  mmay149qPremium
join:2009-03-05
Dallas, TX
kudos:48 | So... If you file a class action before agreeing to the ToS does that make it valid? Because I'm pretty sure someone should file a class action to this type of behavior, since they are trying to scare you into giving up your games you PAID for just because you don't accept them......
Matt
--
I am no longer an AT&T Employee. Check out my kudos! »/profile/1626573
Have U-verse questions? Please email uversecare@att.com and they will assist you!!  | |
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 |  ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: So... nope. you never pay for the game, you pay for a license to use it on the steam service.
the new Terms explained: »i.imgur.com/bXcxw.jpg | |
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| | mmay149qPremium
join:2009-03-05
Dallas, TX
kudos:48
1 edit | Re: So... It appears you're correct and the First Sale Doctrine does not cover this :/
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_sale_doctrine
Application to digital copies
Application of first sale doctrine to digital copies of copyrighted works poses difficult policy questions. In today's world, copies of copyrighted works, music, movies, and software, are increasingly bought by downloading through the Internet. For example, can a lawful purchaser of a song in MP3 format from the iTunes store be allowed, consistent with the first sale doctrine, to resell or distribute that copy to others? Digital copies of copyrighted works do not comfortably fit within the constraints of the first sale doctrine. Unlike transactions where a tangible copy changes hands, a digital transfer results in a reproduction of the work through the electronic transmission of a new copy of the work to its recipient. In other words, transferor retains the source copy unless deleted from the hard disk manually or through some special technology. By sending a copy to the transferee, the transferor infringes both the reproduction and distribution rights, but the first sale doctrine provides no defense to the infringement of the reproduction right. For example, this exact issue is playing out in the ongoing litigation against ReDigi, an online marketplace for pre-owned digital music.
The question is whether the first sale doctrine should be retooled to reflect the realities of the digital age. Physical copies degrade over time, whereas digital information does not. Works in digital format can be reproduced without any flaws and can be disseminated worldwide without much difficulty. Thus, applying the first sale doctrine to digital copies affect the market for the original to a greater degree than transfers of physical copies. The Copyright Office took the position that the doctrine should not apply to digital copies by stating that "[t]he tangible nature of a copy is a defining element of the first sale doctrine and critical to its rationale."[1]
However, on July 3, 2012, the European Court of Justice ruled that it is indeed permissible to resell software licenses even if the digital good has been downloaded directly from the Internet, and that the first sale doctrine applied whenever software was originally sold to a customer for an unlimited amount of time, as such sale involves a transfer of ownership, thus prohibiting any software maker from preventing the resale of their software by any of their legitimate owners.[2][3] The court requires that the previous owner must no longer be able to use the licensed software after the resale, but finds that the practical difficulties in enforcing this clause should not be an obstacle to authorizing resale, as they are also present for software which can be installed from physical supports, where the first sale doctrine is in force.[4][5] The ruling applies to the European Union, but could find indirectly its way to North America; moreover the situation could entice publishers to offer platforms for a secondary market.[3]
At least not in the USA, effing corporate capitalism....
However I still think a class action should be brought forth on this issue, because I still think it should be illegal to block access to licensed content even though you're only paying for the use of the license against the software, in which you fully get to use said software. Either way, I will be uninstalling Steam from my computer when I get home, even if I lose the licenses/access to content for all the 30 + games I have I won't care, Steam/Valve has already screwed me over, and I haven't played those games in years now.....
Matt
--
I am no longer an AT&T Employee. Check out my kudos! »/profile/1626573
Have U-verse questions? Please email uversecare@att.com and they will assist you!! | |
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| | TheGhostPremium
join:2003-01-03
Lake Forest, IL | They should force companies to call this out with a big sticker on the front, something along the lines of "You are not actually purchasing this game - you are purchasing the ability to play it until the owner decides otherwise"
A bunch of big orange stickers like this on games will stop parents from buying them down at Target. | |
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| | | ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: So... they do, it's in the license agreement that you agree to before you hit buy. | |
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| | | | mmay149qPremium
join:2009-03-05
Dallas, TX
kudos:48 | Re: So... said by ArrayList:they do, it's in the license agreement that you agree to before you hit buy.
