Users Need A Decent Alternative To Video PiracyStudios: we're trying, but paperwork makes it impossible... ( old news - 09:03AM Wednesday Apr 22 2009) tags: Video · business · contentThough the film industry has half-heartedly tinkered with broadband delivery systems for years, they traditionally haven't been very good, coming with limited catalogs and a plethora of restrictions. Slate's Farhad Manjoo laments the lack of options, proclaiming he heads to piracy and BitTorrent because he hasn't been given a user-friendly, inexpensive alternative. Studios tell Manjoo they'd love to offer better services, but they're limited by "a byzantine set of contractual relationships between many different kinds of companies studios, distributors, cable channels, telecom companies, and others." Techdirt doesn't buy that.
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ | Netflix has it right Flat rate for streaming movies. I don't even mind if they limit it to say 10 per month or offer different plans.
Offer more content in HD and they have a winner. | |
|  | o2cool8
join:2002-04-19
Miami, FL | Re: Netflix has it right i agree. more netflix instant stream in HD from my xbox(and add ps3 even though i dont own one). Since they do weekly heroes update, I have no need to hit a torrent since for episodes, I just wish they did weekly updates to more shows. | |
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maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Netflix has it right said by jadebangle  :said by o2cool8 :i agree. more netflix instant stream in HD from my xbox(and add ps3 even though i dont own one). Since they do weekly heroes update, I have no need to hit a torrent since for episodes, I just wish they did weekly updates to more shows. I think netflix sucks... I'm not paying a penny for it and I don't think it worth my time or money to watch useless garbage Its an addiction like alcohol Junk in, junk out! Just must also enjoy eating out a lot like mcdonald, wendy, burger king and drink a lot of coke LMAO! But.... are you paying for any kind of television service? (satellite, cable, etc)
One could make the "useless garbage" argument there as well. | |
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
 ·T-Mobile US
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Netflix has it right said by maartena :said by jadebangle :said by o2cool8 :i agree. more netflix instant stream in HD from my xbox(and add ps3 even though i dont own one). Since they do weekly heroes update, I have no need to hit a torrent since for episodes, I just wish they did weekly updates to more shows. I think netflix sucks... I'm not paying a penny for it and I don't think it worth my time or money to watch useless garbage Its an addiction like alcohol Junk in, junk out! Just must also enjoy eating out a lot like mcdonald, wendy, burger king and drink a lot of coke LMAO! But.... are you paying for any kind of television service? (satellite, cable, etc) One could make the "useless garbage" argument there as well. precisely. I am the dude the studios and cable companies fear:
I cut off my satellite TV, and cable internet, went down to cheaper 6mbps DSL, and added a $9/mo netflix subscription so I can get unlimited movies on my 360, and a 1 time fee for PlayOn.
My monthly fee went from ~$120/mo for a ton of channels I never watched, to $50/mo for exactly what I want to watch when I want it.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
 ·PenTeleData
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| said by jadebangle :I think netflix sucks... I'm not paying a penny for it and I don't think it worth my time or money to watch useless garbage Its an addiction like alcohol Junk in, junk out! Just must also enjoy eating out a lot like mcdonald, wendy, burger king and drink a lot of coke LMAO! That's why I said I wished they had more content in HD.
The business model is good. Lack of content is not. | |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by jadebangle :I think netflix sucks... I'm not paying a penny for it and I don't think it worth my time or money to watch useless garbage. Its an addiction like alcohol Junk in, junk out! Just must also enjoy eating out a lot like mcdonald, wendy, burger king and drink a lot of coke LMAO! I'm not clear on what your problem is with Netflix.
You think it's addicting, yet you seem to find no content in it worth watching.
How is someone going to get addicted to something they don't want to watch in the first place?
We pay $8.99/mo for Netflix. By the time we add up our cable, satellite, theater, and Netflix usage; our total Entertainment bill is $8.99/mo.
How much do you pay for entertainment each month?
NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. | |
| | | | 
Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
Premium
join:2003-05-31
·Verizon Online DSL
| quote:
I think netflix sucks... I'm not paying a penny for it and I don't think it worth my time or money to watch useless garbage
I take it you do not watch TV or movies.
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“Don't let people drive you crazy when you know it's in walking distance.” | |
| 
SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
·Comcast
1 edit | I don't pirate movies but... I don't pirate movies but... there are many HBO/Showtime series I'd love to watch, but they won't sell them online unless they are 2 years outdated.
And Comcast won't let me signup for Showtime or HBO without paying $55 for a digital package of junk I don't want.
I'd be happy to pay $2 for an episode of Dexter or $1 for Weeds (only 30 minutes). I'd also be happy to subscribe to those channels for the $15/mo they charge. But Comcast isn't getting a $55 surcharge for that, not from me. | |
| 
PToN
join:2001-10-04
Houston, TX
| ATT U-verse is almost there Well, i've been a Uverse user since the service became available in the houston area and i just bought a VOD the other night, a HD movie and it started to stream in just 5seconds.
