 
skyfreedomdo
Premium
join:2003-01-01
Boise, ID
| if... if Verizon get the iphone I will have to wait a few months after the iphone is on Verizon and see how much they will cripple it. Verizon's Vcrap is a sad attempt at providing what users are used to today.
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SKYFREEDOM NETWORKS
Whatever the angle; We've got you covered. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
| Re: if... said by skyfreedomdo  :if Verizon get the iphone I will have to wait a few months after the iphone is on Verizon and see how much they will cripple it. Verizon's Vcrap is a sad attempt at providing what users are used to today. Verizon typically only cripples GPS on smartphones. I doubt Apple would allow them to do that however. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: if... said by Eat Me :said by Matt :said by skyfreedomdo :if Verizon get the iphone I will have to wait a few months after the iphone is on Verizon and see how much they will cripple it. Verizon's Vcrap is a sad attempt at providing what users are used to today. Verizon typically only cripples GPS on smartphones. I doubt Apple would allow them to do that however. Verizon cripples everything. Ask any Verizon user about OBEX bluetooth profile on any Verizon bluetooth enabled phone. I had Verizon for 3+ years and had 3-4 smartphones. They cripple only when they can install their BREW software. They don't do this on WinMo nor Blackberry phones as they would have to replace the entire WinMo or BB OS. I used OBEX file transfer across BT all the time on my XV6700 and Q9c. | |
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spamd
Premium
join:2001-04-22
Rockford, IL
 ·Insight Communicat..
| Re: if... Verizon has crippled GPS and WiFi for Blackberries until recently. Wifi does not work on all bb's. GPS on the Storm now works with 3rd party apps. All other bb's can only use the gps with bb maps or vz nav.
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When everything is coming your way, you are in the wrong lane. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: if... said by djrobx :They don't do this on WinMo nor Blackberry phones as they would have to replace the entire WinMo or BB OS No, they just have a customized version of WinMo or BB. I've done work with Windows CE - Microsoft has a nifty interface that makes it easy to cherry pick which components you want included with your firmware build. And, as part of the firmware install, there's usually a carrier customization process that adds the logo and sets up other configuration items. Regardless of what Windows CE can do, the fact is that Verizon cripples GPS on smartphones and nothing else. | |
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| jimk
Premium
join:2006-04-15
Raleigh, NC
·AT&T Southeast
·RoadRunner Cable
| Apple cripples the iPhone, along with AT&T to a lesser extent. The application store is basically their version of Get It Now, but it is somehow OK when Apple does it. Sure, Apple's store is more open and better... but it is aimed at a different market - Get It Now is for regular phones, not smart phones. The iPhone only recently started supporting MMS and voice command.
Verizon's smart phones let you install anything. I can run Sling over 3G on my Verizon phone. I can download large files over 3G. Only the regular phones have limitations on VZW. To be fair, almost every other smart phone on every other carrier is also just as open.
Verizon allows tethering. There is a fee, but it is still cheaper than a separate 3G card. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: if... said by jimk :Verizon's smart phones let you install anything. I can run Sling over 3G on my Verizon phone. I can download large files over 3G. Only the regular phones have limitations on VZW. To be fair, almost every other smart phone on every other carrier is also just as open. Verizon allows tethering. There is a fee, but it is still cheaper than a separate 3G card. Sure, you can install anything. But the selection is pathetic at best.
Also, Verizon does allow tethering but the price is MORE than a separate 3G card when you add in the $15 tethering fee. It's $60 (Smartphone Unlimited Package + Broadband Connect) to tether officially on Verizon, but $45 for a separate 3G card. | |
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| | | jimk
Premium
join:2006-04-15
Raleigh, NC
·AT&T Southeast
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: if... said by Matt :Sure, you can install anything. But the selection is pathetic at best. Also, Verizon does allow tethering but the price is MORE than a separate 3G card when you add in the $15 tethering fee. It's $60 (Smartphone Unlimited Package + Broadband Connect) to tether officially on Verizon, but $45 for a separate 3G card. Selection is pathetic... that would depend on what applications you use.