Yeah because hiding things in fine print in a license agreement isn't somewhat misleading at all? I bet the idea of the bright orange stickers would change the software industries idea on how they sell their products...
Matt
--
I am no longer an AT&T Employee. Check out my kudos! »/profile/1626573
Have U-verse questions? Please email uversecare@att.com and they will assist you!! | |
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| | | I guess we have another reason to pirate. | |
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| | mmay149qPremium
join:2009-03-05
Dallas, TX
kudos:48 | Re: So... said by DataRiker:I guess we have another reason to pirate.
Yeeeeeah, looks like that will be how it is for me with Counter Strike Global Offensive :/ Oh well, they usually get a working copy of Counter Strike out there for even VAC secured servers
Matt
--
I am no longer an AT&T Employee. Check out my kudos! »/profile/1626573
Have U-verse questions? Please email uversecare@att.com and they will assist you!! | |
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| | | ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: So... Have fun playing that online. Enjoy the cheaters. Oh wait, that's just a normal part of CS | |
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| | | | said by DataRiker:I guess we have another reason to pirate.
How stupid. | |
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|  bear73Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly SkiesPremium
join:2001-06-09
Grand Forks Afb, ND | just another reason I love and support GOG.com (GoodOldGames) you can find many classic titles and some newer ones now too (like Witcher) with no DRM attached. | |
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| | Is my understanding correct...... You are forced to accept these terms or you forfeit all previous purchases with no compensation at all?
Well.... I hope there are enough of you out there that wont accept these terms and want compensation for your previous purchases that you get a class action going. 
One other thing... though it was AT&T that brought this to the Supreme Court, it was the idiots that sat on the bench and made the decision and the lack of congressional action that should be blamed. | |
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| mmay149qPremium
join:2009-03-05
Dallas, TX
kudos:48 | Re: Is my understanding correct...... said by Skippy25:Well.... I hope there are enough of you out there that wont accept these terms and want compensation for your previous purchases that you get a class action going.
Yeah, that's why I'm thinking about filing a lawsuit, for one someone hacked my Steam account 2 years ago and hacked on Counter-Strike: Source, getting me banned from playing on any "VAC Secured" servers, to which Valve/Steam would never allow me to get this fixed, and their answer was "Buy another copy of the game" which is unacceptable, so if they don't want to fix that problem then since they are blocking access to content you've paid for, then they can pay me back for all 30 games I've purchased...
Matt
--
I am no longer an AT&T Employee. Check out my kudos! »/profile/1626573
Have U-verse questions? Please email uversecare@att.com and they will assist you!! | |
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| | ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: Is my understanding correct...... your account getting hacked is not their problem. | |
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| | |  Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Re: Is my understanding correct...... said by ArrayList:your account getting hacked is not their problem. It is if they're using sh*tty security measures. | |
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| | | | ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: Is my understanding correct...... no, if it says in the terms of service that it isn't their fault, then it isn't their fault. | |
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| | | | |  skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | Re: Is my understanding correct...... They can't "contract away" contributive negligence. Just because they claim it so in a contract doesn't make it so. | |
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| | | | | | ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: Is my understanding correct...... they have no legal obligation to do so. | |
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| | | | | | | skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 Reviews:
 ·Cox HSI
 ·Clear Wireless
1 edit | Re: Is my understanding correct...... They certainly do. Data protection has a standard of care obligation in common law. They have to take reasonable steps to protect all customer data and in California are required to actively report breaches customers since Value holds payment information for customers. What is reasonable is determined be a court or arbitrator depending on the venue. | |
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| | | | | | | | ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: Is my understanding correct...... It is a 2 way street. They can easily say that you failed to protect your own account. I'm not sure if you use Steam or not, but they have plenty of methods in place to protect your account. | |
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| | | | | | | | | skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·Clear Wireless
| Re: Is my understanding correct...... Everyone has strong methods to protect accounts but account data still gets stolen whether it is a bank or the DoD. Valve isn't bulletproof.