I dont mind paying is the service is as good as what i have experienced with U-Verse. They only need to expand their catalog.
With u-verse you can actually pay for individuals shows that you can get from HBO, Showtime, etc without to actually having to have their channels... | |
| 
Sir Meowmix III
| Make it multiplatform. Whatever the solution is, lets hope it's multi-platform. Regardless of your preference for an OS the fact is the demographic isn't purely Windows and inclusion of DRM shouldn't be synonymous with Internet content. There's OS X, Linux/UNIX, Windows users who don't want to be alienated.
I shouldn't have to clobber together a solution in WINE or VMWare nor should OS X users.
Make the solution multi-platform and you expose your demographic to more potential for ad-revenue, the entire point of all TV to begin with. | |
| | 
Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Make it multiplatform. said by Sir Meowmix III :
Whatever the solution is, lets hope it's multi-platform. Regardless of your preference for an OS the fact is the demographic isn't purely Windows and inclusion of DRM shouldn't be synonymous with Internet content. There's OS X, Linux/UNIX, Windows users who don't want to be alienated.
I shouldn't have to clobber together a solution in WINE or VMWare nor should OS X users.
Make the solution multi-platform and you expose your demographic to more potential for ad-revenue, the entire point of all TV to begin with.
Video DRM is about as non-intrusive as it gets, at least on Windows. So I don't care if they want to embed DRM into the media, just make the terms reasonable ala the iTunes old DRM where you could play it on 5 machines tied to your account.
I do think they should go to a non-licensed codec for the video however, but I think we'd be back at square one because then whomever creates the DRM method would have to support multiple platforms. OS X would be easy aside from the "We're Apple We Must Control Everything" mentality, but Linux would be a nightmare. You couldn't provide source-code for it, so you're stuck with binaries and whiny 13-year olds who don't want to run things that "taint" their kernel. | |
| |
prolywindosx009
@ameritech.net
| I doubt they will target Linux/Unix/Solaris, it's just too small a platform base, and there are DRM controls that no FOSS will ever agree to. Linux can't even get multimedia sound right.
besides:
YouDontNeedThatFeature(TM)
»linuxhaters(DOT)blogspot(DOT)com | |
| Tcomp
join:2008-07-29
Greenbelt, MD
| Dose of reality The reality behind this debate boils down to one simple thing - money. Studios make more money with status quo than they do with Internet distribution. Until that changes, they're not going to move. Now we can argue they're being short sighted, which may come back to haunt them later. But these guys are capitalists - they're doing what every capitalist does - maximizing profit. | |
| |
SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
1 edit | Re: Dose of reality I concur. And that is why I'm voting with my dollars. I cancelled my entire cable package a year ago, and I'm finding more productive things to do with my time. | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| well DVD is the most profitable format in the history of the movie industry.
they likely pay 2 cents per blank and then get a huge discount on shipping from UPS. not to mention in the same standard sized shipping box they fit more movies then the VHS era so each box is potentially more profit.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: so the pirate are now abandoning their hobby of piracy??? said by jadebangle :LMAO!!!PIRACY IS LIKE A DISEASE That infect millions a day... IT WILL NEVER DIE UNLESS YOU GOT A CURE CALLED EVERYTHING IS FREE People WANT legal but DON'T DRM, low bitrate crap and other restrictions.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| One of the problems.... is not repeating prime time shows. The only time I ever seem to torrent something, is when our livingroom DVR is recording two things that evening... (OR it is recording one thing, and I want to see the game on another channel) ... and there is something on a third channel I want to see/record.
If they would simply REPEAT the same show in the overnight hours, I would just set my DVR to record that. Right now, if you say.... miss an episode of "Fringe", it does not come back on TV until the series is syndicated to another channel 2 years later, or if you are lucky they run the repeats in the summer break, and it's up to you to find the missing episode.
Now with "Fringe" as the example you can go to Fox on Demand and watch the episode online. But not all TV stations offer this for their shows, and where I can watch the h.264 file from a torrent straight on my 40" HDTV by using my Media Center PC, going to the website, and using their MOVE player is more of a hassle. I can't pause it using my Media Center remote (or rewind), meaning I need to keep a mouse connected to my Media Center PC just to operate the viewer/player.
And as said, many shows are not available online as not all stations provide this service.
A lot of this could be resolved by simply repeating prime time television overnight.... but hey, since that actually costs money, and the amazing-things-for-19.95 overnight infomercials actually bring in money.... it's never going to happen.
