad for them because Fairpoint doesn't exactly have a great track record. Only time will tell. | |
| | 
HEDP
join:2008-04-27
Miami, FL
| Because some people think you can crap out a reliable Tier-4 data network overnight and throwing ethernet on a pole with a linksys router dangling with a extension cord from the telephone line as a "reliable" solution.
Specialists and analysts don't know jack what it means to build a network, all they know is hardware specs, and time frames and when those time frames are not met they get their panties in a bunch and start crying wolf about it which in returns hurts a companies image and drives investors with a cautious eye to walk away into telecommunication stocks which are risky in general.
People will continue to invest in the beast called AT&T & Verizon because they already have the network and pretty much every other provider is left to handle the scraps from the major carriers. They complain about duopoly markets yet still pay their bills at the end of the month with outrageous taxes and overpriced services.
People bitch and complain all the time though, and pretty much if you ever ran a business or been in some sort of sales or management position you basically hear it all the time. | |
| BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | why is this so hard. There are COUNTIES in the US bigger than Vermont. | |
| | 
dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: why is this so hard. said by BF69  :There are COUNTIES in the US bigger than Vermont. So this totally blows the size of the area arguement out of the water.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
| alchav
join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA
|  Fiber vs Wireless!
| |
| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: Fiber vs Wireless! And the wireless will have caps. Thanks VT. | |
| | 
iLive4Apple
Hybrid power
Premium
join:2006-07-13
Hoover, AL | Vermont needs their own satellite then | |
| majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY | hmm Isnt Vermont a lot of mountains? Wouldn't it be hard to wire all of vermont with fiber due to the states geography? | |
| | EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Re: hmm Mountains aren't great for wireless either, though. | |
| | 
nycommconnect
@taconic.net
| yea i was gonna say that too. its alot easier to string fiber and know its going to be reliable then put up some antennas and know that they will be reliable.
and in response to above posts:
fairpoint is a horrible company. i have them here in eastern new york. we have had them since the 1990's. before that the company was known as Taconic Telephone and they actually cared about things. now fairpoint has no plans for doing anything in the next 10 years (i know the plant manager) and they are going to wait until the copper network is milked for EVERYTHING it can be.
and were not waiting for that to happen.
so we have a group thats going to change it all. | |
| | | bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | Re: hmm There is a reason why no one wants to offer service in the state. There isn't enough profit in it. No one is owed anything; if there isn't a big enough profit motive in it, then don't expect to have great service options. | |
| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: hmm If they don't want to be a public utlity, its simple, let the public revoke their ROW access, and sieze the physical plant and make muni telcos who give a shit and are willing to get USDA fiber loans. | |
| | | | | EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA
| Re: hmm Verizon found a solution to that problem more palatable to it's shareholders than yours, I suppose...
Fairpoint does want to provide service to these states, but seems convinced that FTTH isn't necessary, and even if it did probably couldn't afford to make a large-scale deployment with it's existing large debt. | |
| | | | | bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
| As long as the public is willing to pay them what their network is worth, as per the requirements of eminent domain, then that's fine. But the public is too cheap to spend taxpayer money that way.
So live with what you've got, because we don't deserve any more than we're willing to pay for. | |
| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
edit:
May 31st, @09:06PM
| Re: I say again Yeah, if you have electricity, you have a right to all other pole fed utilities, this is just insane you dont. | |
| | | 
a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Corona, NY
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: I say again Why not put low-frequency WiMax equipment on hilltop towers, and feed THOSE with fiber? Install more RT's, and feed ADSL2+ from them, or RE-ADSL2. Provide grants to cable companies to upgrade to DOCSIS technology.
While the terrain argument may apply to higher frequencies, why not use lower ones? Also, the gov't can use LOS-based microwave towers as backhaul to remote areas, then re-distribute service using WiMax or WiFi on a localized basis, from the tower. Then, once there is sufficient ROI, they can upgrade to fiber backhauls, and in the end, full FTTH. | |
| | | | 
Vchat20
Bother me....and DIE
join:2003-09-16
Warren, OH
 ·Time Warner VOIP
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: I say again You're forgetting this is fairpoint territory you are talking about. They aren't gonna do squat to improve the situation and if they are as assholeish as they sound, they aren't gonna let anyone else do it without a fight either.
