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story category Verizon: Metered Broadband Is Coming
As long as consumers are stupid enough to allow it...
04:14PM Tuesday Sep 29 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: business · bandwidth · Op/Ed · net-neutrality · Verizon FIOS · Verizon Online DSL
Tipped by needforspeed59 See Profile
There's not a broadband provider out there who wouldn't instantly begin billing you by the byte if they thought you (the consumer) would sign off on it. Unfortunately for them, Time Warner Cable's recent PR disaster illustrated that consumers aren't sold on low caps and high overages when broadband delivery costs continue to drop. Many customers may be stupid, but they can apparently read an ISP's 10-K form, which shows that flat-rate billing provides broadband operators with very healthy profits.

There's only one way that the broadband industry is hoisting metered billing on a wary public, and that's if all broadband carriers embrace the idea at once. Since most broadband users only have the choice of one or two carriers, if the industry made a collective shift to per-byte billing there's very little consumers could do about it. With AT&T, Comcast and Time Warner Cable all either engaged in metered billing trials or consistently thinking about it, that leaves Verizon standing in the way of the ultimate investor pipe dream: billing you by the byte.

Right now, the competitive threat of uncapped FiOS acts as a deterrent to companies in Verizon's territory eager to cap or meter. Verizon has consistently told us they have no plans for metered billing, though they've been careful to use vague language that left the door open to the possibility. Back in May the company's CEO strongly hinted at a metered future, and today Verizon CTO Dick Lynch gave investors the strongest hint yet (see Telephony Online and GigaOM) that a per-byte future awaits you:
When asked how Verizon would meet the burgeoning demand for bandwidth for Internet video and other services, Lynch admitted "the concept of a flat-rated infinitely expanding service for everyone just won�t work." "We are going to reach a point where we will sell packages of bites," (sic) Lynch said. "Now I�m not announcing a new pricing plan. But we have already gone this way in wireless because that is where the resource is most constrained."
It's pretty clear right now that Verizon's primarily interested in making sure that net neutrality rules don't prohibit creative pricing models (not that the industry has presented any), but it's also pretty clear they're interested. For now Verizon will use all that uncapped GPON capacity to sock it to cable competitors. But eventually, execs like Lych will realize that the only way Verizon can retain the kind of power they're used to in an evolved broadband ecosystem is by creating artificial scarcity and squeezing the bandwidth pipe.

It's not a matter of if, but a matter of when. And when Verizon decides to fully embrace metered billing, watch out. While Time Warner Cable flubbed their attempt to ransack your wallet like a randy teenager over-eagerly fumbling with consumer bra straps, Verizon, who's a little more experienced in nickle and diming, will make no such mistakes. Verizon's shown they're a lobbying, PR and spin juggernaut, and if anyone can convince American consumers that paying already very profitable companies more money for less product is wonderful and fair, Verizon can.

Related:
  1. Is Verizon Considering Metered Billing?
  2. Verizon Continues Proud History Of Denial
  3. AT&T: Google Is The Enemy Of Nuns
  4. Neutrality Rules Won't Impact Investment
  5. FiOS Deployment Slowing?
  6. Verizon's Hanging Up On Rural America
  7. Verizon's $1.99 Phantom Fee Returns
  8. Verizon Again Hints At Metered Billing
Forums » Verizon: Metered Broadband Is Coming
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brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL

haha

bye unlimited bandwidth
gorehound

join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME


1 edit

Re: haha

this will really suck for all of us except if you are rich or you are a large ISP.

I am poor and already pay slime warner 60 bucks a month for shoddy service.

i wish there was a way we could all do something about it but it is not to happen.the bigwig assholes will screw us all over in the end.

birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS

Re: haha

said by gorehound See Profile :

i wish there was a way we could all do something about it
Envision yourself not enslaved to the big ISP and start your own flat-rate ISP. Absent that, decide how you want to spend your broadband pennies and stick to your budget. Absent that, make friends with the people at the library, which will probably be the last bastion of (taxpayer-funded) free internet. Absent that, cut yourself free.

ISPs are salivating at the chance to go to per-byte billing but it will still be a couple years before it's ubiquitous. By then, there will be enough of a cultural paradigm shift that it will not be embarassing to admit at a cocktail party that you're still on dial-up. It will be chic, tres chic.

Dial-up has a smaller carbon footprint.

knightmb
Everybody Lies

join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·AT&T DSL Service

Re: haha

said by birdfeedr See Profile :

said by gorehound See Profile :

i wish there was a way we could all do something about it
Envision yourself not enslaved to the big ISP and start your own flat-rate ISP. Absent that, decide how you want to spend your broadband pennies and stick to your budget. Absent that, make friends with the people at the library, which will probably be the last bastion of (taxpayer-funded) free internet. Absent that, cut yourself free.
Did that back in 2006, still doing unlimited flat-rate service. Truthfully, most customers don't care because they just check e-mail, you tube, play WOW, and surf websites. I have a few technical customers that enjoy the service for unlimited bandwidth and they exercise it daily. But it's amazing how smooth a network can run when you plan ahead for all the p2p, tv steaming customers ahead of time.

I have some customers churning out 1,000 simultaneous connections 24/7 via BitTorrent but it's not even noticeable on the service because well, we planned for that. Our focus was so much on connections and capacity that most customers will choke their own machines before they could ever choke our routers. Which we do have some that do that because of the *cough* Microsoft limitations that built into their TCP/IP stack code. I have seen some Linux customers burn up over 10,000 simultaneous connections before. Kind of funny to see the load list in the router logs with one IP address listed 10,000 times, LOL.

