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Verizon Announces Open Access Conference
At which, hopefully, they'll tell you what you'll pay...

A few months ago Verizon Wireless was slathered with media love for announcing they'd be opening up their wireless network. If you dug deeper, you found that what Verizon meant was that they'd be offering a service tier that allows users to connect any approved CDMA device to the network. They'll still be heavily promoting their crippled phones to the majority of customers, but they'll be at least giving the option of open-access. Of course you'll probably be charged a steep premium for the privilege.


Today the company announced they'll be hosting an Open Development conference in March, hosted by a think tank named the New America Foundation. Verizon's Open Development Initiative will use the conference to promote and discuss Verizon's plans to encourage development of devices capable of running on Verizon's CDMA network.
quote:
"This initial conference is for developers of devices – because before consumers can have open access, you have to have open development," said [Anthony A. Lewis, Verizon Wireless VP of ODI]. "In hosting this conference, our aim is to jump start the development community by sharing information needed to develop devices for our network that achieve our network performance goals while making it easy for them to deliver devices."
At this point Verizon's push remains more public relations than substance, but you've got to start somewhere. You'll be seeing more substantive announcements (such as what it will cost you for open access) in just a few months.
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jgkolt
Premium Member
join:2004-02-21
Avon, OH

jgkolt

Premium Member

blackberry gps

does this mean we can legitimately free the bb from having to use verizons gps to our own?

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Transmaster

Member

Terminate!

I am the Supereme Dalek, if I can't get onto the Verizon network I WILL TERMINATE
cornelius785
join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA

cornelius785

Member

Re: Terminate!

epic fail. it is 'EXTERMINATE'.

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Transmaster

Member

Re: Terminate!

said by cornelius785:

epic fail. it is 'EXTERMINATE'.
Oh Damn you are right, it been awhile since I have watched Dr. Who.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Better for Promoting CDMA Abroad

Verizon has a vested interest in promoting CDMA as a new global standard for cell phone service. This "initiative" is all about copying one of the key features that GSM-based providers have been offering for years... the ability to quickly and easily move your equipment and service from one provider to another.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

1 recommendation

wifi4milez

Member

Re: Better for Promoting CDMA Abroad

said by pnh102:

Verizon has a vested interest in promoting CDMA as a new global standard for cell phone service. This "initiative" is all about copying one of the key features that GSM-based providers have been offering for years... the ability to quickly and easily move your equipment and service from one provider to another.
Apparently CDMA is actually going away in the next few years. The 4G roadmaps all include non CDMA variants as their core! Assuming all goes according to plan, Verizon will be a GSM provider sometime between 2010 and 2020.

»news.vzw.com/news/2007/1 ··· -29.html

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Re: Better for Promoting CDMA Abroad

said by wifi4milez:

Apparently CDMA is actually going away in the next few years. The 4G roadmaps all include non CDMA variants as their core! Assuming all goes according to plan, Verizon will be a GSM provider sometime between 2010 and 2020.
Interesting. I remember when 3G GSM services were deployed by AT&T, they were based off CDMA technologies, but they weren't directly compatible with CDMA. That is, you couldn't take a 3G CDMA device and roam on a 3G "GSM" network. I am wondering if the GSM-based 4G solution would work in the same manner.

Also, I can't picture Verizon simply throwing away its existing CDMA-based infrastructure.

»www.cdg.org/worldwide/index.asp

The above is the status of CDMA worldwide.
amungus
Premium Member
join:2004-11-26
America

amungus

Premium Member

Re: Better for Promoting CDMA Abroad

Cool link. Wondered how CDMA was doing...

I see little reason CDMA couldn't incorporate a SIM card type system. It's just a wireless standard is it not? I mean, the network can adapt to a new handset quickly enough, so there should be little technical reason for this NOT to work (eventually...).

I'm no wireless expert, but it seems like this might be an obvious idea - to be able to take a phone (say, CDMA) and use it on any network of the same type...
I don't see the sense in keeping it so locked down if it's the same exact underlying technology.

