 PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13 Baltimore, MD | How much can you scale back? How much can you scale back when you're already cherry picking half the neighborhoods you build out in in the first place? | |
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 |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY
| Re: How much can you scale back? said by PapaMidnight :How much can you scale back when you're already cherry picking half the neighborhoods you build out in in the first place? Maintain nothing, collect fines, have your shell LLC declare bankruptcy, buy it in court under liquidation for pennies on the dollar. | |
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  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| So Massachusetts Should Listen Considering that Massachusetts recently passed a law that would stimulate the economy of southern New Hampshire (MA raised its sales tax), I can't imagine that the pols there are smart enough to understand the gravity of this threat. -- Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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  kyler13 Is your fiber grounded?
join:2006-12-12 Arnold, MD
| Ultimatum Mass to Verizon: Please pay taxes or pull your poles immediately. You can't because of your federally mandated traditional copper phone network? Guess that leaves one option, then. And if you decide to shelf FIOS deployment, good luck selling your DSL opposite DOCSIS 3.0 deployment.
Seriously, when will gov't learn? | |
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 |  |   stevek1949 We're not in Kansas anymore
join:2002-11-13 Virginia Beach, VA | Re: Ultimatum There is no such thing as a business tax. It is treated as a cost of doing business. The costs are always passed on to the consumer as increased rates. Nothing new here. | |
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 |  |  |   calvoiper
join:2003-03-31 Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: Ultimatum Yes, but to pass these costs along, a landline telco may have to undergo a rate case or similar proceeding.
No big deal in a normal world, but a cardinal rule in these cases is that ALL costs get examined--strangely, utilities always bring up rising costs but forget about dropping costs unless prodded.
What Verizon really wants to avoid is having all of its costs examined, for the regulators may find that -SURPRISE!- in a world of decreasing costs for electronic equipment, some of Verizon's costs may be overstated....
calvoiper -- VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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 |   AMDUSER Premium join:2003-05-28 Earth clubs: | Why not use emminent domain to seize the poles.. and charge them rent to connect to them. [It will pay for itself- immediately..] | |
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 |  |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY | Re: Ultimatum Why doesn't the power company own them? What, it rents them? | |
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 |  |  |   ScottMo Premium,MVM join:2000-12-15 Stony Brook, NY | Re: Ultimatum On poles the power company connects to it usually jointly owns them (and pays tax on half). | |
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 |  |  |
 RJ44
join:2001-10-19 Nashville, TN
| What threat? "The threat to pull FiOS isn't new..."
"Santoro said Verizon is still committed to building its FIOS fiber-optic broadband service in Massachusetts, but that other big-ticket network upgrades might be shelved if its property tax bill increases."
I don't see where there's any threat to scale back FIOS deployment here. Maybe it's somewhere in the fine print or buried in one of those links, but it would be nice if the news department here didn't contradict their own assertions, apparently without even realizing they've done so. | |
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 |   ptrowski Got Helix? Premium join:2005-03-14 Putnam, CT clubs: | Re: What threat? Of course they are not going to physically pull the fiber. It's a term used to stop deployment or bring it to a crawl. | |
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 |  |  RJ44
join:2001-10-19 Nashville, TN
| Re: What threat? said by ptrowski :Of course they are not going to physically pull the fiber. It's a term used to stop deployment or bring it to a crawl. Huh? The Verizon spokesman said (quoting the article) "Santoro said Verizon is still committed to building its FIOS fiber-optic broadband service in Massachusetts".
How is that a threat to FIOS deployment? | |
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 |  |  |   ptrowski Got Helix? Premium join:2005-03-14 Putnam, CT clubs:
·VOIPo
·Metrocast Communic..
·AT&T DSL Service
·ViaTalk
| Re: What threat? said by RJ44 :said by ptrowski :Of course they are not going to physically pull the fiber. It's a term used to stop deployment or bring it to a crawl. Huh? The Verizon spokesman said (quoting the article) "Santoro said Verizon is still committed to building its FIOS fiber-optic broadband service in Massachusetts". How is that a threat to FIOS deployment? The threat would be the speed that it takes. Technically they could light up one community in the year and still say they are building it out. They can slow the pace considerably. -- "So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org | |
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 |  |  |  |  RJ44
join:2001-10-19 Nashville, TN | Re: What threat? There WAS no threat to FIOS deployment in that statement.
