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Verizon: We're Testing 10 Gbps FiOS And You Aren't
Verizon insists they're ready for tomorrow's bandwidth needs

Sure, Verizon's been testing 100 Mbps FiOS connections in a handful of employee homes for several years now (see video). But Verizon executives have also admitted that for the moment -- the 100 Mbps mark is little more than marketing fluff. So what exactly are we supposed to think when Verizon announces that they're testing 10 Gbps service to the home? According to a Verizon press release, the company just got done field testing a passive optical network system dubbed XG-PON, with hardware by Huawei, capable of transmitting data at 10 gigabits per second downstream and 2.4 Gbps upstream:

quote:
The test, conducted recently in southern Massachusetts, sets the stage for Verizon to meet the emerging customer demand for a wide variety of devices and applications that require a network capable of transmitting large amounts of data at very high speeds. The devices and applications could include unicast HD video streaming, ultra-high-definition video, 3D video, user-generated content distribution, video conferencing, and new high-speed data services for medium- and large-business customers.
If Verizon considers 100 Mbps service little more than marketing BS, we can only wonder what they candidly think about their own announcement of 10 Gbps residential service this early in the game. Still, it's an exciting announcement to bandwidth nerds, for whom even 100 Gbps of bandwidth jacked directly into their cerebral cortex might not be enough.

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With cable operators like Cablevision and Mediacom offering 100+ Mbps service, it's a good bet that Verizon will launch a 100 Mbps FiOS tier sometime next year just to save face, even if only a few customers are interested. But 10 Gbps? The standard Verizon's applying here, XG-PON, won't be officially ratified as a standard until 2010 or later. It's also of course being shared between every user on a local node, which could consist of say -- thirty homes.

The point Verizon's (correctly) trying to make is that their $23 billion investment in fiber to home service -- despite the complaints of weak kneed investors who fainted like 1880's cinema southern bells at the very idea of dumping billions back into the network -- guarantees Verizon's competitiveness for the next fifteen years or more. From BPON to faster GPON (50% of their network should be upgraded to GPON next year) -- to XG-PON -- Verizon is ready to deliver serious bandwidth. Well, as long as you live in a market Verizon thinks is profitable.

"From the earliest stages of the FiOS design, we knew we could repeatedly and progressively leverage the immense capacity of fiber to carry more and more data in support of customer applications," says Mark Wegleitner, senior vice president of technology for Verizon. "Now we're already working on the best way to take the next leap forward in capacity."
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ender7074
join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO

ender7074

Member

whoopie

10 Gb connection with what kind of cap? Nice speed but not worth it if they are going to institute BS caps on the service.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

1 edit

1 recommendation

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: whoopie

Well, it's kind of the nice thing about actually investing in your network architecture: you don't need "BS caps." You might still need some kind of cap/wall/system that isolates 99.4% of your customers from the kind of gluttons who should be on business tiers, but you shouldn't need "BS caps."
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin

Member

Re: whoopie

said by Karl Bode:

Well, it's kind of the nice thing about actually investing in your network architecture: you don't need "BS caps." You might still need some kind of cap/wall/system that isolates 99.4% of your customers from the kind of gluttons who should be on business tiers, but you shouldn't need "BS caps."
There are no such thing as internet gluttons. There are only people who ride the wave of future applications and those who don`t.

Until a company demonstrates a negative profit for a single quarter, there is no excuse to call their heaviest users `gluttons`.
Expand your moderator at work

Cheddarhead
Ain't Nuthin But A Thang
join:2002-02-19
Hudson, WI

Cheddarhead to sonicmerlin

Member

to sonicmerlin

Re: whoopie

said by sonicmerlin:
said by Karl Bode:

Well, it's kind of the nice thing about actually investing in your network architecture: you don't need "BS caps." You might still need some kind of cap/wall/system that isolates 99.4% of your customers from the kind of gluttons who should be on business tiers, but you shouldn't need "BS caps."
There are no such thing as internet gluttons. There are only people who ride the wave of future applications and those who don`t.