Tethering: cheaper than having a smart phone and a data card. | |
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60529262
join:2007-01-11
Chicago, IL
| Selection is pathetic? Well, once you weed out all of the bubble wrap, farting and baby shaking apps the selection of actual, useful business-oriented apps is about the same. And VZW's tethering beats the snot out of Apple/ATTW's nonexistent offering, right? | |
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LV49281002382
@cox.net
| Re: if... you go ahead and keep your Verizon rip-me-off store, who by the way charges 3.99 for the eBAY app ---- oh and that is MONTHLY. At least the free iphone apps (like the same ebay app) are free, and no monthly charges. Verizon will nickel and dime you to hell, and then be rude on the phone about how the speed is only 1/2 that of their competition (e.g. on blackberry storm 3g vs iphone 3g, yes the old one) | |
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eyes only
@sbcglobal.net | Re: if... You can't figure out how to get to eBay without paying for an app? | |
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| | | sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH | Why would you have to pay for tethering when you already pay for a data plan?
Does the idiocy of said policies occur to you? | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: if... said by sonicmerlin :Why would you have to pay for tethering when you already pay for a data plan? Does the idiocy of said policies occur to you? Actually, no. The data plan is for your phone or handheld device. You don't use as much data on your handheld device because it's much more cumbersome to do so. It's easier to suck up a ton more data if you can tether to your laptop. So I'm fine with the extra charge. | |
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| | dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
| said by jimk :Verizon allows tethering. There is a fee, but it is still cheaper than a separate 3G card. AT&T and Sprint also allow tethering but not on every phone and not with every plan. People were tethering their Palm 650s and 750s and BBs on AT&T long before the iPhone came into existence. | |
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| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: if... I don't think it has anything to do with the iPhone itself for tethering, more than the pure volume of phones they have out there AND the clients that have them in their hands.. that customer base is FAR more likely to tether their phones as a group over other phone set users.. that number, I believe, is what scares AT&T to not want to allow that feature.. for now. | |
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| ashworth
join:2001-10-06
Pittsburgh, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
| First of all VZW doesn't need Apple or the i-phone, but it would be nice, if the price was right. VZ has always been stingy, while AT&T has been adventurous when it comes to other endeavors in all lines of business. Sooner or later, it will all come together ........ you know Rome wasn't built in day !! | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| Will there be an Iphone war Att i dont think will let the Iphone go easily, and if Verizon wants it , it going to have be a big deal for apple. By why would apple, want to support another platform ? Cdma/LTE, versus, the new standard of Gsm/umts/lte. By default the GSM family is cheaper and has more saleability. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Will there be an Iphone war said by DaveNJ :Att i dont think will let the Iphone go easily, and if Verizon wants it , it going to have be a big deal for apple. By why would apple, want to support another platform ? Cdma/LTE, versus, the new standard of Gsm/umts/lte. By default the GSM family is cheaper and has more saleability. I can give you 100 million reasons - or the entire userbase of CDMA - which is the dominate technology in North America. Remember, Apple gets a cut of the monthly bill from each user. I'm sure they'd love to add $30 million dollars or more a month to their bottom line. | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX | Re: Will there be an Iphone war But it will be CDMA/LTE and probably with a GSM radio in it for overseas travel.
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Play a Death Knight?
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| Re: Will there be an Iphone war said by NOCMan :But it will be CDMA/LTE and probably with a GSM radio in it for overseas travel. This also puts Verizon in a bind, Quad band Gsm is necessary, 800/1900 is being used all over Central and South America, elsewhere. I still dont get why Verizon didnt start by moving to HSPA now, rather then wait. At least it would be on step closer to world standard.
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They Live... We Sleep...
“Spreading the wealth around” never results in a better outcome for people. It always results in destruction.
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
1 edit | Re: Will there be an Iphone war said by tiger72 :said by NOCMan :But it will be CDMA/LTE and probably with a GSM radio in it for overseas travel. that i can see happening! It will probably be a regular iphone, with a cdma radio added on, plus the programming needed to run it. The cost will be higher, plus i dont see apple rushing to make revisions for a single phone, there will probably be cdma option added to all iphones, where it just checks if the equipment is available.
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They Live... We Sleep...
“Spreading the wealth around” never results in a better outcome for people. It always results in destruction.
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| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| I'm sorry to say that I don't think you quite get the entire industry as a whole and especially when it comes to apple.
Even when it comes to Verizon moving towards LET, they still will not be powering down CDMA for quite some time. With the sheer number of CDMA users out there, it makes PERFECT sense to roll out a CDMA iPhone RIGHT NOW! .. yes, RIGHT as they are moving towards LTE. Why??
