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Verizon Charges $3.50 Fee To Pay Them
FiOS customers now seeing one off online payment penalty
FiOS users in our Verizon forums note that Verizon is now charging users a $3.50 fee if they want to pay their bill online with a credit card. According to Verizon, the new fee is because Verizon is using a new vendor "to process credit/debit/ATM transactions," though if we recall, Verizon landline phone customers have seen this fee for a while. Conveniently, you'll be able to avoid this fee if you set up autopay with Verizon using the exact same credit card. Of course autopay customers likely pay less attention to what they're paying each month -- something that may or may not be the best idea for a company with a history of messing up their math and imposing phantom charges.
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evergreek
Boeing Rocks
join:2003-05-25
Austin, TX

evergreek

Member

Ripoff

Wow..

burgerwars
join:2004-09-11
Northridge, CA

1 recommendation

burgerwars

Member

Re: Ripoff

Would Verizon disclose the name of this "company" that is charging them this onerous rate to process credit card transactions? I don't think so, because I don't think they exist. And if for some pie-in-the-sky reason this is true, you would think that Verizon, one of the biggest companies in the U.S., could negotiate a rate that is better than the worst of the worst.

jester121
Premium Member
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

jester121

Premium Member

Re: Ripoff

The notice doesn't state that Verizon is being charged $3.50 by their processor, just that that's what Verizon's going to charge customers.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4 to burgerwars

Member

to burgerwars
chances are they using a company called BillMatrix. This company is used only by utility companies and DO charge a $3.95 fee for processing payments via debit and credit card if you choose only to pay one time.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

2 recommendations

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Ripoff

The truth is that there really is no difference in the discount rate or fee that a merchant is charged be it a one time payment or a recurring payment.

This is nothing more than Verizon, like anyone else, trying to offset late payments by customers (which has a real financial impact to Verizon) by encouraging on-time payments by having automatic payments drafted each month.

Here's the psychology to this..

Regular, on-time paying customers, won't mind signing up for this service to avoid the $3.50 fee. A good amount of people already use automatic payments to credit cards and then pay their credit card bills once a month and find it easier this way.

Those people who pay their bills when they have the time, either don't trust auto-payments, which I don't blame them, OR, they're chronic late paying customers. For this, Verizon doesn't care if these customers get charged $3.50.

And, in general, if a customer doesn't like this fee from Verizon, then many have the option to go to the OTHER guy and get their services. If there are no other services available, then they have even more choices to avoid the fee... mail in a check, go into a payment center.. use an online bill pay service.. just don't feel that making payments by credit card is an entitlement because it's not.

Verizon and the rest of the carriers lose about 1% to about 2% of their money to the bank for every customer that pays via credit card in merchant fees. Considering that most customers are paying with credit cards these days, look at how much money Verizon, TWC, Sprint, Comcast, Cox, etc. all lose/pay each month JUST to take your payment?

Take an example of a system of about 350K users with an average bill of $50 a month, and they all pay with a credit card.. that about 175K a month to the bank JUST to run the charges each month.

But back to my original statement... this is all on Verizon.. and in reality, I don't blame them. If they can offset and cut down on the amount of chronic late paying customers and run a cleaner monthly balance sheet, then they save money.. this is more like how the government uses taxes to try to control behavior. Sooner or later, it will be common place for people to say "Oh, I just have them hit my credit card once a month and save $3.50 a month off my bill.. I use my cc anyway for miles or bonuses"..

These fees, i can guarantee you, will continue to come, not go away.

Steve B
Premium Member
join:2004-08-02
Auburn, WA

2 recommendations

Steve B

Premium Member

Re: Ripoff

You throw in the part about "people not trusting the auto-pay, etc" yet your entire post is based on saying that people who choose not to use auto-pay are chronic late payment people. I'm offended by that. I pay my bills on time, every month. I am never late. I hate auto-pay because companies, especially Verizon cannot be trusted to be accurate with their billing. Its been proven countless times. Also, why should anyone be charged to 1) be in control when money leaves their account, 2) to pay their bill, no matter how you do it 3) to avoid having to prove they (VZ) screwed up?

I'm sorry but, if said company wants my money, they will have to be sure the bill is right before they take my money. No one should have to be charged for that crap.

Its also BS because they all bitch moan and groan for people wanting paper bills. They want people to use the computer. So most people now do and now they want to be in complete control of everything and charge you if you don't give it to them. For all the damned billing mistakes VZ doles out, you bet your ass making credit card payments (one time or not) is a damn entitlement.

You list figures.....show the proof. Do you work at Verizon and have access to such monetary figures? If those were true, I'm tired of all these added fees being tacked on to what should be standard operating costs. People already pay VZ an arm and a damn leg for service...they can f'in afford to not charge the damned fee.

I'm sorry but, your post hit my hot button in the worst way. You pretty much say that anyone opposed to this are chronic late payment people....BS BS BS BS BS! That is not true. Then you try to hide that by saying "...or they don't trust auto-pay"....yet your entire argument is based on calling people late payers for wanting the one-time payment option without the fee.

I don't think so......
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Ripoff

said by Steve B:

You throw in the part about "people not trusting the auto-pay, etc" yet your entire post is based on saying that people who choose not to use auto-pay are chronic late payment people. I'm offended by that.
either don't trust auto-payments, which I don't blame them, OR, they're chronic late paying customers.
I'm sorry, but 'auto-offended' people don't do much for me. I know it's a pass-time for people to find what others say, in a free country, to be offended by what is said, and that's cool too as I support people's right to be offended just as much as I defend the rights for people to exercise their freedom to speak their mind,.. however, at LEAST be accurate in what you're rushing to be offended about. lol

So, based on what I said, and based on what you say about yourself about paying your bill on time, that you're of the side of people that just don't trust them with your information. So what's so hard about that? ("RIF" - google it)
I pay my bills on time, every month. I am never late. I hate auto-pay because companies, especially Verizon cannot be trusted to be accurate with their billing. Its been proven countless times.
Oh wait.. wait... waaaaaaait.. and there it is!! you ARE on the side of those that "EITHER DON'T" *trust them*... AMAZING!! (I take my bow now)
Also, why should anyone be charged to 1) be in control when money leaves their account, 2) to pay their bill, no matter how you do it 3) to avoid having to prove they (VZ) screwed up?
This is where we get into hypothetical and the why's and why not's of things.. but, before I waste my time explaining my view which is mostly valid anyway, why don't you explain to me why it is that you believe you're entitled to have the ability to pay with a credit card, or ANY METHOD YOU CHOSE, basically, with out being charged a fee to do so? The fact is that you don't have some sort of constitutional right to pay with your visa card and not incur the convenience fee (appropriately named) when the merchant has to pay a fee TO take your money. To be honest, when you pay with Visa, you're not paying with YOUR MONEY.. you're paying Verizon with VISA's money (or the bank's money) unless and until you pay your credit card bill. And, if you're using a debit card, you're STILL paying using bank money until and unless your transaction clears.. it's called risk. You don't actually pay for the good until you pay the bank.

So long as you have a free method to pay your bill, then you really have no valid argument.. you have a complaint, but it's not a complaint that holds a lot of water. The fact remains, and always will remain, that communication providers and utilities do not have to take your credit card payments.. they chose to do so, most honestly, in their best interest, as a way to ensure a quicker way to get your money. To be honest, the utility companies make it clear they don't want your credit card payments as they make it anything but free to do so in the first place.. they lose money doing so which is why they outsource the payment process to another company who takes them FOR them - in the case of most utilities.
I'm sorry but, if said company wants my money, they will have to be sure the bill is right before they take my money. No one should have to be charged for that crap.
You're right, once again, and are making two different arguments and trying to make them into one. You are not required to pay a bill that isn't right - so continue not to give your credit card information freely. Also, as I have also stated in other posts in this thread, you get a statement and they generally take your bill 20 days later on the "due date".. they don't take your money on the day they invoice you BEFORE they even give you your statement.. THAT ALONE is a violation of the Visa International merchant rules. So, if your bill is wrong, you have time to call and correct it. If your carrier or provider can't be trusted, then don't give them your credit card for auto payments - this should also be a sign of giving them your card number PERIOD. If they can't be trusted in ONE way with your payment info, then why would you trust them even with a one time payment? If you think that's a safe transaction, then you're a fool.

