 
MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC |  Call Centers Suck
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need_clue
@charter.com
| Re: Call Centers Suck I agree. But this story does not break and real news of what it's like to work in a call center. It's been that way for years. I really can't stand when people who work in call centers b1tch and moan so much. Don't like it? Go something else. Problem is, many of these people aren't cut out to do much more. | |
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TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
 ·Sprint Broadband D..
| Re: Call Centers Suck Perhaps they complain because they know that these are bullshit metrics to create bullshit reasons for very real employment terminations.
Nobody likes being forced to be a drone.
So share with us: are your "insights" based upon personal experience working in a call center, supervising in a call center, managing a call center or centers, or did you just read something about call centers on teh intertubes and thus, can opine at length? | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Call centers are driven purely by metrics and deliverables. There's little technical advice that isn't scripted in a call center.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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TPAC_123
@telepacific.net
| I agree I worked for ATT DSL support they too had stupid restrictions that really screwed up the good tech's they had their.. but damn Verizon is doing tooo much with this Outstanding crap. Oh well, that's why I have to agree that Call Centers SUCK!!! | |
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| BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast Formerly ..
| said by MattE  :This is why, even at IBM where I worked, true technical people don't last in a call center environment. It's all about the numbers, not about the quality. That is why I didn't last long in the Sun call center. I was to technical and just took the service road out , I moved off to level 2 engineering in 3 weeks. I couldn't stand the meet the numbers attitude and rather spend time on site with customers who needed help.
I loved going site to site to help set up boxes and help fix the problems.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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| chrisbmoore
join:2003-08-28
Frederick, MD
 ·DIRECTV
·Comcast
| Re: This story is outstanding. I used to work for Wells Fargo home mortgage and its the same story in all call centers. If you don't bring in the true numbers and you don't do what their rulebook says in terms of not forgetting to say certain things such as our old saying "this call may be recorded for quality assurance", you immediately fail the call. Regardless of how you helped the customer that was it. I ultimately was fired for having calls which were too short. They told me that I was hanging up on the customers and not solving issues appropriately, but if they really listened to the calls, which they don't, they'd have found I did indeed solve the customers issue in a smaller amount of time. The same thing happened to six others in that call center in that same week. We all considered filing suit, but for what? We didn't want our jobs back after being treated that way and the money would be little consolation in light of having a termination on your record. In the end we all pledged to simply share our stories with everyone so that the company would lose business and it worked. | |
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FormerAgent
@optonline.net
 from:
TK Junk Mail
| Call center "quality" That is correct. If you call someplace and are annoyed with the agent repeating your name over and over again, its not because they're trying to annoy you, its because they're forced to. At any time there could be someone listening live or recording the call to review later.
The agent on the phone has to follow a script like the following:
1. Greeting (Thank you for calling...)
2. Offer assistance (How can I help you...)
3. Re-state the issue (I understand that your problem is...)
4. Assurance of help (I can certainly assist you with that.)
5. Recap (So to recap we you called for...)
6. Offer further asssitance (Is there anything else...)
7. Upsell additional products (Before you go...)
8. Closing (Thank you for calling...)
While at the same time using the caller's name at least twice on the call. Its to make the caller feel all warm and fuzzy.
You can thank a company called BPA for this. They're one of the largest firms that are pushing call centers to adopt their "quality" standards. It doesn't matter what the agent actually does with the call (ie actually fix the problem) as long as they say the magic words they get a good quality score. Satisfying the customer, resolving the issue, being efficient doesn't matter if the magic words aren't said.
Don't like that? Don't take it out on the agent. They're doing the best they can in the environment they work in. Ask to speak to a supervisor and tell them that you don't like their fake call "quality" standards. Even better write a letter to the company. | |
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Luker3
@vt.edu | rediculous It is more important to have people with communication skills working, but what they are doing is ridiculous. They need the cross between knowledge and communication, not communication and advertising. | |
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| jocy
join:2008-02-20 | Re: rediculous communication skills???
how about this" rediculous" word?
 make sure you know what you're talking about.. | |
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Luker3
@vt.edu | Re: rediculous Yeah, I literally hit post and saw my mistake. Since I post anon, because I am lazy, I couldn't correct it. | |
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Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·FrontierNet Intern..