Sad case really. But you ARE right, these are all valid solutions to the problem. Just not gonna happen in the lifetime of anyone living there.
--
I swear, some people should have pace-makers installed to free up the resources. Breathing and heart beat taxes their whole system, all of their brain cells wasted on life support.-two bit brains, and the second bit is wasted on parity! ~head_spaz | |
| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| said by a333 :Why not put low-frequency WiMax equipment on hilltop towers, and feed THOSE with fiber? Install more RT's, and feed ADSL2+ from them, or RE-ADSL2. Provide grants to cable companies to upgrade to DOCSIS technology. While the terrain argument may apply to higher frequencies, why not use lower ones? Also, the gov't can use LOS-based microwave towers as backhaul to remote areas, then re-distribute service using WiMax or WiFi on a localized basis, from the tower. Then, once there is sufficient ROI, they can upgrade to fiber backhauls, and in the end, full FTTH. Hmm, a muni fiber MAN network, great idea. City can sell/lease fiber strands or wavelengths to ISPs/resellers. And that will encourage investment or the city outright going into WiMAX and cell carrier CAN lease for towers (note word "can", they probably will refuse due to "dog in a manger" market suppression and "not invented here"). Businesses can also lease fiber going back to POPs/NOCs/COs as a T1 alternative. | |
| | | | | Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast
| Re: I say again  In our area several cities are leasing out the top of tall public buildings and standpipes (water towers) to cell carriers. There is plenty of room at many locations for WiMAX equipment. | |
| balloonfarm
join:2008-06-01
West Townshend, VT
| Wireless--it doesn't make sense here. They won't allow a single highway billboard in Vermont (which is fine by me), but they want to dot the landscape with cell towers? In a region mostly covered with small mountains, where the signals aren't likely to travel into the valley beyond the next hill?
More are more VT residents seem to be opting for satellite, which is unfortunate due to its cost, unreliability and limitations. Also, it requires the purchase of expensive equipment and long contracts, which are likely to slow down the progress of fiber or cable systems getting new subscribers if or when such technologies do eventually arrive here. | |
| ajeff
join:2007-07-30
Saint Johnsbury, VT
| VT Gov Forgot Something,,, As an IT professional I have the misfortune of living in the most rural portion of the the most rural state in the union. The State of Vermont has provided substantial grants to local outfits to provide broadband, wireless unfortunately, to this area. I'm presently dealing with the second ISP after the first took the money and went belly-up. The grants at no time provide for a certain level of maintenance and service, only that the infrastructure be built. The end result is a wireless system that provides marginal service at best with no incentive to improve. For months I have been dealing with "Tech Support" at Great Auk Wireless re packet loss usually in the neighborhood of 10-20% but occasionally greater. Makes for wonderful VOIP phone calls!!! They talk nice, but have no incentive to tackle the problem. There are wireless broadband systems in place in this country that provide great service - the problem is not the technology but rather the State of Vermont for not being willing to do the E-State thing correctly by requiring a quality product. | |
| | Marckus0513
Just Because
join:2003-01-11
Vernon, VT
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: VT Gov Forgot Something,,, You make a choice to live where you live! If you choose to live where all you can get is wireless internet then that is your choice. Yes, it sucks that the company you are dealing with doesn't seem to care about their service but if you need reliable internet move to somewhere where you can get DSL or Cable. | |
| | | ajeff
join:2007-07-30
Saint Johnsbury, VT | Re: VT Gov Forgot Something,,, You're kidding, right??? | |
| | | | Marckus0513
Just Because
join:2003-01-11
Vernon, VT
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: VT Gov Forgot Something,,, said by ajeff :You're kidding, right??? I understand your point and I also understand that moving is sometimes not an option. But it amazes me to hear everyone on this forum talking like they are so entitled to everything they want and they should all have fiber optics right to there house that is out in the middle of the sticks. All I was trying to say is that if you absolutely need high speed internet for your work or whatever I would think that you would bring that into your decision as to where you are going to live. The fact of the matter is that no company is going to give every area no matter the cost the broadband that they want. Verizon is a fine example...deep pockets, perfectly able to deploy broadband to more rural areas if they wanted and they jumped ship leaving us with a company that though they seem more motivated to provide service may not have the means to give everyone in rural areas the speeds that they want. I am just happy that they want to give everyone at least something other than dialup. I think you will find that most people in rural areas will be happy with the speeds that DSL affords them. And if that just won't do, then they will have to think about moving to areas that are more populated to get the fancy super speed fiber.