And once again, you are right.. you DON'T have to be charged for that crap (what ever it is you're talking about as crap anyway).. However, what YOU and others, don't realize and often forget, is that you're not entitled to use your credit card everywhere you go. The carriers don't HAVE to take your credit payment.. its a convenience to you. You still have a right to make your payment by check or other methods for free - exercise them. The fact is that you like many others think that once you have done something that you're entitled to have it always and it just isn't reality. Its a self inflicted notion.
Its also BS because they all bitch moan and groan for people wanting paper bills. They want people to use the computer. So most people now do and now they want to be in complete control of everything and charge you if you don't give it to them.
Many people PREFER paperless billing there buddy. You're living in a world that simply doesn't exist. You're one that believes that everyone else must be like you because you're so set in your own ways and beliefs. The fact is HOW you get your bill doesn't matter. In fact, it DOES save money the more people that view their bills in PDF form over having to print and mail it. Not to mention, you get it faster. This is YOUR choice, which IS your choice.. but, as the rest of the world migrates over and the cost to generate bills continues to rise (see the cost of postage these days) you're, how do you say it, "damn right" they're going to start passing the costs on to those that WANT a paper bill.. If you don't think that the desire and need to have bills available 24/7 is important to a lot of people, just see the "outrage" of the people who couldn't log in to the Sprint.com portal a few months back as the site was being migrated over... OH THE HELL people went through because they couldn't see something on-line. OH THE PAIN of having to look at their paper bill.. and OH THE MISERY of having to pick up a phone and talk to a live agent to say "hey, how much do I owe you again??" I hate to tell you this, but you're largely in the minority here of people that want that paper bill mailed out every month and ge angry like you are over this.
For all the damned billing mistakes VZ doles out, you bet your ass making credit card payments (one time or not) is a damn entitlement.
Seek help for that problem.
You list figures.....show the proof. Do you work at Verizon and have access to such monetary figures?
Dude, take your angst out on Verizon.. not me.. and seriously, see the above statement I just made.

There are TWO sets of figures I stated.. 1 was an "example" - but clearly, again, you chose not to "read" the post.. but, continuing with your ramble, ... the other sets of "figures" I posted are common fact - the clearing rate/percentage. So for that, I won't go any further. I own a business, I have a merchant account, MANY People have merchant accounts that post on line here.. and even if you don't have a business, the chances that people here have used PayPal is also VERY high and the fees are charged about the same. (A percentage of the transaction, and a $0.35 cent transaction fee)
If those were true, I'm tired of all these added fees being tacked on to what should be standard operating costs. People already pay VZ an arm and a damn leg for service...they can f'in afford to not charge the damned fee.
Then turn off the cell phone, go back to wire-line service and plan your day accordingly. Maybe taking a course in business would help you understand.. this is no insult, even thought you're sitting here ranting on me for what I said, being "insulted" - what ever that's about.. it's not my fault that you clearly don't understand, and chose not to read.
I'm sorry but, your post hit my hot button in the worst way. You pretty much say that anyone opposed to this are chronic late payment people....BS BS BS BS BS!
No I didn't.. do an EXACT quote, cut and paste..
That is not true.
You got SOMETHING right!
Then you try to hide that by saying "...or they don't trust auto-pay"....yet your entire argument is based on calling people late payers for wanting the one-time payment option without the fee.
You're great at putting words into people's mouths and twisting things to fit your "outrage"... too bad you can't make a living out of that.. oh wait, sure you can.. it's called A.M. Radio Talk Show Host - aka, Shock Jock.

But tell me something,.. if people who use 1 time credit card payments aren't in the category of people who either "pay late" or "don't trust auto pay".. then what else makes them up? I can think of more, but it's pretty obvious, in context, that if you don't trust auto pay, you're of the type that wants control of your financial future.. that's a subset of not trusting.. there is also those that really don't have a huge pool of liquid cash and may CHOSE how they pay their bill every month.. this month it may be CC, next month it may be a different card, it could be a check or cash in person..

But really - it doesn't matter, because you're too busy being "outraged" and having your "button pushed" to actually care to read.
I don't think so......
.. of course not.

jbgroup1
Non Conformist
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
Dayton, MD

jbgroup1

Premium Member

Re: Ripoff

said by fiberguy2:

This is where we get into hypothetical and the why's and why not's of things.. but, before I waste my time explaining my view which is mostly valid anyway, why don't you explain to me why it is that you believe you're entitled to have the ability to pay with a credit card, or ANY METHOD YOU CHOSE, basically, with out being charged a fee to do so? The fact is that you don't have some sort of constitutional right to pay with your visa card and not incur the convenience fee (appropriately named) when the merchant has to pay a fee TO take your money.

Why should anyone be charged a fee to pay one's bill "convenience fee" or not? Charged to pay one's bill regardless of the method of payment? While one does not have a Constitutional right to fee free payment methods it is the height of arrogance to charge a fee for the privilege to pay.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Ripoff

SHOULD is the key question... what is so hard to comprehend about that? There is a difference between what's best, and what is obligated... they are not required to even take your payment.. what you ask is a theoretical question, and, in a free market, that will decide.

I could care less.. I won't do business with verizon. However, if a company tells me I have to pay a fee to use a form of payment, I will chose another method.. period. I really doubt that they're going to be charging customers a fee on ALL forms of available payments at any given time.

Unlike you, and others, I don't personally feel entitled that 1) things always being as they were as things will always change at some point. 2) That my choice to pay with a credit card will always remain free.

On another note.. seriously, time to wake up. The point is being forced that it's some sort of scam or some sort of "the end of the world" that a "right" as is being implied is being taken away or they're being forced to do something, when they're not - thus, as the way things go in OUR society, yes, the constitution is the basis our the rules we live with in our society.. right now, you don't have the RIGHT to a fee-less credit card payment, especially when a fee is charged to the receiving side.

Get it?

Write a check or use cash if you don't like their credit card options, OR, find another provider. Those are your choices, at this time, it appears.

thedragonmas
Premium Member
join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
Netgear R6300 v2
ARRIS SB6180

thedragonmas to fiberguy2

Premium Member

to fiberguy2
im glad im not a VZ customer, i will not pay a fee to PAY a bill ever. your argument that i can pay by check, no problem. how much does it cost them in man power to process a check? ill gladly send them a bunch of $0.10 checks for my bill just to prove a point.

i have never and will never use autopay, i have also never been late, EVER. i will not hand the keys to my account over to any company.

billing errors happen, if they screw up one month and double charge me its no skin off their back, there not the other companys that would get "insuficiant funds" after they screw up, that would be ME and the late fee's piling up while i dealt with them to get the double back, which of course wouldnt happen, theyd either insist on applying it as a bill credit, or would insist on mailing a check (they COULD do it electronically)

so, no, no autopay for me ever.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

1 recommendation

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Ripoff

And I agree with you 100%...

Their bank charges them what ever to process their incoming payments... payments are generally "lock boxed" processed anyway. The last time I dealt with that part of an industry, lock box payment processing fees to the merchant was tiny compared to what it cost to run a credit card.. VERY tiny.. and some banks offered that service for free just to get the deposits.

But, the other thing that Verizon risks is losing customers who won't tolerate a fee to make a one time credit card payment.

Just as Verizon has a right to impose that fee, the customer has the right to give their business to someone else. Anytime a company is willing to screw up and do something stupid, there is another that will exploit and take advantage of their stupidity.

