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story category U.S. Finally Tries To Figure Out Who Has Broadband
After years of relying on the FCC's rose colored glasses...
02:08PM Monday Sep 29 2008 by Karl Bode
tags: fcc · business · wireless · stats
For the last decade the FCC's broadband data collection methodology has been largely a joke, which means that the agency has been making sweeping policy decisions based on incomplete data. In an effort to rectify this, the Senate last Friday passed the Broadband Data Improvement Act, which would get the GAO (outspoken critics of the FCC) and the census system more involved in broadband mapping, and provides grants to private-public mapping efforts (yes, that includes the controversial Connected Nation group).

This is on top of the FCC's recent decision to bump the definition of broadband from 200kbps to 768kbps, and to ditch their flawed zip code measuring system (for years, the FCC insisted that one wired home in a zip code meant that entire zip code had broadband) for deeper census-track level reporting. The gist? In a few years we might actually know who has broadband and who doesn't, which might just lead to FCC decisions based on actual data. Maybe.

Incumbent ISPs haven't been particularly forthcoming with broadband penetration data, and have fought those who try to obtain it in court. The bill also does little good if the groups they're giving grants to, like Connected Nation, are in fact simply incumbent ISP policy vessels tasked with putting on a good dog and pony show. Still, at least the country seems to have identified -- perhaps a decade too late -- that there's a problem with our approach to mapping.

Related:
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  5. Clearwire CEO: FCC Approval Would Be 'Good Policy.'
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  8. FCC's Martin Praises Self For Non-Existent Network Openness
Forums » U.S. Finally Tries To Figure Out Who Has Broadband
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bobjohnson
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join:2007-02-03
Titusville, FL

edit:
September 29th, @02:07PM

Why not just as a part of the census?

They could always just add that as a box in the 2010 census... They have been trying to figure it out for years another year and a half won't hurt
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19

Re: Why not just as a part of the census?

said by bobjohnson See Profile :

They could always just add that as a box in the 2010 census... They have been trying to figure it out for years another year and a half won't hurt
No thanks. The census is already a bloated, intrusive joke. Did you take a good look at the last one--since when does income, job occupation and all the other irrelevant questions that were asked qualify as a census? Last time I checked the Constitution, a "census" measured one thing: head count. Leave me alone. Measure BB penetration the old fashioned way. Use some of the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that has already been pissed away on other "studies."

NetAdmin

join:2008-05-22

Re: Why not just as a part of the census?

said by SilverSurfer See Profile :

No thanks. The census is already a bloated, intrusive joke. Did you take a good look at the last one--since when does income, job occupation and all the other irrelevant questions that were asked qualify as a census?
Since it is useful to know that information. Where do you think information like median income or level of education come from, thin air? You might believe that data to be irrelevant, but contrary to what you believe, it is very important.

And last I checked, those question about income and education are completely voluntary.
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SilverSurfer

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Re: Why not just as a part of the census?

said by NetAdmin See Profile :

And last I checked, those question about income and education are completely voluntary.
Clearly, you didn't read through the legalese thoroughly. No part of the last census was voluntary. Further, all those cute little "thin air" stats you mentioned can be just as easily ascertained via other channels, not the census since same was not ever set up to collect the other data which you seek.

Unless and until the Constitution to is amended by a 2/3rds vote, the census shall remain what it was originally set up to do: Count heads.

NetAdmin

join:2008-05-22


edit:
September 29th, @08:53PM

Re: Why not just as a part of the census?

said by SilverSurfer See Profile :

Unless and until the Constitution to is amended by a 2/3rds vote, the census shall remain what it was originally set up to do: Count heads.
Contrary that statement, the Constitution does permit the Census to do more than count heads... Read the actual text of the document:

Representation and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers ... . The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.
See that part that says "in such Manner as they shall by Law direct" ? That basically means that Congress can, via legislation, add or subtract from the Census questions and information gathered. The Constitution only states that the Census MUST count people, but it does not prohibit or disallow further information to be gathered.
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SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19

Re: Why not just as a part of the census?

said by NetAdmin See Profile :

See that part that says "in such Manner as they shall by Law direct" ? That basically means that Congress can, via legislation, add or subtract from the Census questions and information gathered.
Right. Operative words here: ...shall by law direct... What is the section of the federal body of statutes that specifically states that Congre$$ had added on the irrelevant questions in the Census? Oh that's right, they didn't. Those questions were added just because the whores' corporate masters wanted the data.

NetAdmin

join:2008-05-22

Re: Why not just as a part of the census?

said by SilverSurfer See Profile :

What is the section of the federal body of statutes that specifically states that Congre$$ had added on the irrelevant questions in the Census? Oh that's right, they didn't.
Check again.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_13_o···tes_Code

And see the section called legal mandate at »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta···s_Bureau

And you keep repeating that the statistics gathered are irrelevant... Maybe to you, but not to people who do policy and other types of research.
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SilverSurfer is right about the mandatory part. Refusing or neglecting to answer is $100 fine, lying is $500. (13USC221)

This was the list of 2000 topics.

