 
herdfan
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Hurricane, WV | What do you expect from McPaper? | |
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sycocowz
join:2002-06-13
Ottsville, PA | Re: What do you expect from ha yeah, they have USA today at my local McD | |
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bpx
join:2003-01-25
Saint Augustine, FL
| yeah, i never read that paper anyways, its all old news when it comes out, just like this article. regular readers of this website already knew that we are not on top of the broadband users list. who the heck cares anyways??!! pretty sad they didnt have any other news than that!!
USA TODAY = crap DSL REPORTS = DA SHIZNIT
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Nice guys finish last. | |
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aj0439
join:2003-12-09
Arcadia, CA | they have 45DL for Japan now!! | |
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GNXPower
Got Boost?
Premium
join:2003-12-18
Huntington Beach, CA
2 edits | Celebrate the freedom of choice If people en mass demanded it, companies would deploy it. But unlike some countries, people here have alternate ways of communicating cheaply and obtaining news and in a lot of countries the government aids in deployment rather than being an over-regulating, over-taxing burden on business.
Sure there are some isolated areas here that don't have broadband but the same could be said for any nation with large rural populations, but that is a small cry from the minority of have it available but don't get it 'cause they don't want it. Squeeze us all into major cities, get the gov't off the backs of business and we would have 100% deployment too.
But as I see it, for the most part those who want it can get it should they choose to. They just ain't choosing to. | |
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2kmaro
Think
Premium,ExMod 1 BC
join:2000-07-11
ColossalCave
clubs:  
| said by GNXPower  :
If people en mass demanded it, companies would deploy it.
And that is part of the "capitalism" equation - of course, industry has been known to hype a product to increase demand.
Look at the countries that are ahead of the U.S. - each one has had huge support from the government, overcoming hurdles such as funding, regulation and compatibility of equipment. Most have built on existing technology (DSL, Cable) that was pretty much pounded out and proven here in the U.S.
I offer that up as "reasons" for our 11th place, as opposed to being an excuse for it. But there is little doubt in my mind that the combination here in the U.S. of regulations, private ownership and funding, and continued R&D into alternative broadband delivery technologies has all combined to slow the spread of available technology.
We need to also keep in mind where the focus of the news article was at: "broadband in relation to business". It was speaking of broadband as a necessary tool for business growth, not pointed at the individual residential accounts at all as a "necessary utility". Looked at from that viewpoint I definitely agree it is a "utility". I look at prospective government contract work on a daily basis and I do it on broadband. I can review potential work offerings about as fast as I can read (at a pretty good clip) - goodness only knows how long it would take me each day to go through those things on dial-up! I'm talking taking a look at 100+ page Word files, not some quick blurb sent to me via email, although it is a broadband delivered email that alerts me to new offerings. In this arena, my competitor on dial-up is definitely on crutches in the race for finding new business.
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Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment. Barry LePatner | |
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GNXPower
Got Boost?
Premium
join:2003-12-18
Huntington Beach, CA
2 edits | Re: Celebrate the freedom of choice A company's decision to remain on dial up is more often than not a "choice" as a source of broadband is present in the vast majority of markets.
Even fractional T-1 isn't cost prohibitive to business, even small business who have such a need for a quicker connection. Especially in SoCal...as far as COB go, broadband, even fractional T-1 priced broadband is near the bottom of the list.
It's consumer (residential and business) choice that has us 11th. It seems to me Americans simply don't have the need for speed. For communictations and entertainment, we (both residential and business) have so many choices that HSI loses priority, even at $26.95 price points.
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Mac Truth »members.cox.net/clyqz/macs.html | |
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ya
@adelphia.net
 from:
dadkins
PliotronX
| Re: Celebrate the freedom of choice It's consumer (residential and business) choice that has us 11th. It seems to me Americans simply don't have the need for speed.
Oh, we have the need for speed. But when some actually use it, they get hit with invisible caps. | |
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GNXPower
Got Boost?
Premium
join:2003-12-18
Huntington Beach, CA
| Re: Celebrate the freedom of choice With who Comcast...Cox...who else. Not SBC, not Verizon, not a vast majority of providers. Sure, while their TOS may leave the door open, few providers are actually enforcing download limits.
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Mac Truth »members.cox.net/clyqz/macs.html | |
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| | | | lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL | Eleven reasons for eleventh place.
1 FCC
2 Verizon
3 SBC
4 Bell South
5 Qwest
6 Time Warner
7 Cox
8 Charter
9 Comcast
10 Cablevision
11 Adelphia | |
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GNXPower
Got Boost?