Last I checked, most airlines charge for checked bags... South West Airlines makes it a marketing advantage that they "don't charge for checked bags!!!" - even if their long haul rates are generally a bit higher then the rest. Either way, they take advantage of other airlines who DO charge.

See how this works?

But like you, I won't use auto pay.. I rarely use my actual credit cards anymore as they can't be trusted with them either.. I use 1 time numbers and I don't have much to worry about. Like I said, if someone thinks that one time payments are ANY more secure and trust worthy than auto pay, they're sadly mistaken. I personally don't "trust" companies to keep anything secure, much less abuse the information.

"Trust" - a word that most adults SADLY misplace, and mis-apply ...

Steve B
Premium Member
join:2004-08-02
Auburn, WA

2 recommendations

Steve B to fiberguy2

Premium Member

to fiberguy2
said by fiberguy2:

said by Steve B:

You throw in the part about "people not trusting the auto-pay, etc" yet your entire post is based on saying that people who choose not to use auto-pay are chronic late payment people. I'm offended by that.
either don't trust auto-payments, which I don't blame them, OR, they're chronic late paying customers.
I'm sorry, but 'auto-offended' people don't do much for me. I know it's a pass-time for people to find what others say, in a free country, to be offended by what is said, and that's cool too as I support people's right to be offended just as much as I defend the rights for people to exercise their freedom to speak their mind,.. however, at LEAST be accurate in what you're rushing to be offended about. lol

So, based on what I said, and based on what you say about yourself about paying your bill on time, that you're of the side of people that just don't trust them with your information. So what's so hard about that? ("RIF" - google it)
I pay my bills on time, every month. I am never late. I hate auto-pay because companies, especially Verizon cannot be trusted to be accurate with their billing. Its been proven countless times.
Oh wait.. wait... waaaaaaait.. and there it is!! you ARE on the side of those that "EITHER DON'T" *trust them*... AMAZING!! (I take my bow now)
Also, why should anyone be charged to 1) be in control when money leaves their account, 2) to pay their bill, no matter how you do it 3) to avoid having to prove they (VZ) screwed up?
This is where we get into hypothetical and the why's and why not's of things.. but, before I waste my time explaining my view which is mostly valid anyway, why don't you explain to me why it is that you believe you're entitled to have the ability to pay with a credit card, or ANY METHOD YOU CHOSE, basically, with out being charged a fee to do so? The fact is that you don't have some sort of constitutional right to pay with your visa card and not incur the convenience fee (appropriately named) when the merchant has to pay a fee TO take your money. To be honest, when you pay with Visa, you're not paying with YOUR MONEY.. you're paying Verizon with VISA's money (or the bank's money) unless and until you pay your credit card bill. And, if you're using a debit card, you're STILL paying using bank money until and unless your transaction clears.. it's called risk. You don't actually pay for the good until you pay the bank.

So long as you have a free method to pay your bill, then you really have no valid argument.. you have a complaint, but it's not a complaint that holds a lot of water. The fact remains, and always will remain, that communication providers and utilities do not have to take your credit card payments.. they chose to do so, most honestly, in their best interest, as a way to ensure a quicker way to get your money. To be honest, the utility companies make it clear they don't want your credit card payments as they make it anything but free to do so in the first place.. they lose money doing so which is why they outsource the payment process to another company who takes them FOR them - in the case of most utilities.
I'm sorry but, if said company wants my money, they will have to be sure the bill is right before they take my money. No one should have to be charged for that crap.
You're right, once again, and are making two different arguments and trying to make them into one. You are not required to pay a bill that isn't right - so continue not to give your credit card information freely. Also, as I have also stated in other posts in this thread, you get a statement and they generally take your bill 20 days later on the "due date".. they don't take your money on the day they invoice you BEFORE they even give you your statement.. THAT ALONE is a violation of the Visa International merchant rules. So, if your bill is wrong, you have time to call and correct it. If your carrier or provider can't be trusted, then don't give them your credit card for auto payments - this should also be a sign of giving them your card number PERIOD. If they can't be trusted in ONE way with your payment info, then why would you trust them even with a one time payment? If you think that's a safe transaction, then you're a fool.

And once again, you are right.. you DON'T have to be charged for that crap (what ever it is you're talking about as crap anyway).. However, what YOU and others, don't realize and often forget, is that you're not entitled to use your credit card everywhere you go. The carriers don't HAVE to take your credit payment.. its a convenience to you. You still have a right to make your payment by check or other methods for free - exercise them. The fact is that you like many others think that once you have done something that you're entitled to have it always and it just isn't reality. Its a self inflicted notion.
Its also BS because they all bitch moan and groan for people wanting paper bills. They want people to use the computer. So most people now do and now they want to be in complete control of everything and charge you if you don't give it to them.
Many people PREFER paperless billing there buddy. You're living in a world that simply doesn't exist. You're one that believes that everyone else must be like you because you're so set in your own ways and beliefs. The fact is HOW you get your bill doesn't matter. In fact, it DOES save money the more people that view their bills in PDF form over having to print and mail it. Not to mention, you get it faster. This is YOUR choice, which IS your choice.. but, as the rest of the world migrates over and the cost to generate bills continues to rise (see the cost of postage these days) you're, how do you say it, "damn right" they're going to start passing the costs on to those that WANT a paper bill.. If you don't think that the desire and need to have bills available 24/7 is important to a lot of people, just see the "outrage" of the people who couldn't log in to the Sprint.com portal a few months back as the site was being migrated over... OH THE HELL people went through because they couldn't see something on-line. OH THE PAIN of having to look at their paper bill.. and OH THE MISERY of having to pick up a phone and talk to a live agent to say "hey, how much do I owe you again??" I hate to tell you this, but you're largely in the minority here of people that want that paper bill mailed out every month and ge angry like you are over this.
For all the damned billing mistakes VZ doles out, you bet your ass making credit card payments (one time or not) is a damn entitlement.
Seek help for that problem.
You list figures.....show the proof. Do you work at Verizon and have access to such monetary figures?
Dude, take your angst out on Verizon.. not me.. and seriously, see the above statement I just made.

There are TWO sets of figures I stated.. 1 was an "example" - but clearly, again, you chose not to "read" the post.. but, continuing with your ramble, ... the other sets of "figures" I posted are common fact - the clearing rate/percentage. So for that, I won't go any further. I own a business, I have a merchant account, MANY People have merchant accounts that post on line here.. and even if you don't have a business, the chances that people here have used PayPal is also VERY high and the fees are charged about the same. (A percentage of the transaction, and a $0.35 cent transaction fee)
If those were true, I'm tired of all these added fees being tacked on to what should be standard operating costs. People already pay VZ an arm and a damn leg for service...they can f'in afford to not charge the damned fee.
Then turn off the cell phone, go back to wire-line service and plan your day accordingly. Maybe taking a course in business would help you understand.. this is no insult, even thought you're sitting here ranting on me for what I said, being "insulted" - what ever that's about.. it's not my fault that you clearly don't understand, and chose not to read.
I'm sorry but, your post hit my hot button in the worst way. You pretty much say that anyone opposed to this are chronic late payment people....BS BS BS BS BS!
No I didn't.. do an EXACT quote, cut and paste..
That is not true.
You got SOMETHING right!
Then you try to hide that by saying "...or they don't trust auto-pay"....yet your entire argument is based on calling people late payers for wanting the one-time payment option without the fee.
You're great at putting words into people's mouths and twisting things to fit your "outrage"... too bad you can't make a living out of that.. oh wait, sure you can.. it's called A.M. Radio Talk Show Host - aka, Shock Jock.