Not a big player like AT&T or Comcast *yet*, but if this keeps up, being the only ISP in town that doesn't bill by the byte is even more word of mouth advertising from our customers.

Even have a project in the works to give away free Internet service at a much lower speed of course, but it would be kind of a free public Internet like a library but without time wasted on filters.
--
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cptmiles
Premium
join:2004-04-22
Swayzee, IN

Re: haha

Do you buy your backbone at a flat rate or burstable using the 95th percentile rule?

I know flat rate is how customers want it now, but if you had to bill on usage would you rather bill per byte or using the 95th rule?

(I have a small ISP as well)
lefty1

join:2002-10-25
Clay, NY

said by knightmb See Profile :

said by birdfeedr See Profile :
i wish there was a way we could all do something about it
most customers don't care because they just check e-mail, you tube, play WOW, and surf websites.
If bandwidth usage were that low, bandwidth caps wouldn't matter. I wish there were some way a user could view their up-to-the minute bandwidth usage for the month.

Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY

Great quoting

said by article :
"We are going to reach a point where we will sell packages of bites,”

But I want the whole sandwich!

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS

Re: Great quoting

said by Pathfinder See Profile :

said by article :
"We are going to reach a point where we will sell packages of bites,”

But I want the whole sandwich!
Don't be bytter.
AstroBoy

join:2008-08-08
Parkville, MD

said by Pathfinder See Profile :

said by article :
"We are going to reach a point where we will sell packages of bites,”

But I want the whole sandwich!
No problem, but it will cost extra! Oh, did you want fries with that? $$$

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

said by Pathfinder See Profile :

said by article :
"We are going to reach a point where we will sell packages of bites,”

But I want the whole sandwich!
then cough up some dough for the bread.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee

XBL2009
------

join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL

Stop bringing it up Karl

Seems like Karls harping on this subject is only going to create the problem he fears.

anaon1234895

@in.us

Re: Stop bringing it up Karl

sure and if maybe... if we all just shutup it will all go away...

Thats a pipe dream my friend....
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
If we do not continue to bring it up, they will just put it in place. Probably the only reason all the ISPs have not gone this route is due to the stink that is raised about it (usually here).

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME

Why stop at very healthy profits?

said by Karl Bode :
Many customers may be stupid, but they can apparently read an ISP's 10-K form, which shows that flat-rate billing provides broadband operators with very healthy profits.
If I was a CEO or business analyst for a company and saw the following:
1. Providing a 'premium' essentially unresticted service (in which customers are flocking to)
2. Need money to pay off all those fiber builds
3. Fact is that bandwidth is becoming a commodity
4. Investors ALWAYS want higher ROI

Wouldn't you implement billing by the byte as well ?
--
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction

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00000
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Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?

Short term gain over long term prosperity? I dunno. Seems like a bad idea. It will definitely breathe new life into muni broadband systems.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME


1 edit

Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?

If they set their rates 'decently' enough, then its not a big deal... yet (eg. Comcast set to 250GB?), vs. TWC was to set as low as 10-40GB. I 'personally' don't like caps/bill by the byte, etc. However, as always, these companies will set a 'value' to the consumption, and what was speed is now being converted to consumption.

Instead of Cable/TV offering 'faster tier' if you bundle (30/1Mbps is standard here on TWC with boost), they'll be offering double your allowable consumption.

If you get a DVR, HD, sports package,etc. You can have unlimited consumption.

--
Canada = Hollywood North

joetaxpayer
I'M Here Till Thursday

join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..

Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?

said by en102 See Profile :

If they set their rates 'decently' enough, then its not a big deal... yet (eg. Comcast set to 250GB?)

You think? The comcast board is full of complaints about the meter, as well as the cap. Even though it's maybe .1% who will exceed this cap, the complaints go right down to the guy who knows he's only using 50GB/mo.
nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
·ViaTalk
·Comcast

Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?

The guy who uses 50GB today - will use 500GB in a few years. With streaming HDTV and other forms of media shifting towards the internet, 250GB is going to look like nothing in no time.

Think about it like this:
Today's average consumption is 50GB, cap is 250GB.
In 2 years average consumption is 100GB, cap is still 250GB.
In 5 years average consumption is 500GB, cap is still 250GB so people get hit with bills twice the amount for "exceeding" the cap.

It's in essence a way for them to ensure today that in a few years they'll be able to hit a signficant amount of users with overage fees - without the negative publicity coming from per-byte billing, and without the regulatory headaches. In 5 years when the regulators come knocking on their doors they'll say "but we've been working like this for years!". It's sneaky, but that's what they're trying to do IMHO. Not a bad business plan at all, actually.

joetaxpayer
I'M Here Till Thursday

join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..

Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?

said by nitzan See Profile :

The guy who uses 50GB today - will use 500GB in a few years. With streaming HDTV and other forms of media shifting towards the internet, 250GB is going to look like nothing in no time.
Absent caps, there are the top few (the .1%) who use more than the bottom 50%. I'd expect that once the meter is available, those top .1% are savvy enough to trade off whatever the heck they are doing with the important stuff they'd like to keep doing.
I agree that we should expect the cap to be lifted, on some semi-regular basis.
I find it curious that when we talk taxes, the top .1% are vilified, everyone wants to tax them 1000% if we could, yet the top .1% of bandwidth users are heroes. As a ~40GB/mo user, I'm subsidizing them as are 99% of us. Let them pay their way.
nitzan
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join:2008-02-27
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Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?

said by joetaxpayer See Profile :

I agree that we should expect the cap to be lifted, on some semi-regular basis.
Do you seriously think they're going to raise the cap on a regular basis? or raise it at all? again- this is an easy way for them to pave the way for future overage charges for average users.

