 
fiqqq
Mr. Chainsaw
Premium
join:2003-01-23
Wilmette, IL
clubs:  | hmmm wasnt the internet invented in order to provide a communications network resistant to a centralized disruption?
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placidness.com: my site. | |
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 | Alphy
join:2001-12-31
Troy, MI | Re: hmmm Exactly. Sounds like these CEO's are spinning this in order to boost revenue by fear-mongering. I mean yes, the internet is prone to major failure, but what major infrastructure isn't? | |
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Jafo232
You Can't Spell Democrat Without Rat.
Premium
join:2002-10-17
Boonville, NY
| Re: hmmm There is a simple way to take the Internet offline:
Take the powergrid down.
You don't even have to know how to use a computer to do that.
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Write Your News, Find Your News At PingPost.com | |
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Jigsaw
Stardust We Are
Premium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH
 ·Cox HSI
edit:
June 24th, @11:56AM
| Re: hmmm said by Jafo232  :There is a simple way to take the Internet offline: Take the powergrid down. You don't even have to know how to use a computer to do that. That happened here we were down for about a day and a half!I think it was one of the biggest blackouts in US history.
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»www.auralmoon.com/html/ Stimulating ears for 6 years | |
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| | | | | newyorkslick
join:2001-12-19
Rosedale, NY | Re: hmmm True, but I was still able to use my aol account to dial into Virginia. Even though most of the sites hosted in the affected area were down, the rest were working without a hitch.
Too bad my battery died after 2 hours. :-( | |
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Zeb
Premium
join:2000-07-10
Lewisville, TX | Re: hmmm If we are talking about the same thing.. it's because these ISPs didn't pay their Level3 bills. | |
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owenhome
keeper of the magic blue smoke
Premium
join:2002-07-13
Wichita Falls, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·AT&T Southwest
| Re: hmmm There was no bill. It was a peering agreement. The ISP's and L3 agreed to carry traffic for each other, for free. Kind of a "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" sort of thing.
L3 carried more traffic for the ISP's than the ISP's for L3. L3 decided this arrangement was no longer fair and wanted financial compensation. Unfortunately, there was a contract binding them to the free arrangement.
L3 wanted money, but the ISP's cited the contract and L3's free obligation causing a stalemate. That's were it started.
L3 said "Give me money!"
The ISP's said "Um, no, the contract says you will provide this service at no charge because we carry your traffic too!"
L3 said "Fine, I will just unplug you, contract or no contract, and you won't get plugged back in until you come up with some cash!"
And that's that. Finally, L3 agreed to resume peering services with the ISP's until an agreement for compensation could be reached.
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Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference. | |
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owenhome
keeper of the magic blue smoke
Premium
join:2002-07-13
Wichita Falls, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T Southwest
| Level 3 Communications, Inc.
The poster child of centralized-decentralization. With one stroke, one company affected thousands of other companies and individuals, exactly what the web was supposed to prevent in the first place.
We were not prepared for that, just as we are not prepared for any major outage.
Any major disruption of a handful of companies could bring this country to a grinding halt and us to our knees. That, in and of itself, is a major, MAJOR problem. You can well bet that any info-terrorist, or hostile foreign power would have L3, MCI, Sprint, AT&T, etc. in their sites and any major disruption to the web could be brought on just by crippling a few such companies. Such companies are extremely important to our well-being in many, many ways. Finance, big-business, small-business, even our utilities such as water, gas, and power depend on them.
We don't like to think so, but we built this system, a system which our country and the entire world depends on incessantly. And because this system depends on a handful of companies driven by the almighty dollar, by its very nature, it is doomed to disruption, corruption, monopolization, and ultimately, failure.
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Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference. | |
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| yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON | That's how it's supposed to work but in reality it's very centralized to minimize costs and maximize profits for the carriers. One outage of a major carrier could affect a huge portion of the internet. | |
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Jigsaw
Stardust We Are
Premium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH
·Cox HSI
| said by fiqqq :wasnt the internet invented in order to provide a communications network resistant to a centralized disruption? Don't worry when ATT takes over the internet it will suck so bad you won't want to go on it anyway.