The problem with Valve is from accounts I have read they don't work with users like say Microsoft does with Live accounts. This is where they would get burned in small claims.
I do use steam and use a very strong password. I use strong passwords which are individual to every site or account (thanks to 1Password) so if my account is hacked it will absolutely be on Valve. | |
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| | | | | | | | | ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: Is my understanding correct...... Steam works with people when it is their fault, which is very rarely. The times they don't work with you it was your fault. | |
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| | | | | | | | | skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | Re: Is my understanding correct...... And they suck for that and that attitude simply encourages piracy and Valve has no one to blame for it but themselves. | |
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| | | | | | | | | ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Is my understanding correct...... You think Valve should dedicate resource to customers who are too stupid to keep their accounts from being phished/hacked/stolen? I don't think so. If you are too stupid to use Steam Guard and a complex password, you probably shouldn't even have a Steam account. If you have Steam Guard on, your account should be safe anyways as that requires extra authentication when you log in from a new location.
I think you are freaking out over nothing. Steam does a LOT to keep your account secure. The most likely course of action for an account to get compromised is the user. | |
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| | | | | | | | | skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | Re: Is my understanding correct...... Yeah, it's called customer service and smart business.
And "should be" isn't the same as "will be". | |
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| | | | | | | | | ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: Is my understanding correct...... Valve is doing quite well apparently, they must be doing the "good customer service" and "smart business" thing.
Haters gotta hate I suppose. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | said by skeechan:Everyone has strong methods to protect accounts but account data still gets stolen whether it is a bank or the DoD. Too bad you can't shoot on site when someone is knowingly stealing classified data. Lord knows if I caught someone in radio trying to steal our classified data on my ship, they'd eat a 9mm bullet. | |
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| | | | | | | | | CXM_SplicerLooking at the bigger picturePremium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Is my understanding correct...... Actually, that is the next provision that is going to be added to the Steam contract... if you violate the TOS, they can come and execute you. Why not? Your life is just another right like all the others they want you to give up, isn't it?
Despite what some might say, No this would not be legal. You cannot avoid/modify/amend existing law through a contract to allow someone to commit a crime against you. The fact that a company would even try is a testament to the need of MUCH stronger consumer protection.
For some strange reason, the idea to let business do what they want and if they can get customers to agree that it should hold just doesn't cut it in my book. | |
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| | | | | | | | | ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: Is my understanding correct...... You think you have some magical power over another companies product when you never own it? | |
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| | | | | | | | | CXM_SplicerLooking at the bigger picturePremium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Is my understanding correct...... Well, for one, the concept of a company trying to TOS itself out of legal liability has NOTHING to do with ownership vs. licensing of a product or service...
And second, you seem to be forgetting the fact that Steam doesn't even own the product themselves, the games remain the property of the respective game companies. | |
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| | | | | | | | | ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: Is my understanding correct...... you are right, the game is the property of the company that made it, the thing is you never buy the license from that company. you get the license from steam. If you really are that worried about it, don't use Steam. | |
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| | | | | | | Absolutely incorrect. While I'm sure they'd love to absolve themselves of all liability, that's usually not the case. They have a duty to act in good faith when performing the obligations under the agreement; further, they may be liable for harm caused by their negligence for the breach of any duty. This extends to securing sensitive information - including customer information. So they can have it in the contract in bold face in 100 pt. font, but that doesn't mean they're not at fault or liable. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
| | |  banditws6Shrinking Time and DistancePremium
join:2001-08-18
Frisco, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
| Even Microsoft will do an unauthorized access investigation if your Xbox Live account is hacked, which can lead to bans being reversed. I sincerely hope that Valve's official position on such matters is something more constructive than "not our problem" -- particularly if the vulnerability used to perpetrate the hack was due to a failure on their part. (Which wouldn't be unheard of, as Steam itself was hacked in late 2011 and a bunch of customer data was stolen.)