I find it curious that when we talk taxes, the top .1% are vilified, everyone wants to tax them 1000% if we could
Maybe YOU want to tax them 1000%. I think the top .1% should be paying exactly the same tax rates as you and me. They already pay millions (or more) in taxes as it is - and if you put too much tax burden on them they'll simply move their business elsewhere. You can't tax someone millions of dollars and expect them not to be able to creatively shift income around so it doesn't get taxed. For you and me it's not worth the trouble - for the upper .1% of taxpayers it very well will be if you tax them high enough.

aSic
application specific
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join:2001-05-17
Wakulla, FL
clubs:

said by morbo See Profile :

Short term gain over long term prosperity? I dunno. Seems like a bad idea. ...
Isnt that what the federal government has been doing for the past few months? They've set quite an example to live up to. These pesky corporations are just following the leader.
--
Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say.

heyitwrked08

@ameritech.net
"Short term gain over long term prosperity?"

Hey it worked REAL good the last 8 years of unfettered banking laws! Let's do it again!

(hmmm, secretly me thinks I better invest in dialup AOL stock)

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype

said by en102 See Profile :

3. Fact is that bandwidth is becoming a commodity
...that becomes cheaper to provide every year.

nukscull

@rr.com

Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?

It only becomes cheaper every year if you stop putting money into upgrading the infrastructure that provides the bandwidth.

After GPON, they're going to need 10GPON, then 100GPON. Those upgrades aren't free, and must be considered part of the bandwidth cost.

And that's not even including upgrading their backbone links to multiple 100Gbit connections to serve the 10GPON and 100GPON nodes.

The cost of bandwidth itself goes down (at a very slow pace recently) but the cost of upgrades to deliver more bandwidth to the end user does not go down, and is variable compared to bandwidth costs.

Trimline
Premium
join:2004-10-24
Orlando, FL
·Callcentric
·AT&T Southeast
·RoadRunner Cable

said by en102 See Profile :

said by Karl Bode :
Many customers may be stupid, but they can apparently read an ISP's 10-K form, which shows that flat-rate billing provides broadband operators with very healthy profits.
Wouldn't you implement billing by the byte as well ?
Looks good on paper, but as soon as you do, your customer base will go else where. That's the fallacy yet to be understood by the CEO.

I say let it fly, and let the chips fall where they may. Bet Microsoft or Google would LOVE to provide unlimited bandwidth.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME

Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?

Ahh - but go where ? Telco ISP or Cable ISP... they're both out there for the bottom line.
There's nothing out there to stop Google or Microsoft from providing bandwidth. They could have gone into wireless on the 700MHz spectrum if they wanted to.
--
Canada = Hollywood North

Murdoc

join:2009-02-08
Manitowoc, WI
·AT&T DSL Service
·Callcentric
·Comcast

said by en102 See Profile :

said by Karl Bode :
Many customers may be stupid, but they can apparently read an ISP's 10-K form, which shows that flat-rate billing provides broadband operators with very healthy profits.
If I was a CEO or business analyst for a company and saw the following:
1. Providing a 'premium' essentially unresticted service (in which customers are flocking to)
2. Need money to pay off all those fiber builds
3. Fact is that bandwidth is becoming a commodity
4. Investors ALWAYS want higher ROI

Wouldn't you implement billing by the byte as well ?
So bandwidth is gonna be traded and or invested on commodity market? I can see speculators driving that way up already! Where does bandwidth come from? The middle east? It can't be that scarce, or running out! Its just a greedy corporate money grab.
itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA

For #1 - a premium service that people are flocking to because there are no caps. I'm in the process of starting online backups for our computers. Guess what? By the time I'm done, I'll have close to a TB of data this month across FIOS. 100% legal, legit, and needed.

If they cap it, I'm gone. I'll do with dial up if need be.

chrisov

@centurytel.net

I currently run a business and would never charge more because I could, the only way I charge more is if the product or service improves. I believe this may be where we need to focus our efforts instead of Net Neutrality, since this would affect the web even more at the present time, perhaps incorporate it into the bill and get it signed anyways.

I am a big fan of letting a consumer do what they wish with their hardware and connections and would love to see large companies do the same. What right do we as a company have to tell the end user that they can't play that game because their hardware can't handle it or that their connection will be bogged down? We can inform them that it may not function properly, but that is the extent we can do as a company.

Let the net be free!

factcheckers

@bellatlantic.COM

hmmmmm

seems like the perfect business model if I have ever seen one. Yeah, I use the internet everyday all day for $40/month and someone next door checks email twice and pays $40/month...the current system makes total sense Karl. You may be the biggest jackass on the internet

Koil
Premium
join:2002-09-10
West Columbia, SC
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: hmmmmm

Do you think that you're going to pay for what you use?? Please. The base cost whether you use 2 "bites" or less is still going to be $20 - $30 bucks, and upwards from there. Not to mention that the low cap scenario is just a pure $$$ maker.