I see the headline has now been changed to reflect that. Less sensationalistic, but much more accurate. | |
|
  BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| Verizon obviously doesn't hire math whizzes This carrot and a stick approach to lobbying usually works pretty well, particularly considering that Verizon's lobbying budget well exceeds the amount they owe the State
that would be like me spending $2000 on lawyers to avoid $1000 in taxes. DOES NOT COMPUTE. | |
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 |  SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| Re: Verizon obviously doesn't hire math whizzes said by BF69 :This carrot and a stick approach to lobbying usually works pretty well, particularly considering that Verizon's lobbying budget well exceeds the amount they owe the Statethat would be like me spending $2000 on lawyers to avoid $1000 in taxes. DOES NOT COMPUTE. You're applying common sense because you have a limited budget. VZ does not care how much money it has to spend because its pockets are deeper than god's. | |
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 |   TKJunkMail Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| said by BF69 :This carrot and a stick approach to lobbying usually works pretty well, particularly considering that Verizon's lobbying budget well exceeds the amount they owe the Statethat would be like me spending $2000 on lawyers to avoid $1000 in taxes. DOES NOT COMPUTE. But it has a deterrent effect. If the state loses once again they are LESS likely to attempt further tax increases down the line.
And why are they trying to tax telephone poles anyway for real estate taxes? Buildings I can see, but not poles. That is really stupid since taxes will just be passed on anyway to telco customers.
Oh wait !! I forgot. Pols always try to pass tax increases that are done on the sly where they are hidden in the cost of a company's doing business. The state needs more money. The straight forward way would be to raise income taxes or sales taxes, etc. But that makes the voters mad. By taxing businesses, they hope the voters won't notice and will be mad at the businesses for raising prices instead. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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 |  |  backness
join:2005-07-08 K2P OW2
| Re: Verizon obviously doesn't hire math whizzes Interesting logic.
Why should some be excluded from taxation while others pay? McDonalds pays for their property to be in business. Residents pay their taxes on their property and income (and also on any improvements). Why do you set a double standard for a telco? | |
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 |  |  |  |  SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| Re: Verizon obviously doesn't hire math whizzes said by TKJunkMail : I don't think there should be any corporate taxes at all since they are merely passed on to customers in any case. Obviously you must mean all those taxes the rest of us pay so that corporations can collect welfare later on after 2/3rds of their profits have been safely offshored from the prying eyes of the IRS. Yep. Consumers sure do see a ::SIGNIFICANT:: reduction in their taxes...particularly the kind that go towards bailouts for bankers and American vehicle manufacturers. | |
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 |  |  |  |  backness
join:2005-07-08 K2P OW2
| I'm not cheering anything. Being part of society has certain obligations. You don't get the benefits of protection of the American Legal system for free you know. I'll ask you why a company should be allowed to use the country for its own gain but return nothing to it.
As for the corporate taxes not affecting shareholders, do you even own any stock? I hate to say it but bottom line earnings are calculated AFTER income taxes.
Keep digging.
Sorry to feed the trolls  | |
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 |  |  |  |  sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24 Cleveland, OH
| said by TKJunkMail :said by backness :Interesting logic. Why should some be excluded from taxation while others pay? McDonalds pays for their property to be in business. Residents pay their taxes on their property and income (and also on any improvements). Why do you set a double standard for a telco? I don't. I don't think there should be any corporate taxes at all since they are merely passed on to customers in any case. Taxes on corporations are merely ways for cowardly & deceitful politicians to hide their money grabs. And besides, corporate taxes are regressive because they always hit the customers and NOT the stockholders. So those least likely to be able to afford higher taxes are the ones who really pay for corporate taxes. If politicians were honest(ROTFLMAO) they would pass more progessive income taxes and not corporate taxes. But they are bought & paid for by the richest Americans. The fact that all these uninformed voters RANT CONSTANTLY about corporate taxes shows that the politicians have FOOLED most of the people. But believe me, the rich aren't fooled. So, cheer on all the corporate taxes you want, because if they do that instead of raising income tax rates, I'll laugh all the way to the bank. There seems to be relatively irrational belief among many conservatives that corporate taxes are simply passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices. It leaves out the obvious - if companies felt they could simply raise prices, they'd do it whether there were taxes or not. After all, why leave money on the table? Conversely, if they feel the consumer is already paying as much as the consumer is willing to bear, they'll be very careful about passing on any increases in their own costs, and if there are any new costs (including taxes) they'll probably absorb the bulk of them. Put another way - he who is desperate pays, and he who is more desperate pays more. If the seller's supply curve is more inelastic than the buyer's demand curve, the seller will absorb more of the taxes - even taxes on the buyer. If the buyer's demand curve is more inelastic, the buyer will absorb of taxes, including corporate taxes. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Verizon obviously doesn't hire math whizzes said by sonicmerlin :There seems to be relatively irrational belief among many conservatives that corporate taxes are simply passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices. It is hardly irrational because it is a 100% irrefutable fact. It is the economic version of the law of gravity.