Until a company demonstrates a negative profit for a single quarter, there is no excuse to call their heaviest users `gluttons`.
negative profit= oxymoron
ender7074
join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO

1 recommendation

ender7074 to Karl Bode

Member

to Karl Bode
If .6 of your customers are causing a big enough effect for the other 99.4% to notice, there's network issues there. Caps do nothing except nickel and dime customers that are already paying.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx to ender7074

Member

to ender7074
FiOS doesn't do caps.
google2
join:2004-02-04
South Beloit, IL

google2

Member

Re: whoopie

said by iansltx:

FiOS doesn't do caps.
Yet.

NJBoricua75
Born And Raised
join:2000-09-13
Brooklyn, NY

NJBoricua75

Member

Re: whoopie

said by google2:

said by iansltx:

FiOS doesn't do caps.
Yet.
Exactly.

HarleyYac
Lee
Premium Member
join:2001-10-13
Allendale, NJ

HarleyYac to ender7074

Premium Member

to ender7074
We don't do caps ....... yet

toby
Troy Mcclure
join:2001-11-13
Seattle, WA

toby to ender7074

Member

to ender7074
said by ender7074:

10 Gb connection with what kind of cap? Nice speed but not worth it if they are going to institute BS caps on the service.
1Gb cap

iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Correction

The 10 Gbps is shared among everyone on the node. So realistically Verizon will be able to push gigabit down, 250 Mbit up service over the upcoming network. just clarifying

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: Correction

You are correct, sir. I've adjusted the language.

JRW2
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Gary, Ziggy, Max.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-20
La La Land

JRW2 to iansltx

Premium Member

to iansltx
said by iansltx:

The 10 Gbps is shared among everyone on the node. So realistically Verizon will be able to push gigabit down, 250 Mbit up service over the upcoming network. just clarifying
That a little LEAN, but I'll try it.
BTW, at this point it is only a marketing ploy, but if it is rolled out, and I don't see why something like it won't, I wonder what cable's response will be??
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

2 recommendations

iansltx

Member

Re: Correction

RFoG.

Seriously, 8x4 channel bonded DOCSIS 3.0 will be out soonish, but that's at most 304/120...with one person spread across all eight channels.

So all Verizon has to do is push out a 350 Mbps down, 150 Mbps up tier and cable has to bring fiber all the way to the home to compete.

Heck, if Verizon came out with 150/30 right now cable couldn't compete, since even the highest-end deployments in teh US are one channel up, four channels down DOCSIS 3.

JRW2
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Gary, Ziggy, Max.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-20
La La Land

JRW2

Premium Member

Re: Correction

Shared by how many people??
200+ per node??

I'll take sharing the fiber bandwidth with 30 people please...
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Correction

Yep, at most 64 people on a node so PLENTY of bandwidth to go around.

rawgerz
The hell was that?
Premium Member
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA

rawgerz to iansltx

Premium Member

to iansltx
Can RFOG later be used as GPON?
I keep trying to imagine what the limits are of a local MSO that uses RFOG with fiber drops. But when I see their aerials I think of everyone connected to a single fiber strand and something like fios, where everyone has their own individual piece of fiber back to those cabinets where they all connect to must have more future capacity? Then again I have no idea if those fiber aerials have a strand for each home, or just one large one for all?
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Correction

Depending on how GPON is set up, it can be as fiber-dense as active optical or might just use one fiber per node, with splitters running off the main drag like coax. In answer to your GPON/RFoG question, I think they can actually coexist on the same strand.

rebus9
join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay

2 edits

rebus9 to JRW2

Member

to JRW2
said by JRW2:

BTW, at this point it is only a marketing ploy, but if it is rolled out, and I don't see why something like it won't, I wonder what cable's response will be??
I heard from a local cable installer that BHN is planning its own FTTP. Whether that's 1, 5, or 10 years away, he didn't know.