I'm not saying that metered billing can't work, but please...think with your head about how this will really go down, and know that $$$$ talks.

God, I hope there is some type of competition that can spawn from this, and take these dicks down.
--
Let us so live that when we come to die, even the undertaker will be sorry. -Mark Twain

My Blog - Raising Connor - »raisingconnor.blogspot.com/ - updated 3/11/09

factcheckers

@bellatlantic.COM

Re: hmmmmm

First off you have no idea what the pricing model may or may not be, and from I can see just have 2 ISPs in my town has driven the price down so much so that I basically get each on taking off the price each year if I switch... so price is not even an issue yet... but as revenue models change so with the way we pay for service...

Oh and if you want to look at it from a realistic perspective - then how come ELECTRICITY AND HEAT are billed as METERED services ----- HMMMMMMM.... oh wait well that is different because of BLAH, BLAH, BLAH... no matter what the argument is all this site will do is bitch and moan about whatever it WANTS and not what the businesses who need to run the businesses need...
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

Re: hmmmmm

Isn't your ISP verizon?
Wait, yes...
Shill!
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

For one thing, you control how much electricity and heat is used. With data, you do NOT directly control what you use. For example, there are ads pushed to you on a web page. There are commercials pushed to you on Hulu, etc. There is spam sent to you. There are DOS attacks and other thing that will eat your bandwidth.

The current way of doing things is just fine. You guys are going to kill the goose that lays the golden egg if your not careful.

Mrq5
The Fab Four

join:1999-08-21
Warren, MI


2 edits

Re: hmmmmm

said by jjeffeory See Profile :

For one thing, you control how much electricity and heat is used. With data, you do NOT directly control what you use. For example, there are ads pushed to you on a web page. There are commercials pushed to you on Hulu, etc. There is spam sent to you. There are DOS attacks and other thing that will eat your bandwidth.

The current way of doing thing Is is just fine. You guys are going to kill the goose that lays the golden egg if your not careful.
Actually this is a very important point that needs attention. We cant control all bandwidth to our computers via the Internet. This will certainly put a big dent into adverstising and other Online revenue (coincidently this would make the ISPs very happy in itself).

With this said I do feel a little of the ISPs pain...choke choke, I cant believe I just said that. Billions are being made via the Internet and ISPs just want more of the pie and not be the only one's stuck with the dirty work (lower profit margins, huge investments, tons of support staff, etc...) of providing the core network. Certainly I dont favor metered use but Im inclined to think that I would not be impacted since I am not a heavy downloader. If it must be metered it will only work if its seen to cut down on abuse, period. Maybe set caps during peak hours only. Meaning if you go over 250GB/Month during the time period of 5pm-11pm would you face overage charges. Any time spent online outside of these hours would not count towards the limit. Much like how the phone companies provide Unlimited use during non-peak hours. Just an example idea that could be tweaked since I am awaare there are abusers downloading 24/7.... but does this really negatively impact network performance outside of peak hours? Im not sure.

Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Sarasota, FL
clubs:

said by factcheckers :

First off you have no idea what the pricing model may or may not be
Neither Comcast nor TimeWarner reduced their prices 1 cent when they introduced caps. The neighbor who checks email twice a month is still paying as much as before. What in the world would make you think anyone would pay LESS under a new metered plan with Verizon - the kings of nickle and dime EXTRA charges?

And yes, the members of this site will very likely continue to bitch and moan about the idea. The only question is, why are you here?
--
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Karl Bode
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1 edit
seems like the perfect business model if I have ever seen one.
I bet you phone company employees say that to ALL the unreasonable business models, you handsome devil.
Yeah, I use the internet everyday all day for $40/month and someone next door checks email twice and pays $40/month...
The great "but it's only fair" argument (TM) only works if you're willing to charge the 2 e-mail a day user his or her fair share: about $5 a month. Which, you won't.
You may be the biggest jackass on the internet
Thank you!

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:
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Re: hmmmmm

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

seems like the perfect business model if I have ever seen one.
I bet you phone company employees say that to ALL the unreasonable business models, you handsome devil.
Yeah, I use the internet everyday all day for $40/month and someone next door checks email twice and pays $40/month...
The great "but it's only fair" argument (TM) only works if you're willing to charge the 2 e-mail a day user his or her fair share: about $5 a month. Which, you won't.
You may be the biggest jackass on the internet
Thank you!
They forgot to tell you Karl that being called a jackass is now a term of endearment!
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

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BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

said by factcheckers :

seems like the perfect business model if I have ever seen one. Yeah, I use the internet everyday all day for $40/month and someone next door checks email twice and pays $40/month...the current system makes total sense Karl. You may be the biggest jackass on the internet
Yeah except you assume that one ISPs go to metered billing that guy that only checks e-mailis going to get a reduced price. He isn't. He's still going to pay $40/month. YOU however will be paying more. It'd be different if he was going to only be charged $15 a month. Then metered billing would have some validity.

nukscull

@rr.com

said by factcheckers :

seems like the perfect business model if I have ever seen one. Yeah, I use the internet everyday all day for $40/month and someone next door checks email twice and pays $40/month...the current system makes total sense Karl. You may be the biggest jackass on the internet
Of course the current business model makes total sense. BECAUSE the person that only checks his email twice a day and pays $40/month to do it is EXACTLY the reason there shouldn't be caps with overage charges. Because the average user paying $40 a month isn't using anywhere near $40 worth of bandwidth.