And it isn't just taxes, every business expense is recouped from the customer.
said by sonicmerlin :It leaves out the obvious - if companies felt they could simply raise prices, they'd do it whether there were taxes or not. You ignore the fact that a business charges the highest possible price for a given product or service already. If a business raises its prices at this point, it risks losing sales. If sales decline and profit is lost or if after paying the tax there is too little profit (or a loss), the business might decide that providing the given product or service simply isn't worth the money.
Either way, the consumer pays the bill. -- Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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 |  |  |  |  jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04 USA | You can't alway pass on these taxes to the customers in all business if you can't set your own rates. Believe me, I know from experience. Not all corporations pass increases in tax to their customers. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   TKJunkMail Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Verizon obviously doesn't hire math whizzes said by jjeffeory :You can't alway pass on these taxes to the customers in all business if you can't set your own rates. Believe me, I know from experience. Not all corporations pass increases in tax to their customers. True. Those corporations go broke and go out of business or move to Asia. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24 Cleveland, OH
| Re: Verizon obviously doesn't hire math whizzes said by TKJunkMail :said by jjeffeory :You can't alway pass on these taxes to the customers in all business if you can't set your own rates. Believe me, I know from experience. Not all corporations pass increases in tax to their customers. True. Those corporations go broke and go out of business or move to Asia. Considering the billions in profit Verizon makes each year, and the hundreds of millions in debt it was able to write off with its deal with Fairpoint, and considering they have duopolistic control with AT&T over special access lines through which they can charge artificially marked up prices, I doubt Verizon's going to go broke any time soon. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   Big Pete 82
join:2009-01-30 Corona, CA
·Verizon FIOS
| said by jjeffeory :You can't alway pass on these taxes to the customers in all business if you can't set your own rates. Believe me, I know from experience. Not all corporations pass increases in tax to their customers. In the world of telco's you sure can. When they only ever have one or two competitors, its easy for them to just pass on the tax to their customers. Take a look at your phone bill and look at all the taxes and fees they are passing on to you. | |
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 |  |  |  nasadude
join:2001-10-05 Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| said by backness :...Why do you set a double standard for a telco? because he's a free market man and whatever business wants, business should get. business is the be-all and end-all for the U S of A and we don't want to mess with the utopian paradise the U.S. has become. | |
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 |  |  |  |   Big Pete 82
join:2009-01-30 Corona, CA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Verizon obviously doesn't hire math whizzes You say "free market" like its a bad thing. Last time I walked into a Walmart or Best buy, I could literally see thousands of products from all over the world. You can choose between cheaper products, higher quality products, products made here in the US, products made from all over, all thanks to this terrible "free market."
I work for one of these so called "evil" corporations, and I want it to have all the tax breaks it can, because the more competitive it is, the safer my job is.