But tell me something,.. if people who use 1 time credit card payments aren't in the category of people who either "pay late" or "don't trust auto pay".. then what else makes them up? I can think of more, but it's pretty obvious, in context, that if you don't trust auto pay, you're of the type that wants control of your financial future.. that's a subset of not trusting.. there is also those that really don't have a huge pool of liquid cash and may CHOSE how they pay their bill every month.. this month it may be CC, next month it may be a different card, it could be a check or cash in person..

But really - it doesn't matter, because you're too busy being "outraged" and having your "button pushed" to actually care to read.
I don't think so......
.. of course not.
No, I wasn't to busy being outraged to read. I was outraged because I read what you said. You quite simply were calling people opposed to the fee late payers while throwing it the line "or they don't trust auto-pay". That line there didn't fit into your your company K.A. babbling. No matter how you try and slice your bread sir, it is wrong to try and make people pay to pay their bill. Its not ok just because there are "other ways" to do it.

Now to what you said. Your view ISN'T valid. It is in fact MY money since it comes out of my checking account. I don't use CC to pay my monthly bills. So yeah, no f'in way is it right for Verizon to charge ME to take MY money. Yes fiber, it is MY money when using debit cards....why you ask? That's because if there wasn't money in my account to pay those bills, the transactions would immediately be denied when I hit "submit". So when it gets authorized and approved, the bank immediately knows my money is there to take...and they take it right away (at least locks that amount so it cannot be used for anything else....essentially, that's taking it right away).

Don't try and claim ignorance when discussing what I'm calling crap. Your veiled attempts to make yourself look smarter by trying to make me look dumb/claim to be above what I'm talking about doesn't work.

Your idea of it being OK to charge the fee just because other methods are available is weak at best. That argument simply cannot get passed the idea of "you simply can't charge people to pay their bill"...because its wrong no matter how you try to do it. I liken your asinine idea to this example. A person has two routes to walk home. One is a shortcut and one is not. The person goes the shortcut but gets robbed and wouldn't have if the person would've taken the longer way home. By your reasoning "oh, wait, its okay they got robbed because there was another way to go home". Your priorities are out of whack. You're ignoring what is really wrong because there are different options available. There should be no fee to pay one's bill no matter how you choose to pay it.

For the record, ALL my bills are paperless. I don't have any billing mistakes from Verizon (there are countless ongoing ones...you can find stories of them everywhere). Plus...I will not be affected by the fee as my VZ service is bundled with Qwest (assuming they were going to extend the fee to wireless customers as well). GASP! You're wondering then wth am I arguing for? Answer...because I believe in standing up for what is right against wrong minded individuals and decisions. My point in that statement was that Verizon wants that and now it wants this. They want complete control and want to charge you for not giving it to them. I also would say that you live in a world that doesn't exist by believing that everyone thinks its ok to be charged for paying their bill.

I shouldn't have to go back to a landline to avoid BS fees. If you're so happy about those fees get your nose a bit browner and continue to pay for it and be be happy about it. Your figures...post the proof....otherwise quit blowing figures out your rear to make your argument look good. If you post proof of those figures...I will stand corrected on them.

You multiple times claimed ignorance to what I'm talking about in a veiled attempt to make you and your argument look smarter. I did read what you said, I was offended AFTER I read ALL of it. Again, quite simply, you're entire argument surrounded the idea of calling fee opponents chronic late payers but, only throwing in "or doesn't trust auto-pay" for what is obviously no reason. While its true, that didn't fit with your entire ramble. Kind of like saying the words but, not really meaning it. If there is anything either of us missed...its you that missed the fact that I NEVER said that one time CC payers weren't either chronic late payers or don't trust autopay. You are now implying that I believe one time CC payers are neither. That is incorrect. I am of the not trusting autopay variety. I am arguing with you because your ramble insinuates they are only really chronic lay payers with only one line about not trusting autopay (which like I mentioned, didn't fit into your theme of just being about chronic late payments).

Fiber, if there was a misunderstanding its because there was only one line about "not trusting auto pay" in a sea of a single train of thought "believing we're all chronic late payers". Going on that, that is why I was offended by what you read. That is why I got upset. Anyway, I'm off to get my day started. If anything, we agree to disagree on this. Until next time.
Expand your moderator at work

WhyMeLord
@verizon.net

WhyMeLord to fiberguy2

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}}why don't you explain to me why it is that you believe you're entitled to have the ability to pay with a credit card, or ANY METHOD YOU CHOSE, basically, with out being charged a fee to do so? The fact is that you don't have some sort of constitutional right to pay with your visa card and not incur the convenience fee (appropriately named) when the merchant has to pay a fee TO take your money.{{

Basic tenent of Business 101 (taught in all business schools) the customer may (or may not) always be right but the customer is ALWAYS the customer.

VZN played such games with our wireless account. By VZN's judgment we were flat wrong. Being that the customer (right or wrong) is always the customer ... until VZN p*ssed us off and we're no longer THEIR customer.

Zman
@uh.edu

Zman

Anon

Re: Ripoff

Yeah you don't have a right to pay for free, but the entire reason companies pay the "convenience fee" is because they know that's how 90% of people pay. They accept credit cards because if they didn't they would lose customers. It will be interesting to see how many customers Verizon loses over this. I would drop them in a heart beat if they tried to force me into auto bill paying.

astiyosti
@cherokeenc.tv

astiyosti to fiberguy2

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to fiberguy2
one quick question about the fee direct tv doesn't charge a fee and what about McDonald's or restaurants they dont charge a fee. So next question how much is the actual fee that the company incurs. I am pretty sure verizon makes way more money than a simple on store chain of McDonald's.

Elector
join:2000-05-25
Albany, NY

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Quite Frankly, you are missing the point. Lets break this down:

1) If Verizon or any company "offers" the convenience of online bill payment via Credit or debit card, the company does so with the full knowledge that the customer has the choice and in many online payments there is no fees imposed. (Costs associated with processing the payments is far cheaper than costs of consumer collections). The fee of $3.50 is total greed on Verizon's part.

2) At many vendor sites ( Gas & Electric, Cell Phone, insert your payment here) there is no fee to the customer what so ever, unless its a need it that day payment. And that is usually done via the phone and requires a live person to handle it. A fee for that is clearly written into the terms and is understood so no complaint can be made about this type of payment.

3) Checks either mailed or submitted to an over the counter payment center have been and still are debited immediately via EFT so its like paying on line with a credit/debit card. And you only pay what is actually the correct amount and you the consumer have full control over the vendor and not the other way around.

4) There is mistakes done in many forms and Verizon is one of the worst in billing errors. (I know from personal experience) yet my account was paid automatically each month via credit card (NO FEE WHAT SO EVER) and when I had a dispute about the amount I simply called Verizon (Who lied and cajoled about the correction will be made yada yada yada and never was) via calling my card company who charged back the amount, and handled the issue with Verizon Telephone (Not wireless which has been very accurate and easy to deal with online and on the phone)

5) On Line Bill pay is beneficial to both the company and the customer. That is why Verizon and many others offer it. And I have never paid a fee for this online payment option. So this post did confuse me some what.