I have seen a very large ISP's broadband residential customer average bits/second when averaged out over all customers from 2008. The average, 42kbit/sec. Yes, you read that right. No, I cannot tell you the ISP.

And it wasn't a surprise to me at all when I saw the numbers. Because I have always known this was the case for the average user. Yes, there are probably times when that average users is watching videos or downloading something, and they certainly spike up to higher speeds. But you average out their usage for a whole year, and you get 42kbit/sec.

I'd rather the current business model continue, where the 42kbit/sec for $40 users are supplementing my well above average usage for $40 with no cap and no overage fee.

ISP's need to focus on killing off the users that go through 1TB or 2TB of data a month, those are the ones that hurt individual nodes. And no one is going to want those people as customers once they get them, unless those people are willing to pay a lot more for service.
WhatNow
Premium
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC

Re: hmmmmm

The report includes various other interesting tidbits, including the claim that real world ISP broadband speeds are often 50 percent to 80 percent slower than advertised speeds. The agency also notes that 1% of all users drive 20% of traffic and 20% of all users drive 80% of traffic.

From the FCC: We're Halfway Done with with the NBP article today.

There are set costs for equipment in the last mile which need to be covered but the 20% crowd are the ones that are driving the costs up. As this article or one of the posters the equipment limited the usage now nics are so cheap and servers at content providers feed it at next to nothing. When you have flat rate billing people will waste it. Gas is not flat rate but when it was $2 and went to $4 a lot of people found they did not really need that big SUV to just commute to work.

I would benefit if they had a low usage rate. Heck I could have doubled my usage under the very low TWC 40 Gig cap and still have come under the cap. If the ISP don't feel they have the money to spend then don't look for upgrades in the under served areas.
This crowd wants to pick and chose but it needs to be looked at as a whole. One size does not work.

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
·Skype

Interesting imagery.

"While Time Warner Cable flubbed their attempt to ransack your wallet like a randy teenager over-eagerly fumbling with consumer bra straps"

Sometimes I have to wonder how Karl comes up with these witticisms and analogies. He must read a lot of, ahem, romance novels or something. . .
--
Tradition: Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid. --despair.com

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Re: Interesting imagery.

I am one of the leading contributors to Fabio fan fiction on the Internet!

cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
·Verizon FIOS

If I had grand kids...

"That's right. Back in 2010, we used to have 50MB/sec download, unlimited...we could download music, and videos, and bittorrent illegal warez, and even get movies right to our gaming consoles!"

"Grandpa, everybody knows that you aren't allowed to download anything anymore. Not without credits. Silly grandpa..."

"Oh, and bread was only $1.25 a loaf back then!"
--
Splat
neftv

join:2000-10-01
Broomall, PA
·Broadvox Direct

Re: If I had grand kids...

Fios should be left alone with just the per month fee. No-one mentioned that how Fios was started with government money to begin with at least the 2 some billion from Pennsylvania. So it was funded and built out with State money. I am happy to pay for S44.95 for my 20/5 connection not don't go adding other fees. Leave me alone.
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA

Re: If I had grand kids...

You're saying Pennsylvania dollars went to New Jersey and Oregon? Interesting.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

said by neftv See Profile :

Fios should be left alone with just the per month fee. No-one mentioned that how Fios was started with government money to begin with at least the 2 some billion from Pennsylvania. So it was funded and built out with State money. I am happy to pay for S44.95 for my 20/5 connection not don't go adding other fees. Leave me alone.
VZ would be shooting themselves in the foot if they went metered on fios.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee

Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

said by cableties See Profile :

"That's right. Back in 2010, we used to have 50MB/sec download, unlimited...we could download music, and videos, and bittorrent illegal warez, and even get movies right to our gaming consoles!"

"Grandpa, everybody knows that you aren't allowed to download anything anymore. Not without credits. Silly grandpa..."

"Oh, and bread was only $1.25 a loaf back then!"
I miss being able to take my copy of Windows and be able to use it on another computer, and another and another. Only fair for what they charge for an OS.

Cjaiceman
Premium,MVM
join:2004-10-12
Parker, CO
·Comcast Workplace
·Comcast

said by cableties See Profile :

"That's right. Back in 2010, we used to have 50MB/sec download, unlimited...we could download music, and videos, and bittorrent illegal warez, and even get movies right to our gaming consoles!"

"Grandpa, everybody knows that you aren't allowed to download anything anymore. Not without credits. Silly grandpa..."

"Oh, and bread was only $1.25 a loaf back then!"
Your age is showing, you might want to cover that up!

richdelb
Go Hawks Go
Premium
join:2003-01-22
Algonquin, IL
·Comcast Formerly ..

Having it both ways?

This will solve "net neutrality" once and for all.

Bill like the REGULATED Electric, Gas, or Water Company.

ComEd doesn't tell me what I can or can't plug into my wall socket, so why should "ma bell?"

They bill a regulated rate, by the byte, and the CONSUMER decides what "appliances" they plug into the ISP.

Billing by the byte can work. Just regulate it like any Utility.

Then the ISP's can truly be "Dumb pipes" like they want to be...

Oh wait.... They don't want that do they....?
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Re: Having it both ways?

Where by the byte fails is that it is not related to any of the ISP's costs. Both hardware costs and transit cost are based on peak Mbps not GB/month. ANY downloading that an individual does during off peak hours incurs no additional costs for the ISP. The hardware needs to be there in order to handle the peak demand in the 5pm to 11pm (usually) hours. The same applies for transit costs.
rdmiller

join:2005-09-23
Richmond, VA

How many movies?