Premium
join:2003-12-18
Huntington Beach, CA
1 edit | Re: Celebrate the freedom of choice nm | |
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rog
Premium
join:2002-07-03
BC | Can be all summed up in one word...greed. | |
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| | | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA
| Re: Celebrate the freedom of choice Almost all humans (and all animals) are greedy, it's not a bad thing. Greed is what got us out of caves and into homes. Greed is what helps you and I have some of the highest standards of living in the world. Greed is why our ancestors are here in North America. Greed is deeply rooted in the creation of the Internet. Did you think it was designed and built out of altruism?
Which one of us does not want more than we have? If you were making $75,000.00 a year and the boss offered you a $25,000.00 raise would you say, "No thanks, $75,000.00 a year is plenty, I'll pass". | |
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GNXPower
Got Boost?
Premium
join:2003-12-18
Huntington Beach, CA
| Since when is wanting to be successful or better themselves greedy? I guess we'll call you greedy the next time you ask your boss for a raise. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head forcing them to buy broadband.
Who is to say that those who want more speed for the same or less money aren't greedy.
So-called greed goes both ways then.
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Mac Truth »members.cox.net/clyqz/macs.html | |
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rog
Premium
join:2002-07-03
BC
 ·Shaw
| Re: Celebrate the freedom of choice said by GNXPower :
Since when is wanting to be successful or better themselves greedy? I guess we'll call you greedy the next time you ask your boss for a raise. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head forcing them to buy broadband.
Normal needs and wants only become greed when they reach the magnitde where they start getting in the way of (in this case) progress. | |
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| | | | | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA
| Re: Celebrate the freedom of choice Greed? Like when consumers demand Unlimited 3MB over fiber to their home but only want to pay $25.00 a month for it.
Most BB users would be just fine with 384kbps (over Cable or DSL), but they always say they are getting ripped off if they have to pay $60.00.
I've never understood why people think that $15.00 to $20.00 for dial up service is ok, but 10 faster for digital service for only 3 times the price is a rip off. | |
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GNXPower
Got Boost?
Premium
join:2003-12-18
Huntington Beach, CA
| Re: Celebrate the freedom of choice said by sherpaboy :
I've never understood why people think that $15.00 to $20.00 for dial up service is ok, but 10 faster for digital service for only 3 times the price is a rip off.
The answer to that is simple...consumers are GREEDY!
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Mac Truth »members.cox.net/clyqz/macs.html | |
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| sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA
| Wow! I really expected to hear the typical "We Suck" or "We need more Government intervention to fix the problem", or "Kill the telcos".
Thanks for posting a rational comment.
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| Koto6
join:2001-06-03
Chico, CA
| Chico, CA. We must be behind the others. I have a few clients that would love to have BroadBand. SBC has yet to respond to their plea otherwise than "call us back in a couple of months". A "couple of months" started about a year ago. Not everyone that wants it gets it. However, we are just a population of 100,000 in the greater area. | |
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GNXPower
Got Boost?
Premium
join:2003-12-18
Huntington Beach, CA
| Re: Celebrate the freedom of choice said by Koto6 :
Chico, CA. We must be behind the others. I have a few clients that would love to have BroadBand. SBC has yet to respond to their plea otherwise than "call us back in a couple of months". A "couple of months" started about a year ago. Not everyone that wants it gets it. However, we are just a population of 100,000 in the greater area.
They can't get a fractional T-1? Sure it's not $27/mo, but it's still affordable by business standards and has superior reliability and superior availablility for business.
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Mac Truth »members.cox.net/clyqz/macs.html | |
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FLECOM
Bay Networks Freak
Premium
join:2003-03-03
Miami, FL
| Anyone Suprised? quote:
because Industry wants us to be
no! lies! big business is always does what is in the interest of the consumer!!! anyone who sais anything else is telling lies!!!
and in the real world we are all at the mercy of evil companies that feel that 1.5/256 is worth $50 a month...
if it wasnt for other companies deploying DSL the bells would have never done it, i mean why? why would they sell you 1.5mbits of bandwith for $50 a month when they can twist your nipples and make you pay like $600 for a T1? back in the day you didnt have a choice
which is why im not suprised that USAToday has "discovered" that broadband sucks here in the US | |
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GNXPower
Got Boost?