--
"The counsel of fools is all the more dangerous the more of them there are." -Ólafr Höskuldsson | |
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| | | | ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: Is my understanding correct...... usually Valve does this, but if they have reason to believe that it was a legit ban, they will leave it. My spidey sense says that OP cheated and was caught. | |
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| | | | |  CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | Re: Is my understanding correct...... Or...he clicked on a link that someone sent saying "GET FREE GAMES" and they took his account. That's my feeling. | |
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| | | | | | ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: Is my understanding correct...... bingo | |
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| | | mmay149qPremium
join:2009-03-05
Dallas, TX
kudos:48 | said by ArrayList:your account getting hacked is not their problem.
No, but when you look at the fact that I've never had a support ticket in the 10 + years I had a Steam account until that happened, so it's not like it occurs everyday, and then I'm blamed or treated like I cheat on a daily basis, just leaves a bad taste in your mouth, don't want to do business with them anymore...
Matt
--
I am no longer an AT&T Employee. Check out my kudos! »/profile/1626573
Have U-verse questions? Please email uversecare@att.com and they will assist you!! | |
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| | | | ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: Is my understanding correct...... good, I don't like playing with cheaters. | |
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| | | | CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | said by mmay149q:said by ArrayList:your account getting hacked is not their problem.
No, but when you look at the fact that I've never had a support ticket in the 10 + years I had a Steam account until that happened, so it's not like it occurs everyday, and then I'm blamed or treated like I cheat on a daily basis, just leaves a bad taste in your mouth, don't want to do business with them anymore... Matt Not to nitpick, but it hasn't been 10+ years... | |
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| | | | | mmay149qPremium
join:2009-03-05
Dallas, TX
kudos:48 | Re: Is my understanding correct...... To be honest I don't know how my account was hacked, I changed my password and everything though, and you're probably right, it wasn't 10 years, more like 6, I was just exaggerating, my bad.
Matt
--
I am no longer an AT&T Employee. Check out my kudos! »/profile/1626573
Have U-verse questions? Please email uversecare@att.com and they will assist you!! | |
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| | CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | said by mmay149q:said by Skippy25:Well.... I hope there are enough of you out there that wont accept these terms and want compensation for your previous purchases that you get a class action going.
Yeah, that's why I'm thinking about filing a lawsuit, for one someone hacked my Steam account 2 years ago and hacked on Counter-Strike: Source, getting me banned from playing on any "VAC Secured" servers, to which Valve/Steam would never allow me to get this fixed, and their answer was "Buy another copy of the game" which is unacceptable, so if they don't want to fix that problem then since they are blocking access to content you've paid for, then they can pay me back for all 30 games I've purchased... Matt And pray tell how did your account get hacked? I bet you clicked on a link that someone sent saying "FREE GAMES".... Almost guaranteed... | |
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| | | | Same thing happen to me! I found myself unable to play because of a hacked account. Unlike you, I wanted to play bad enough, so I bought another copy. Now, they are imposing this ridiculous contract which has no validity unless all clients accept these terms. Of this I am sure Valves layers are well aware. That makes this contract requirement an act of bullying, of threatening their clients to give up contractual rights previously granted. The tonality of the language in the contract clearly shows the ferocity with which Valve is attacking its members. That's a violation of our rights as consumers. The software was SOLD or Subscription was given in fair trade, to which now we are asked to willingly give up any rights of ownership or use of said software, without fair compensation.
And talk about bundling of "theft of your rights today with the permission to future theft in whatever form they see fit". They are informing us that any information collected about us during game play, for some reason it is public and as such will be available for public use as they or their affiliates see fit. As in section 6 of the contract, "you expressly grant Valve and its affiliates the complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind." What does that mean? And why throw it in there? Is that a double standard? Is that their way of saying that if you come up with a great idea in game play they have a right to steal it from you and sell it without you having any recourse? Hey it's possible. And if it's possible then it is probable.
I am declining the acceptance to this stupidity. And since I am loosing the ability to play on about 20 games per profile for 3 profiles, (that's a lot of money Valve is literally steeling from me) I look forward to the class action suits. My name will go on the list. I look forward to the reactions of the CEO and CFO to their lawyers responses when they lose a few hundred million dollars.