... first of all, it fits the apple model... Get everyone into an iPhone hand set now, and roll out an update shortly after that everyone will drool over and buy. Its a win win for apple AND Verizon or Sprint. You roll out a phone like this, everyone buys a million units.. they get contracts signed up the butt, and then they launch the next version before contract end which makes them MORE money when people "early upgrade"...
Your post, while it makes perfect sense, assumes that these providers and makers are thinking like we, the customer. If they did, BBR wouldn't have an audience any more... right? | |
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
 ·T-Mobile US
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Will there be an Iphone war said by fiberguy :I'm sorry to say that I don't think you quite get the entire industry as a whole and especially when it comes to apple. Even when it comes to Verizon moving towards LET, they still will not be powering down CDMA for quite some time. With the sheer number of CDMA users out there, it makes PERFECT sense to roll out a CDMA iPhone RIGHT NOW! .. yes, RIGHT as they are moving towards LTE. Why?? ... first of all, it fits the apple model... Get everyone into an iPhone hand set now, and roll out an update shortly after that everyone will drool over and buy. Its a win win for apple AND Verizon or Sprint. You roll out a phone like this, everyone buys a million units.. they get contracts signed up the butt, and then they launch the next version before contract end which makes them MORE money when people "early upgrade"... Your post, while it makes perfect sense, assumes that these providers and makers are thinking like we, the customer. If they did, BBR wouldn't have an audience any more... right? Maybe i'm missing something, but they're under contract obligation to ATT. They CAN'T roll one out to CDMA "now" or anytime soon.
Apple has their sights set on the *world* - not just the single North American market (with its relatively high prices for smartphone access limiting sales possibilities).
Financially, it makes more sense to spend time on the world standard GSM/LTE. The costs are lower on the device itself (since your market is 4 BILLION, not 150 Million), and it makes more sense to spend R&D on supporting a single, uniform device.
Getting people "hooked" on a CDMA iPhone is unnecessary. If they've been waiting the past 2 years (the duration of a standard cell phone contract) and still haven't switched to ATT for the iPhone - they're probably not going to rush out to get some CDMA iPhone. They can wait another year til VZW gets an LTE network up and running.
The ONLY CDMA iPhone that I can ever imagine would be a CDMA/LTE combo phone, which, of course, wouldn't come out until VZW has an LTE network ready to go. As I said earlier - VZW will want a flagship device for their new LTE network, and the iPhone could be that device.
That would fit Apple's desire to make their phone available to the largest possible market worldwide (LTE) while also being accessible to Verizon's existing CMDA network.
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"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
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| | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
1 edit | Re: Will there be an Iphone war Apple recruited CDMA developers in the not to near past.
And yes, you did not get it. If you hook a customer on a phone with a 2 year contract and you know something else may come out prior to the two years, you're likely to get that contracted customer to upgrade at a higher rate.. Even if they didn't, what does it matter? A customer is a customer to apple. They sell millions of those handsets and make a fortune.
Apple is INCREDIBLY good at mass-confusion marketing.. to be honest, NO one here really knows what apple is going to do, until apple is about to do it... that's a fact. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| The difference between 'north America' and 'globally' is nearly a killer for a second physical build.
- GSM/UMTS/LTE base = +3.8 billion
- CDMA 1x/EVDO base = 480 million
China Mobile has +457 million GSM subscribers alone.
This, on a global scale would be the equivalent of Sprint deploying a Palm Pre on its Nextel iDEN network.
From a business perspective:
- Apple builds/supports 1 physical model on 1 platform GLOBALLY
- RIM/Palm/Motorola, etc. Are all large manufacturers, and have been building various models for YEARS. Apple built 1 physical model, and doesn't offer different flavors (outside of memory, and shell color).
I would actually say that Apple did want too much from Verizon Wireless to deploy a CDMA iPhone, as Apple would probably require more $$$ to make a CDMA exclusive line _just_ for Verizon/Bell, and a GSM based one for the rest of the world.
Also, I thought Apple stopped receiving data subsidies on the iPhone when the 3G version was deployed.