Premium
join:2003-12-18
Huntington Beach, CA
1 edit | Re: Anyone Suprised? said by FLECOM :
and in the real world we are all at the mercy of evil companies that feel that 1.5/256 is worth $50 a month...
$50 a month? Who charges that any more? Not even Comcrap tops $50 a month any more. Look at SBC, $27/mo, Verizon $30-$35...hardly a bad deal and the workings of evil anti-consumer organizations. I wish all ISP's were so evil.
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Mac Truth »members.cox.net/clyqz/macs.html | |
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GNXPower
Got Boost?
Premium
join:2003-12-18
Huntington Beach, CA
| Re: Anyone Suprised? I forgot about that...and it sucks. Wonder where my bundling discount was...I was paying the same $43 before and after the advent of these so called discounts.
Penalties is more like it. Anti-DBS penalties.
Glad I ditchen them for DSL...30% cheaper for similar speed.
But my point was, speeds here are getting faster and prices cheaper. Comcrap was definately a bad example. My bad. It just seems to me that people for the most part can get broadband, they simply don't want it, at any price.
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Mac Truth »members.cox.net/clyqz/macs.html | |
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| | TACSPEED
Premium
join:2001-04-14
Tacoma, WA
·Advanced Stream
| quote:
$50 a month? Who charges that any more
How about Qwest with MSN, $44.95 plus an additional 10 bucks a month for their bloated phone package. Net charge, 10 bucks plus 44.95 for a grand total of 54.95 per month.
This does not include the fact that you have to have Qwest's basic phone service at about 13 bucks a month plus fees and taxes to even get DSL!!!
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Fiber Optics is the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR Fiber Optic Forum. | |
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GNXPower
Got Boost?
Premium
join:2003-12-18
Huntington Beach, CA
1 edit | Re: Anyone Suprised? What else you want to add on there? How about the electric bill. The VAST majority of people already have POTS and as you state, even the bloated Qwest with MSN isn't more than $50.
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Mac Truth »members.cox.net/clyqz/macs.html | |
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| | | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA |
Who put those taxes and fees on the qwest phone bill? | |
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kfkfkf
@cmc.net | $44.95? I'm paying $21.99/month for their Choice DSL package (256Kbps/256Kbps). And no, this isn't an intro/special rate. | |
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| | | | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA
| Re: Anyone Suprised? The $21.95 is actually the DSL only (often referred to as "the loop"), no ISP included. The price for Choice has actually dropped to $15.00, but you still need to get an ISP. The cheapest I have seen here in Seattle is about $18.00, which would bring your total to $33.00. Then there is the modem rental for $3.00 a month which brings you to $36.00.
Cheers.
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| | Saradin
join:2003-05-03
| »www.patmedia.net/patriot/HSD_Packages.html
Well, the service is 1500/512, but still 45$ bundled with cable TV, 55$ without
Course, this is the same company that took over RCN's cable holdings in central Jersey, hiked up price by a few bucks, and lowered upload cap from 800 to 512 (or from 800 to 128 to 512 rather) | |
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| | BunnYwood
Premium
join:2002-06-19
Sioux City, IA
| Try CableOne.net
They don't even offer 1.5 down. DSL just recently became available and I certainly don't consider where I live the sticks. | |
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| | clucas001
join:2003-11-11
Mechanicsville, MD | I can only get cable Internet through GMP. Since I don't have cable TV, 512k/256k cable Internet would cost me $80/month. Under $50 and I'd be hooked! | |
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| | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA
| If you are in Verizon Territory you can't get it for $50.00 unless you use VOL. If you hate VOL, Verizon will charge you $37.50 just for the privilege of connecting to the ISP of your choice. To stay at the $50.00 price point an ISP would have to sell the Internet Service for only $12.50. There are plenty of ISP's selling $55.00 and above service here in Washington due to Verizon's loop charge. They are surviving because they deliver superior customer service compared to VOL.
Next to MSN, VOL is the Worst ISP in Western Washington. They are losing money at their current $40.00 price point, and a vain attempt to drive the independents out of business. When it comes to price be careful what you wish for, there is a downside to cheap.
That being said, they can charge what ever they want. We are under no obligation to buy. | |
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| why would they not stick with $600 for T-1? Simple, lower price=higer demand. Why does Costco do good business? To say that the eeevil company doesn't want to have cheaper goods is just nuts. Market segmentation (which is what different prices are) ensures that the eeevil company can get even more customers.
Go back to the drawing board on your eeevil corporate plot.