Thats all I was trying to say.....  | |
| | | | | ajeff
join:2007-07-30
Saint Johnsbury, VT
| Re: VT Gov Forgot Something,,, Let's make sure we understand the situation here:
The Vermont Governor has pledged to make Vermont an E-state by whenever. He did not say part of Vermont, he did not say only those who don't live in the boonies, he said the WHOLE state. I pay taxes, probably more than most and definitely more than those living in the shadow of Vermont Yankee. We are not talking free market here. We are talking state and federal grants, my tax dollars, to provide services to ALL of Vermont. My stance is that the state has not required the recipients of these monies to provide a quality product to the end user.
Finally, where I live should not be dictated by my ability or inability to get broadband service. If that were the case we'd all be living on Church Street in Burlington! | |
| | | | | | Marckus0513
Just Because
join:2003-01-11
Vernon, VT
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: VT Gov Forgot Something,,, Yes, the Governor has this idea of an E-state which basically says that everyone will have access to cellular service and some sort of broadband by I think 2012. Personally, I think that his vision is a little ambitious and un-realistic. As far as the money goes I am not in tune with how the money is to be handed out so I cannot speak to that. I don't know who has gotten or who is getting the money. As you said the money that is being handed out by the state are our tax dollars. I realize that I live in Vernon and everyone thinks that we pay low taxes but let me tell you, my taxes have more than tripled since the state education tax thing, so I pay quite a bit in taxes.
As I said before, I believe that everyone should have the ability to get broadband. I don't believe that everyone should be entitled to FTTH because that is not reasonable. I think you will see Fairpoint expanding DSL to many many areas that don't currently have it because unlike Verizon, these states are Fairpoint's business and they need to do this to stay in business. Like it or not DSL and Cable will be the broadband that most people get in these three states. No company is going to invest in fiber for everyone and that is all I have been trying to say. | |
| | | | | | | ajeff
join:2007-07-30
Saint Johnsbury, VT
| Re: VT Gov Forgot Something,,, I'd be more than happy w/1meg DSL with no packet loss or jitter, a pretty reasonable request in this day in age! What I'm getting is (occasionally!!)740 down, 256 up with 10-20% packet loss and jitter in 40-300ms range, and outages of some sort almost daily. For this I am considered a "power user" and I pay $50/month to a company (Great Auk Wireles) that the other day told me that their best tech people are high school students!!! In the state's eyes, I am serviced with broadband. GAW has no incentive to improve as they are the only game in town and the state doesn't care.
If you were a small, non polluting service company that was dependent on broadband and could provide much needed employment in this economically deprived region would you move to an area that can only provide the above??? This was not what Sen. Leahy had in mind when he procured federal e-state funding!
I realize I won't see fiber up here in my lifetime but at least give me something that works!!! | |
| | | | | | | | Marckus0513
Just Because
join:2003-01-11
Vernon, VT
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: VT Gov Forgot Something,,, I agree with you 100%! You should be able to get something much better than what you have. Perhaps Fairpoint will bring you DSL at some point. It stinks that GAW is not providing the service that they should be, but they better look out because when an alternative comes to town they will be out of business up there if they don't shape up! | |
| | | 
mouseferatu
Too many cats, Too many mice
Premium,MVM
join:2004-03-16
Im not sure
clubs:
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
·Vonage
| said by Marckus0513 : If you choose to live where all you can get is wireless internet then that is your choice. You know, that strikes me as a remarkably simplistic view of many folks lives. It is completely absurd to assume that most people have the luxury of choosing the place that they live based solely or primarily on the delivery of HSI.