And for a closing laugh, my power company National Grid has an online payment feature and they send out no invoices which causes no postage to be used, but they do create a .PDF of your invoice for you to print out at home on your own paper and ink, yet on the last page for this "Going Green" option they still tack on .59 cents. Now that is a hoot.

maybe they are charging for the creation of the Adobe Acrobat file. Who knows.
EdmundGerber
join:2010-01-04

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said by fiberguy2:

said by Steve B:

You throw in the part about "people not trusting the auto-pay, etc" yet your entire post is based on saying that people who choose not to use auto-pay are chronic late payment people. I'm offended by that.
either don't trust auto-payments, which I don't blame them, OR, they're chronic late paying customers.
I'm sorry, but 'auto-offended' people don't do much for me. I know it's a pass-time for people to find what others say, in a free country, to be offended by what is said, and that's cool too as I support people's right to be offended just as much as I defend the rights for people to exercise their freedom to speak their mind,.. however, at LEAST be accurate in what you're rushing to be offended about. lol

So, based on what I said, and based on what you say about yourself about paying your bill on time, that you're of the side of people that just don't trust them with your information. So what's so hard about that? ("RIF" - google it)
I pay my bills on time, every month. I am never late. I hate auto-pay because companies, especially Verizon cannot be trusted to be accurate with their billing. Its been proven countless times.
Oh wait.. wait... waaaaaaait.. and there it is!! you ARE on the side of those that "EITHER DON'T" *trust them*... AMAZING!! (I take my bow now)
Also, why should anyone be charged to 1) be in control when money leaves their account, 2) to pay their bill, no matter how you do it 3) to avoid having to prove they (VZ) screwed up?
This is where we get into hypothetical and the why's and why not's of things.. but, before I waste my time explaining my view which is mostly valid anyway, why don't you explain to me why it is that you believe you're entitled to have the ability to pay with a credit card, or ANY METHOD YOU CHOSE, basically, with out being charged a fee to do so? The fact is that you don't have some sort of constitutional right to pay with your visa card and not incur the convenience fee (appropriately named) when the merchant has to pay a fee TO take your money. To be honest, when you pay with Visa, you're not paying with YOUR MONEY.. you're paying Verizon with VISA's money (or the bank's money) unless and until you pay your credit card bill. And, if you're using a debit card, you're STILL paying using bank money until and unless your transaction clears.. it's called risk. You don't actually pay for the good until you pay the bank.

So long as you have a free method to pay your bill, then you really have no valid argument.. you have a complaint, but it's not a complaint that holds a lot of water. The fact remains, and always will remain, that communication providers and utilities do not have to take your credit card payments.. they chose to do so, most honestly, in their best interest, as a way to ensure a quicker way to get your money. To be honest, the utility companies make it clear they don't want your credit card payments as they make it anything but free to do so in the first place.. they lose money doing so which is why they outsource the payment process to another company who takes them FOR them - in the case of most utilities.
I'm sorry but, if said company wants my money, they will have to be sure the bill is right before they take my money. No one should have to be charged for that crap.
You're right, once again, and are making two different arguments and trying to make them into one. You are not required to pay a bill that isn't right - so continue not to give your credit card information freely. Also, as I have also stated in other posts in this thread, you get a statement and they generally take your bill 20 days later on the "due date".. they don't take your money on the day they invoice you BEFORE they even give you your statement.. THAT ALONE is a violation of the Visa International merchant rules. So, if your bill is wrong, you have time to call and correct it. If your carrier or provider can't be trusted, then don't give them your credit card for auto payments - this should also be a sign of giving them your card number PERIOD. If they can't be trusted in ONE way with your payment info, then why would you trust them even with a one time payment? If you think that's a safe transaction, then you're a fool.

And once again, you are right.. you DON'T have to be charged for that crap (what ever it is you're talking about as crap anyway).. However, what YOU and others, don't realize and often forget, is that you're not entitled to use your credit card everywhere you go. The carriers don't HAVE to take your credit payment.. its a convenience to you. You still have a right to make your payment by check or other methods for free - exercise them. The fact is that you like many others think that once you have done something that you're entitled to have it always and it just isn't reality. Its a self inflicted notion.
Its also BS because they all bitch moan and groan for people wanting paper bills. They want people to use the computer. So most people now do and now they want to be in complete control of everything and charge you if you don't give it to them.
Many people PREFER paperless billing there buddy. You're living in a world that simply doesn't exist. You're one that believes that everyone else must be like you because you're so set in your own ways and beliefs. The fact is HOW you get your bill doesn't matter. In fact, it DOES save money the more people that view their bills in PDF form over having to print and mail it. Not to mention, you get it faster. This is YOUR choice, which IS your choice.. but, as the rest of the world migrates over and the cost to generate bills continues to rise (see the cost of postage these days) you're, how do you say it, "damn right" they're going to start passing the costs on to those that WANT a paper bill.. If you don't think that the desire and need to have bills available 24/7 is important to a lot of people, just see the "outrage" of the people who couldn't log in to the Sprint.com portal a few months back as the site was being migrated over... OH THE HELL people went through because they couldn't see something on-line. OH THE PAIN of having to look at their paper bill.. and OH THE MISERY of having to pick up a phone and talk to a live agent to say "hey, how much do I owe you again??" I hate to tell you this, but you're largely in the minority here of people that want that paper bill mailed out every month and ge angry like you are over this.
For all the damned billing mistakes VZ doles out, you bet your ass making credit card payments (one time or not) is a damn entitlement.
Seek help for that problem.
You list figures.....show the proof. Do you work at Verizon and have access to such monetary figures?
Dude, take your angst out on Verizon.. not me.. and seriously, see the above statement I just made.

There are TWO sets of figures I stated.. 1 was an "example" - but clearly, again, you chose not to "read" the post.. but, continuing with your ramble, ... the other sets of "figures" I posted are common fact - the clearing rate/percentage. So for that, I won't go any further. I own a business, I have a merchant account, MANY People have merchant accounts that post on line here.. and even if you don't have a business, the chances that people here have used PayPal is also VERY high and the fees are charged about the same. (A percentage of the transaction, and a $0.35 cent transaction fee)
If those were true, I'm tired of all these added fees being tacked on to what should be standard operating costs. People already pay VZ an arm and a damn leg for service...they can f'in afford to not charge the damned fee.
Then turn off the cell phone, go back to wire-line service and plan your day accordingly. Maybe taking a course in business would help you understand.. this is no insult, even thought you're sitting here ranting on me for what I said, being "insulted" - what ever that's about.. it's not my fault that you clearly don't understand, and chose not to read.
I'm sorry but, your post hit my hot button in the worst way. You pretty much say that anyone opposed to this are chronic late payment people....BS BS BS BS BS!
No I didn't.. do an EXACT quote, cut and paste..
That is not true.
You got SOMETHING right!
Then you try to hide that by saying "...or they don't trust auto-pay"....yet your entire argument is based on calling people late payers for wanting the one-time payment option without the fee.
You're great at putting words into people's mouths and twisting things to fit your "outrage"... too bad you can't make a living out of that.. oh wait, sure you can.. it's called A.M. Radio Talk Show Host - aka, Shock Jock.

But tell me something,.. if people who use 1 time credit card payments aren't in the category of people who either "pay late" or "don't trust auto pay".. then what else makes them up? I can think of more, but it's pretty obvious, in context, that if you don't trust auto pay, you're of the type that wants control of your financial future.. that's a subset of not trusting.. there is also those that really don't have a huge pool of liquid cash and may CHOSE how they pay their bill every month.. this month it may be CC, next month it may be a different card, it could be a check or cash in person..

But really - it doesn't matter, because you're too busy being "outraged" and having your "button pushed" to actually care to read.
I don't think so......
.. of course not.
Take his angst out on Verizon? I thought that was exactly what he was doing. What - you're claiming NOT to be a huge Verizon shill? Come on! You must think we're all blind.

Fucking shills....

antigauging
@verizon.net

1 recommendation

antigauging to fiberguy2

Anon

to fiberguy2
I'm sorry if my reply "offends" you (and your type of people). But, your replies are basically worthless. They make little practical sense, make way to many assumptions and are simply propaganda for corporate excuses for gauging people further.

To be so biased, you obviously profit in some way from FIOS. I, unlike you, don't have a huge pool of liquid cash (as you put it) and maybe have difficulty paying the overinflated and trumped up charges that Verizon gets away with. The "... sets of "figures" I posted are common fact..." are only facts to you and other unethical's who create the rules (facts) and change them at will as needed for their benefit.

We may not be 'entitled' to use are credit cards like you say, but it is a PRIVILEGE for companies to be allowed to accept credit card payments; the idea being they will gain more business by accepting credit cards, and you seem 'entitled' to charge for it, why?

