 
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Easy Fix These text-message based content providers should simply block service to/from Verizon customers if this bothers them that much.
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"At the moment of conception." | |
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 | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: Easy Fix said by pnh102  :These text-message based content providers should simply block service to/from Verizon customers if this bothers them that much. Customers will blame their carrier if their Jamster and "Who is your love?" commercials don't work on their phone, not Jamster and the "love guru". Nothing like running an ad campaign with all the carriers except Verizon. Verizon was also very late, and still is late to the premium content by 3rd parties game because of their Get-It-Now system and that alot of premium content can't be put on phones. | |
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Space_Ranger
join:2002-07-15 | Here comes another money grab... I guess Verizon is the first to pull the trigger on this one..wanna bet the rest follow suit before the end of the year ? | |
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anon1010101
@verizon.net | Fees I rather them pass the fee to company's instead of the consumer. | |
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Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
Premium
join:2003-05-31
Erie, PA
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Fees quote:
I rather them pass the fee to company's instead of the consumer.
The companies will just raise their price a penny here and there to get their money back so at the end of the day the customer will pay for it and more then likely more.
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"Facts not FUD". | |
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buzz_4_20
join:2003-09-20
Presque Isle, ME
·Great Works Internet
·GWIS Internet Solu..
edit:
October 10th, @09:52AM
| Cost is already paid? The customer already pays to get the messages.
The sender pays to send the messages.
This is the same as net neutrality?
Everyone pays at their end of the wire, what's the problem?
I pay to get on the internet, companies pay to bandwidth to put their content on the internet. Where is the problem? | |
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| axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Cox HSI
| Re: Cost is already paid? The problem is that wireless companies don't seem to be in a state of competition on text messaging. When companies collaborate together to raise prices on a commodity, it's called collusion. OPEC would be illegal if they had a presence here.
The only way this would make sense and still be legal is if there was a technical reason limiting the number of text messages that could be handled by the companies. In that case, there's a scarcity that higher prices would help get rid of. But, text messages are so small; if at any given moment, 10 million are using 100bps each, it's only 1Gbps to provide SMS for the entire country. But the companies make billions from it by not competing. | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Cost is already paid? said by axus :The problem is that wireless companies don't seem to be in a state of competition on text messaging. When companies collaborate together to raise prices on a commodity, it's called collusion. OPEC would be illegal if they had a presence here. The only way this would make sense and still be legal is if there was a technical reason limiting the number of text messages that could be handled by the companies. There actually is a very significant bandwidth problem for SMS. That is why they have the 160 character limit. FEMA and DHS have been dealing with this technical limitation for the text alert system they have been working on.
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ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher | |
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| | | wtansill
Ncc1701
join:2000-10-10
Falls Church, VA
| Re: Cost is already paid? said by marigolds :There actually is a very significant bandwidth problem for SMS. That is why they have the 160 character limit. FEMA and DHS have been dealing with this technical limitation for the text alert system they have been working on. Could you elaborate on this please? | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Cost is already paid? Unfortunately I don't have the technical background for it.
Basically though, the SMS provider is separate from the cellular provider and the SMS message is sent over a different protocol (that's why there is no way to geolocate an SMS message, but you can geolocate a cell phone call). The gateway network for SMS is a different network from that for PLMN. | |
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tater_gunz
Shoot to kill
Premium
join:2003-08-22
Toledo, OH | Re: Cost is already paid? SMS uses the SS7 protocol (for anyone who cares). As far as not being able to triangulate it, I'm not so sure about that, but I'll defer to the experts.
- Tate
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Happiness is an OC-768 in your basement... | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | AFAIK, a Verizon cellphone call is 3600 txt messages ((9600*60) bytes /160) per minute. Have fun getting drilled by the cellular bubba. | |
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tater_gunz
Shoot to kill
Premium
join:2003-08-22
Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable
edit:
October 10th, @10:46AM
| What a crock! SMS is a complete scam. It costs next to nothing to transport these messages.
In many ways, this article reminded me of the Network Neutrality debate; specifically, Google's argument that they shouldn't have to pay toll fees to transit providers just for delivering data to end users.
Everyone wants to double dip these days...
- Tate
EDIT: Grammar and spelling corrections
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Happiness is an OC-768 in your basement... | |
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Hazy Arc
join:2006-04-10
Greenwood, SC | How Sad There's a special place in Hell for these money-crazed corporations. Enjoy it while you can. | |
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mrchris
No more bailouts
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY
·Optimum Online
| Re: How Sad Yep, level 4 of Hell.
