UK ISPs Not Keen On Being BabysittersOr being held liable for false-positive piracy showdowns 12:55PM Friday Feb 15 2008 by Karltags: Fileswapping · business · privacy · world · net-neutralityThe entertainment industry is pushing for UK laws that would require ISPs track user piracy on their networks, and implement a "three strikes and your out" policy, whereby a user would be disconnected after a third offense. UK ISPs aren't keen to be cyber-nannies, and are asking the entertainment industry to "put its money where its mouth is," according to the Register, and pick up the legal bill when they accidentally target users incorrectly. UK ISPs tell the BBC they'd like to remain "mere conduits": A spokesman for the Internet Service Providers Association (ISPA) said the 2002 E-Commerce Regulations defined net firms as "mere conduits" and not responsible for the contents of the traffic flowing across their networks. He added that other laws on surveillance explicitly prohibited ISPs from inspecting the contents of data packets unless forced to do so by a warrant. That position is in stark contrast to the States, where warrants are becoming a relic of the past, and ISPs like AT&T are preparing to voluntarily employ piracy filters on their network. The entertainment industry in the States has been likewise applying some serious pressure on lawmakers in the hopes that they will pass regulation forcing ISPs to filter pirated material. They wouldn't mind filters on networking gear and in anti-virus software, either.
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 zed260
join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN | at least at least there are some sane isps in this world | |
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Noah Vail
Serial Thread Killer
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
 ·Verizon BroadbandA..
 ·VoicePulse
| RIAss of A. Protecting the Artists Interests. Or at least protecting the interest
they make off of the money
they withheld, through fraud,
from the artists who earned it.
Universal is being sued by the artists they ripped off.
»www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=···r=europe
This is what you defend if you defend the RIAA.
Shill out dude.
NV
--
Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd. | |
| | mlundin
join:2001-03-27
Mishawaka, IN | Too bad they're on the other side of the pond... | |
| | 
sharkpedal
join:2005-05-04
PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
edit:
February 15th, @01:25PM
| right...and is "the entertainment industry" a global ruling entity? Let the UK et al govern as they see fit.
"They wouldn't mind filters on networking gear and in anti-virus software, either" GOOD LUCK...as I said in a previous post now you are asking other companies to adopt your rules. | |
| | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
 ·Mediacom
| Re: at least said by sharkpedal  :right...and is "the entertainment industry" a global ruling entity? If you're speaking about the IFPI, then yes, they are working to establish regulation in the EU to do this. | |
| daveberstein
join:2002-07-15
New York, NY
| Alas, the tracking is coming I hate this stuff, but The BBC report on this is naive. While "net providers said legal and technical
barriers prohibit them from being anything other than a 'mere conduit'," seems reasonable to many, and I support, the technology is there and will be used in some countries.
In Europe, Deutsche Telekom is saying they will specifically do that. At what I believe massive cost (probably around $1B, but no hard data), DT has built a network designed to track "Every session, of every customer, all of the time," as their people openly discussed at the BBWF in Berlin a few months ago. Key suppliers Siemens, Alcatel, and Cisco at the same event presented on how they could do that, each suggesting their equipment was the best for the purpose. Other European carriers are considering similar, with unconfirmed rumors Telecom Italia is doing so.
DT explained this was so they could sell QOS to content providers. This post is about whether the technology can be made to work with sufficient spending; let's discuss Net neutrality issues elsewhere.
I know the chief British regulator, Ed Richards of OFCOM, knows this issue because the DT plan was discussed at length when he visited a Columbia seminar (including my strong statements against it.) His German peer, Matthias Kurth, and the EU Commissioner, Vivane Reding, have also discussed it at public meetings. So if we don't want monitoring, we need to show why it's wrong, not rely on the claim it's technically impractical.
Neither DT nor AT&T have put this equipment to extensive use, but their opinion that it can be done will convince most in Europe. The telcos in Europe are enormously attracted to the idea, as numerous consultants and manufacturers suggest they will make a heck of a lot of money selling services. That's totally unproven, but my take after two visits to Europe is that most (70-90%) of the people in the telecom business think that's the future.
These are important issues, so getting the facts right is worth the effort.
Dave Burstein
Editor, DSL Prime | |
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Noah Vail
Serial Thread Killer
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA | Re: Alas, the tracking is coming Thanks for the report Dave. Very good stuff.
Looks like I have some reading to do...
Nv
--
Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd. | |
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Noah Vail
Serial Thread Killer
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·Verizon BroadbandA..
·VoicePulse
| FISA, HIPAA & EIEIO. With great FanFare, our Beltway Protectors passed the HIPPA act, insuring billions of dollars of compliance costs every year.
Exactly how many people, violate my privacy, through my medical records? It could be as many as Zero, per year. NOBODY CARES about my medical secrets. Most days, I don't care.
The worst part about these types of privacy laws is that they don't do anything to thwart the types of privacy violations that might actually occur.
Individuals rarely have any interest in somebody else's private data. Mostly, because peoples secrets are BORING. Half the time we can't get away from someone trying to verbally publish their life story to us, including medical.
Companies, on the other hand, violate my privacy every day. Why? Because it's LUCRATIVE.
The collection of purchases, habits, preferences, actions, memberships and other ancillary things that make up my life are my life's work. They are my creation, same as a song or book might be. I choose who I will distribute my life's work to, by interaction with them or story telling.
That other people can take my life's work and profit from it, when I have made no decision to market it, is piracy. It's not even personal use piracy (if such a thing exists), it's distribution for profit piracy.