To protect customers there is, or used to be, a law or regulation that c/c companies impose on business's that say the can't charge more for a product(or service) to a customer paying with a credit card as opposed to any other way. Cash discounts at gas stations several years ago come to mind here, but that 'gauging' was quickly stopped.

So, how is it now, that some companies can now get around that consumer protection and get away with gauging us the extra charges. They've found a loop-hole to convince the powers-that-be to allow them to do this. They make, or change the rules at will to serve themselves that allow them to benefit on the method of payment. Pure BS.

You say many people PREFER paperless billing, but still most people won't use it. And yes, I realize that corporations are trying to force customers to use it and love paperless statements since it saves them a large amount of money. But be damned if they pass any of that savings on to their customers. Anything to increase golden parachutes and executive bonus's, right!

So why? would anyone want to have paperless statements? I will refuse to use them. Their (your) answer will probably be to charge a "fee" to get a paper statement. One company does that now. And, until they change the laws/regulations, I will to "dispute" the charges on any bill where I don't get a detailed statement, and force them to prove that I owe the amount they say.

Your type of thinking is what has put this country on its knees financially, at least for all but the few elite that control and make the rules and de-regulate to allow their companies to police themselves. What an effin' joke.

Well, we will just have go by "our" rules of downloading, copying and using 3rd party cable boxes in an attempt to recoop a fraction of what they have gauged us for.
dogo88
join:2001-09-24
Old Bridge, NJ

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I've been using Autopay with Verizon for many years. Never had an issue.

WhyMeLord
@verizon.net

WhyMeLord to Steve B

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This is a smooth move on VZN's part. We run a small business and use CC/DC in our brick and mortar store and on line. My cost are much higher than VZN for process and I see no justification to p*ss (or on) my customer base like this.

Is no problem though. My bank will send a snail mail check to VZN which means VZN has to wait for their money, (no float) and pay a live body to process the check (which cost the same as processing my CC/debit card for a big dog merchant like VZN.

The money comes out of may account the same and I can do the deed on line. Again my bank gets the float.

It was games like these that caused us to pull ALL our wireless units from VZN and we had been customers for decades.
mhouse1712
join:2007-11-27
Georgia

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said by fiberguy2:

The truth is that there really is no difference in the discount rate or fee that a merchant is charged be it a one time payment or a recurring payment.

This is nothing more than Verizon, like anyone else, trying to offset late payments by customers (which has a real financial impact to Verizon) by encouraging on-time payments by having automatic payments drafted each month.

Here's the psychology to this..

Regular, on-time paying customers, won't mind signing up for this service to avoid the $3.50 fee. A good amount of people already use automatic payments to credit cards and then pay their credit card bills once a month and find it easier this way.

Those people who pay their bills when they have the time, either don't trust auto-payments, which I don't blame them, OR, they're chronic late paying customers. For this, Verizon doesn't care if these customers get charged $3.50.

And, in general, if a customer doesn't like this fee from Verizon, then many have the option to go to the OTHER guy and get their services. If there are no other services available, then they have even more choices to avoid the fee... mail in a check, go into a payment center.. use an online bill pay service.. just don't feel that making payments by credit card is an entitlement because it's not.

Verizon and the rest of the carriers lose about 1% to about 2% of their money to the bank for every customer that pays via credit card in merchant fees. Considering that most customers are paying with credit cards these days, look at how much money Verizon, TWC, Sprint, Comcast, Cox, etc. all lose/pay each month JUST to take your payment?

Take an example of a system of about 350K users with an average bill of $50 a month, and they all pay with a credit card.. that about 175K a month to the bank JUST to run the charges each month.

But back to my original statement... this is all on Verizon.. and in reality, I don't blame them. If they can offset and cut down on the amount of chronic late paying customers and run a cleaner monthly balance sheet, then they save money.. this is more like how the government uses taxes to try to control behavior. Sooner or later, it will be common place for people to say "Oh, I just have them hit my credit card once a month and save $3.50 a month off my bill.. I use my cc anyway for miles or bonuses"..

These fees, i can guarantee you, will continue to come, not go away.
Verizon eating the cost of credit card transactions(which, at the volume they are running, they are not paying full price for each transaction) is a part of doing business. Verizon's net income for 2009 was $6.707 billion USD, so Verizon can just accept their customer's money is whatever form is most convenient for the customer. If they cannot handle doing this, then they cannot handle being in business.

Verizon can just call the Universal Service Fee(which they lobbied to rip us, the customer, off for) they reward for giving us(the customer) more convenience. Seeing how Verizon(AT&T and other carriers as well) clears a lot of money from USFs, Verizon has nothing to complain about.

Your little example about it costing Verizon, as an example, $175 USD to run 350,000 customers' credit card charges, it the height of hilarity. So what if cost $175,000 to earn a revenue stream of $17,500,000? That leaves Verizon $17,235,000 USD for operating cost and a good portion for profit. I do not believe that any person or company should artificially have their ability to make money stymied, but at some point it becomes beyond stupid to harm the customer for a company's own greed.

If Verizon expects to draw in the maximum amount of customers, then they need to be willing to accept that certain(a lot) of customers are not going to allow Verizon, or any company, free access to their bank/credit card accounts to automatically charge them each month(or whatever the pay scheme is set as). If Verizon cannot handle customers doing business in, what is generally acceptable mean, then they need to roll of the carpet and close their doors.

I would rather go without any type of internet access, than pay Verizon a fee to take my payment. Stay away from companies that are doing this shady crap.

MadMANN3
Premium Member
join:2005-08-19

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What's more of a ripoff is that they are probably double-dipping. Companies that use third party vendors for electronic payments generally have already calculated these fees into the price of the service. By breaking this down into a fee, they can charge the exact amount that the vendor gets and the difference now belongs to the company.

My power company does the same thing. What I find hilarious is that you can pay your bill with a check or cash at a local payment center and they will apply your payment immediately with no extra charges. Yet, using the more up to date means of payment (website or phone payments) where virtually no manpower is required costs me $4.50.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Ripoff

Its not so much the vendor so much as it is the fee that the merchant processing bank charges TO take a credit card.. EVERY TIME you swipe your credit card at a merchant, gas station, utility company, ANYWHERE... the merchant is charged a fee. These fees are different based on the type of merchant, the type of card, and the type of presentation of the card information... When the card is not present (ie: internet based transactions or phone based) the fees are MUCH higher.. cards presented and swiped along with ID are much lower. Certain businesses also get charged a much higher rate than others such as gas stations versus a department store or restaurant based on HOW they handle a transaction and if the goods are more or less secured than the other.. if you charge for a service that is for more than the charge back period (if you're even allowed to as a merchant) then the fee is incredibly high. (An example would be an ISP that charges for a year of service up front, or Vonage on the Yearly Plan.. most banks/processors won't allow this unless there is money in an escrow account to handle charge-backs)

If you think the phone company is good at fees, then you should see a merchant agreement.

Does a company allow for certain overhead into the cost of a service? Yes, of course they do.. but, it's also considered an expense in many cases when it comes to merchant fees.

Good example: There is a pretty large independent grocery chain called Aldi - they never used to take credit cards, only some debit cards (along side an in-house ATM machine as well).. they finally realized that they couldn't NOT be taking credit cards anymore.. however, I also noticed that their prices all seemed to jump as well.