How many broadband movies do I have to watch each day to reach the current cable cap? Until we have reliable data on this, Karl can write all the articles he wants and no one will pay any attention.
amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:

Re: How many movies?

Not many. I and many others have posted the (very simple) math.

For ease of understanding, let's say a movie is 1GB.

1GB/day = 30-31GB in one month.

Add updates (OS/Anti-virus/etc. x 3 computers) at let's say, 100MB/month as a conservative estimate. Say 3 computers need a service pack - you're screwed.

Point is, it's a total sham. Karl also pointed out in his comment here that to be "fair" let's go ahead and charge some folks who BARELY use the 'net $5 if that's what it costs. Won't happen. There will ALWAYS be a baseline that is FAR beyond what it actually costs to deliver service, even after ROI has been met 10x over.

Further reading on the math, and my thoughts can be had here:
»Astoundingly Moronic
»Re: Sounds reasonable to me
»these aren't the internets you're looking for...

People are paying attention, even if some don't want to believe it...

Oh, and my favorite argument just in case nobody wants to read the 3rd link where I rant about this:

STOP upgrading speeds if capacity isn't there.
Leave speeds right where they are until capacity can keep up.
Simple argument that nobody dares touch.
Thing is, that's how things have traditionally moved to where they are today.

This 'metered' business is more a move to piss off people, side-step network neutrality, and make BANK than ANYTHING to do with true capabilities. IF it weren't, then leave speeds alone until it can be handled, growth included (which hasn't been that much in the past couple years - it's SLOWED according to this and other sites, except maybe Fios because they're expanding to new areas...).

They'd still make money hand over fist, and wouldn't piss of the netizens who don't deserve to be bent over like this.

Is there really any argument against that line of thought? If so, I'd really love to hear it.

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: How many movies?

said by amungus See Profile :

Not many. I and many others have posted the (very simple) math.

For ease of understanding, let's say a movie is 1GB.

1GB/day = 30-31GB in one month.
Actually a movie downloaded from XBL or Itunes or Amazon or PSN usually runs closer to 2 GB and if you want a 720P HD verison it's about 6 GB per movie.

whating 2 hours of Hulu a day at their LOW resolution is about 20 GB a month.
rdmiller

join:2005-09-23
Richmond, VA

Re: How many movies?

You mean I have to watch 30 movies a month! I can barely find two movies a month that I watch all the way to the end!
stunod2002

join:2003-11-07
Carol Stream, IL

Didn't we already do this once before?

Seems like this is the same pricing model employed during the ISDN days.. This didn't last as new technology came to be and pummeled it.

Just a thought, but I'd expect that the destruction to web based business like I-Tunes, Netfilx, Email, Any number of news outlets, etc.. will either kill this over time or keep it in check. Just think about it, If we have to pay for a song from I-Tunes and then also pay for the right to download it how many people are going to just not download that song? Apple alone could stand to loose a crap load of business and would certainly begin to stand up for the average consumer.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

Re: Didn't we already do this once before?

Right, we're already paying for the connection and speed. Why should we be paying for this again... Terrible pricing model.

SuperJoker

join:2005-11-21
Yermo, CA
Agreed, It's a stupid idea, But Verizon has a GREEDY CTO.
expert007

join:2006-01-10
Buffalo, NY

I'm fine

with metered billing...but

1) The meter better work correctly.

2) The price per byte/unit better not gouge.

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: I'm fine

said by expert007 See Profile :

with metered billing...but

1) The meter better work correctly.
unlikely

2) The price per byte/unit better not gouge.
Most likely they will gouge. Doubtfull they will only charge 10 cents per GB.
ShellMMG

join:2009-04-16
Grass Lake, MI
·Alltel Axess

Do you have a router? Are there others in your home who use the internet?

Meters. Are. EVIL. Period.

Nothing is more frustrating than a 7.5G average per month cap. It's worse if you have teenagers who like YouTube or more than one computer that requires software updates. Anyone who's lived with Wildblue or Hughesnet can tell you all about why you should ALWAYS fight the threat of a cap.

The ISPs are going to want to implement cappage sooner rather than later. If they get most of the country wired with cable or FIOS, THEN try to hit them with caps there will be a huge outcry when those capped bills arrive. You can't have a situation where most people are used to online gaming, downloading the latest episode of Glee and using VoIP on a constant basis, then slapping a cap on all of that. You think the public outcry over health care is loud? Just wait.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
Oh, and we better NOT be paying for their advertising, spam, etc...
old_wiz_60

join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA

Re: I'm fine

This will lead to a new round of ad blockers in web browsers and the advertisers won't be happy. tsk tsk.

Just think how unhappy the advertisers will be if not a single ad gets through to your screen!
GyroCaptain

join:2008-08-01

said by expert007 See Profile :

with metered billing...but

1) The meter better work correctly.

2) The price per byte/unit better not gouge.
Thats like saying, "well you can give it to me, but you better use lube!"

Bwhahaha! No lube for you! Next!
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY

monopoly part 2

Soon(er than you think) it will come time to break up the big 3 telecom companies: Verizon, At&t, and Comcast into itty bitty bits...
the first round was for Plain Old Telephone Service, this next round (was probably inevitable) will be for broadband.