Level 4
Just before the river Styx is the Fourth Level of Hell. Here, the prodigal and the avaricious suffer their punishment, as they roll weights back and forth against one another. You will share eternal damnation with others who either wasted and lived greedily and insatiably, or who stockpiled their fortunes, hoarding everything and sharing nothing. Plutus, the wolf-like demon of wealth, dwells here. | |
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Matt
Running Free
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
 ·Corporate Colocation
| Re: Hmmm.. said by wifi4milez :I wasnt aware that most companies delivering text message alerts actually used an SMS gateway to do so. Isnt it much easier for them to simply set it up in email format (2125551212@yourcarrier.com) and send it that way? The message still arrives as a text message to the end user, and Verizon cant charge extra for it. You can't get as much information into the txt message if you use the @vtext.com, because it shows the from: to: and subject: fields.
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Linux Haters Unite! | |
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wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·BroadVoice
| Re: Hmmm.. said by Matt :said by wifi4milez :I wasnt aware that most companies delivering text message alerts actually used an SMS gateway to do so. Isnt it much easier for them to simply set it up in email format (2125551212@yourcarrier.com) and send it that way? The message still arrives as a text message to the end user, and Verizon cant charge extra for it. You can't get as much information into the txt message if you use the @vtext.com, because it shows the from: to: and subject: fields. What if you leave them blank? Keep in mind an SMS can only have between 140 and 160 (roughly) characters, so its not like people are receiving lengthy messages anyway.
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If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
-Ronald Reagan-
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| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| It depends.. I have a gateway of my own for delivering mass messages and it's true SMS. Others will use a method to determine the carrier by phone number, mark it with the @carier.com and deliver them. However, that is so flaky and non-successful and the often get blocked by the carriers.
Believe me when I say, SMS gateway is expensive. The short code alone is a butt load of money. This fee is pure BS and yet another Telephone born "fee" as they so love to come up with. | |
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megatron266
Premium
join:2007-08-11
Fort Lauderdale, FL | Who's Really Going to Pay??? All these content carriers are going to do is increase the cost of their content to cover the 3 cent fee. So the customer really is going to pay 23 cents to recieve those messages. | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: Who's Really Going to Pay??? said by megatron266 :All these content carriers are going to do is increase the cost of their content to cover the 3 cent fee. So the customer really is going to pay 23 cents to recieve those messages. Its already 99 cents a day, 30 days per month, monthly subscription, and notarized letter sent via certified mail to cancel. The content providers can easily afford it. | |
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Tsume
My little Toby.
join:2004-02-23
Winter Park, FL
·ViaTalk
·Cox HSI
| Re: Who's Really Going to Pay??? said by patcat88 :said by megatron266 :All these content carriers are going to do is increase the cost of their content to cover the 3 cent fee. So the customer really is going to pay 23 cents to recieve those messages. Its already 99 cents a day, 30 days per month, monthly subscription, and notarized letter sent via certified mail to cancel. The content providers can easily afford it. WHAT ABOUT GOOGLE CALENDAR ALERTS?
Those are free and now they're going to charge google? Will they stay free? Probably, but this is still fucked up. | |
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Tolu
@comcast.net
| You are misinformed. The wireless companies take about 51% of all revenues generated by premium campaigns on top of all std fees. For example if you subscribe to a campaign that costs 2.99/mth and you are a verizon customer, they will take about $1.50 and all std fees from the generated revenue and pass on the remaining to the content provider!! Given the structure of revenue sharing I think they are just plain greedy. | |
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funchords
Robb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Hillsboro, OR | Re: Way to prevent spam? Is this getting through to you via some email gateway? Or are the spammers using SMS? (I never get any of this.) | |
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Matt
Running Free
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
·Corporate Colocation
| Re: Way to prevent spam? said by funchords :Is this getting through to you via some email gateway? Or are the spammers using SMS? (I never get any of this.) I'm not sure about David, but I get tons of spam on my running phone (I keep it with me when I run in the AM, I never use it.) and none on my primary phone. I have a pretty easy to guess number on my running phone and I think it may have been someone else's number before I got it, because I do sometimes get voice mails for random people.
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Linux Haters Unite! | |
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David
Last man standing
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
clubs: | I am not sure exactly how they are getting through. I ordered the number change as of today cause frankly I am tired of it. If they still get through only thing I can hope is they charge the people that are sending this non-sense. | |
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nishiko
@comcast.net | What a crock! I would switch carriers. Not content to profit massively on the consumer end, now they want to go for a double by sticking it to the sending end too!
What a joke of a company!! Go elsewhere for your cell service. I will be. | |
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funchords
Robb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Hillsboro, OR |  I will leave Verizon Wireless
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: I will leave Verizon Wireless Good for you, and 10000 people will join Verizon today. | |
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bbrogersss
@wightman.ca
| Here a fee, there a fee, everywhere a fee fee! Maybe someone can explain this too me if this isn't true...