·Dish Network
| That's stupid... What company would care about those small phrases if you have great techs who can keep customers happy and fix problems? Company policies I feel should be revised to not need those small things to replace great tech support. Overall, I haven't had many problems with Verizon tech support, even managed to get some sites off of a Verizon blacklist one time. | |
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| DSL Oberst
join:2001-11-29
| Re: That's stupid... said by Smith6612 :What company would care about those small phrases if you have great techs who can keep customers happy and fix problems? IBM. HP. Earthlink. Kodak Business Systems. Web.com. Savin Copiers.
I any technical call center environment, it is not about you as a person. It's not about your skills. It's not even about the customer. It's about Making The Numbers, those numbers being set by people who have never been in a call center environment their entire life.
That's it. Nothing else. | |
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chrisbmoore
join:2003-08-28
Frederick, MD | ridiculous Now the real problem for this tech is probably him losing his job for revealing "internal company policies". | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| VZW CEO Moves to VZ Nothing Changes with CS. It's sad to see that Mr Strigl who championed customer service and reliability at Verizon Wireless has become a quiet caretaker for Verizon Corporate. Instead of demanding better of the massive company it seems that the status quo is all he's ever going to accomplish there.
I guess it's his time to earn a golden parachute before VZ takes over VZW and destroys what's good at that company.
Plus you have to love all the self denial of a company that rejected the iPhone. The voyager was their pathetic answer to a phone that is clearly going to be eating their numbers for some time to come.
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Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net | |
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OceanaJones
join:2004-10-18
Suffolk, VA
| Big companies go Bankrupt This is why large businesses go broke. They don't have a clue what the customer wants or needs. They are aloof to the things that leave a lasting negative impression of the company on the customer, like long hold times. support people you can't understand. Support people that are NOT subject matter experts and cannot fix your problem. Instead they grade their people on piddly ass crap that don't mean beans to anybody but a supervisor or CEO nothing. | |
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Post Verizon
@bellsouth.com
| Tales from the Inside I was a manager at one of the Verizon call centers, well it was an outsource company called PRC. It was all about the numbers, 15min AHT, 85% QA, 80% FCR, all of these were almost impossible since the Verizon client would keep demanding more about outstanding verbiage, blah blah blah.
I personally had to fire 6 employees in a month because they missed their QA goal 5 times in a 90 day period when we were constantly getting changes to the quality process, in some cases daily.
Its a crap client, crap service, and really crappy to their customers...and I was on the business DSL. | |
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TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ | Re: Tales from the Inside Were there feather merchants from some management consultancy that tracked this sort of stuff in the call center a lot? If so, they would have a vested interest in making sure that their metrics were enforced with an iron fist. | |
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same thing
@verizon.net
| cable will compete, eventually.. once docsis 3.0 starts ramping up some real speed.. there won't be much difference.. verizon won't be able to have smug complacency as they do now in cherry picked fios footprint. all the customer service nonsense they're pulling now will come back to haunt them as they lose FIOS customers to cable all over again just as they do with POTS customers now. | |
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tater_gunz
Shoot to kill
Premium
join:2003-08-22
Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable
| What do you expect? These outsourced call centers most likely follow mandates given to them by executives with a background in *sales* rather than actual technical minded folks.
Put salesmen at the helm and this is what you get.
- Tate
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Happiness is an OC-768 in your basement... | |
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| lcjawhit
join:2006-09-16
Keller, TX
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: What do you expect? I worked in the "Business" support center in Southern California before they outsourced it. I did that for 2 years. Then I moved to the NOC. I needed to do that at the time to get to where I am now. Tier I is a stepping stone to Tier II. If you have the tools and talent. Everyone has to start somewhere... | |
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charterlol
@telus.net | Yep nothing new here Work for charter HSI support and in attitude in our call centre is sales before technical support... I'm sure everyone can see how that turns out. Charter in last place in all forms of customer service. BUT WE SURE CAN SELL YOU THINGS lol... | |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| Unfortunately In my experience most people that whine about the metrics in a call center are the people that can't make it.