Yes, it's a matter when, not if... but what it means is these companies will be broken down as they have too much control of the last mile. Alot of trust & faith was put in them and exclusions to competition made... (ie conditions of merger). Once that fundamental trust is broken, they no longer deserve either their A. Pole position lock on the last mile infrastructure, or B. Market size as a corporation. We will see which is option they like the least...

Maybe these 3 companies think consumers have been asleep as to the unfair business practices & anti-competitive nature of these companies, but they're not.. The tippng point will come when Verizon uses its market power to charge higher prices AND charge by the bit. Make no mistake, they put at risk their entire investment in FTTP on the line which is nearing 30 Billion and more contractual commitments made which are in process. There's more at stake than the ability to consume as much badwidth as one wants.. freedom to choose amongst providers was exchanged for good stewardship of the last mile.. for companies to limit, sell off (unprofitable ROI geographies), lobby away competition and other deceptive & anti-consumer practices they will have a reckoning coming sooner or later and will have to answer for these behaviors. The only difference is Comcast will be in the mix of regulation of the telcom industry as a major broadband player.. no longer are cable companies exempt from scrutiny as well.
axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX


4 edits

No no and no.

Emphatically NO!

My wife and I both work for the same employer. Think largest PC manufacturer on the planet. But my employer no longer gives us money for our net connection. With my wifes BUSINESS VPN usage we go well over the 250Gb Comcast cap with just her work traffic. (Shes a webmaster.) Then if I VPN work from home sometimes, or just play games over the internet along with 3 Tivos all with heavy users (kids) in my house with Netflix streaming and Amazon Unbox rentals, 1 PS3, 2 XBOX 360's, 1 Wii, 2 PSPs, 1 Nintendo DS, we sometimes hit around 350 - 400Gb /month.

So basically there is no option for me. Moving to a business line is about it and the price is astronomical compared to the Premium Triple-Play. So I am already paying a $300/month bill to Comcast.

How much more do these blood sucking leeches want? They are making a mint off of me already.

Overages will only cause me to unhook some of the devices from my home. So now these caps and overages are now not only hurting me but they are also going to hurt Tivo, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Slingbox, Netflix, Amazon, and others I'm sure I have forgotten, incomes from me using and buying from their online services, and even more importantly my employers productivity.

I just don't think an ISP can be anything other than a dumb pipe. To act any differently effects too many things.

Were I Tivo, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Slingbox, Netflix, Amazon, et all I would be fighting this tooth and nail. When us consumers have to not use CE devices just so I can avoid an ISP raping my wallet these companies profits are going to suffer. And guess what, those companies are also paying an ISP so I can get to their product. It just doesn't make any sense. Those companies paid good money for their internet connection (far higher than what I pay) so I can use their product. If users stop using those products due to these caps, were I one of those companies, I would be livid right now. (Just thought of one more industry who will suffer. The power company providing me power. If I have to unhook some of these devices because of the caps then they too are hurt.)

I am the perfect family of consumers. All of our net traffic is 100% legal, its all making money for the various companies products I have purchased. Yet my ISP is putting in place a system where everyone except the ISP looses something. What gives?

(P.S. I was just accepted for the OnLive beta as well. WTF are they going to do? Their whole business model is based on fast internet connections.)
amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:

Re: No no and no.

BINGO!

And in the not-too-distant-future, more and more households will catch up to this level of use if they aren't already.

Solution besides this 'metered' hogwash?

...Stop playing ignorant poor little ISP and quit upgrading 'speed' if you can't handle capacity...

Oh, and leave the internet the frak alone, please. These are most definitely not the droids they are looking for
dlewis23

join:2005-04-18
Boca Raton, FL

said by axiomatic See Profile :

How much more do these blood sucking leeches want? They are making a mint off of me already.
They want your $1.50 per GB over. lol. So with your ~100 GB over that add's another $150 to your already high bill.

The funny thing here is the web hosting industry which has always had strict bandwidth caps, and high overage charges for the most part is moving away from the model and regular ISP's are adapting there old model.

Comcast charges $1.50 per GB overage on there single network, one of my server providers charges 0.10 cents per GB overage and they have 9 providers they have to pay.

Another provider gives me 10TB with a server for $99 a month. And I can use every byte of that 10TB and they are never gonna complain. I found one where anyone can buy a 100 Mbps unmetered connection (33.3 TB) for only 129 bucks a month.

There is no bandwidth shortage, and there networks can take the usage as long as they do there normal upgrades over time.

Bandwidth caps is just an attempt by ISP's to hold off from doing upgrades, get some extra income, and and by some a way to cut down on some internet usage somewhat.

I have no problem with bandwidth caps, as long as the cap is fair. When a ISP provides a 20 Mbps connection but only gives 250 GB or less bandwidth per month thats just wrong.

They should a minimum provide 1/3 of the total bandwidth that connection is capable of. So if they sell a 10 Mbps connection then they should have a 1TB cap with it.

mod_wastrel

join:2008-03-28
·magicjack.com


3 edits

By the byte?

Buy the byte?

Buh-bye Verizon... buh-bye broadband.

Tell ya what... when all any ISPs start charging by the byte, then that's when we should start charging them by the byte for their use of public rights-of-way for laying their cables... yeah, that's the ticket! (usage based taxing: all monies going to implement and maintain [more] public APs at local libraries and such)

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC

Karl Bode's Word Poetry

"Time Warner Cable flubbed their attempt to ransack your wallet like a randy teenager over-eagerly fumbling with consumer bra straps..."