Alternatively, (which is hard with satellite, but easy to do with cable, uverse and fios) every prime time show needs to be "on demand" through your cable provider. I love HBO on demand for that very reason in case I miss Big Love.
Movies I don't download, or hardly at all. I'll just wait till it shows up on HBO a year later. 
But TV series? You can't miss ONE or there is a gap and you could miss the story line. So sometimes there is no alternative but to download it, as the TV stations simply won't put on a second showing (although HBO and SciFi for starters DO) on their schedule.
They should just offer it online, with commercials cut in for all I care, as a h.264 or divx file two days after it aired, for those who missed it and want to see it again. It would be the same as Tivo-ing it the first time around.
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"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" | |
| |
Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ | Re: One of the problems.... is not repeating prime time shows. Two DVRs with MRV would solve that problem. | |
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maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | Re: One of the problems.... is not repeating prime time shows. said by Eat Me :Two DVRs with MRV would solve that problem. At a cost of $10 extra per month. Sure, if you throw enough money at it, there is a solution for everything.
And even then it is possible to miss a show, a malfunctioning DVR, a power outage, you forgetting to record the season pilot of a new series, etc, you name it.
Bottom line is that once a TV show has been aired, and you miss it for whatever reason, you can't get it back if there is no online service to stream it..... meaning you would have to wait for the DVD, a possible repeat on TV....
....or you go to your favorite torrent site, grab it in 30 minutes time or less, and watch it on your favorite monitor.
All I am saying that if the industry wants to make some changes, looking at how many times they broadcast a show may be a good place to start.
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| | | |
Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| Re: One of the problems.... is not repeating prime time shows. said by maartena :said by Eat Me :Two DVRs with MRV would solve that problem. At a cost of $10 extra per month. Sure, if you throw enough money at it, there is a solution for everything. And even then it is possible to miss a show, a malfunctioning DVR, a power outage, you forgetting to record the season pilot of a new series, etc, you name it. Bottom line is that once a TV show has been aired, and you miss it for whatever reason, you can't get it back if there is no online service to stream it..... meaning you would have to wait for the DVD, a possible repeat on TV.... ....or you go to your favorite torrent site, grab it in 30 minutes time or less, and watch it on your favorite monitor. All I am saying that if the industry wants to make some changes, looking at how many times they broadcast a show may be a good place to start. $10/month is a small price to pay to ensure that all your shows are recorded. Alternatively you can do like me and get a TV tuner card and record them on your PC. No monthly cost involved. From my PC I can transfer them to my TiVo for living room viewing on the big screen.
TV stations aren't going to air repeats overnight that probably won't generate any additional ad revenue. | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| major shows are on the VOD of most cable providers. however NBC is stupid and greedy and charges for their VOD content. ABC, CBS and Fox do not. and yet NBC whines and cries about their shows being torrented.....
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| 
Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| Byzantine is right You look at the layered contractual system that has built up since the demise of the Studio System. The Movie rights holders, The writers, The production companies, the actors, the makeup artists, the editors, the Cameramen, etc, etc, etc, etc.................etc. Just watch the credits at the new Star Trek Movie, everyone of those names works for a company with a piece of the action. And then there are the constant back stabbing, complaints, lawsuits for perceived cheating, and non-payment. Look at the First Heavy Metal Anima movie, it took years for all of the parties to agree to terms so a DVD could be released. What is interesting despite all of the money that is being argued over not one Hollywood movie has ever made a profit.
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I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption | |
| | | | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| each of the LOTR movies raked in close to 1billion and that was before DVD.
DVD after theater is Hugely profitable, minimal production cost(media costs pennies and im sure they have 1U rack burners that just use robotics to change the discs)
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| they should just simply do it and worry about the legal and contract bullshit later. the legal world moves way too slow for the digital world and sometimes it will just have to be pushed aside.
basicly they have the resources now to sell digital copies of movies and TV shows, DRM free off their own websites. come up with a percentage to pay the royalties to the right parties and get going. then work out the legal details later, because piracy isnt slowing and wont slow.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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digitalfreak
join:2005-12-09
49533 | Re: they should just simply do it Hmm... How would you know how much effort is involved? Are you a lawyer now too? | |
| | vag16v
join:2001-07-27
hereandthere | They should deliver the content... The onus should 100% be on the film industry to provide us with a suitable alternative to piracy, and make sure it works.
If they don't want us all to partake in piracy, then they need to be the ones to do something about it. | |
| axiomatic
join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX
| adapt or fail "but they're limited by "a byzantine set of contractual relationships between many different kinds of companies studios, distributors, cable channels, telecom companies, and others.""
Sounds like whining to me. You business model is ancient film industry. Adapt or fail. Sounds like they need to join the millennium. | |
| | 
Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: adapt or fail They're largely doing the latter. Although it may seem like the Pirate Bay verdict is a win for them, it is only a short term one. In the long run, it will become as huge of a failure as Napster was for the music industry.