One should be able to buy any (for example, CDMA) Nokia, Motorola, whatever, and activate it on the plan of your choice.

All that marketing speak about "OUR network standards.." sounds like crap to me. It's CDMA, is it not? There are already standards by which these things work...

bobjohnson
Premium Member
join:2007-02-03
Spartanburg, SC

bobjohnson

Premium Member

Re: Better for Promoting CDMA Abroad

Why couldnt they just make sim based cdma phones, thats what nextel did and iden is just tdma..
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

Re: Better for Promoting CDMA Abroad

They do, its called a RUIM, no North American CDMA provider uses it. Blame the cell companies, not the equipment makers, some cellphones have the slots under the batteries, or atleast traces on the PCB for a RUIM card. Having no cards means they can charge you for a phonebook transfer, and a non-geek is at their mercy. Nor can you switch phones without their approval (another fee and only their handsets can be used), plus they can control what phones go on what tiers more easily (they can still always block by ESN (CDMA)/IMSI (GSM)) (a million ways to get more $).

NOCMan
MadMacHatter
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO

1 recommendation

NOCMan to pnh102

Premium Member

to pnh102
VZ has alredy announced that they will migrate with AT&T and other international carriers to LTE.

Conversions are easy. Cell towers are capable of having more than one radio. Some have 5-10 radios. Replace one radio with a LTE radio and as demand increase and CDMA sets decrease you add more LTE radios while taking away CDMA radios.

That's how the TDMA to CDMA conversions went.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to pnh102

Premium Member

to pnh102
Verizon already announced going to LTE:
»Verizon Wireless Picks 100Mbps LTE

Jwobot
join:2002-08-14
Sterling Heights, MI

Jwobot to wifi4milez

Member

to wifi4milez
Awesome. All the phones I want to use on my Verizon service are GSM based.

GSMUser
@myvzw.com

GSMUser to wifi4milez

Anon

to wifi4milez

LTE is not GSM. LTE is an IP-Based network infrastructure and doesn't share the same core network as current day CDMA or GSM networks.

I think people get confused because the GSM Association chose LTE as their upgrade standard of choice. People now associate LTE with GSM when it is anything but.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

wifi4milez

Member

Re: Better for Promoting CDMA Abroad

said by GSMUser :

LTE is not GSM. LTE is an IP-Based network infrastructure and doesn't share the same core network as current day CDMA or GSM networks.

I think people get confused because the GSM Association chose LTE as their upgrade standard of choice. People now associate LTE with GSM when it is anything but.
Not entirely. LTE is an evolution of UMTS, which is itself an evolution (and based on) GSM. So while LTE is a new standard, it is based on, and composed of, GSM standards.

AllCingularUser
@umusic.com

AllCingularUser

Anon

Re: Better for Promoting CDMA Abroad

What part of LTE is GSM? UMTS uses a CDMA (WCDMA) air interface. GSM uses a TDMA core. Completely different regardless of what "path," any particular carrier chooses.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

wifi4milez

Member

Re: Better for Promoting CDMA Abroad

said by AllCingularUser :

What part of LTE is GSM? UMTS uses a CDMA (WCDMA) air interface. GSM uses a TDMA core. Completely different regardless of what "path," any particular carrier chooses.
Huh?? Do some proper research buddy. UMTS is the evolution of GSM, and is based on the standard. LTE is also the evolution of UMTS and GSM, and is likewise based on the standard. Yes, each evolution utilizes new technologies (such as W-CDMA), however that doesnt change their core design.
said by UMTS Technical Description :
UMTS, the 3G successor to GSM which utilizes the W-CDMA air interface and GSM infrastructures.
said by UMTS Technical Description :
UMTS combines the W-CDMA, TD-CDMA, or TD-SCDMA air interfaces, GSM's Mobile Application Part (MAP) core, and the GSM family of speech codecs. In the most popular cellular mobile telephone variant of UMTS, W-CDMA is currently used.
I could quote many more lines explaining this in detail, but I will let you read it yourself and get a leg up on things.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Un ··· s_System

Howard F
@myvzw.com

Howard F

Anon

Re: Better for Promoting CDMA Abroad


All you quoted proves that UMTS is CDMA based (on the airlink - WCDMA) like the other guys said. You didn't prove that LTE is a natural evolution of GSM.