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"Lunches don't get free just because you don't see the prices on the menu. And economists don't get popular by reminding people of that." --Thomas Sowell | |
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| moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| said by FLECOM :
quote:
because Industry wants us to be
no! lies! big business is always does what is in the interest of the consumer!!! anyone who sais anything else is telling lies!!!
and in the real world we are all at the mercy of evil companies that feel that 1.5/256 is worth $50 a month...
if it wasnt for other companies deploying DSL the bells would have never done it, i mean why? why would they sell you 1.5mbits of bandwith for $50 a month when they can twist your nipples and make you pay like $600 for a T1? back in the day you didnt have a choice
which is why im not suprised that USAToday has "discovered" that broadband sucks here in the US
How many people here would pay $600/month for a T1? Not many.
How mnay would pay $50/month for broadband? A lot more.
It is all about selling something for the highest amount of profit. In this case, volume over straight profit. Look at no haggle pricing at car dealerships. They make less money per vehicle BUT have more volume. Finding the balance between volume and profit is the tricky part. | |
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| Re: Anyone Suprised? said by moonpuppy :
Finding the balance between volume and profit is the tricky part.
Yeah, that's what they hire me for
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"Lunches don't get free just because you don't see the prices on the menu. And economists don't get popular by reminding people of that." --Thomas Sowell | |
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| sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA | If you could work for $50.00 an hour, why would you work for $10.00?
....just curious. | |
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scr33d
@mindspring.co
from:
PliotronX
| In other news: Sky blue, water wet Sheesh! Tragically all the rungs of that ladder (telecomm, FCC, Congress) are fat and happy with the status quo and the bottom rung (us) has no place voice our... um, displeasure.
And to those that say, "I've got 3Mbps for a good price..." well remember there are other countries getting 15, 40 or 100 Mbps for similar rates.
Scr33d's Quick Capsule review: US Telecomm sucks! | |
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| sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA
| Re: In other news: Sky blue, water wet Yes, the other folks are living in apartments the size of my bathroom, sharing 100MB government funded ethernet with their neighbors. Sorry, I'll take my nice house and garden (that I own) and suffer with 128kbps ISDN.
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LordBritish
join:2003-08-02
Marina Del Rey, CA
1 edit | $50 at lot, how about $90 !! I pay $94/month (including taxes) for 1500/768 ADSL service from Speakeasy.net.
Yep, it is too much even with real static IPs - I do NOT use PPoE at all. | |
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| sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA | Re: $50 at lot, how about $90 !! WOW! Is that unlimited? I wouldn't sell that service for much less then $200.00 month (including the loop charge) here in Seattle. But then again, you are stuck with Speakeasy. That much be why you got the good deal. | |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| Well, I'm waiting... For the folks who'll point out the glaringly obvious...South Korea is smaller, has much more population density, etc.
To which I say-HORSESHIT. So what? We can on about going back to the moon, again, and to Mars...billions of dollars later, and we're in 11th place. So much for being the best at everything.
Only when broadband is considered a utility will we ever get past this nonsensical, last-mile intensive Who-hash.
And before the flaming starts with "it's a luxury!", isn't telephone, electricity, WATER service all luxuries? Go somewhere outside of your cul de sac (like Central America, for instance) and you'll see what I mean. | |
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See 12 replies to this post |
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Spore Cloud
I H8 Computers
join:2001-09-09
Burleson, TX
| AOL to blame? I wonder, if AOL never came into excistance, if there would be more broadband users.. Just think about all the people on AOL for a second, if these people had started with some sort of local dial-up ISP I think they would understand more about what broadband has to offer them instead by being out there on the public internet instead of being spoon fed what AOL shows the average AOL consumer. | |
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| | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA | nct I'm having too much fun now!
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AuroraJock
join:2003-04-02
Chicago, IL
| USA today also reported... that South Korea was costing the US motion picture agency millions per year in lost revenue.
»www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techp···cy_x.htm
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see a correlation between excessive bandwidth at cheap prices and high piracy rates among users. There are 2 sides to every coin - as the internet gets faster, people use it more. Online shopping gets more convenient, and brick and mortar stores suffer.
Every fiber advocates dream seems to be having a 100megabit fiber pipe to the home for $15 so they don't ever have to get out of bed anymore... | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: USA today also reported... said by AuroraJock :
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see a correlation between excessive bandwidth at cheap prices and high piracy rates among users.