Some of you people forget that these companies actually put food on the table for hundreds, even thousands of people just like you and me. Excessive taxation doesn't give them any incentive to stick around the US. In the end, they are providing a product or service to people and giving people jobs, why not allow them to do it in the most competitive way possible? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  See 6 replies to this post |
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 |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| said by TKJunkMail :And why are they trying to tax telephone poles anyway for real estate taxes? Buildings I can see, but not poles. Am I the only one that finds it odd that the state wants to collect property taxes from VZ for "public" property? Also, doesn't VZ already pay franchise fees that were negotiated for use of the public property in the first place? | |
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 |  |  jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04 USA
| said by TKJunkMail :said by BF69 :This carrot and a stick approach to lobbying usually works pretty well, particularly considering that Verizon's lobbying budget well exceeds the amount they owe the Statethat would be like me spending $2000 on lawyers to avoid $1000 in taxes. DOES NOT COMPUTE. But it has a deterrent effect. If the state loses once again they are LESS likely to attempt further tax increases down the line. And why are they trying to tax telephone poles anyway for real estate taxes? Buildings I can see, but not poles. That is really stupid since taxes will just be passed on anyway to telco customers. Oh wait !! I forgot. Pols always try to pass tax increases that are done on the sly where they are hidden in the cost of a company's doing business. The state needs more money. The straight forward way would be to raise income taxes or sales taxes, etc. But that makes the voters mad. By taxing businesses, they hope the voters won't notice and will be mad at the businesses for raising prices instead. Maybe if they shrank the gov't they wouldn't need more taxes? The people in NH and ME love to joke about "Taxachusetts". | |
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 |  |   Ebolla
join:2005-09-28 Dracut, MA
| said by TKJunkMail :The state needs more money. The straight forward way would be to raise income taxes or sales taxes, etc. But that makes the voters mad. By taxing businesses, they hope the voters won't notice and will be mad at the businesses for raising prices instead. For the record they DID just raise sales tax, MA also requires all residents to have health insurance or you get a fine. They also are going to cut educational budget. MA is beginning to look like N.Korea... | |
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 |  bicker
join:2007-05-10 Burlington, MA | Of course it does: Far better to pay $2000 to ensure that you don't have to pay $1000 per year in taxes. | |
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 bigjimc
join:2003-04-21 Middleboro, MA
| FiOS Rollout On Hold I have FiOS at my home but at my rural office, the rollout was suspended due back in Feb 2008. It was half rolled out in an adjacent community then stopped.
The copper phone wires are so antiquated that the POTS service is abysmal.
But I still shed no tears for Verizon. | |
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 |   John Galt Forward, March Premium join:2004-09-30 Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| Re: FiOS Rollout On Hold said by bigjimc :The copper phone wires are so antiquated that the POTS service is abysmal. The MA grassroots organizations are attacking Verizon on this very issue. They are hugely vulnerable in that respect. -- The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master.
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  morbo Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22 00000 clubs: | call their bluff Massachusetts: time to call Verizon's bluff. | |
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 |  See 7 replies to this post |
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  Maggs Premium join:2002-11-29 Woodside, NY
·RCN CABLE
| Cut their franchise agreeements All they have to do is table their franchise agreements for failure to pay taxes. If Mass really had some balls, they would have them discontinue service in the state. Imagine 1 million people calling Verizon. Lawmakers need to grow some balls. -- Hello, is anyone out there. | |
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 |  SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| Re: Cut their franchise agreeements said by Maggs :All they have to do is table their franchise agreements for failure to pay taxes. If Mass really had some balls, they would have them discontinue service in the state. Imagine 1 million people calling Verizon. Lawmakers need to grow some balls. That's a beautiful theory but whores politicians don't generally tick off their johns highest paying constituents. | |
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 |  |   Maggs Premium join:2002-11-29 Woodside, NY | Re: Cut their franchise agreeements Some politicians are in fact Johns LOL. -- Hello, is anyone out there. | |
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  DaveNJ No Fear
join:1999-09-01 New Jersey 1 edit | Verizon should sell off Mass Verizon should just sell off assets to another buyer.. by that time, DOCsis 4 , will come out, and Mass will be even further behind. Maybe Embarq can by them. | |
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 |  sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24 Cleveland, OH | Re: Verizon should sell off Mass There is no DOCSIS 4...they're *still* working on DOCSIS 3, which can theoretically go up to 1 gbps. | |
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 |  |   DaveNJ No Fear
join:1999-09-01 New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| Re: Verizon should sell off Mass said by sonicmerlin :There is no DOCSIS 4...they're *still* working on DOCSIS 3, which can theoretically go up to 1 gbps. Duh..... Hence by that time....... | |
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  wdoa
join:2001-10-16 Spencer, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
| Verizon to Central Mass Drop Dead Verizon has already stopped their FIOS rollouts in Massachusetts. They finished up the cherry picked communities they had started a few years ago and now have come to a dead stop. In Central Massachusetts they have no real plans to roll FIOS out beyond a the few towns east of Worcester. I say sure let them have their tax exemption in towns that they provide FIOS service, however in towns that they do not levy the tax and double it every year until they provide service. | |
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 |  See 7 replies to this post |
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  stephenju Premium join:2002-05-17 Bedford, MA
| Socialize it! As the pioneer of so many social issues and model for the whole people's nation, why doesn't MA just arrest those telco heads for anti-progressive capitalism and put them to work on FIOS deployment in reform camps? Or tax the entire company's value to make it state-own? Nothing an all-encompassing big government can not solve!