There is clear breach of contract that Valve is doing by imposing such restrictions on clients it has had in good faith for, as in my case, more than a decade. There is malfeasance in the their conduct, their deliberate threatening tone and forceful demeanor by which they bullied they clients into accepting their irresponsible contractual obligations. There is also some possible civil law suits, which I am sure will arise from numerous other possible actions motivated by this contract.
I could go on but I am too devastated. I feel raped by a conglomerate, and dumped out in the street in the rain. I do not know how I will be able to proceed. I hope you get yours VALVE, STEAM whatever you are called this week!!!
Does anybody know of another online gaming company I can use? | |
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| | | mmay149qPremium
join:2009-03-05
Dallas, TX
kudos:48 | Re: Is my understanding correct...... Yeah I'm just going to wait and see what happens, and if I see any Class Actions on it I'll join it as well. I don't know of any other services like Steam, unless On Live counts?
»www.onlive.com/
Oh well, Steam I thought was actually a really good platform, until I got abused and blamed for it.
Matt
--
I am no longer an AT&T Employee. Check out my kudos! »/profile/1626573
Have U-verse questions? Please email uversecare@att.com and they will assist you!! | |
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| | | | ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL
1 edit | Re: Is my understanding correct...... Onlive is just as bad. | |
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| skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | Even with arbitration, you can sue in small claims should it come to that. | |
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| | ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: Is my understanding correct...... yes, you can sue, but the judge will throw it out. | |
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| | | skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·Clear Wireless
| Re: Is my understanding correct...... Not in small claims. The service agreement permits it.
said by Steam :
Notwithstanding this Section, you have the right to litigate any dispute in small claims court, if all the requirements of the small claims court, including any limitations on jurisdiction and the amount at issue in the dispute, are satisfied.
Valve is only going after the bloodsucking lawyers, not users who may have a valid INDIVIDUAL claim. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Is my understanding correct...... Small claims must be filed in the county of the defendant and a 5k cap damages. Second if a verdict is made against them they can file in regular court (perhaps arbitration) and as soon as the file the small claims verdict is replaced by the regular court ruling. If you win there you may be granted your original judgement but you will have spent more than that making you a good example for the company. | |
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| CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | What is every ones steam id? 
Mine is STEAM_0:1:2463 | |
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| | ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: Is my understanding correct...... STEAM_0:1:2360287 | |
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| | | Re: Terms of Service can't re-write the law. You must of missed the part where AT&T appealed this to the Supreme Court and those morons sided with AT&T and said they can restrict your rights as a consumer and make it harder for you to hold companies like them responsible for their lack of care for their consumers. | |
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| |  El QuintronResident Mouth BreatherPremium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:2
 ·TekSavvy DSL
·WIND Mobile
 ·voip.ms
| Re: Terms of Service can't re-write the law. said by Skippy25:You must of missed the part where AT&T appealed this to the Supreme Court and those morons sided with AT&T and said they can restrict your rights as a consumer and make it harder for you to hold companies like them responsible for their lack of care for their consumers.
Maybe they can do this in the states, but not in Canada. The law is pretty clear that it takes precedence over any ToSes, and it's been proven a couple of times.
--
Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have | |
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| | | | | Re: Terms of Service can't re-write the law. For the most part that is true here as well. You will have those morons that come here acting like a TOS or EULA is written in stone with blood and lightning, but there have been many cases that won in court overturning what they say in there.
However, companies will continue to put what they want in them because it does 1 of 2 things: 1.) Scares people as they do think it is written in stone 2.) Make it harder for people to challenge it as a simple request will be referred to the TOS or EULA thus you have to take legal steps to get it changed.
In this case, AT&T lost I believe 3 cases saying the can't remove that right from consumers before it went to the Supreme court and those morons gave it the stamp of approval and or ignorant congress did as well by taking no action to fix it. | |
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|  LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 | said by El Quintron:As far as I know, Steam (and others) can put whatever they want in their ToSes but this doesn't go over existing law. So if the law says you can launch a class action then the ToS is completely irrelevant.
Bell and Rogers have tried including a "no class action/no litigation" clause in their ToSes for some time, and the actions go forward anyway.