Shows you right there that if the *AA's wanted to they could deploy decent services if we had the infrastructure to support it.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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tigers
join:2001-01-14
Irmo, SC | Another of these articles? The sky is falling.
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6 November | |
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jdir
join:2001-05-04
Santa Clara, CA | And I can not get broadband Ugh - too far to get DSL | |
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tidal
Tidal
Premium
join:2001-01-18
Madison, AL | Re: And I can not get broadband i'm not surprised we're behind | |
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| sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA | Yes you can.
You can get Satellite or Frame Relay.
You cannot get Cheap broadband. | |
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bonnyman
join:2003-04-16
Rome, GA | But none of these other countries is building ... ... their own moon base! | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: But none of these other countries is building ... Or almost single-handedly funding, occupying and attempting to re-shape a middle-eastern country I suppose. | |
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| jdir
join:2001-05-04
Santa Clara, CA | We don't have a moon-base yet. Congress still need to vote on it, beside, Pres Bush only giving NASA another $1 billions over 5 years for that project compare that to $100 or so Billions stuck in Iraq | |
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WillHaeck
join:2002-01-20
Monroe, WA
| Profitability As said before, its all about money. If it was profitable for any of the companies to give every person in the country BB it would be done, the fact is its only profitable to put it in the cities and towns, the places with the highest population density. Something like 90% of our people live in like 30% of the land, so everyone in the other 70% of the land get shafted with everything. That's how it was that's how it is that's how it will be. I live 1 mile out of my town and even that's to far for Verizon or Comcast to provide service. | |
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| jdir
join:2001-05-04
Santa Clara, CA | Re: Profitability My area is really dense - it's a big apt complex with over 200 or 300 apartments. So where's my DSL? | |
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Mr Peabody
join:2001-01-05
Ingleside, IL
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| It will not be profitable to the telecoms until the public demand goes up. Everyone here at BBR is more or less a techie, and we all LOVE our broadband, obviously. But the average person I know couldn't give a rat's a*@ about the speed of their connection. I know maybe 35 close friends and family, and every single one of them has a computer that is online. Of those, three have DSL, three want it but can't, and the other 29 are chugging along on dialup, absolutely, positively content with 56k.
I have actually tried to get some of the dialup holdouts onto the SBC/Yahoo DSL that's available around here, but they think it's crazy to pay even $5 more a month for 768k when they're perfectly happy with the internet as they've seen it.
Unfortunately, I find it almost impossible to describe to someone what exactly they're missing on dialup. It's not until they spend a few days at my house on the 1.5/384 that they begin to realize that using dialup is like beating yourself in the head with a hammer because it feels good when you stop. They start to understand that it's not only speed you get, but the sheer convenience of an always-on connection. It's something most people really need to experience to comprehend.
Sadly, many people get all the information they want from the local and national papers, and the 'warm, glowing, warming glow' of the horrible, omnipresent television and its 200+ channels of mind-numbing garbage. They are either too stupid or just don't care about the multitude of alternative information sources available online.
Just my 2 cents.
Todd | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| 2....... Two words.
1- Corporate
2- Greed
add 1+2 and you get the reason why we're(the usa) behind. while others are enjoying 26mbps dsl for equivelent of $30USD or 100mbit fibre for the equivelent of $22USD. We're being told 1.5mbps is enough.
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| sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA | Re: 2....... quote:
You can never be too rich, or to thin or have to much broadband
I guess it's bad for Corporations to be Greedy, but not the individual? | |
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koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
| Unfair comparisons. What I want to know is why broadband addicts continually compare North America (that means the US AND Canada, for those wondering exactly what I'm referring) to South Korea, Japan, New Zealand, and other geographically small regions.
North America (as a region) is *huge*. Our population is outrageous, and our political segregation (plus the ongoing deregulation movement) makes it literally impossible to agree upon anything. Am I the only one who sees this? I hope not. I cannot imagine trying to deploy something nation-wide in this region -- it must be a complete and total nightmare. The amount of red tape must go on for trillions of miles. Broadband over power lines (BPL) is a really good example of how something nation-wide can get hung up and slowed due to even "the smallest" of disagreements (and just for the record, I side with the HAM folks).
There's a lot of posts here about how the core reason our broadband here in the States and Canada is "behind the times" is due to something people now use as a common cliche: CORPORATE GREED. In some respects I'll agree with that, but in most cases I won't. People need to start thinking about what CORPORATE GREED is, and how one can hold an entire company -- corporation or otherwise -- responsible for GREED.