As to what you said, it's really not about manpower more so than it is the bank fee, the amount of people who are paying late and so on. And, late paying customers has an INCREDIBLE impact on manpower. Businesses budget and account for their customer base to pay on time each month. Of course, if they don't, there is a department and process, which has a manpower aspect behind it, to collect on those late paying customers. There are also those that get disconnected, and often never come back as customers. There most certainly is a cost factor to late paying customers, to which they're going to build fees in to those customers at highest risk of not paying on time.

jbgroup1
Non Conformist
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
Dayton, MD

jbgroup1

Premium Member

Re: Ripoff

said by fiberguy2:

Good example: There is a pretty large independent grocery chain called Aldi - they never used to take credit cards, only some debit cards (along side an in-house ATM machine as well).. they finally realized that they couldn't NOT be taking credit cards anymore.. however, I also noticed that their prices all seemed to jump as well.
In the area where I live Aldi only takes debit, cash and food stamps. I have never know Aldi to take credit cards and I have been shopping there since 1998.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Ripoff

You are correct in that they do not take "credit cards"... they do take visa/mc debit cards - ie check cards.. there's a smaller processing fee to handle them, usually, and different rules. They don't require only pin based transactions (ATM EFT) any more like they used to.

From aldi.com
"Do you accept Credit/Debit cards or the Electronic Benefits Transfer (EBT) card?
-At this time we do not accept Credit cards. We do however accept Debit cards. We also accept electronic benefit transfer (EBT)/link cards."

I use my Wells Fargo Visa Check/Debit card in there all the time when I go.
pepe7
join:2003-08-25

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Correct. A heavy discounter like Aldi won't want to deal with credit cards since it would cost them more to offer that payment option. Offering debit as a payment option to their customers costs them less on the back end in fees.
fuverizon6
join:2010-11-13
Westfield, NJ

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If you register online (it's for free), you can pay the bill WITHOUT being charged the $3.50.

Steve B
Premium Member
join:2004-08-02
Auburn, WA

2 edits

1 recommendation

Steve B

Premium Member

Qwest Tried This.....

....and it backfired....big time. There was such an uproar at essentially being charged to pay their damned bills. I am a Qwest customer and was not having it. Due to such a big backlash, Qwest relented. I hope the same happens for Verizon customers too.

**I wanted to add that the fee that Qwest was trying to levy was only $1.00. Verizon is going for $3.50. I'm sure there will be a backlash against this also.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Qwest Tried This.....

nope won't happen. VZ can't do no wrong. after all they have their FiOS that's better than slice bread.

FastiBook
join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA

1 edit

1 recommendation

FastiBook

Member

Paperless not enough?

I thought the savings from online stuff vs paper bills would more than offset the cost of the processing.... Auto pay isn't the best idea unless you always have more than the bill amount available. Non more than one instance folks who's pay periods were changed ended up missing paying on time, affecting other bill paying in the process. I could see this turning into a fiasco with one little glitch.

To quote a favorite movie: "a small problem with you always seems to turn into a major catastrophe".

- A

•••••••••••••••••••
tired_runner
Premium Member
join:2000-08-25
CT

tired_runner

Premium Member

No charge if you pay with bank account

Though, as Karl mentions, no way in hell I'd tie a bank account number with these dumbasses. Good luck getting refunded, Regulation E rules are stupid and do not protect the consumer.

••••••••••••
zolcos
join:2010-05-19
Houghton, MI

zolcos

Member

Circumvention

The credit card companies ought to fix their merchant agreements to close these loopholes.
The issue is that CC companies make merchants agree to several things in order to take card, one of which is that they cannot charge an extra fee for using a card (though merchants would love to do this to cover the CC processing fees).

A lot of places (especially utilities and similar companies) have found a way around this, which involves contracting all of their payment processing to a third party, which charges extra for CC transactions (which they can do because they don't deal with consumers and are therefore not considered a merchant) and then these charges are passed down to the consumer in the form of a "convenience fee".

Now, I'm no fan of CC companies either. I think it's BS that places like grocery stores have to raise thier prices to cover CC costs (thereby making all customers subsidize CC usage). This part of their agreement just protects CC companies from having to compete on the basis of processing fees. However, big companies like Verizon have found a way to leverage their scale to circumvent agreements that my indie online storefront would not be allowed to, and that's what gets me.

dbirdman
MVM
join:2003-07-07
usa

dbirdman

MVM

Re: Circumvention

said by zolcos:

The issue is that CC companies make merchants agree to several things in order to take card, one of which is that they cannot charge an extra fee for using a card (though merchants would love to do this to cover the CC processing fees).
The merchant agreement (which does not always require that, but often does) is trumped by the new Financial Reform Law, which specifically allows a difference between cash and credit pricing.

I don't know if that will lead to any significant amount of cash discounting other than fuel, only time will tell. As a merchant I figure that all forms of payment have costs. Checks bounce and incur fees, cash has robbery-insurance costs. My general position is "I don't care how you pay me, just pay me!"

MEDIAN2k3
Your Ad Here
Premium Member
join:2002-12-04
Howard Beach, NY

MEDIAN2k3

Premium Member

Registered?

I thought this only applied to those who are not setup with a online Verizon account, IE when you login from the main page of verizon.com?

If that is the case then I will be using my banks bill pay option, free and clear of that 3.50 charge.
cw30000
join:2008-07-11

cw30000

Member

Telecomm companies can do whatever they want

telecomm companies can do whatever they want. If you want their services, you are force to locked in to an annual agreement or two years agreements.

Honestly, how does this agreement protect us, the customers? I honestly don't understand why we accepted this as a norm.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Telecomm companies can do whatever they want

said by cw30000:

telecomm companies can do whatever they want. If you want their services, you are force to locked in to an annual agreement or two years agreements.
Another mis-informed consumer. Please, cw, tell us all where you are forced into a annual or two year agreement? Who exactly are these companies that are forcing you into these agreements...

Would these companies be the ones that say you can have a discounted phone/handset if you take an agreement OR pay full price for the phone and take no agreement? Or, is this the same company that says "free install and equipment with 18 month term" or "pay the full install with no contract"... would this also be the company that says "your monthly price will be $10 less with agreement" and "full price with no agreement"..

Where are you being "forced" as you say... or, are you just seeing the cheaper price and FEEL as if you're forced to do something to get the better price...

Please, stop with the mis-information because you're not forced to an agreement "IF YOU WANT THEIR SERVICES" which is what you just said.
Honestly, how does this agreement protect us, the customers? I honestly don't understand why we accepted this as a norm.
How? it's because you want the cheaper price, so you CHOSE to take the agreements... you're not required.

It's a fact that companies have to keep a customer X amount of months to recoup the advertising/marketing costs to GET you as a customer.. (it really is just a figure applied to the number of $ spend vs the customer's over all bill divided and averaged) but, they want customers to come and stay.. the longer they can count on your business, the more they can budget your monthly invoice.. if customers just come an go, the expenses and costs to operate business will rise in a competitive environment.

But, really, you don't have to take agreements - that's just you option, although not taking the agreement/contract isn't as appealing as it is to take the agreement.

On a side note, most people still don't get it. Most times its still cheaper to take the agreement, get the discount, and if not happy, pay the ETF and leave.. it's cheaper to do things that way rather than take the full price route to avoid a contract. Psych wise, customers don't process the total cost of ownership very well and they know it.

Broken Back
Premium Member
join:2002-05-19
Dallas, TX

1 edit

Broken Back

Premium Member

zolzos

He is right, I have taken CC from my customers for many years and the CC company says you can not charge any kind of fee to recover the use of a CC to the consumer.
JonBoySC
join:2009-06-26
Pickens, SC

JonBoySC

Member

Re: zolzos

You're right in saying that the company can not pass the fee onto the customer, but they can give discounts for other methods of payment (cash etc.). That is why so many places like gas stations give discounts for paying with cash.

This instance is blatantly obvious that a bogus fee is being passed onto the consumer.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: zolzos

Nope.. you're incorrect. They are adding in a cost of doing business (which is OFFERING credit cards as an option TO ALL CUSTOMERS) to all customers.

If you chose to pay cash, you truly are getting a discount as the merchant gets to retain their processing fee.

I'm sorry, this one I will fight you to the end on.. you can't discuss and explain this away like the bundle non-bundle discount argument as that targets an individual customer.