DATA is DATA... be it a SMS message, MMS, email, websurfing or tethering... it's all DATA. They are just charging different rates for the SAME DATA!
I know everyone needs to make a buck, but come on. We are getting generic fees on EVERYTHING.
- System Access Fee (most cell providers)
- Digital Services Fee (ExpressVU / maybe others)
- Network access fee / charge (on some landline long distance plans) | |
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pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
clubs: | Can you pay me now? Good. | |
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EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA
| Congestion I think it's fairly obvious what's happening here- "the network" is overcongested. The modern SMS system over CDMA wasn't designed to handle such high quantities of messages, and I don't think there's any logical upgrade path to SMS.
Remember a while back, they were trying to drop SMS notifications? That failed. I think it's pretty obvious that the new fee is an attempt to limit demand and lower the overall volume of SMS messages.
If VZW can't get control of their network, then you'll probably start seeing a degradation in SMS service quality, with messages being dropped or delayed substantially.
I wouldn't be surprised if Verizon Wireless had the highest amount of text messages out of the national US wireless carriers- yes at&t has more customers, but VZW has been spending a lot of time pushing those "texting phones" like the LG Voyager and the enV and seems to have been quite successful there (at least I see them all the time)... | |
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| axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC | Re: Congestion Then they need to go to a different system for text messaging. Maybe the Android software platform will be able to bring a new standard. | |
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| | EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA
| Re: Congestion Much easier said that done. Soo much easier said than done.
You're talking likely over 60 million phones that currently are active on the current SMS system. Every single phone in the pipeline from the phone manufacturers depends on the current system. So it would probably take over a year before you could even have any phones at all on a new system... and most people don't update their phones that often, so they won't see any benefits. | |
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| diablito24
join:2005-12-02
Miami, FL
| With T-mobile I'm already seeing it happening. I have txt friends and vice-versa and the txt sometimes doesn't get there for hours or couple of days. A friend called and i was able to hear the voice mail. When i called my friend back she said oh yeah but that was like a week ago i was like what?.... it does not happen to me every day it has happened a couple of times but it has happened to my friends as well. I was thinking that maybe was happening because of the upgrades in their network to 3g but that's my opinion. Who knows maybe the boogieman is lurking in the network  | |
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Vchat20
Landing is the REAL challenge
join:2003-09-16
Warren, OH
| Simple fix Why not just drop SMS altogether and replace it with email access either directly on the phone or gateway-ed through the provider? The upside is the provider can either offer their own email services (much like it is now with email gateways like 1234567890@vtext.com, but it goes to a real mail server and not transferred to 160-character limited text messages) or for a moderate extra fee, access to the mailbox of the customer's choice.
I already do this to a point with my bog-standard nextel phone. Gmail applet installed on the phone and my gmail account forwards snippets of messages from certain recipients as SMS messages so if one pops up, I can look it up in the gmail applet. Wouldn't be all that difficult to integrate a similar email client in place of the SMS functionality.
Like another poster already mentioned above: SMS functionality uses a totally different infrastructure from data and voice and it DOES have bandwidth issues, albeit companies like VZW are still raping people on these per-text charges. SMS is old school and really has no upgrade path. And with the trend of things now, it really needs to be replaced by something more 'economic'. Use something like email which can then use the data side of the network and cost much less for the provider and not have this paltry 160-character limit to deal with.
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I swear, some people should have pace-makers installed to free up the resources. Breathing and heart beat taxes their whole system, all of their brain cells wasted on life support.-two bit brains, and the second bit is wasted on parity! ~head_spaz | |
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Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Doing to wireless what they did to POTS And if this nickel and dime-ing continues they'll lose their wireless subs just like they're losing their POTS subs. | |
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slckusr
Premium
join:2003-03-17
Maumee, OH | Good While this will surely put some honest people in a bad spot.
hopefully it will leash in the predicto mobiles, joke of the days, and thumbplay scam artists. ( never mind they'll just raise their 9.99 price higher) | |
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Viper007Bond
Premium
join:2002-09-26
Portland, OR | Twitter So does this spell the end for receiving tweets from friends for Verizon users? | |
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elwoodblues
join:2006-08-30
Toronto, ON
| Stupid people It's not a matter of Verizon or any other carrier charging, its about STUPID STUPID people.
A lot of people are inundated with spam in their email, why? Part of it is dictionary attacks, part of it is simply stupid people who freely give out their email addresses when signing up for something (UHM thats why they invented HOTMAIL)
Now the fast forward to SMS, and you see ads saying "text 12345" and you MIGHT win a prize .
Gotcha.. now we have a live number we can spam with messages. | |
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Verizon Charges Companies 3 Cents To SMS Their Customers
Way to prevent spam?