I have a tendency to blame core executive individuals with superfluous addictions (cars, yachts, personal planes, multiple houses, etc.) rather than the company they "represent." I have worked for companies with head honchos like this; us little guys enjoy our jobs and respect the customer, while the big guys go stroke it on the golf course all day (sic); simultaneously, hear customers and end-users online talking about how "[company] is about CORPORATE GREED" and all this crap. It's really hard to hear someone talk badly about the place you work at -- happily -- when really they should just be referring to executives who have problems with managing their money.
Anyways, step back for a moment and think about what the real problems are before tossing out common cliches. Think about just how much social and political bullsh** -- from politicians, lobbyists, corporate owners, venture capitalists, and (most importantly of all!) general citizens of the region -- goes on in general.
Is all of that really necessary to accomplish a goal? Ask South Korea, Japan, and New Zealand sometime.
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Making life hard for others since 1977. | |
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mrherzog
join:2001-05-06
Coquitlam, BC
| Re: Unfair comparisons. Sorry...Canada is 2nd in the world when it comes Broadband connectivity. What was the US?...11th? Canadian Governments are working with ISP's to make sure everybody in the great white north is hooked up. Since Canada supply's 1/3 of the US power grid, maybe we could help you out with a fiberoptics backbone to get you guys wired. | |
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| | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA
| Re: Unfair comparisons. Backbone is not the problem, there is plenty of that. Local loop is the problem.
Thanks for the offer, but I don't want the government anywhere near my ISP. I don't want them to educate my children. I don't want them to tell me that pot is bad, but alcohol is ok. I don't want them to take guns away from my neighbor. I don't want their faulty dietary recommendations. I don't want them to force me to pay into their retirement system. And I don't want them advancing their political agenda on my dime. | |
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mrherzog
join:2001-05-06
Coquitlam, BC
| Re: Unfair comparisons. Not to make this a political forum, and just to add some humour to this... it's our government that is close to legalizing pot, and as for the dime issue....it's closer to 7.73 cents for us...lol. | |
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| | | | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA
| Re: Unfair comparisons. I agree with you, I really shouldn't make it a political form either buy if there is one thing I can't resist it's temptation.
I'm galled that the government is legalizing pot. They should not be governing pot either way. It's not their business. It's too parental. I'm forty and it would be like my Mom telling me not to drink too much beer! | |
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markopoleo
join:2003-04-02
Bonne Terre, MO | Well its getting better, considering the SIZE. I think the US is doing good, considering the size of the US vs SK. I was a bit surprised THREE towns got DSL in the SAME month where I live. Never thought I would see that day | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| So? What is the big deal here - Why is everyone pointing upwards and crying that the sky is falling? The U.S. is behind on a lot of things, not just (shock! gasp!) broadband implementation. Get your priorities straight here people. The U.S. remains the only developed country in the world where healthcare is a privilege and 40 million go uninsured. Everyone else is one healthcare emergency away from bankruptcy. There are more important issues to worry about other than the Koreans taking top honors at broadband deployment.
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MoveOn.org -DigitalConsumer.org - FTCR.org - Privacy.org - Adbusters.org - Eff.com - Democraticmedia.org - HealthPrivacy.org - Hacktivismo.com - ClearChannelSucks.org - Epic.org - ArnoldWatch.org | |
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
2 edits | Re: So? Yeah Turbo, and once you get the government dispensing health care, you will see it go to crap. Even the esteemed poor in our country get life-saving service without having to wait in line. The same can't be said for health care meccas like Canada or the UK. Do your homework and stop thinking that the government can just write a law saying that nothing bad shall happen to anyone. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| Re: So? said by LegoPower77 :
Yeah Turbo, and once you get the government dispensing health care, you will see it go to crap. Even the esteemed poor in our country get life-saving service without having to wait in line. The same can't be said for health care meccas like Canada or the UK. Do your homework and stop thinking that the government can just write a law saying that nothing bad shall happen to anyone.
Excuse me, but where did you read on this thread about anyone advocating healthcare administered by the U.S. government? I suggest that you turn down the volume of Fox news and rush radio. Obviously it's interfering with your ability to comprehend what you're reading.
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MoveOn.org -DigitalConsumer.org - FTCR.org - Privacy.org - Adbusters.org - Eff.com - Democraticmedia.org - HealthPrivacy.org - Hacktivismo.com - ClearChannelSucks.org - Epic.org - ArnoldWatch.org | |
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| Re: So? Sorry, I know you think I'm an idiot (incidentally, the street goes two ways) but I've talked to enough socialists to know where "The U.S. remains the only developed country in the world where health care is a privilege and 40 million go uninsured" leads to.