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»www.auralmoon.com/html/ Stimulating ears for 6 years | |
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master1000
join:2001-02-22
Fort Pierre, SD
| Only after it happens Only after something big like this happens will they actually look at the problem and come up with a solution (witch is usually half assed anyway).. Till then they will take the internet for granted as something that will always be there no matter what.. | |
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| Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
| Re: Only after it happens said by master1000 :Only after something big like this happens will they actually look at the problem and come up with a solution (witch is usually half assed anyway).. Till then they will take the internet for granted as something that will always be there no matter what.. that sound like what happened with the power gird and how much as been done to fix that? | |
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master1000
join:2001-02-22
Fort Pierre, SD
| Re: Only after it happens There are far more devastating examples of what happens when people don't think ahead (New Orleans) so it's the same mentality for Government and Corporate America. Seems like allot of people think that this stuff can never happen then when it does everyone blames everyone and why didn't we think of taking care of this earlier and so on and so forth. I can guarantee that this report won't change a thing anywhere it's just going to be another discussion that disappears until an event actually happens... | |
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CoxCable4
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone | ' zero cool is still out there too | |
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N3OGH
Will it all be Obama's fault now?
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | Re: I can't live.............. In my best Reverend Lovejoy's wife voice..
WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN PORN!!!! | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| Re: I can't live.............. said by N3OGH :In my best Reverend Lovejoy's wife voice.. WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN PORN!!!! Yea, that too  | |
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Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Sarasota, FL
clubs:
 ·VoicePulse
| Why do we keep advertising it? Its what, ever 3 or 4 months we have another one of these "we couldn't survive an attack" reports? Are we trying to encourage them?
After lengthy review, I have concluded my home is ordinarilly very secure. But if someone were to come along and find the secret key I have hidden under the 3rd rock next to the tall bush.....well then I'd be screwed.
Signed with home address. --
AMD X2 4800+ @2700Mhz/ MSI K8N Neo 4 Platinum SLI/ 4x 1024Mb Corsair XMS PC4000/ WD 74Gb Raptor/ PNY 7800GTs SLI/ Antec 550 True Control/Custom water cooler | |
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Rogue Wolf
Came To Bury Caesar, Not To Praise Him
join:2003-08-12
Saratoga Springs, NY
| Re: Why do we keep advertising it? Just because we aren't thinking of it doesn't mean someone who wants to cause problems won't be. News articles like this keep the issue on the forefront of peoples' minds- the people who will keep clamoring for those in charge to fix the issue. Otherwise those in charge would simply sweep the problem under the rug for the sake of expediency, until the problem struck and caught us all flat-footed.
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Network failure. Hit any user to continue.
Confound a politician... think for yourself! | |
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Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
edit:
June 23rd, @03:07PM
| It would be too easy... I know in Seattle WA if you were to take out the Westin building downtown the entire Pacific NW's Internet (including Alaska) would be offline pretty much.
That one building hosts, lets see:
Seattle Internet Exchange (SIX) »www.seattleix.net/
Pacific NW Gigapop »www.pnw-gigapop.net/
See: »www.westinbuilding.com/ | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: It would be too easy... TERRORIST! | |
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adriang5555
join:2003-12-09
Amarillo, TX
| CEOs Talking About Stuff they Know nothing about This is a panel of CEOs who probably know very little about how the internet actually works. Each ISP and major backbone provider is responsible for there own piece, and they work through security threats to thier own network each and every day. If there was some sort of massive attack that caused huge outages or disruption, each ISP, enterprise's IT teams, etc would work to identify the problem, fix it, and get thier portion secured and back online. Sure, there is potential for nasty security threats by very smart people, but there are also people who are just as smart who work to combat these threats and get information out to those who need help. So, just like with any other outage due to a security issue or other attach, the actual infrastructure suppliers who's pieces actually make up the internet would work to isolate the issue and secure and restore thier portion as quickly as possible. Major backbone providers monitor there networks with a fine tooth comb to immediately identify any major issues and stop it closest to its source, and with the tools they have its not hard to do. The only true way for a complete catastrophic failure to occur that would keep the "entire internet" down is if the entire country was to loose power for weeks or months, but if that were to happen then the internet would not matter at that point anyway. It would be the last of our concerns | |
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ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
| Such Horsefeathers Where do these CEO's come up with such DUH stories...
Studies show that hitting oneself in head usually hurts. A double blind study shows that when a person regardless of age or sex smashes oneself in the head with their own fist it hurt 99.5% of the participants. /end sarcasm
If the Internets going to go down, then maybe we shouldn't have become as complacent in the trust that we have put in internet connected storage devices.
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Current Custom Tronix Mini-Gamer PC:EVGA 133-K8-NF43, AMD XP 64 3200+, 2x512 DDR Memory in Dual-Channel mode, 2x Diablotek nVidia GF 6600 w/512 MB DDR2, WD RAPTOR 10k RPM SATA-150, 16x DVD-ROM, 600W PSU, Mid-Tower Dragon Case ~$1235 + S&H | |
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bgraham
join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Just a PR Piece Just a bunch of PR work.
If you destroy half of any infastructure the other half has a struggle to cope. This applies to the internet, roads, the countries electrical system and the phone system.