It makes sense, though. They already have fiber to the neighborhood, so replacing the last few hundred feet of coax with new fiber isn't as huge an undertaking as FIOS, which had to lay down an entire fiber footprint from scratch.
UncleDirtNap
join:2006-08-26
Pittsburgh, PA

1 edit

1 recommendation

UncleDirtNap to JRW2

Member

to JRW2
Personally, as a past Comcast abuse victim who's utter disdain for the company has grown exponentially with their purchase of NBC/Universal...

I'd love for Verizon to release 10Gbps now just for the heck of it and put that company out of business once for all. Instead of engaging in this tedious game of one-up-manship.

Just go nuclear on them man and finish the cable turds off already!

JRW2
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Gary, Ziggy, Max.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-20
La La Land

1 recommendation

JRW2

Premium Member

Re: Correction

said by UncleDirtNap:

I'd love for Verizon to release now just for the heck of it and put that company out of business once for all instead of engaging in this tedious game of one-up-manship.

Just go nuclear on them man and finish the cable turds off already!
While I'm no big fan of "Big Business", the cable companies have been running roughshod over their respective customers for far too long now, and need a quick dose of reality.

Whomever at Verizon that decided to run fiber to our houses, has done what I have said needed to be done ten years ago.

With that fiber at our homes, they have the potential to run an unlimited amount of "product" to our homes for little or no additional cost, a genius move if you ask me. Cable companies on the other-hand, pulled up short by not doing the same when they were running fiber, and they WILL pay for it if they continue to refuse to complete the job, so to speak...

Radio Active
My pappy's a pistol
Premium Member
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA

Radio Active to iansltx

Premium Member

to iansltx
said by iansltx:

The 10 Gbps is shared among everyone on the node. So realistically Verizon will be able to push gigabit down, 250 Mbit up service over the upcoming network. just clarifying
It's all fluff, smoke and mirrors. How many consumers' computers can actually utilize/process that kind of bandwidth?

Not bagging on iansltx See Profile.

gatorkram
Need for Speed
Premium Member
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC

gatorkram

Premium Member

Re: Correction

said by Radio Active:
said by iansltx:

The 10 Gbps is shared among everyone on the node. So realistically Verizon will be able to push gigabit down, 250 Mbit up service over the upcoming network. just clarifying
It's all fluff, smoke and mirrors. How many consumers' computers can actually utilize/process that kind of bandwidth?

Not bagging on iansltx See Profile.
How many people, who would want that type of speed, only have 1 computer at home?

Just saying..

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine

Member

Re: Correction

I barely use 30Mbps as it is.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx to Radio Active

Member

to Radio Active
Meh, my computers can do about 100 Mbit without any problems. If I tuned everything I could probably get up to 200 Mbit. I'd be perfectly happy with a 100 Mbit symmetric connection, to tell you the truth. Heck, 30/30 would be lovely. Just don't charge me through the nose for it and it's all great.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to Radio Active

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to Radio Active
said by Radio Active:
said by iansltx:

The 10 Gbps is shared among everyone on the node. So realistically Verizon will be able to push gigabit down, 250 Mbit up service over the upcoming network. just clarifying
It's all fluff, smoke and mirrors. How many consumers' computers can actually utilize/process that kind of bandwidth?

Not bagging on iansltx See Profile.
No one computer can yet in the home, however since more and more crap is becoming a connected device. i can see how the demand for bandwidth will grow sharply. more importantly the demand for sustained bandwidth vs bursting.
Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

2 recommendations

Lazlow to Radio Active

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to Radio Active
Well 100Mbit is only about 9.5MB/s(reality) and GigE is about 95MB/s. There are a lot of (non raid) hard drives out there that are at 100MB/s of throughput. So if one splits 10Gb/s 64 times, I would suspect that there are a lot of computers out there that can handle this speed.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt to Radio Active

Premium Member

to Radio Active
said by Radio Active:

It's all fluff, smoke and mirrors. How many consumers' computers can actually utilize/process that kind of bandwidth?