Oh yeah, but the bastions of free-market advocacy URLs you have as your tag line should have tipped me off that you were different. Please accept my apology.
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"Lunches don't get free just because you don't see the prices on the menu. And economists don't get popular by reminding people of that." --Thomas Sowell | |
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| | | | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA
| Re: So? Just a point of view from a bystander here, but when I first read the lines....
quote:
Get your priorities straight here people. The U.S. remains the only developed country in the world where Health Care is a privilege and 40 million go uninsured. Everyone else is one Health Care emergency away from bankruptcy.
I thought; uh-oh, here we go down the unrealistic utopian Socialist path of free Health Care for everyone!
Then I tried to look at it in a different light. Maybe Major Marko (by the way is Major Marko from Force 10 from Navarone?) was saying if the government would stop taking our money for stupid projects more of us could afford our own Health Care.
But then again, LegoPower might have a valid point.
quote:
MoveOn.org -DigitalConsumer.org - FTCR.org - Privacy.org - Adbusters.org - Eff.com - Democraticmedia.org - HealthPrivacy.org - Hacktivismo.com - ClearChannelSucks.org - Epic.org - ArnoldWatch.org
Would one consider these organizations Libertarian or Left Leaning Authoritarian?
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| sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA |
The United States of America; the only country in the world where the poor are at a greater risk of dying of obesity than malnutrition! | |
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Johnr31
@usfilter.com
| Why do we lag????? Did you stop to think???? One reason to stop and think....Connection to the internet is through a wire. The telephone systems etc... Did you stop to think that some of our telephone systems are the oldest in the world. Well they are....not to mention the rebuild cost of taking out asbestos wire and replacing with the best shielded as other countries are now just joining the band wagon. With the cheaper cost of wire now available, and government funding. Yes the goverment funds computers overseas, so that everyone can have one. Would you buy a government computer if it only cost $5. These are just a few of the reasons why we do lag... Thanks for reading... | |
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| jdir
join:2001-05-04
Santa Clara, CA
| Re: Why do we lag????? Did you stop to think???? Well, one other thing is the baby bell also has to answer to the stock holders - ie did you make any money with all the expansion. The last three years with the recession et all really hurt the investors which in turn hurt the broadband expansion in the US | |
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damox
Premium
join:2002-01-07
Olympia, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| There are several reasons . . . As I keep telling people, it is relatively easy to wire ONE area the size of New York, especially when you have the government helping you, and especially when most of the people are consolidated in apartments in big cities.
I am fairly certain that most farmers in Korea do not have broadband, but they make up such a small percentage of the population, it wouldn't matter. When I was last there (1985), many people in the city, were just moving to inside toilets. Out on the farm they weren't even dreaming of such things yet.
In any case, the US is sprawling. Even within cities and it takes quite a few more miles of cable to wire neighborhoods of similar population size. Further, with the cost of labor so high, it is difficult to replace existing cable and wire the areas where no man has gone before, and still make a profit. By comparison, this type of labor in Korea is relatively cheap.
It may also be true, that many of the broadband carriers, Telcos, and Cable companies are returning relatively little money to new Capitol, and shame on them!
The way I see it, here's how it boils down.
Korean broadband enjoys:
1) Government subsidies
2) Significantly less feet of cable per person
3) Cheaper labor
Well, it's really no wonder that Korea is ahead in broadband.
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| sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA | Re: There are several reasons . . . Where have all you rational people been lately?
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guhuna
R.I.P Mike
Premium
join:2001-03-31
Brentwood, CA |  oh well,
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thongsai
join:2002-07-04
Santa Rosa, CA
| Re: oh well, yes i wish i have a faster connection. I do understand that the government needs to tax us to keep the country running.. Instead of just taxing us, they should invest. I wish they would build fiber everywhere and let any company rent it out.. this way the government would make money on every high speed fiber connection. then they can finally stop writing bad checks. of course piracy would go up, but I also think people would be more educated. internet is the information superhighway.
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»thongsai-roms.shorturl.com/ | |
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DragonFire
join:2000-07-15
Rolla, MO
·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: oh well, Most of these problems are because of the the all mighty gov we have.
We shouldnt be spending billions of our dollars to help some other countries (Iraq) problems. Instead of taking the money from tv ads and paying a basketball player millions, use it for something better like feeding the poor in this country.
