 
Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | Really..... Who's shocked by this? | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| Re: Really..... said by Jodokast96  :Who's shocked by this? Was PUN intentional? | |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
edit:
October 15th, @08:57AM
| Re: Really..... Uh, yeah, sure. Absolutely!
Not a chance this soon after waking up. | |
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dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI | LOL, yea it took me a few reads to get it. He's right, maybe TK is an early riser  | |
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weaseled386
join:2008-04-13
Port Orange, FL | Good for Vz Good for Verizon. Should they have been grounding things properly from the start? Certainly. However, NY opened the can of worms... now, especially given the proof, they should be responsible for checking ALL installations. | |
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koma3504
Advocate
Premium
join:2004-06-22
North Richland Hills, TX
| Re: Good for Vz This is not just A verizon issue. I have this issue with Att also. And just Yesterday Another one of my Electrition friends droped by and was looking at the way Att Hooked it up and said It was not Code and for the likes of him cannot see why they hooked it up that way. | |
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dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
| Not surprised And I bet they are busy trying to get cheaper labor.
And how about the general ugliness of cable installs!? I never let those asshats touch my house unless I am there watching. Their idea of a cable install is to drill a hole in your wall no matter what the room, and run a big ass ugly wire up the side of your house! Amazing...
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dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16
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Telcoguru
Premium
join:2005-08-22
Fresh Meadows, NY | Re: What's good for the goose... Makes you wonder why only Verizon is being looked at when you see work like this from the cable company. | |
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jplove71
IBEW 113
Premium
join:2001-03-16
Colorado Springs, CO
| said by PoloDude :FiOS is a sub 50v use. Doesn't matter. Any electrical installation coming in from outside needs to be properly grounded/bonded regardless of the voltage rating.
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Rakkasan! | |
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sedorox
join:2006-06-23
Williamsport, PA
clubs:
| Proper Grounding? So with all this talk about improper grounding, what is proper grounding for cable and telephone? I've seen a ton of pictures of bad, but never any good. Makes me wonder if I've done my setups wrong, or how I can at least improve them.
P.S. I don't know if this is better asked attached to this news piece, or in another forum, like Home Repair & Improvement. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Proper Grounding? The proper way is designed grounding point on ONT to approved grounding point in house electrical system. This could be a ground terminal the the breaker box, attaching it to the grounding rod with approved fastener, etc. The NEC is fairly clear on what's approved and what's not. | |
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sedorox
join:2006-06-23
Williamsport, PA
clubs:
| Re: Proper Grounding? So I guess it follows NEC Code? I should probably read up. Right now the cable at my parents house it grounded to the cold water pipe, which is about 20ft from entrance, where the electrical system is grounded to. When I redid our cable in the house (went from all sorts of mis-matched cables to RG6-Quad shield), I just kept it grounded to the same location that Comcast originally had it, except I sanded the pipe a bit more to get a better contact.
Also, if you have multiple splitters (like in the last picture in the article), each of them needs their own, separate, bond? | |
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Bobcat
1.20.09 - The End of an Error
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ | My cable is grounded to a water faucet. That's not allowed? | |
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SteveCon
IBEW 2222 Boston, MA
Premium
join:2004-09-02
Burlington, MA
·Verizon FIOS
edit:
October 15th, @12:03PM
| Re: Proper Grounding? Actually, *all* grounds *must* be bonded together. Further, the neutral (a.k.a. grounded) conductor of the electrical service must be connected to the grounding electrode(s) or rod(s) to become part of the ground system. Under most circumstances, multiple ground systems are not permitted. Any rooftop antenna, satellite dish, CATV, TelCo and Electric Company grounds must *all* be bonded together.
This means multiple ground rods (where employed) must be bonded together. If a cold water pipe or gas pipe (where permitted) is to be used as a ground or grounding electrode, those pipes too, must be bonded (if not already - with approved clamps designed for the use) to the ground system.