NONE...yet! But imagine a sigle fiber able to handle a medium business location, or a apt. complex/hotel or a personal server farm (don't forget the cost of the service, plus the power requirements/bill)
By the time this reaches end user deployment, there will be demand (one drives the other)

Radio Active
My pappy's a pistol
Premium Member
join:2003-01-31
Fullerton, CA

Radio Active

Premium Member

Re: Correction

said by tshirt:
said by Radio Active:

It's all fluff, smoke and mirrors. How many consumers' computers can actually utilize/process that kind of bandwidth?

NONE...yet! But imagine a sigle fiber able to handle a medium business location, or a apt. complex/hotel or a personal server farm (don't forget the cost of the service, plus the power requirements/bill)
By the time this reaches end user deployment, there will be demand (one drives the other)
Good point. I just wasn't looking at the "bigger" picture, that one connection could actually be used for more than a couple or few devices.

"D'OH!" on me. With many devices and adequate routing and switching, I imagine this is not unattainable or unusable. Thanks, all, for the clue.

PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD

PGHammer to Radio Active

Member

to Radio Active
Actually, gigabit on desktops is more common now than it was even three years ago. The lag is internal to the desktop, not at the LAN port, in most cases. Even wireless-N (2.4 GHz N) is 145 mbps (faster than wired Fast Ethernet, which had been the pre-2005 desktop standard). So, it's not that desktops (or even portable computers) can't swallow it; it's that it's not profitable to spit out data that fast in a residential setting. Generally, unless you have a carrier willing to loss-lead with bandwidth, consumption will be governed (at the residential level) by the MOST (not least) expensive national carrier. And, despite Comcast and FIOS, the only truly national US broadband carriers are cellular (VZW, Sprint, and AT&T Mobility); theey are also, by and large, the most expensive.

Because I recently replaced the G router serving the house with an N router, once I can get an N PC card for the legacy laptop in the netbook role, the slowest link in the LAN will be a *wired desktop* (remember, 2.4 GHz N is 145 mbps, which is faster than Fast Ethernet); in short, I can replace the wired connection to that desktop with wireless and see bandwidth go up (not to mention banishing wire clutter). And I'm at the LOW end of typical for BBR/DSLR.

••••

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536 to iansltx

Premium Member

to iansltx
said by iansltx:

The 10 Gbps is shared among everyone on the node. So realistically Verizon will be able to push gigabit down, 250 Mbit up service over the upcoming network. just clarifying
I think i could handle 10gbps shared among 32 other people!
the bottleneck would be the users equipment anyway.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Correction

Same here.

Heck, BPON would be an upgrade from DOCSIS 3...

gatorkram
Need for Speed
Premium Member
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC

gatorkram

Premium Member

Gimmie!

Yes, we all knew, I'd find this news story, and say, I want it..

I WANT IT

quoted from the story
quote:
" it's an exciting announcement to bandwidth nerds, for whom even 100 Gbps of bandwidth jacked directly into their cerebral cortex might not be enough."

I don't know about right into my cerebral cortex, but you have my attention...
gatorkram

gatorkram

Premium Member

Re: Gimmie!

Reading the full story over here : »newscenter.verizon.com/p ··· lds.html

makes me wanna know how I could be the guy whos house they are testing this in...

Oh yeah, darn, I only have SuddenLink here..

If anyone from SuddenLink is reading this post, I do have a new docsis 3.0 modem we could juice up...

DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium Member
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

DarkLogix to gatorkram

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to gatorkram
well you'd need a firewall or your cerebral cortex might get pwned

imagine the doctors
ok so this person has the codered virus in his brain
quick call symantec we need a human antivirus

12 months later
Symantec real "Personal" edition

digdug
Premium Member
join:2008-02-01
Mount Vernon, WA

digdug

Premium Member

Great news but....