Don't confuse GSM with WCDMA and WCDMA with LTE either.

Like the other poster said. LTE is IP-based (OFDM for the downlink). What part of GSM is IP-based?

There will be no simple software upgrade from UMTS/HSDPA sites. They will require completely new hardware. There is NO guarantee that calls that originate on the old 2G GSM network or the newer WCDMA network will soft handoff to any LTE technology.

With the stock market the way it is and the way AT&T moves as slow as molasses with their technology rollouts, I don't see them really rushing to roll LTE out either. I'm sure Vodafone and Verizon will market the technology much sooner.

"Natural progression," in this case implies that the greater majority of GSM operators that are part of the "Association," mutually agreed that they'd unanimously migrate to a new standard. From a cost perspective, the move to LTE made much more sense since it required less bandwidth to operate with while allowing the various telcos to stay within budget. This was clearly a pure politics and money based decision.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

wifi4milez

Member

Re: Better for Promoting CDMA Abroad

said by Howard F :

All you quoted proves that UMTS is CDMA based (on the airlink - WCDMA) like the other guys said. You didn't prove that LTE is a natural evolution of GSM.
You missed the point as well. GSM evolved to EDGE, which then evolved to UMTS. HSPA is an extension/evolution of UMTS. LTE is the next evolution of all the prior services, again, based on the core GSM design. For your reading pleasure:
said by LTE Technical Description :
3GPP LTE (Long Term Evolution) is the name given to a project within the Third Generation Partnership Project to improve the UMTS mobile phone standard to cope with future requirements. Goals include improving efficiency, lowering costs, improving services, making use of new spectrum opportunities, and better integration with other open standards. The LTE project is not a standard, but it will result in the new evolved release 8 of the UMTS standard, including mostly or wholly extensions and modifications of the UMTS system
said by Howard F :

There will be no simple software upgrade from UMTS/HSDPA sites. They will require completely new hardware. There is NO guarantee that calls that originate on the old 2G GSM network or the newer WCDMA network will soft handoff to any LTE technology.
Again, you missed the point. UMTS wasnt a simple software upgrade from GSM/EDGE either! NEW equipment has been required at each major "jump" in technology. The same applies with LTE. This is nothing new, and has happened multiple times already. Simply because equipment upgrades are required, in no way precludes something from being evolutionary.

The full description, along with the evolutionary lineage (along the right hand side) can be found at the following link:

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3G ··· volution

Mobile communication standards
GSM / UMTS (3GPP) Family
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2G
GSM
GPRS
EDGE (EGPRS)
EDGE Evolution
HSCSD

3G
UMTS (3GSM)
HSPA
HSDPA
HSUPA
HSPA+
UMTS-TDD
TD-CDMA
TD-SCDMA
FOMA

Pre-4G
UMTS Revision 8
LTE
HSOPA (Super 3G)
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88 to AllCingularUser

Member

to AllCingularUser
CDMA is a digital modulation scheme, involing vectors, walsh codes, and psudorandom numbers. Nothing more.

Qualcomm Corp, makes a product called "IS2000" also called "CDMA2000", it is an upgrade of "IS-95", also there is a product called "IS-856, aka "EVDO". These are protocols that use CDMA modulation/multiple access. CDMA is a digital modulation/encoding, nothing more. It doesn't allow for cellphone, phone calls, internet, or anything else, it only allows multiple users on 1 communication medium.

GSM family decided to use CDMA modulation since it was more efficient than TDMA used in GSM. Their product is called "WCDMA", WCDMA and CDMA2000 only share a digital mutiple access technology, nothing more.

Are you also going to say next that sim-less old ATT Wireless handsets, also called "TDMA" are the same thing as GSM handsets?