FairPoint has not offered a logical solution to any of the three northern New England States, they have only managed to lose a mint so far. Their long-term vision of "someday" DSL for all includes you too, even though it would appear that you already have DSL. It includes me, and I have fiber.
Did you go to any of the open meetings of the utilities commissions in any of the three states? If you did, you are aware that the entire FairPoint deal was made on provisional promises, and fulfilling those to the State of Vermont are part of the deal.
And, FWIW, folks that commented on the provisioning problems due to terrain are correct... Adelphia was thrilled to see the last of this area, and Verizon follows their example.
Utilities are above-ground, and I still pay an absurd rate for cable TV that rarely has a decent signal for two days in a row, and we are accustomed to prolonged power outages every time there is lousy weather.
--
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crispy and good with catsup." | |
| | | | Marckus0513
Just Because
join:2003-01-11
Vernon, VT
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: VT Gov Forgot Something,,, All I have to say is that I have lived in Vermont all of my life and if you choose to live in this relatively rural yet pretty state you have to expect power outages. As far as your cable goes I would say that the company you use should probably fix the lines so your signal is better. I have Comcast for cable and although I pay absurd prices for the basic programming I don't have problems. Of course I don't live way out in the sticks either. I live in a somewhat rural area but not way out there like lots of Vermonters do. Living in rural New England has its benefits like clean air, lots of foliage and trees, and the overall quietness of the country, but that comes with some drawbacks if you want to call them that, like....trees falling on power lines, no FTTH to rural areas and not the greatest cell service. But ya know what, most of us who live here wouldn't have it any other way!!
PS....Would I like to have fiber to my house?? Hell yes! But I live with what I can get and don't complain that I live in rural New England but can't get the luxuries of the city....Sheesh!! | |
| | | | |
mouseferatu
Too many cats, Too many mice
Premium,MVM
join:2004-03-16
Im not sure
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
·Vonage
| Re: VT Gov Forgot Something,,, said by Marckus0513 : Of course I don't live way out in the sticks either. I live in a somewhat rural area but not way out there like lots of Vermonters do. PS....Would I like to have fiber to my house?? Hell yes! But I live with what I can get and don't complain that I live in rural New England but can't get the luxuries of the city....Sheesh!! I don't live "way out in the sticks". I commute regularly to Boston or the I128 Tech loop. I live where I live because my other half commutes north. As you obviously note, Verizon didn't run fiber here to lose a lot of money.
It isn't about me, and it isn't about you, either. It is about the fact that FairPoint made a number of promises to the three northern New England States. That includes Vermont, and it includes all of those folks "way out in the sticks" as you term it. They were promised DSL access, not a 10 million dollar loss as soon as FairPoint sent out their first bill.
»FairPoint Lost $10 Million in 1st Quarter
I did not state that FairPoint offered fiber, and neither did they at the open PUC meetings. Conversely, they didn't mention that they thought that anyone lived "way out in the sticks". They promised that they would provision everyone in Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire.
It's nice that you have decent cable and good DSL. That same cable provider can't keep this area up for any reasonable length of time, and can't provide reasonable HSI to my home or many others. The previous cable provider didn't maintain equipment very well, and it shows now...
Everyone who lives in these three states has paid heavily for years for mediocre utilities, and the people of these states deserve decent access.
--
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crispy and good with catsup." | |
| | | | | | Marckus0513
Just Because
join:2003-01-11
Vernon, VT
·Verizon Online DSL
edit:
June 4th, @08:17AM
| Re: VT Gov Forgot Something,,, I never meant to imply that you live 'way out in the sticks'. I don't know where you live, I was simply pointing out that there are many people that do live way out in these three states. I agree 100% with you that everyone (or most everyone) deserves good quality services including DSL. As far as Fairpoint goes, they just got in here. We have to give them some time to do what they say they are going to do. I don;t know much about their financials but I would suspect that after this huge acquisition their quarterly numbers may have taken a hit. We need to give them some time to get stuff done. Verizon raped and neglected this area for years, Fairpoint needs some time to put it back together. I believe they will be doing expanding broadband to many areas like they promised, they are putting a new system at the end of my road for DSL and I already have DSL out of a system that is much farther away!!