As mentioned earlier, the pipes must not be made of PVC, or other non-conductive materials if used for ground. | |
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| | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Pittsburgh, PA
| said by Bobcat :My cable is grounded to a water faucet. That's not allowed? Probably not, it has be very close to where a metal water pipe exits the house underground and travels at least ten feet underground. To use other metal plumbing locations they have be bonded (with the appropriate wire) to such a location. | |
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Telcoguru
Premium
join:2005-08-22
Fresh Meadows, NY | It needs to be grounded within 5ft of where the water main enters the building with 10 gauge wire. Assuming the water main is a copper pipe of course. | |
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Bobcat
1.20.09 - The End of an Error
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ
 ·Verizon Online DSL
edit:
October 15th, @12:29PM
| Re: Proper Grounding? All my water pipes are copper. They're bonded to the electrical ground (which has a ground rod) and there's a jumper across the water meter. But the cable is grounded to an outside faucet quite a distance from where the water line enters the house. | |
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jplove71
IBEW 113
Premium
join:2001-03-16
Colorado Springs, CO
| said by Telcoguru :It needs to be grounded within 5ft of where the water main enters the building with 10 6 AWG copper. Corrected.
NFPA 70: NEC
Section 250.66(A)
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Rakkasan! | |
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Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY
edit:
October 15th, @03:51PM
| Re: Proper Grounding? I'd like to see that section. AFAIK the ONT is to be grounded with 10AWG but the water main has to be 6AWG to the electrical ground.
EDIT: Spelling | |
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Telcoguru
Premium
join:2005-08-22
Fresh Meadows, NY | I was told you only have to use 6 gauge wire to bond grounding rods together not when grounding to the water main. | |
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| brainlessdog
join:2005-11-30
Portsmouth, NH
| Re: Unions It might be about money, maybe also to protect the members. The cable installers are usually contractors getting paid per job. One would expect shoddy work from those hacks.
A Verizon installer is union and getting paid 30+ bucks an hour. There should be no excuse for no grounds. That is pure lazy installers.
The union will use this to get management to back off production numbers. I can see it now. The union will tell management that the workers need more time to do the installs safely. I am sure the managers are pissed that a 30 dollar an hour installer can't even put a ground in. | |
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Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH | Re: Unions this should have come out from the PSC before the VZ contract was signed.
This would have been great for the VZ payroll check book when it came to decide pay raises. | |
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join:2003-08-16
Stratford, CT | Re: Unions How many burgers have you flipped today boy? | |
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Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH | Re: Unions sorry i don't work for a burger joint. I work for The Fresh Market and before that Lowe's Companies, Inc and HOMER TLC,Inc (The Home Depot). And yes all three companies are non-union and i REFUSE TO SHOP at union companies. | |
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Telcoguru
Premium
join:2005-08-22
Fresh Meadows, NY | How would the Unions gain financially from this? | |
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| | thevorpal
join:2007-11-16
Endicott, NY
| Re: Unions said by Telcoguru :How would the Unions gain financially from this? Union members would be doing a good amount of the inspections, and if necessary reinstallations.
I'm not against the idea, but it is not unfair to say that the unions would benefit from this. | |
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Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Unions said by thevorpal :said by Telcoguru :How would the Unions gain financially from this? Union members would be doing a good amount of the inspections, and if necessary reinstallations. I'm not against the idea, but it is not unfair to say that the unions would benefit from this. Contractors are doing the inspections and the union is doing the reinstalls. | |
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WhyADuck
Premium
join:2003-03-05
| Yeah, and another thing is that in some cases they are being REALLY picky. For example, two ground wires under one screw - SO WHAT, as long as both wires are secured under the screw. In another case they griped because the ground wire was under a screw on the electric meter box. Now let's think about this - the National Electric Code REQUIRES the meter box to be grounded, and you'd have to go out of your way to break the ground to hook up a meter box without grounding it. So, if there is a screw going into the meter box, that screw IS grounded. I'm not saying these aren't technical code violations, but if you have any licensed electricians in your family ask them if they've ever come across technical code violations that work perfectly well for their intended purpose, and perhaps have even been passed by an electrical inspector, but that are still a technical code violation.