# Introduction

Includes: Federal Agency Abbreviations, Federal Users of Census Data; and Index to Questions Planned for Census 2000

# Basic Facts About Us

Includes: Age*; Gender*; Relationship*; Marital Status; Race*; Hispanic Origin*

# Income and Employment

Includes: Income; Labor Force Status; Industry, Occupation, and Class of Worker; Work Status Last Year; Veteran Status

# Transportation

Includes: Place of Work and Journey to Work; Vehicles Available

# Education

Includes: Education: Enrollment and Attainment

# Origins and Languages

Includes: Ancestry; Place of Birth, Citizenship, and Year of Entry; Language Spoken at Home

# Where We Move

Includes: Residence 5 Years Ago

# Disability and Caregivers

Includes: Disability; Grandparents as Caregivers

# Housing: Physical Characteristics

Includes: Year Structure Built; Units in Structure; Rooms; Bedrooms; Kitchen Facilities; Telephone Service Available; House Heating Fuel; Year Moved into Unit; Farm Residence

# Housing: Financial Characteristics

Includes: Tenure*; Value; Selected Monthly Owner Costs (Shelter Costs); Rent

»www.census.gov/dmd/www/content.htm
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said by bobjohnson See Profile :

They could always just add that as a box in the 2010 census... They have been trying to figure it out for years another year and a half won't hurt
I would worry a little about overloading the census, but I like this idea very much.

It serves a couple of purposes in a very even-handed way. For example, how many residences have access to broadband vs. how many individuals do. Families and roommate situations tend to skew the numbers this way and that.

Good idea, Bob!
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bobjohnson
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Re: Why not just as a part of the census?

said by funchords See Profile :

said by bobjohnson See Profile :

They could always just add that as a box in the 2010 census... They have been trying to figure it out for years another year and a half won't hurt
I would worry a little about overloading the census, but I like this idea very much.

It serves a couple of purposes in a very even-handed way. For example, how many residences have access to broadband vs. how many individuals do. Families and roommate situations tend to skew the numbers this way and that.

Good idea, Bob!
If the companies aren't cooperating then it's just one more box that narrows it down to at least 95% accuracy (Some people don't know what they have or have access to.) Then send a few foot soldiers on the taxpayers dime instead of the other ideas
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Duramax08
Oy, Pass It on.

join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX

I don't have broadband

Theres one. Anyone else? Might aswell help out the FCC
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DataDoc
Waiting for Godot
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Re: I don't have broadband

said by Duramax08 See Profile :

Theres one. Anyone else? Might aswell help out the FCC
They're not listening.
stevephl

join:2000-11-27
Colorado Springs, CO

Re: I don't have broadband

Who cares who has broadband, what good will the data do? There are bigger issues to worry about then who does or doesn't have broadband.

DataDoc
Waiting for Godot
Premium
join:2000-05-14
Greenville, NC

Re: I don't have broadband

Can I guess from your response you must already have it? Once we have the data maybe something will be done to get it for more people and businesses.

Broadband is for more than downloading porn and gamers.
Vespid

join:2002-09-24
Sharon, MA
great observation....and we should stop the Census Bureau from collecting all of that pesky geo-demographic data as well!

Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
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join:2002-12-17
Huntsville, AL
I agree that there are many larger problems than broadband availability, but just because there are bigger problems, doesnt mean we should ignore the small ones.
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Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA

Re: I don't have broadband

No we should ignore small problems until they become large problems, then start working on them when its too late.
bcoleman71

join:2007-09-18
Dallas, TX

I for one care! One thing having accurate broadband penetration data will do is block an avenue of lies that the major broadband providers and their lobbyists try to sell to congress and everybody else about how much competition there is out there! Hopefully it will remove the avenue of lies they are telling about the "looming broadband apocalypse" and how we are "running out of bandwidth" as well. I hate to say this but this country is full of people who believe anything they hear on the news. They lack the ability to think critically about the information they are being sold on some of these so called "news shows".

Also, just because there is a financial meltdown in progress in this country does not mean we should take our eyes off of the broadband ball. If we let ourselves fall further behind the rest of the world, our ability to compete on a global scale will be hurt a lot worse than it is now. The lies that the major broadband providers and their lobbyists have been selling and spinning (and quite successfully I might add!) will eventually lead to the countries that get it right being the ones who will shape the future of the internet. Is that what you want to happen? You want to see us lose our competitive edge? This nation has always been on the forefront of innovation and unless we get these companies to start acting more in the interests of the general public that they serve, we will continue to lose our competitive edge to other nations and with that, the potential for new jobs that are created from the innovation will go with it will be lost (or severely reduced) as well!