FREE FIOS TO EVERYONE!
It's an unavoidable historic trend as Chairman Mao once said. 
I am only kidding. Don't send me to the camp! Please! | |
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 |  sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24 Cleveland, OH | Re: Socialize it! You're implicitly trying to equate socialism with communism. Let me remind you the two are completely different and have little to no relation to each other. | |
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 |  |   stephenju Premium join:2002-05-17 Bedford, MA
1 edit | Re: Socialize it! said by sonicmerlin :You're implicitly trying to equate socialism with communism. Let me remind you the two are completely different and have little to no relation to each other. I know they are different. But do the socialists know?  | |
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 |  |  |  sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24 Cleveland, OH | Re: Socialize it! In fact they do, very much so, but their arguments are often muddled and distorted by the organizational zealotry of the right (*cough* Fox News *cough*). | |
|
  Leverett
@umass.edu
| Verizon's lack of maintenance on its copper network etc. If you delve deeply into the rate justification in a telco like Verizon's service you will see that they charge each and every customer for the maintenance and upgrading of their telephone network infrastructure.
In fact every Verizon user already pays every billing cycle for Verizon to maintain and upgrade its network infrastructure. Verizon however does not keep up its end of the bargain and has in Central and Western Massachusetts so neglected the copper infrastructure that it is approaching interoperability (old cables filling with water etc.).
My suggestion is to file a Massachusetts consumer class action law suite for Verizon's malfeasance in its failure to maintain and upgrade its network and properly serve its customers.
If the Massachusetts consumers win, which they may well, and Verizon chooses to sell their Massachusetts network I suggest filing a motion to seize the network for payment of the law suit settlement and operation of the network as a Massachusetts consumer owned non profit cooperative. I bet that would get Verizon's attention.
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  Murdoc
join:2009-02-08 Manitowoc, WI | Make lobbying illegal Maybe lobbyists and lobbying should be illegal, then maybe alot of stupidity would stop running rampant. | |
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 jfpatrick
join:2002-03-15 Leominster, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
| Away with Copper! Verizon wants out of the copper based phone business period, and will try any way they can to get out of it. When copper breaks, techs are told to repair, not replace the bad copper. I was without phone service back in January of this year for over a month due to an ice storm, and Verizon took a long time to repair things.
As I've heard a number of times, Verizon wants to be a "broadband" company and get out of the land-line phone business. | |
|
 tmc8080
join:2004-04-24 Floral Park, NY
| Whiny Verizon? Competition sounds good to me. Open the state to new competitors! Now that DOESN'T necessarily mean a TELCO either, it could just be a cable company other than Time Warner or Comcast... I'd even send form letters out to tier-1 Internet Backbone companies to offer a sweet franchise deal for the state. If done right, it could make hotspots like NYC look like a dialup busy signal.
The number of places VZ can cry wolf now is vastly reduced due to jettisoning piss poor ROI rural and suburb infrastructure within it's old footprint. Don't think the lawyers who put Verizon together from it's former companies weren't thinking about a path to cutting all the "dead wood" out of the company sooner or later, and for the most part, they got/will get their wish.. now hold the company's feet to the fire with the rest! | |
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 jfpatrick
join:2002-03-15 Leominster, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
| Competition The problem with allowing competition in MA, is every time a cable/phone company wants to setup shop in a City or Town, they have to get approval from EACH City and Town for a franchise. In My City, that took over 2 years for FIOS to come in. Some communities have one cable/phone provider and like it that way, no competition.
I understand the State of MA wants to take control of this issue and be the one and only agency to determine what community gets cable/phone, but the Cities and Towns are claiming it will take away their "rights" to choose. | |
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 RJ44
join:2001-10-19 Nashville, TN 1 edit | Never mind On second thought I do now wish to post. | |
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 gt1racer
join:2008-11-19 Fall River, MA | Monopoly as always! Gotta love how Fall River in Bristol County is a Monopoly and Fios will probably never come here because they cherry picked through the whole county and rejected us. | |
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