Canada doesn't have same Rules as U.S.
--
»www.mittromney.com/s/repeal-and-···bamacare
»www.mittromney.com/issues/health-care | |
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moes
join:2009-11-15
Indianapolis, IN | valve You've never owned the game in the first place, please read the original TOS. it's a subscription/license.
it's always been that way and it's not going to change, it's how the industry has went. blame the lawyers. | |
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| ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: valve people just love to not read the terms. | |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |  Shrug
--
Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge. | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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| |  Valve is awesome and everyone else is doing this.
The amount of class action e-mails I've gotten for the most ridiculous lawsuits against companies like Netflix, Nutella, etc. is obscene.
Where the hell is the class action lawsuit against something that is a LEGITIMATE grievance, like bandwidth caps?! Now that's one I would sign up for. | |
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| | | Re: Valve is awesome and everyone else is doing this. Your perception of what is a LEGITIMATE grievance and what a different person's perception of what a LEGITIMATE grievance is may not be the same. Regardless, it does not make yours any more or less LEGITIMATE than the other. | |
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| | | Bought - hook, line and sinker..... | |
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|  crazediamondMaybe you shouldn't be so proud?Premium
join:2002-01-19
Atlanta, GA | Re: Class action lawyers unemployed good; patent lawyers next Here's my surprised face that you'd be cheering on the raping and pillaging of consumers by business. | |
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| | skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | Re: Class action lawyers unemployed good; patent lawyers next Here is my surprised face that you would exaggerate so.  | |
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| | | | said by crazediamond:Here's my surprised face that you'd be cheering on the raping and pillaging of consumers by business.
Here's my surprised face that you're surprised. | |
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skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | Can't be enforced unless they offer a refund There is no consideration for your agreement. You aren't renting the games, you own them and they would be converting your property with your refusal to agree to their terms. | |
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| ArrayListnetbus developerPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: Can't be enforced unless they offer a refund You don't own anything. read the terms, you buy a license to use the game on Steam. And to use Steam, you have to agree to the Terms of Service. If you don't agree to all of the above, you should walk away. It's the nature of the business. | |
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| | skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
3 edits | Re: Can't be enforced unless they offer a refund When I originally signed up the license was perpetual. But whatever, you can still sue in small claims if you need to and if not satisfied, piracy will fill the void. | |
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 n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY | Class Action BS I have yet to be included in a "class" where I saw any benefit. Many times I have received notices that I am included in a class and that in order to not be included, all the stupid hoops I have to go through to get out. I just ignore them and usually never hear another word about it.
My most memorable one of late was a class action against eBay Motors. I received a check as part of the settlement for a whopping $.01. Yes one friggin' cent. The lawyers did very well for themselves. And the check had an expiration date of about two weeks from the time I received it. I deposited it in the bank just on principal but it proved how obnoxious the system really is. Granted the system is now tilted way out of kilter to businesses but I suppose Congress could remedy that if they so choose (ROTFLMAO).
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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|  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Class Action BS I got a .03 check. Wasn't even worth the time to deposit it. | |
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | I got $3 once from something. that barely buys a bag of chips these days.
I bet the lawyers got enough for new BMWs to go with the new beach home in Malibu though.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | crazediamondMaybe you shouldn't be so proud?Premium
join:2002-01-19
Atlanta, GA | Re: Class Action BS I've received maybe a total of $100-$200 in class action suits over the last few years, plus I suppose some free CDs from the RIAA price fixing suit and maybe discounted MS Office or something.
If I had to take people to small claims court, which is the alternative, I'd have $0, so its a win for me.
edited because I suck at adding | |
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 imtim83I hate those people so muchPremium
join:2001-06-03
Kenner, LA | There a guy suing Valve I remember there was a guy suing Valve but not sure what has come of it yet. Will love to know. It is most likely why Valve did this. | |
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skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | You can still take them to Small Claims Even with the arbitration clause, you can still file a small claims action if you really needed a remedy and Value wasn't forthcoming with it. | |
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·Charter
| Re: You can still take them to Small Claims said by skeechan:Even with the arbitration clause, you can still file a small claims action if you really needed a remedy and Value wasn't forthcoming with it.