Nothing they've done to date has done a thing to stop piracy; if they had adapted early on, they could have profited from it instead of spending millions in a futile effort to stop it.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
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Pingmeister
| said by axiomatic :"but they're limited by "a byzantine set of contractual relationships between many different kinds of companies studios, distributors, cable channels, telecom companies, and others."" Sounds like whining to me. You business model is ancient film industry. Adapt or fail. Sounds like they need to join the millennium. Maybe this failing business model is one instance where offshoring could work. | |
| amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| so close yet so blind and far away...
Netflix is neat, sure, but the biggest problems are far too obvious...
-selection
-method of delivery
I've heard nothing but horrible things about Netflix's new player (Silverlight based), which, although cross-platform capable, is still a bad idea.
If a service like Netflix could offer a full selection, on an OPEN format, like regular Divx (even if it had to be encrypted...), it would probably be phenomenally popular.
Even though I'm also a fan of Rhapsody, they also face a similar challenge - the music industry's convoluted bullshit that constantly REMOVES artists/albums/etc. from the catalog.
Everything should be streamable and downloadable - movies, and music. It would be at this point that "piracy" likely falls back into relative obscurity.
The biggest problem with that now is that it's getting (and already is) too late every single day that real, worthwhile legal alternatives are delayed or shot down, or have excuses like this come up...
Even music, which has had literally a DECADE to catch up to what Napster was, is nowhere close.
iTunes, Rhapsody, even the new Napster, can all claim to have catalogs of millions of songs, but they still lack some essentials, and their rarities/b-sides are spotty too.
Having a million indie bands selling their tunes is great, but the catalogs need to include everything else too. Why a "major" artist would NOT want their music streamed is beyond me. They're obviously already somewhat well off, how could it possibly hurt to have millions of people stream it and then possibly buy it?
If it's still this hard for music to be legally online, I have little hope that movies online will be any different.
Will still support good legal means to get media (Netflix and Rhapsody), but they really need to start stepping up. Too many people just don't care anymore if they aren't going to offer some very compelling reasons for people to sign up, they'll still be losing out every single day.
They need to realize a couple of things if they truly wish to do something useful about the situation:
1) It's already too late
2) Everything is already out there - it's too late
3) Might as well put everything out there because, you guessed it, IT'S TOO LATE
4) If it isn't a fair deal, people won't go for it because of 1-3 | |
| |
Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
Premium
join:2003-05-31
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: so close quote:
I've heard nothing but horrible things about Netflix's new player (Silverlight based), which, although cross-platform capable, is still a bad idea.
I have nothing but praise for Silverlight deliver movies from Netflix. The stream is crisp and quick, image and sound are fine. Like any computer related issues it could simply be the computer components and who is using the computer and how it is set up.
quote:
If a service like Netflix could offer a full selection, on an OPEN format, like regular Divx (even if it had to be encrypted...), it would probably be phenomenally popular.
With the economy in the tank so to speak it must be tough call for companies to want to get their catalogs online rolling the dice if there are enough people around that can afford and want the service and justify the expense. Just my opinion.
--
“Don't let people drive you crazy when you know it's in walking distance.” | |
| kd6cae
P2p Shouldn't Be A Crime
join:2001-08-27
Lancaster, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| Offer shows as soon as they've initially aired I agree with the article 100%. Studios should offer shows and movies online as soon as they've been released. I particularly think TV shows from every network should be made available. A perfect example that happened to me just a few days ago. I was browsing through the TV and found a show on the Travel Channel called Extreme Pig outs, which I watched, and very much enjoyed. The problem is that I didn't catch the beginning of the show, and even if I had, I liked the show enough that I wanted to watch it again.
I don't have a DVR, so can't record it. So I thought I could go to the travel channel's web site, and watch it there. No such luck however. All I could find was the article about the show that just aired. I even tried looking on usenet and bit torrent for the show, and couldn't find it!
So it seems if you want to watch a major network show, you'll find it one way or another, but specialty networks and/or shows you won't even find in the piracy realm?
I hope somehow I can watch that show again though, as it was quite a neat show. | |
| alchav
join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
|  The Movie Industry is the biggest problem!
| |
| | chronoss2009
join:2008-09-23 | ya i need a good alternative to BELL canada and rogers and.. Speaking of piracy, ya i need a good alternative to BELL Canada and rogers and cogeco....
With rates like those it feels like were being stolen from. | |
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Re: they should just simply do it
Have your entertainment your way, Ointment or Suppository. Remember the Cable / Satellite entertainment industry is not Burger King and since there is no competition you cannot have it your way, you have to take it their way. If you complain they tell you to go somewhere else for your entertainment or F#*K off.