Duramax08
Oy, Pass It on.

join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX
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Re: I don't have broadband

"Also, just because there is a financial meltdown in progress in this country does not mean we should take our eyes off of the broadband ball"

Its a little to late. They took their eyes off the ball and now trying to fix the economy. They pretty much drop the broadband ball for the economic ball and work and work and work on it with nothing being accomplished. Eventually it will get fixed. Then something else is gona mess up and the government is just gona focus on that. The government to me is not a multi-tasking kind of guy. No wonder everything is screwed up as it is. We are way behind on the internet game, We are barely on the map. Even smaller countries got faster internet then all of us. Me? im still on dial up.

"FCC's recent decision to bump the definition of broadband from 200kbps to 768kbps"

IM STILL ON 56K LOL

broadbandforall

@direcpc.com

i agree with you 100%,also im in georgia and we cant even get gas right now,and our state officials are calling for us to work from home 1 or 2 days a week,as our economy gets worse and worse more people need to be working from home and many can not do that with out broadband with out broadband for everybody in the us we will just keep falling behind,and as we all know this country needs all the help it can get

broadbandforall

@direcpc.com

Re: I don't have broadband

also around here if your not within 2 1/2 miles from town you can not get cable or dsl satt. and dialup is our only option,and that is ridiculous that in 2008 cable and dsl hasn't expanded any farther than that
PDXPLT

join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR


edit:
September 29th, @04:06PM

said by stevephl See Profile :

Who cares who has broadband, what good will the data do? There are bigger issues to worry about then who does or doesn't have broadband.
Congress ordered the FCC to care, in the 1996 Telecomm Act. If you don't think this should be U.S. policy, write yout Congresspeople.

TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
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Bill still has to pass the House

The Senate passed this, but it is not passed in the House. It is assigned to a House committee and may not be passed before this session of Congress ends.

5/24/2007 Introduced in Senate
10/24/2007 Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation. Reported by Senator Inouye with an amendment in the nature of a substitute.
9/26/2008 Passed/agreed to in Senate: Passed Senate with an amendment by Unanimous Consent.
9/27/2008 Referred to House committee: Referred to the House Committee on Energy and Commerce.

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pnh102
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Mount Airy, MD

Just Close Congress

Why is Congress bothering with this information?

Anyone who wants to find out if broadband is available at a given address can consult the various ISPs and find out for themselves.

Is Congress doing anything actually useful? Perhaps they should just take the next year off.
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Re: Just Close Congress

said by pnh102 See Profile :

Why is Congress bothering with this information?

Anyone who wants to find out if broadband is available at a given address can consult the various ISPs and find out for themselves.

Is Congress doing anything actually useful? Perhaps they should just take the next year off.
The ISPs won't release the information. My guess is because even they don't know for the most part until a truck is rolled.
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pnh102
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Re: Just Close Congress

said by Matt See Profile :

The ISPs won't release the information. My guess is because even they don't know for the most part until a truck is rolled.
»Re: Point Has Merit

People who want to know if broadband is available at a specific address can find the information themselves though. There's no need for Congress to intervene at all.
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Boogeyman
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Re: Just Close Congress

Except those sites arent always accurate either. I have personally seen cases where it said you could get broudband, signed up for it, then they told the subscribers that it wasnt possible. And I have seen where it says it wasnt available, only to call the local office and ask when it would be available and find out it has been available for over a year.

Granted this was 3 years ago, but I've heard similar anecdotes from others as recently as a few months ago.
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bcoleman71

join:2007-09-18
Dallas, TX

Like I stated above, making the information public will keep the ISPs and their lobbyists from lying about how well connected we, as consumers, already are and how much competition there is for us (the consumer). With that information being readily available, we (the consumer) and they (congress) will know for sure where and how much competition there is and who has access and who doesn't have access. After all, this is (supposedly) a government of, by, and for the people - not the lobbyists and their clients! It seems a lot of people have lost sight of that fact.
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Pittsburgh, PA

said by pnh102 See Profile :

Is Congress doing anything actually useful? Perhaps they should just take the next year off.
Would you settle for at least a month, maybe three. Most members of Congress are hitting the campaign trail and may not be back until January.
beaups

join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH

dumb

when you live out in the country, you accept the fact that things are going to be different. I lived 40 miles from the city for YEARS and we finally got TW right before I moved. Frankly, I would've rather had CITY WATER, or CITY SEWAGE. I don't remember anyone surveying me on whether or not I had city water. anyhow I took care of all of that by MOVING. it was really quite simple.

Smoky Tom

@charter.com

U.S. Finally Tries to Fifure out who has broadband

The question should be in two parts. Do you have broadband available, and do you have broadband? The first part is the most important for the FCC. Maybe a follow-up would be, if available, why do you choose to NOT use the service?
elray

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At what price?

If rural folks (who are saving a bundle on real estate) won't bite on $50 satellite, how low is the price to go before it is considered ok?

Instead of trenching the whole countryside at $50K/address, maybe it would make sense to revive ISDN-BRI and IDSL, and declare 144K acceptable speed for those who won't pay more, and use some universal-service funds to make a national rate plan, say, $30/month?

(And yes, I know, I'm trying to go below $24.95 myself, but I paid $60/month for many years without complaining.)
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