More than likely, if you filed a small claims court case for trying to get refunded for all your purchases after you were banned from 1 of them, i would bet you win, because thats just shitty and overbearing. Banned from 1 does not mean you shouldnt be able to play any of your purchases at all, regardless of a ToS.
OH, and edit: I bet you could get Valve to pay all court costs too. | |
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| | skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·Clear Wireless
| Re: You can still take them to Small Claims That is the thing about small claims...it is the whim of whatever janitor the court found to play judge that day. And for $100 or $200 Valve isn't going to bother sending anyone out and by their marketing they create personal jurisdiction in every state, even those they don't have a physical presence in. | |
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grazed
join:2006-10-15
Havertown, PA | sigh I posted about this on another (gaming) forum. I was then berated for being a conspiracy nutjob, clueless to how the game industry works and told that if I just acted normal and didn't get banned I would be fine. | |
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| | | Re: sigh so you lose your games if you don't agree? How can that possibly be legal? | |
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Rekrul
join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| ... So if you don't agree to the new terms of service, you lose all the games you've bought through Steam. Yes, I said "bought". Isn't that what the screen says when you go to pay for a game through Steam? (I've never used it) Or do they make it absolutely clear that you're only buying a license to use the game? I'm not talking about in the fine print of the EULA, but right on the screen where you choose to pay for games. What does it say?
I don't know about other countries, but in the US, the FTC has declared that it's false advertising to mislead a consumer into thinking one thing and then contradict that in the fine print, even if they never actually promised what was implied.
Explain to me again how Steam isn't DRM and how the saints at Valve would never, in a million years, take away all the games you paid for... | |
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| | I used to like Steam I was actually going to repurchase some of the older games that I've been seeing pop up on Steam. It's nice not having to worry about inserting the disc when you want to play, and being able to just install Steam and let it download and install all my games was nice when I was setting up a brand new machine.
But after reading this, I think I'll just stick with discs. I can't do anything about the Half-life games, which are Steam-only, but I won't use Steam anymore if I don't have to. They just lost a bunch of sales right here. | |
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| | possible violation by steam of its own agreement i was reading steam subscriber agreement and was wondering did steam violate its own agreement in the way they went about it and not give people 30 day prior notice before locking them out of their accounts. basically when you run the steam client you are prompted to agree or disagree, if you agree you gain access to your account, if you don't agree your only option is to close your account and lose access. so if you dont agree you lose access to all the games, you don't even have the option to disagree and get a listing of your keys so that you can directly activate them with publishers
quote:
9. AMENDMENTS TO THIS AGREEMENT
Valve may amend this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use) at any time in its sole discretion. If Valve amends the Agreement, such amendment shall be effective thirty (30) days after your receiving notice of the amended Agreement, either via e-mail or as a notification within the Software.
»store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ | |
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Reviews:
·Velcom
| Yikes I'm glad I quit gaming and that I live in a country where judges are much harder to bribe. Even our hard right-wing government swings left of the Democrats so they occasionally act in the interest of consumer. There are depths that they wouldn't sink to even for a cushy "consulting job" after they retire from politics.
No wonder piracy is so rampant these days. You pay good money for a product but your access to it is limited by someone else's whim. Instead of treating law-abiding citizens with kids' gloves, offering incentives to access the content legitimately, they are forcing them to either give up what they already paid for or sign away their consumers' rights. Not that it surprises me, considering how bad your corporate communism got over the decades.
The reason those corporations don't want class actions is because a bunch of consumers can get together and pool their legal resources to the point of matching the hounds that they're keeping in the kennel. They want to keep screwing the consumer without worrying about any legal repercussions. United we stand, divided we fall.
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If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw | |
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| | Renting not buying a game Why do people argue that your just renting games not buying them on steam? I went and bought shogun 2 from a target store, and it has forced on steam, which without its impossible to play, does that mean i renting a game from target? | |
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Class action lawyers unemployed good; patent lawyers next