I'm still stuck with 3M DSL from VZ
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Great news but....

Wish I could get that here. Too far out (back in TX now). That said, I've heard that the new VZ DSL system around here is problematic overall.

onionbelter2
@verizon.net

onionbelter2 to digdug

Anon

to digdug
I know the feeling well. I'm in NYC stuck with dsl too, my building doesn't have cable, if you can believe that lol.

gogeta6
join:2002-06-20
San Diego, CA

gogeta6

Member

40/100 Gb/s switches

It has been a few years since I heard 10Gb line cards were as good as it gets, but are 40 or 100 ones at all common by now?

Still 10Gb to the home is a sweet goal.

joebarnhart
Paxio evangelist
join:2005-12-15
Santa Clara, CA

1 recommendation

joebarnhart

Member

Self-confessed bandwidth nerd

Kudos to FIOS! As a self-confessed bandwidth nerd, I can tell you that 100M/100M service is wonderful to behold. I find new uses for it every day.

But if you think it's easy to push more than 100M thru a typical router/firewall, think again! I had to build a special router from a single-board computer to even get to this speed:


••••••••••••••••

HunterZ
join:2003-07-16
Kent, WA

HunterZ

Member

Too bad

Too bad the telcos have things tied up so that Verizon couldn't provide me FiOS even if they wanted to (barring a buyout of Qwest). My only choice for faster-than-DSL Internet service is cable, which is why I use Comcast.

CptGemini
Inside your computer
Premium Member
join:2004-11-29
Corpus Christi, TX

CptGemini

Premium Member

Re: Too bad

Fios is not even available here in my neck of the woods, best we can get is 12mbits from grande communications and even then that company isnt very consistant with their speeds and latency.

Murdoc49
Premium Member
join:2009-02-08
Manitowoc, WI

Murdoc49

Premium Member

Verizon insists they're ready for tomorrow's bandwidth needs

So the Metered billing fiasco is gonna be called off now?

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

1 edit

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: Verizon insists they're ready for tomorrow's bandwidth needs

We'll see. A new CEO, a couple of grumpy investors, and this whole idea of actually putting earnings back into the network could fall apart real quickly.

I still think the forces of greed defeat the forces of logic and we're facing low caps and high overages among most ISPs by 2014.
chimera4
join:2009-06-09
Washington, DC

chimera4

Member

Those be backbone speeds

10 Gbps, them be backbone speeds. To be honest I didn't even think you could push 10Gbps over a single fiber beyond a few miles and even that is using ethernet. I'm really curious about what the range is on this and if they could actually start playing with this to connect backbone locations assuming it has any real range and can compete against OC-X connections in terms of reliability.

•••••••••

vpro
@verizon.net

vpro

Anon

price what matter

I wouldn't mind 100/100 Mbps but it will be $200+ for us since we live outside NYC. Verizon can easily give 100/50 for $75. I'll take that.

ARGONAUT
Have a nice day.
Premium Member
join:2006-01-24
New Albany, IN

ARGONAUT

Premium Member

Why fiber?

Fiber = 7% of homes and no more in the US.

I live in a city and two miles away from me there's no cable because it's too far to justify the cost. How is running fiber justified when cable can't make it there?

••••

onionbelter2
@verizon.net

onionbelter2

Anon

Lets fill up those fios gaps first,

Like in the new york city area, then start thinking ahead. As it is, it's all a pipe dream. Talk about counting your chickens b4 they hatch lol.

NJBoricua75
Born And Raised
join:2000-09-13
Brooklyn, NY

NJBoricua75

Member

Re: Lets fill up those fios gaps first,

said by onionbelter2 :

Like in the new york city area, then start thinking ahead. As it is, it's all a pipe dream. Talk about counting your chickens b4 they hatch lol.
Yup. Most people can't even get the service and to make matters worse, they already slowed deployment.