If I remember correctly according to what i read in the press, it was tough to get on the internet in New Orleans after Katrina.
I am sure a couple of 15 year old kids in high school in China or Russia could bring the internet to its knees in a few days if they wanted to using hijacked zombie computers. | |
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| grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY | Re: Just a PR Piece That same day those kids would be brought down to there knees. Can you say MAD doctrine? | |
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averagedude
join:2002-01-30
Mesa, AZ
·Cox HSI
edit:
June 23rd, @03:41PM
| Greatest danger from
backhoe |
edit for pic | |
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mbnt
join:2002-06-22
Clifton, NJ | Really now.. since when has the U.S. been prepared for anything?
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Mission Viejo, CA
clubs:
| That's Funny neither the government nor the private sector has a coordinated plan to respond to an attack, natural disaster or other disruption of the Internet Neither the government -save for the USCG- nor the private sector had a disaster recovery plan -or, for that matter, any kind of plan in place for Hurricane Katrina, either.
/sarc[H]asm | |
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| garmst
join:2000-09-17
New York, NY | Re: That's Funny They did have a Disaster Plan for Katrina. New Orleans just didn't follow it. | |
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raye
Premium
join:2000-08-14
Orange, CA
| US Well Prepared for CEO outage Why people give these folks credence is beyond me.
Isn't the point of the Internet that no one is in charge?
I shudder to think what would happen under large scale attack if one of the CEOs in that room had "responsibility" for the correct functioning of the "Internet".
This definitely falls into the "Just Doesn't Get It" category. | |
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FiL
Premium
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD | lmao im with Average Joe...gotdamn Tractors! | |
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Pictor Guy
join:2004-06-21
Sammamish, WA | NE Power outage I think we (most) Tier One ISPs handled the North East power outage from a few years ago very well. Much better than the phone companies did. And that goes for 9-11 too. | |
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spike010101
Lets Get Retarted
Premium
join:2003-11-28
Lacey, WA | g Are we talking about a like blow up internet server builds attack or dos attacks against magor internet centers | |
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rob_in_chatt
Premium
join:2004-09-17
Chattanooga, TN | failure let AOL control the internet for about 6 months if you want it to fail. | |
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| jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS | Re: failure 6 months? More like 6 days. 
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BTK is guilty!!!! | |
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StillNotRegistered
@verizon.net
| Glad they're making like $10,000/hr! Some really good comments here so far, especially about the backhoe being the greatest threat to the Internet!
I did a qiuck read of the report's intro/background, recommendations and conclusions and I can conclude that there doesn't appear to be much to it. It's very general and full of motherhood-and-apple-pie stuff. For example, the last line of the report :
"A coordinated response will help our nation and our economy recover more quickly following a cyber attack."
Hey, thanks for the insight. I hope that bit of advice didn't cost us all too much!
And the recommendations mostly sound like minor adaptations of generic management improvement concepts ("Set strategic needs and direction; Consolidate early warning and response organizations; Agree on an information-sharing mechanism" - need I go on?)
Here's a good one: "The Roundtable recommends that DHS and industry institutions create formal processes to exercise and train for Internet-reconstitution emergencies." Inspires some interesting visuals, doesn't it?
So will we all have cans of "Internet Reconstitution Matter" in our basements to be prepared?
I don't know anything about the Business Roundtable and what their bent might be, but as others have said one should approach whatever a group of CEOs from a number of large companies has to say with due skepticism, especially this opening line:
"The Internet and its communications infrastructure serve as the critical backbone of information exchange that is vital to our nation’s security and our economy."
What kind of security are they referring to? What we generally call National Security, financial security, economic security, a general sense of well-being? It's what is not written that can often be the most powerful, as the reader tends to fill in with what happens to be in his imagination at the moment. | |
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| public
join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Glad they're making like $10,000/hr! said by StillNotRegistered :
Here's a good one: "The Roundtable recommends that DHS and industry institutions create formal processes to exercise and train for Internet-reconstitution emergencies."
Why not have Chertie practice calling Bangalore to request technical support? | |
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DSLTech
join:2000-12-30
San Jose, CA
edit:
June 24th, @01:12PM
| Support smaller to mid-size IP Transit providers The more equality we have when it comes to the major Tier 1 providers, the more likely:
a) they'll play nicely with eachother
b) IP Transit costs will stay reasonable
c) they'll have less ability to arbitrarily make negative changes, as i'm sure would happen if only one or two providers exist
d) most importantly, there will be enough providers and diversity that the concept of this thread becomes laughable
It will then be like saying: US not prepared for major national highway outage.
Diversification is important. Competition is important, and not just for prices. | |
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U.S. Not Prepared for Major Internet Outage