Realistic Metrics are important, call centers have budgets too and need handle Time metrics to figure out staffing, in a large center a 30 second per call swing can cause the most amazing issues.
Call centers are stepping stones...I know of many talented people that worked in a center and got important experience that now earn 6 figures.
If you cant stand the heat get out of the fire.
Hob
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"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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The Zune Lune
@verizon.net
| Re: Unfortunately Spoken like a true call center manager....
I have done call center training and I am amazed at the degree of multi-tasking most call center reps are required to perform. They are checking three systems simultaneously, trying to decide how to up sell the customer, take care of the customer's need, hit all of the points on their contact criteria list, all while answering stupid IM's from their supervisor.
I absolutely believe in measurements - but make sure those measurements are created by someone who understands the job. Far too often they are created because someone read a book they picked up at the airport or because of a new buzz word in corporate America. The measurements need meaning. | |
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factchecker
@cox.net
| said by hobgoblin :In my experience most people that whine about the metrics in a call center are the people that can't make it. Or realize that most metrics are artificial, with little basis on how long tasks actually take to complete or with little consideration for the troubleshooting process. I agree with your comment on realistic metrics, but time limits on calls, etc. don't always work.
I have never worked in a call-center and never could because I know that troubleshooting is a skill that can't be squeezed into a predetermined time limit. Many a time I've gone to a client or started working with a client remotely on a task that I thought would only take ten minutes, but after digging deeper into the issue, spent an hour or two on it cleaning up things and correcting seemingly unrelated issues.
And of course, troubleshooting aside, some customers are more work than others. When I call clients and try to talk them through things that need to be done (reboot, power down, check cables), there are some who can do it quickly and there are some who take more time than others. | |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| Re: Unfortunately "Or realize that most metrics are artificial, with little basis on how long tasks actually take to complete or with little consideration for the troubleshooting process. I agree with your comment on realistic metrics, but time limits on calls, etc. don't always work."
Of Course they need to be realistic and mostly in the centers I have worked in they are.
"I have never worked in a call-center and never could because I know that troubleshooting is a skill that can't be squeezed into a predetermined time limit."
No disrespect intended but how can you comment on something that you have never experienced. Not every call is the same, some are long...some are short...some are exactly right. You can not give an agent carte blanche to just take as much time as they want. You have to instill a sense of urgency and structure to the call. Some can do this others whine.
Hob
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"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Unfortunately said by hobgoblin :Of Course they need to be realistic and mostly in the centers I have worked in they are. What is more expensive? Fixing something the first time or multiple calls for the same problem? | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Patriot Media
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Unfortunately said by moonpuppy :said by hobgoblin :Of Course they need to be realistic and mostly in the centers I have worked in they are. What is more expensive? Fixing something the first time or multiple calls for the same problem? I had to call several times to fix an issue, which each time the rep seemed it was more important to end the call, then fix my problem. Hint: the customer doesn't care about metrics they want there problem solved. Something most call centers manager, dont realize. I quit my job at a call center after 3 months. Because it was a completely dysfunctional enviroment.
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“Say no to fear. Don’t let anxiety crush your life. Live life free and unfettered.”
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| Re: Unfortunately "I quit my job at a call center after 3 months. Because it was a completely dysfunctional enviroment."
3 months is hardly experience to comment on what Call center managers understand.
But thanks.
Hob
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"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| "What is more expensive? Fixing something the first time or multiple calls for the same problem?"
You can do both...and many do.
Or you can piss and whine, as some do.
Hob
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"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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| | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Unfortunately said by hobgoblin :"What is more expensive? Fixing something the first time or multiple calls for the same problem?" You can do both...and many do. Or you can piss and whine, as some do. Hob Obviously not since people complain about tech support to where the ratings aren't that good. | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Patriot Media
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by hobgoblin :"What is more expensive? Fixing something the first time or multiple calls for the same problem?" You can do both...and many do. Or you can piss and whine, as some do. Hob and then they go to your competitor.
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“Say no to fear. Don’t let anxiety crush your life. Live life free and unfettered.”