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Frink
Professor
join:2000-07-13
Scotch Plains, NJ | ...because AT&T's network has, and will most likely continue, to suck. It is the joke of the iPhone, not a day goes by where someone says how "great the iPhone is, but it's too bad it's on a crappy network..." or something to that effect. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Will there be an Iphone war said by Frink :...because AT&T's network has, and will most likely continue, to suck. It is the joke of the iPhone, not a day goes by where someone says how "great the iPhone is, but it's too bad it's on a crappy network..." or something to that effect. I agree. A funny anecdote, but my daughter didn't want an iPhone due to the lack of a real keyboard so she got an LG Shine and even she posted the other day on Facebook, "how come i'll keep my phone in the same exact place and one minute, i'll have nooo service, and the next i'll have really good service? annoying."
I see the same behavior on my iPhone. | |
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Frink
Professor
join:2000-07-13
Scotch Plains, NJ | Re: Will there be an Iphone war It is really embarrassing. Apple's sales are amazing, yes, but they take a character hit each time someone associates their name to their exclusive craptacular network. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Will there be an Iphone war Strange... I have never owned an iPhone, but I have good service on AT&T. I have good service on Sprint as well, but that's besides the point.
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| | | glinc
join:2009-04-07
New York, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
| the difference is in how many millions/billions verizon spend upgrading their network each year. AT&T recently started spending almost as much but only in NYC. As long as AT&T doesn't want to lay some $$$ out of their pockets their service will still suck.
I remember back in the day when they were Cingular their service was reliable and great but after they became AT&T it just started going downhill.
I'll stay with Verizon and get my Tour and I can wait till the iPhone comes. | |
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Frink
Professor
join:2000-07-13
Scotch Plains, NJ
| Re: Will there be an Iphone war I can't tell you if it sucks in my area or not, I don't even have their service. I just listen to the multitude of informed technical and non technical professionals who continually deride the company, many of which post in news articles on dslr similar to this one. | |
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bnceo
join:2007-10-11
West Orange, NJ | Guess no unlock and making it for Sprint? I guess since VZ is moving to LTE and so is the iPhone, does that mean I can't unlock and make it for Sprint? I prefer my lovely Sprint network here in the Tri-State. | |
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60529262
join:2007-01-11
Chicago, IL | Re: Interesting Quote from CEO GSM is a global standard too, but the frequency bands it operates are not (nor are those for LTE). You still have to get past the multiple band radio issue, which in some cases would only enable one or two smallish networks. Not worth it. | |
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| | ciucca
join:2004-05-24
1 edit | Re: Interesting Quote from CEO I can confirm that EVDO Rev A to LTE handoffs do work and will be deployed on CDMA EVDO systems in Verizon in the next 6 to 12 months. Also VOIP using eHRPD (in EVDO ) the functionality at least will be deployed on EVDO RNCs in the same time frame.
an eHRPD capable AT (eAT) will be able to HO from the EVDO Rev A network to LTE seamlessly. I believe this inter-working is part of Verizon's strategy. I believe Verizon is planning on deploying LTE in the major cities first. Boston for ALU's network and Seattle for Ericksons will be the first.
Since I work at the network development level for one of the above, I'm not sure of the big picture as far as handsets go. I suspect that whatever phones are offered they will be EVDO and LTE capable (eHRPD personality), with EVDO used for VOIP (that's a guess), and data when it is out of range of a node B.
I don't believe CDMA EVDO is disappearing anytime soon. I think the first deployment of LTE will be to enterprize customers in major cities. I don't think they expect all their customers to switch over night. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Interesting Quote from CEO This will require EVDO Rev A handsets and VoIP in that case.. I agree, it won't be an overnight switch, as there are +80 million handsets out there, and I don't expect 1x voice disappear for a while either This is also why VZW (and to a lesser extent Sprint) need to have all EVDO Rev A sites for handoffs.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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obeythelaw
Premium
join:2003-04-16
Bayonne, NJ
 ·DIRECTV
| i've been on att when it was cingular and never had a problem with network. When i switched to verizon, i noticed my call quality was not as good in the NY/NY area. For me, ATT's network is better than Verizon. Call quality is louder and clearer for me. Not to mention I can use all kinds of unlocked gsm phones on att. Right now, i'm still on the first generation iphone but will be upgrading soon and hope that apple keeps the iphone an att exclusive. | |
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| geonap
lolatidiots
join:2005-12-14
Glendale, CA
·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: i've been said by obeythelaw :on att when it was cingular and never had a problem with network. When i switched to verizon, i noticed my call quality was not as good in the NY/NY area. For me, ATT's network is better than Verizon. Call quality is louder and clearer for me. Not to mention I can use all kinds of unlocked gsm phones on att. Right now, i'm still on the first generation iphone but will be upgrading soon and hope that apple keeps the iphone an att exclusive. why would you hope that the iPhone remains an att exclusive?