HA-ha-HA-ha-HA-ha-HA-ha-HA-ha!
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
·VOIPo

hmmmm

Could we be in the verge of an internet revolution? If everyone meters/caps, then smaller isps come and offer un-metered/unlimited bandwidth, even though it may not be as fast. Which would you go to for the 'same' price? A 4/2(just random numbers btw) for 40-ish or a 15/6 with 80GB starting at 40-ish and $1.00 for each GB after?

If only I were older.

Wizeguy

join:2008-08-23
Safety Harbor, FL

Re: hmmmm

I'm with you on that!!! I'd go slower, cheaper and as the Verizon trucks sweep my block give them the grand salute.

Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON

said by me1212 See Profile :

Could we be in the verge of an internet revolution? If everyone meters/caps, then smaller isps come and offer un-metered/unlimited bandwidth, even though it may not be as fast.
No. They do what happened up here, and get the regulators who are stocked full of former telco execs to force the indie ISPs to bill by the byte, too.

Broadband trends generally occur in Canada before they occur in the USA by 2-5 years. If what's going on up here is any indication, you're all fucked.
--
Give a man a hooker and he'll have fun for a night. Teach a man how to hire a hooker and he'll have fun for a lifetime.

GunKing

@selu.edu

Business model

If I were forced into a metered billing (This is in anticipation that the ISP doesn't let me stay grandfathered in) and were put under a cap of 100gb per month...doesn't that mean I am buying 100gb per month? So since I am buying 100gb per month, shouldn't the ISP roll over my unused bandwidth that I purchased or credit me on my next month's bill for the unused bandwidth?

Metered billing with a respectable "cap" isn't the end of all things as long as the pricing model that accompanies it is based in common sense and consumer goodwill. What cannot be tolerated is something ridiculous like a 10gb cap.

I very much agree with an early post about how companies' whose business models will be diminished if not outright destroyed should be on the side of us consumers instead of wallflowers.

bear73
Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies
Premium
join:2001-06-09
Grand Forks Afb, ND
·Midcontinent Commu..

Re: Business model

well, lets parlay that into a similar situation.... cellphones... how many providers "roll over" unused minutes? just 1! CAPS ARE BAD... METERED BILLING IS BAD.... the new world we are in depends on unlimited usage. to limit that will crush a Huge Swath of income for an innumerable number of companies.
--
If ya gotta go, Go with a SMILE!
»www.thereligionofpeace.com/

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype

The GigaOm piece has some warning signs

»gigaom.com/2009/09/29/metered-br···zon-cto/

Lynch’s comments came amid a broad discussion about net neutrality, notably how a carrier can manage its network and deliver quality applications without running afoul of the principles. Given the rise in high-bandwidth applications and services Lynch said, “We believe that you have to be allowed to have a level of service that is not on a public Internet. What you’re suggesting is different kind of IP service that’s not delivered over the public Internet and that needs to be part of the option set in the argument.”

While he admitted that there are legitimate fears around net neutrality that need to be addressed, he differentiated between the public Internet and the idea of services that will require more than a best effort attempt at delivery. However, he said, “There are services that will not be happy on the public Internet, and we don’t want to be in a place where we have to provide the public Internet as the only place to deliver those services.”
That's rather non-technical talk for the Chief Technology Officer at Verizon, but it smacks of the notion that Verizon wants to be able to prioritize their premium services over those on the general-purpose Internet.

That's just wrong. I want to access my general-purpose Internet and just because you convince some other customer to pay $1 more than I do doesn't mean you get to take my access away in order to provide his.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Test your Broadband connection today! -- »measurementlab.net/
avpronald

join:2003-05-01
Bloomfield, NJ

Metered Broadband Is Coming

I want to know is verizion going to make us pay for all the bytes of advertising that are forced upon us on every site we visit.
sykchyld

join:2008-12-26
Syracuse, NY

Re: Metered Broadband Is Coming

Verizon wont meter. It has to much to loose being that FiOS is so young.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:
·VOIPo
·Metrocast Communic..
·AT&T DSL Service
·ViaTalk

Re: Metered Broadband Is Coming

said by sykchyld See Profile :

Verizon wont meter. It has to much to loose being that FiOS is so young.
I wish you were correct, but it will happen. If they can find a way to make it happen they will.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org

TheTruth

@verizon.net

This Doesn't Solve Anything

Bandwidth is just a tool used for profit... essentially bandwidth has only one true purpose; and that's to measure the amount of data you send and receive in a given time. All these companies are trying to do is add a money sign next to it and everyone is falling for it. Now if grandma is paying $20 a month to check her e-mail that's her choice... if this is such a big issue than all Verizon and other companies would have to do in this popular example is simply make a small plan with very little upload/download speeds at a cheap price... since you don't need whopping speeds for such a thing anyways. With such weak upload/download speeds, I highly doubt it could ever consume large amounts of bandwidth even if both streams were constantly peaked the entire month. Even by her being connected 24/7, if she's not consuming any bandwidth it doesn't affect anyone, her, or the network. I already told Verizon to put me on the disconnect list for when they make this change and that I will be spreading the word for others to do so around my area. Find a better solution instead of praying on the public to fuel your corporation with more money, greed and power.
Forums » Verizon: Metered Broadband Is Comingpage: 1 · 2 · 3


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