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| | | jazzmess
join:2007-03-02
Irving, TX
| hobgoblin, if you're earning 6 figures now, then it's been some time since you actually dealt, as a CSA, with call metrics. Probably when you were taking calls, metrics WERE realistic. And I can rightfully complain about metrics, because I always make mine; of course, it's at the cost of the customer. The people who are supervisors or managers over me would never be able to handle the tasks and metrics that I am asked to handle. When they were working as CSAs, their job was amazingly simple. The fact that they, like you, sneer when I try to tell them they're being foolishly unrealistic and they're just going to increase turnover more (which is already a problem) just goes to show that they have no grasp on reality. | |
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funchords
Robb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Hillsboro, OR
·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Skype
·Comcast
| said by factchecker :
I have never worked in a call-center and never could because I know that troubleshooting is a skill that can't be squeezed into a predetermined time limit. Many a time I've gone to a client or started working with a client remotely on a task that I thought would only take ten minutes, but after digging deeper into the issue, spent an hour or two on it cleaning up things and correcting seemingly unrelated issues.
You, my friend, could really benefit from working in a call center. Not only will they break you of that bad habit quickly, you'll understand why it is important to your customers'/employers' confidence that you do so.
While learning this skill does improve on handling time (which call-center pencil-sitters love), it is beside the point. As an IT consultant, that skill becomes an incredibly powerful tool in your toolbox.
IMHO
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
"We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report. | |
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| DSL Oberst
join:2001-11-29
| said by hobgoblin :In my experience most people that whine about the metrics in a call center are the people that can't make it. O RLY?
Problem: A client calls in regarding his new copier. He cannot get it to keep an IP address and once this issue is resolved, must be led through an install of the drivers for printing, scanning, and electronic faxing (different drivers for each) on the 5 different computers that make up the network. No, drivers cannot be shared - will be conflicted. Separate install on each machine.
Your Goals On This Call:
- Say the client's full name at least twice.
- Verify account information and pass security.
- Perform troublshooting and resolve the client's issue.
- Attempt to upsell the client to one of the add-on products.
- Give a full closing script.
- Log full notation.
- Achieve TOTAL CUSTOMER SATISFACTION; the client MUST be happy when he gets off the phone or this results in a Quality Assessment Fail.
- Do this in 5 minutes or less. Going over 5 minutes results in a Quality Assessment Fail.
You're timed. Go. | |
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Crazyf00L
Glorified Version of a Pellet Gun
join:2002-11-04
Coudersport, PA
clubs:
| In my experience the metrics were not incredibly hard to achieve in most aspects of technical support.
A reboot is the most key function when troubleshoooting in order to provide the technician with the most accuarate data. If you explain to the customer you are not trying to fix with a reboot, but rather gathering information to resolve the issue, they are usually more open to a reboot.
I am sure there are people that "cheat" to make metrics, but there will be quite a few that meet them with technical knowledge and good phone skills. My advice would be to find these people, study them, and modify your own technique.
I also found that the people who complained the most about the metrics instead of finding more efficient ways to handle a call, were usually the ones who spent the most time in the call center instead of getting promoted.
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"The duty of youth is to challenge corruption."
~ Kurt Cobain | |
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tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY | metrics? do these metrics also include SCREWING UP THE BILL IN VERIZON'S FAVOR????
That's far from outstanding, that's CRIMINAL... worthy of a class action lawsuit! | |
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funchords
Robb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Hillsboro, OR
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
·Comcast
edit:
March 13th, @09:33AM
| Call Centers Suck^H^H^Hick It's amazing how many service corporations miss the point that Customer Support is their corporation, as far as their consumers are concerned. To the customer, the service is often a commodity that anyone could provide.
Attempts to brand the product generally provide no real loyalty. Attempts to lock in the customer by artificial means such as product-locking (shamelessly known as "revenue locks") or long contracts are NOT good ideas, they're warning signs. After all, happy customers don't leave. (As a customer, paying that "break contract" fee is the ultimate final kick in the balls -- if you think I'll be back after that, you're on crack!)
Customer loyalty is built on good service after the sale. For a service like Broadband, Cable TV, or Telephone, Customer Support is where it's at. It will make or break a company.