Will everyone without exception have DSL in ME, NH, and VT??? I doubt it but I believe that the vast majority will. You will always have the few people that just live so far off the beaten path that it is not feasible to give them wired broadband. I did hear that Fairpoint was going to be doing WIMax to some more rural areas as well, who knows how well that will work? I guess we will have to wait and see. | |
| | | balloonfarm
join:2008-06-01
West Townshend, VT
edit:
June 2nd, @08:12AM
| said by Marckus0513 :Yes, it sucks that the company you are dealing with doesn't seem to care about their service but if you need reliable internet move to somewhere where you can get DSL or Cable. Or you can discuss. Or you can fight. But don't run. That's cowardice, dude. Do you really think that moving is the only solution to every problem that comes your way? Sooner or later, you'd end up on the street. | |
| | | | Marckus0513
Just Because
join:2003-01-11
Vernon, VT
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: VT Gov Forgot Something,,, Cowardice??? No, I don't think moving is the only solution. I see you live in West Townshend and I suspect that you cannot get any broadband, I know that area well and I feel for ya. I was not saying that Fairpoint should not deploy broadband to everyone (for the most part). All I was saying is that many people in these forums are not going to be happy with everyone having just any old broadband connection, it has to be FTTH. DSL just won't cut it with many of the people who post here. If they cannot get fiber to their house 5 miles down a lonely dirt rd in 'east where am I' then they will not be happy. I strongly feel that the majority of people in the Northern States should have access to some sort of broadband (DSL, cable, WIMAX) but expecting FTTH everywhere up here is just unreasonable and is not going to happen!!
My point...If you need the super duper state of the art fiber to your house....Move to a urban populated area and you may get it. | |
| | | | | balloonfarm
join:2008-06-01
West Townshend, VT
| Re: VT Gov Forgot Something,,, Sorry--no offense intended. I was, of course, referring to any broadband whatsoever. In West Townshend and surrounding communities, we're roughly midpoint between Bratt and Manchester along 30, which is hardly the sticks. It's quite well populated, but hilly, and no broadband or mobile phone service exists--only expensive 26.4kb/s dialup. Since most of us don't consider satellite a legitimate option, all we want at is at least one true broadband provider. | |
| | | | | | Marckus0513
Just Because
join:2003-01-11
Vernon, VT | Re: VT Gov Forgot Something,,, I agree...You should have something other than dialup. Lets keep our fingers crossed that Fairpoint will expand DSL to your area.
| |
| | fgoldstein
join:2003-01-21
Newton Highlands, MA
| Didn't the state's new law make it easier to put up antennas?
I know that under the old rules, essentially any antenna was seen as a major project, requiring ridiculous paperwork. It's not uncommon for a rural area to have a mesh radio network using utility poles, but in Vermont that would have been a bigger deal per pole than it was ever worth. Hasn't that been fixed?
The hills and trees do get in the way, though. Licensed WiMAX might have enough power to bash through, but unless you're Sprint/Clearpoint, you probably don't have a license, and they're not exactly available any more. The 3.65 GHz band is available in most of VT (not the Northeast Kingdom; that's too close to Andover, ME) and gear for that is just starting to show up. But foliage is a problem. | |
| | |
mouseferatu
Too many cats, Too many mice
Premium,MVM
join:2004-03-16
Im not sure
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
·Vonage
| Re: VT Gov Forgot Something,,, Your comments concerning antennas bring up a major issue that applies to huge tracts of land in all three northern states.
I am just north of the MA border, but I am in a cell dead zone. There has been discussion about these numerous dead zones for years, but actually getting antennas deployed is a nearly impossible problem.
Between trees, magnetic mountains, existing overground lines and resistance from residents who don't want them because they don't need them, the situation has been stagnant for a long while. Add in the restrictions of height, land elevation, minimal acreage requirements, etc. and I would bet you lunch that this will be a cell dead zone another ten years from now.
The only thing that makes people flip out more than saying "antenna", is dropping the words "nuke plant". Any number of them do not seem to understand the difference.
--
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crispy and good with catsup." | |
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Vermont Struggles to Get Fully Wired
I say again