The amount they charge is based on the fact that ALL customers have the right to use cards.. it's also a fact that a merchant is less likely to be patronized by customers if they don't accept credit cards so it's almost a mandated fee that businesses take credit cards - which IS an expense and part of doing business.

Most business will see am average percent of their transactions be credit card based. Right now, my business takes 60% credit cards vs cash (which scares the hell out of me as that number is WAY too high)... so that amount is passed on, in average, as part of doing business to ALL customers. In my business, like many other small owners, there is no cash discount, and why is that? ... because it's also a fact that people who pay by credit card tend to have a higher ticket amount over that of cash customers.

For the most part, gas stations are the ones that give cash discounts these days.. others that do are an exception to the rule of normal.

So what "bogus fee" is being passed on to the customer? How is it "bogus" when there is a real fee being charged to the merchant? In order to take your card, the merchant loses a 1.5 to 2% amount of your total transaction, plus about $0.35 cents as well not to mention the statement fee, etc. There is a real cost to take cards, bud.

HarleyYac
Lee
Premium Member
join:2001-10-13
Allendale, NJ

HarleyYac

Premium Member

Paperless??! NO WAY!

Hi,
Trust me after the double billing fiasco and their bogus charges you will NOT want the paperless.
Lee
sphinxguy18
Premium Member
join:2008-01-13
Dallas, TX

sphinxguy18

Premium Member

Verizon's 3.50 Charge

Well, if anyone's going to be a 'Winner' in this it's going to be the United States Postal Service. If more and more companies are going to 'price squeeze' the end consumer, the more the consumer will go back writing checks and saving the 3.50. Opps, I'm sorry 3.06 (.44 for a stamp).

Can't wait to see when they start charging ALL their customers to pay the bill (ex: Telephone, Check, Walk-Up, Online, etc.). So they will continue to jack up their rates on their services AND charge you to pay the bill just because they can!

Where is the 'Attorney General' when you need him/her? This is utter B.S. and the worst part is I have FiOS service too!
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

Member

Federal Lawmaker pay off fee!

More Verizon BS. Should this fee be called the Federal Lawmaker campaign contribution fee. That $3.50 fee combined with the administrative charge must be used by Verizon to pay off lawmakers through campaign contributions. By contributing to Lawmakers campaigns, Verizon makes sure their Lawmaker in Washington stays where they can do the most good. Generous campaign contributions give Lawmakers an incentive to keep a blind eye on the way Verizon abuses customers. The campaign contributions also give Federal Lawmakers an incentive to sponsor and rubber stamp bills created by and are favorable to Verizon.

MrStanFan
join:2010-09-19

MrStanFan

Member

At this rate

Soon it will be a fee for everything just to pay them. They already charge over the phone .. and now online.. Do they charge if you send them a check by mail?
caco
Premium Member
join:2005-03-10
Whittier, AK

caco

Premium Member

More like a credit card processing fee

More and more companies are doing this since all those credit card regulation passed a couple of mornths ago. It all trickles down to consumer. Credit card companies got hit with regulation- in turn the pass cost of new regulation to merchants- merchants pass it on to their customers. Sucks but at least it is not 3-10% of payment like some other companies are doing. Verizon has too many billing issues for me to trust them with auto-pay. IMO go with online billpay thru your bank and call it a day.
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

i smell class action

lots of verizon customers are going to lawyer up for this one... this fee has class action written all over it!!!!

$3.50 to process a $100 charge is very high considering your doing THEM a favor by not mailing in a check every month and paying an employee to process them. verizon should be paying YOU $3.50 to do electronic processing of payments. you KNOW this will end up in a cable-tv ad sooner or later... it's very laughable for those tetering on the fence to switch providers.

mikesterr
join:2008-04-18
Sanford, FL

mikesterr

Member

Re: i smell class action

They have been charging the $3.50 for about 7 or 8 years now if you pay by phone. It was only a matter of time to move the charge to Online. I'm shocked it took this long. But having done this for so long I doubt any Class action suite can come out of an established process.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

1 edit

88615298 (banned)

Member

Also charge to pay in person

If you have Verizon cell service they charge $3 to pay your bill in person. So basically Verizon wants to charge you just to pay your bill.

••••

MuDvAyNe
Premium Member
join:2002-03-02
Brooklyn, NY

MuDvAyNe

Premium Member

New customer semi-pissed

I try not to use my credit cards much especially in this economy and situation. I just had FIOS internet installed and never received a bill. I call today and was told that since I only have FIOS internet, the only way to pay this bill is using a Credit Card online. Gee thanks for explaining that when I signed up. Now I am enrolled in Auto Pay just to avoid getting charged an extra $3.50. Verizon service is solid and so is their cell service, but the billing is just horrible. This company would be amazing if they could fix this area!

DC DSL
There's a reason I'm Command.
Premium Member
join:2000-07-30
Washington, DC

DC DSL

Premium Member

I haven't seen this yet...

The fee for landline payments must either be regional or not fully rolled-out. I'm in DC and just paid my both my landline and wireless bills on their website a few minutes ago using my debit card and did not get dinged with this fee.

•••

mb6
join:2000-07-23
Washington, NJ
Netgear CM1150V
Netgear R7800

mb6

Member

Simple

Pay with a check by mail. Things are going full circle. It will cost Verizon more to process and may eventually lead to a discount for paying electronically. Anyone remember the days when all ATM transactions were free because it saved the banks money?

minimeme
@verizon.net

minimeme

Anon

Re: Simple

said by mb6:

Pay with a check by mail. Things are going full circle. It will cost Verizon more to process and may eventually lead to a discount for paying electronically. Anyone remember the days when all ATM transactions were free because it saved the banks money?
yep,
pay almost all my bills by check via snail mail still.

verizon sounds almost as stupid and greedy as the riaa!!

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
Asus RT-AX89

aaronwt

Premium Member

Re: Simple

said by minimeme :

said by mb6:

Pay with a check by mail. Things are going full circle. It will cost Verizon more to process and may eventually lead to a discount for paying electronically. Anyone remember the days when all ATM transactions were free because it saved the banks money?
yep,
pay almost all my bills by check via snail mail still.

verizon sounds almost as stupid and greedy as the riaa!!
Ouch!! I stopped that sixteen years ago. And the last time I wrote a check was in the 20th century too.
First I started using a bill paying service that was access by phone. And then as more and more places allowed you to pay online I gradualy switched to that.

Mike
Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
·Verizon FiOS

Mike

Mod

If Comcast were crafty

Since they're losing ground with FiOS this is a good time to give Verizon a bit marketing FU.

Make an advertising package bringing this up and as for "sympathy" for random raising rates, remind that there is no fee, and actually cut $3.50 per month from fios-like service plans.

They know they will raise rates again and make up for lost ground in a a few months.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: If Comcast were crafty

oh give the MSOs time they'll do it.

urdrwho
join:2006-10-10

urdrwho to Mike

Member

to Mike
When the price point for cable 10Mb gets to $25 a month, they'll get my business. I am surprised they haven't done it.

Oh wait....they have no competition. In my area there is no FIOS so anyone 18,000 feet out there must take cable.

Although the 4G Clear network is in my area but their pricing is still a bit high. That will change.

jchambers28
Premium Member
join:2007-05-12
Peculiar, MO

jchambers28

Premium Member

avoid verizon

sounds like to me you have to avoid Verizon like the plague.

lew_b
Premium Member
join:2003-05-11
Poughkeepsie, NY

lew_b

Premium Member

Re: avoid verizon

I have been paying with a CC due to the convenience and to rack up more points on the CC. 3.50/month ? F* that, I'll cut them a 'check' thru my FREE BILL PAY

HarleyYac
Lee
Premium Member
join:2001-10-13
Allendale, NJ

HarleyYac

Premium Member

Re: avoid verizon

Agree. I use my Online Billpay from my bank.. FREE... (so far )
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