Verizon targets these high income areas. Meanwhile, 80 year old Joe Schmoe in a mansion in Alpine, NJ doesn't give a rats a$$. He still has that C-Band dish out in his yard that was installed 20-30 years ago and is doing just fine with his landline. To them, it's a "me too" product and they're right.
sameshtdd
join:2006-01-04
Teaneck, NJ

sameshtdd

Member

IPTV reason to upgrade?

Wouldn't these speeds have to be shared with your TV service also since FiOS wants to go to an all IPTV system?

••••

meh37II
@verizon.net

meh37II

Anon

OK...

everyone who can't get any broadband yet, raise your hand... anyone?... Bueller?... oh, right, you guys don't get to BBR all that much, do you.

And, oh yeah: hey, Verizon, where's that 5/2 tier for $30?
Mordhem
Love it, Hate it.
join:2003-07-10
Baltimore, MD

Mordhem

Member

Some did not want to reinvest in their network?

Some people are so stupid, apparently some investors apparently wanted verizon to be simply ran out of business. But then again thats why they are investors instead of being CEO's of large company's. I have some stock in comcast but you don't see me crying and complaining that the company is spending money on network upgrades.

Then again I guess investors wanted them to keep abusing the network that they did not need pay for by doing rate hikes and all other kinds of bs they do to abuse their customers.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

1 recommendation

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Re: Some did not want to reinvest in their network?

that is because too many investors want their money NOW!!!, like little babies in the sandbox they want it right away. not too many investors it seems go for the long haul.
majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Medford, NY

1 edit

majortom1029

Member

hmm

How much of their network ae they going to sell off to install this 10 gig service.

•••••
beadtmdc
join:2009-10-01
England

1 edit

beadtmdc

Member

I've been waiting

I've been waiting for that CRAP called FIOS to be available in my area since 2005, so that means that the 10 Gbps will be available in 2050 or later?
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

1 recommendation

tmc8080

Member

more details please

I'd like to know if this is 10gbits per port or per node?
Still, most of these companies are kinda afraid of the applications customers will use 100/100, or any symmetric bandwidth above 20 megabits upload for anyhow. The amound of VIDEO allegedly pirated these days is staggering, imageing when the spigot of REAL next gen symmetrical bandwidth is AFFORDABLE (ie 100/100 for maybe $75 per month, or less UNBUNDLED, no contract required). Unless these companies start lowering the price of bandwidth tiers, a 10gbits connection can run you a mortgage payment ($1500+ a month, and that's only when you buy the phone line, and/or cable-tv too haha).

•••

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

1 recommendation

cableties

Premium Member

Because we're abandoning our DSL customers!

Nice Verizon.
Brag about technology useless to 80% of your customers.
But fail at replacing your copper infrastructure.

I wish the Verizon execs would be forced to live on dialup and no wireless nearby.

Can you hear me now?

Enjoy the Snow Easterners!!!

Bill Neilson
Premium Member
join:2009-07-08
Alexandria, VA

Bill Neilson

Premium Member

Re: Because we're abandoning our DSL customers!

said by cableties:

Nice Verizon.
Brag about technology useless to 80% of your customers.
But fail at replacing your copper infrastructure.

I wish the Verizon execs would be forced to live on dialup and no wireless nearby.

Can you hear me now?

Enjoy the Snow Easterners!!!
+1

Meeks
@comcast.net

Meeks

Anon

No soup for j00!

Take a good look, rural America. Yet another product you'll never see!
WA_Resident
join:2009-12-12

WA_Resident

Member

Re: No soup for j00!

said by Meeks :

Take a good look, rural America. Yet another product you'll never see!
You sure?........This rural area of Washington State has had fiber optic connections since 2000, it even had TV and phone service along with the fastest internet in the USA!
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