50 years ago, the National Electrical Code mostly made sense. Today, it seems like the special interests have gotten hold of it and have added all sorts of amendments, some of which really do nothing to improve safety, but that do add cost and complexity to an installation. I'm not saying all the changes were bad, but some were just ridiculous.
When you want to ground something the basic idea is to have a good connection to a good ground that is also connected to the home's grounding system. You want to complain about no connect at all, or a connection to a water pipe (that may or may not actually be grounded) I'm right there with you. You're going to complain because they used a screw on the electric meter box, I say you're being ridiculous and a donkey's behind - whatever the almighty code may or may not say, it's still a good ground, and at least it's better than nothing. Which, by the way, is what a lot of cable customers out in the boondocks get... nothing. You'd be amazed at how many grounding blocks have no ground connection whatsoever.
One other thing I will mention: Nowadays many electrical inspectors are requiring that the ground wire from the home's electrical service be placed inside plastic conduit from entrance box to ground (this seems to be an inspector preference thing). While this admittedly protects the ground wire from damage from lawnmowers and weed whackers, it also means that there's no place to hook a cable or phone ground in the traditional manner (clamp to the ground wire). If the idiots that wrote the code had a lick of common sense, they'd demand that new electric meter boxes have an accessible ground bus on the bottom of the box specifically for the connection of ground wires by communications services. It would add maybe a quarter or so to the cost of the meter box, but would provide an "approved" place to connect the grounds on every new home from services such as phone, cable, FiOS, satellite TV dishes, external TV antennas, etc. No scratching your head looking for a good ground because, at least on new homes, it would always be available right on the underside of the electric meter box. But something like that would make too much sense for the code writers; they'd rather keep making conflicting rules and regulations that confuse everybody.
By the way, I don't work for any phone or cable company (or any similar type of company), and I don't have any personal axe to grind here - I just think that if the union wants to complain about safety violations, it makes them look really petty to complain about things that actually are grounded, and probably grounded well enough for anyone other than the most anal-retentive inspector (of which, I'm sure, New York has more than their fair share). Out here in the boonies we'd be happy if the doggone cable companies would make an effort to ground their connections at all! | |
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Capt_video
join:2001-12-28
Grapevine, TX
·Verizon FIOS
| Don't forget satellite services My daughter just moved into a new house in the country and had Satellite TV installed. The antenna was not grounded and neither was the ground block. He had to put the antenna on one corner of the house for satellite visibility and just ran four RG-6 over 65 feet laying on the roof. They went down to an ungrounded ground block and then into the house. I looked over the neighbors install and one in five that I checked was grounded in any manner. This was a combination of DirecTV and Dish Network. Probably the same installer for both. My in-laws satellite antenna was grounded only at the ground block and it was an 18 gauge wire screwed to the side of the meter panel. Needless to say, I have fixed my daughters and my in-laws. | |
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Tigerpaw509
Premium
join:2006-07-15
Huntley, IL | Catv comcast has the worst plant out there,just walk out to your meter box and I bet 99 outta 100 of you will find the ground ripped off from whatever they used for ground | |
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Friz
@comcast.net
| Re: Catv Depends where you live. We have been strongly enforcing bonding practices in my area for about 4 years now and it is going well. We expect and demand that 100% of our installs and trouble calls to be bonded properly. On installs, if a proper bond is not available or attainable the customer does not get service. We however do not get to q.c. some of our contractor work, so I'm sure there are a few that slip through the cracks. | |
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mixmasta
join:2002-03-19
Ann Arbor, MI | Ground Hacking I think many of these ground hacks actually work just fine... sorry they are not to code Union Workers Looking for More Work in America. | |
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Unions Want Improper Cable Grounding Inspected, Too
Re: Proper Grounding?
It is important to remember that if the ground block is connected to a cold water faucet, your plumbing must be a conductor (Copper). Plastic pipe (PVC or CPVC) just won't do. If you have plastic plumbing, run a Ten gauge stranded wire, insulated wire is OK, from the grounding block where your cable drop terminates to the ground rod where the electrical service entrance is grounded.
Unions