Companies: If the average tenure of a CS employee is less than a year, if you pay them less than your cleaning crew, if your supervision involves a call-rating scheme that never answers the question about whether or not the "customer" received "support" on your "customer support" line, if you impose work-rules better suited for outlining conduct at a junior high school, or if you constantly remind them that they are one warning away from being replaced by the next guy who can fog a mirror -- then exactly who are you trusting your customers to?
Not that I'm complaining. Some of the best and brightest that I've hired have come from your call centers. I still keep in touch with many of them, who generally are breaking six-figures in "Fortune 500" companies. My next crop of best and brightest aren't the guys you see in their second year of sitting on your phone bank, conforming to your "call path" and coming back from their "smoke breaks" at precisely 6 minutes and 50 seconds every day. No, they're the guys struggling with your call-scores and yet use their breaks to soak up your training and despite all of your obstacles (and even warnings to stop), they somehow figure out a way to actually support your customers and SOLVE their calls. (Meanwhile, they're keeping an eye on the door marked EXIT.)
Offer me 6 guys like that; versus 6 CS or EE PhD NCGs; I'll take the 6 phone support guys in a heartbeat.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
"We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report. | |
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VZ is the devil
@cox.com
| VZ and VZW scare me I worked for VZW for almost three years. I have found that the numbers are best suited to giving disciplinary action when not necessary. Some of the best call center reps get frustrated and leave. This really affects the customer because it leaves them with some drone that just reads off a script and does not care about the customer what so ever. Furthermore the company loses customers and wastes money on employing people to police the call center. This just shows how much management does not want to get into the fire and help the company make positive changes. | |
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| jazzmess
join:2007-03-02
Irving, TX
| Re: VZ and VZW scare me said by VZ is the devil :
I worked for VZW for almost three years. I have found that the numbers are best suited to giving disciplinary action when not necessary. Precisely. They're a method to intimidate and control employees. And eventually, I believe they'll be an excuse to ship all those jobs overseas. | |
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disc
join:2005-12-31
Raleigh, NC
| calls with customer service hell = job hell = name your own Why should we expect anything more from calls with customer service? And yet we do. Not all that different than expecting more from our jobs I guess. Or product gratification. Or politicians as saviors. Or ... etc.
At least we have these web sites to bitch and get it out of our system  | |
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ender7074
join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO | Same all over Sounds just like how working at Charter in their call center was. The stupid call metrics, losing technical people to idiots that can barley read a script, and having a horrible phone system. De'ja vous. | |
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f1ip
join:2003-10-24
TX
| . I used to do VZ DSL support few years back.
One of the tricks we did to get below the handle time average is to ask for a call back number then call the customer back. Outgoing calls weren't counted.
Some other techs would ask people to disconnect their phone lines to reseat the cord without reminding them or asking if they are calling from another line. This of course make a nice quick call.
Their quality requirements were a little too much, sometimes its hard to fit more words between Hi and Bye. Hell they even want you to say the whole spill even though the caller hung up right after answering the call.
this was contracted thru Telvista also (mainly supported the ex-GTE in the NorthEast until they migrated to DHCP which added the rest of the country.) | |
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ispgeek
join:2006-02-16
| My two cents on this issue... Metrics and adherence standards are a great way to increase productivity and also gauge performance when utilized correctly. The problem is that you cannot assign an average to certain types of calls especially technical calls where the general public is concered. Where it may work well in a credit card customer service department it fails horribly for a technical support line and always has (guys this is nothing new....they have been trying to find the magic support call numbers for 20 years and still haven't done it). Most technical environments finally figure it out after a couple of years of stupidity and finally go back to the proper way of doing things. Especially those managed by well seasoned professionals who come from a technical background. The problem is that we seem to have had a recent bumper crop of managers migrating from the general customer service to technical call center environments and they are applying the only thing they know to the job....give it time...upper management will finally take notice (because you can only blame things on the numbers for so long before it becomes painfully obvious its the not the numbers...it's the manager).
This tidbit of insight comes from almost 24 years in the technical support environment as staff and management (they say we have a useful life of 5....guess I'm doing something right because I'll retire doing what I love). As for Verizon and the way they treat their employees....hey....what do you expect from Verizon....this is nothing new and trust me...they will be the last to figure it out (if they figure it out at all). | |
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Verizon Support Rep's Tale From The Inside
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