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Operation Northwoods
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" -Oscar Wilde
»www.whatreallyhappened.com/
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»www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.asp | |
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obeythelaw
Premium
join:2003-04-16
Bayonne, NJ
·DIRECTV
| Re: i've been said by geonap :said by obeythelaw :on att when it was cingular and never had a problem with network. When i switched to verizon, i noticed my call quality was not as good in the NY/NY area. For me, ATT's network is better than Verizon. Call quality is louder and clearer for me. Not to mention I can use all kinds of unlocked gsm phones on att. Right now, i'm still on the first generation iphone but will be upgrading soon and hope that apple keeps the iphone an att exclusive. why would you hope that the iPhone remains an att exclusive? i'm just speaking off the cuff, really. I don't care if verizon gets the iphone, i just don't want apple to move to verizon exclusively on the iphone as my experience with verizon's call quality is not as good as it is with att, for me. i don't think i could switch back to verizon if they got an iphone and att lost it. | |
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| | | geonap
lolatidiots
join:2005-12-14
Glendale, CA | Re: i've been i see.. i dunno, in LA and some other places i've been, verizon kills any GSM service for me.. and i have both | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: i've been I don't know - I've had AT&T, Sprint, Nextel and even Verizon Wireless (back in 2001). VZW messed up so bad that I'd take smoke signals before them.
I make 1-3 hour conference calls on both AT&T and Sprint - no dropped calls on either (AT&T has better voice quallty IMO).
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geonap
lolatidiots
join:2005-12-14
Glendale, CA | vzw xv6800 i think it's an xv6800, my friend had gotten 6 months ago, it wouldn't let us install opera mini but got her switched to blackberry and we could. | |
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podstolom
@kanren.net
| Re: vzw xv6800 said by geonap :i think it's an xv6800, my friend had gotten 6 months ago, it wouldn't let us install opera mini but got her switched to blackberry and we could. That's because BB has java on it, xv6800 did not. Your friend could, if she had wanted to, get all geeky with it and put java on it and then Opera Mini would have installed on top of that. | |
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| | geonap
lolatidiots
join:2005-12-14
Glendale, CA | Re: vzw xv6800 no!!! it barred it from being installed 
i did java and opera mini on a 755p with sprint, lets just say it crashed more than windows ME | |
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Chaldo
join:2008-03-18
West Bloomfield, MI
| I love att I don't know where you guys live, but in the Detroit/Metro Detroit area att wireless is the bomb. Verizon is very well here, but I just don't like how they run there company so I have att wireless for almost 12 years (when it was cingular, and before w/e it was) I never had problems. I have a blackberry bold, and I can say I go to areas where verizon will drop and I have full service. The data here for att is must faster then verizon too.
I wish the iPhone stayed on ATT, and who knows guys I mean ATT has been dealing with GSM for a while, and have more experience. Verizon is just hopping on it right now. Verizon's gonna spend more money to deploy it, so who knows how they will do. This is going to be a LTE war att vs verizon. We will see what happens. | |
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| geonap
lolatidiots
join:2005-12-14
Glendale, CA | Re: I love att i dont think LTE is GSM. | |
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lolatidiots
join:2005-12-14
Glendale, CA | Re: I love att dunno then y0 | |
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dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
| i am glad the the iPhone is not a CDMA device I like the ability of HSPA/UTMS to do simultaneous voice and data. CDMA cannot do that. I like being able to have email come in while I am on the phone.
So I hope the iPhone remains forever a HSPA/UTMS/GSM device. At least until it is proven that LTE can do simultaneous voice and data. | |
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FastiBook
join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA | If verizon gets the iPhone... People will still switch to att.
- A
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folsom
join:2006-04-30
Atlanta, GA | Negotiations I would love to see the discussions between Apple and Qualcomm to make a LTE/CDMA phone. | |
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Verizon: LTE iPhone 'Apple's Decision'
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Interesting Quote from CEO