For to many years now our gov has spent to much time, effort, and money trying to solve everyone else problems but our own and that habit needs to stop for a few years so we can get our own country in order.
And like someone else said, I think AOL is part of the problem. At the moment on dialup (dsl the 21st) and it takes no time to load AOL 9 and all its stupid crap however I can go to a few websites in Mozilla and have to wait because there is flash or jave apps being load. If AOL users were to go out on to the real internet they would see why they need it. | |
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| | | sherpaboy
join:2001-07-06
Seattle, WA
| Re: oh well, While I can agree with you, that the Government is far too invasive and causes problems it many areas that it should not be involved (Social Security, Education, Drug War, and of course nation bombing and then nation building, just to name a few), the basketball argument doesn't quite work for me.
While I think it is a good thing (A good thing for America) that we help other nations improve their economic condition, I want the money to come from the private sector. Citizens of the US have always donated generously to foreign aid in times of tragedy, we would do more if the government was not in the way.
There is a case right now where a US citizen is facing a $10,000.00 federal fine for sending medicine to IRAQ? The feds should not be involved in deciding where I want to send medical aid.
There was a time when the US economy was so powerful that we could out produce the economies of the rest of the world. The rubber band is "snapping back" and the late baby boomers and the Gen-X'ers are going to pay the price. Again it was our government who artificially heated the economy over the last 50 years to get this huge lead. The integrated world economy is here, we can either be part of it, or on the outside looking in. Anybody on the outside looking in is gonna have it real rough.
quote:
Instead of taking the money from tv ads and paying a basketball player millions,
As far as the basketball players are concerned, are you promoting a Government mandated maximum salary on NBA players, or do you just resent the fact that they make so much? Have you every worn Nike's? Rebook? Converse? Have you ever attended a Game? Private citizens have chosen to pay these outrageous salaries to athletic freaks who can put an orange ball in a round hole. We also have the power to stop it. If enough of us loose interest, the salaries will come down. Right now the demand is so high the salaries are justified.
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...use it for something better like feeding the poor in this country.
As I said in another post, "Only in America are the poor more likely to die of Obesity than Malnutrition.
I can't quite figure out most of what you are saying with the AOL part. However, I can say for a fact I know many people who do not need high speed access. If somebody is only interested in e-mail, they don't need more than simple dial up. It does not make them second class citizens, it does not make them stupid, it just means their needs are different. Some people rent an apartment so that they can afford to lease a beemer. Other folks own a home, but can only afford a Yugo. They just have different needs. | |
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rojmiller
join:2003-12-30
Sault Ste Marie, ON
| Competition! I am posting from Canada, which I believe is number 2 in broadband usage in the world. Why are we ahead of the US - can't be population density, as some have suggested, because Canada has one of the lowest population densities of any country in the world. It isn't government subsidies either - yes the government has subsidized access to remote communities, but that probably hasn't significantly affected the numbers. And when we say remote, we mean remote - the US equivalent would be subsidizing remote communities in Alaska - it wouldn't have any effect on the US numbers either.
My take on the situation is healthy competition between cable companies and Telcos in Canada. I remember reading a few years back that Canada has a significantly higher portion of the population as cable TV subscribers than the US has - the vast majority of Canadians are cable TV subscribers. The reason historically was because, with fewer, wider spaced cities, cable gives you much better reception of many more channels in Canada. It also doubles the number of channels, as we also get all the US networks as well as the Canadian ones.
So I think what happened was in Canada as soon as broadband became a viable option, there was immediate competition in most of the country between a few large cable companies and a few large Telcos. It has kept our costs reasonable ($40 per month) and speeds high (1-3 Mbps downloads). (you can also get "lite speed" for $25 monthly from both cable companies & Telcos - there is no $10 broadband, as that article stated). The costs and speeds are pretty uniform across the country, because the large cable companies & Telcos have most of the country covered. We can also get DSL from other smaller non-Telco companies, but I don't know anyone who has gone that route.
Most of the people I know in Canada who have internet access are on broadband - either these people don't have a computer, or they have a computer and broadband. Yet all of my American relatives (my wife is American) are on dial-up! The school system here seems to assume you have good access at home to do research, although if you don't the schools all have high speed access. Maybe that is a driver as well - are US schools wired? When pre-teens and teenagers get used to fast Internet access, it is hard to keep them satisfied with dial-up! | |
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USA: Broadband Losers?
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