HIPAA has done nothing to protect me.
I'm pretty sure the CEO of Henry Schein, my local sheriff, or the IRS could acquire my complete medical history if they truly wanted it. Any of the above have far more chance of impacting my life in a way I do not desire, then farmer Burt and Aunt Ethel in PikeSnot MN. Yet, HIPAA targets Burt and Ethel and ignores people with actual power.
Maybe that was a HIPPA goal, to maintain the existing power structures.
Now I have a huge government intelligence entity who is actively pursuing (and getting) as complete a copy of my internet traffic as possible. The whole argument for FISA wiretaps is that they wouldn't impact Burt and Ethel calling about their grandchildren.
Now the NSA is attempting to collect every email Burt and Ethel will ever send about their grandkids, and their bank account traffic, and their purchase habits, and....
Is anyone here getting this? The NSA is moving toward the goal of permanently recording everyones complete internet history. They have been taking bids on the database development and equipment necessary to store and sort what they collect. We are moving closer to cost efficiency of parsing and maintaining those huge data stores.
How many years until ISPs will be forced to regularly forward their IP assignment and use records? I bet we see movement on it in less than 5 years. (Yea, whatever. 5 years ago you thought the idea of the NSA copying main internet pipes was paranoid.)
I don't understand
why so many people
who want a warrant
for law enforcement to share
a small part of their life,
will turn around and allow LE to copy their life's data with no accountability at all.
Why yes, that WAS the stupidest thing you've ever seen Americans do.
You are not your own for much longer. We are all becoming wards of the state.
NV
--
Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd. | |
| | 
Mce Stl
@spcsdns.net
| Dave:
The BBC's report is less than clear, but I didn't read the article as implying that monitoring was technically impossible, but only technically hard/problematic - given the context/framework in which the monitoring occurs.
That is, as I understand it, it's virtually impossible for the monitoring device/software to distinguish between *legal* P2P file sharing ('fair use' academic uses of media; sampling, etc.) and P2P sharing of pirated material. The inability of the monitoring device/software to make a judgment call (this here is legal file sharing; that over there is illegal file sharing) IS a technical limitation.
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| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| if it doesnt raise network capacity or stability its not really a worthy cost use. if i where an investor id not want the company whos stock i own to waste money on piracy filters when they could be say upgrading to fatter pipes.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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mrchris
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY
edit:
February 15th, @01:36PM
| Block? Yea sure, people can just rename the files to something illegible and get around it and the recieving user can just rename it back. | |
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Andy S
@fslgroup.com | Re: Block? Well it's not that easy because they aren't scanning for file names. BUT Encryption of the P2P stream would definately curb their peeking. | |
| DemonicLlama
join:2007-11-19
Potomac, MD
 ·DIRECTV
| filters So, if they put piracy filters on home networking equipment...steal at work? or buy business networking equipment that lacks the filters??? Anyway great news for hardware makers. You want content blocked by our equipment, sure we'll help...for a price. how does $5 fee per unit sound? I dont see them doing this for free and in some shrinking markets its a new way to increase revenue imo. | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| Re: filters problem with filters is they never ever work, most have proven that they have issues telling the difference between a movie of a kids Bday party and the latest hollywood release.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | | DemonicLlama
join:2007-11-19
Potomac, MD | Re: filters Yea my thought was that linksys and others may think of this as a cash grab despite the filters not working as intended. | |
| 
BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
clubs:
·Cox HSI
| Its sad While I applaud the UK's ISP's for not wanting to be pawns to the RIAA/MPAA types, I think its proper to keep in perspective that these are the most photographed people on the planet with tons of CCTV surveillance conducted all over the place by their loving and benevolent government, so to think that these people (and I mean no offense) are privacy hounds a bit ridiculous.
I think the real story, and the real tragedy, is the story of how the internet has become what it is today. It seems to me the spirit of the internet has been totally and completely violated by just about everybody and everything. Businesses, from carriers to ISPs to websites have implemented tracking technologies that to track our every movement on the internet, where we go, what we look at, how long we're there, etc. In some cases you have ISPs breaking RFC compliant services (such as DNS) in order to squeeze a few extra bucks to show you worthless ads. You have Uncle Sam, not wanting to miss out on the action, looking over our shoulders. I've been a member of the internet since the mid 1990s (with a 33.6Kbps modem actually) and its just a shame to see that the internet has become like Christmas, everybody's trying to squeeze out every penny and the original message is lost.
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"Don't steal. The government hates competition." | |
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mrchris
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | Re: Its sad Someone needs to drop an EMP on London  | |
| | | DemonicLlama
join:2007-11-19
Potomac, MD | Re: Its sad Goldeneye for sale | |
| | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL | When the Internet moved out of the DoD and education realms, the movement towards generating revenue was inevitable. After all, somebody has to pay for the infrastructure if tax dollars aren't. | |
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Noah Vail
Serial Thread Killer
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
edit:
February 15th, @03:26PM
| Self Moderated for Your Protection. But oddly enough, it's not as off topic when posted in response to the DaveBerstein Post.
NV | |
|
riaa suck me
| amazing is anyone else other then me totaly amazed that the riaa keeps insisting that other companys do their work for them? They keep telling isps what to do, now its anti virus, hey you guys really should have stuff in there to block this. Common, for real i wish i could pass off my work onto other people like they keep trying to do.
Rather then tell other companys that directly have nothing to do with what your selling, do your own job and leave everyone else the hell alone. | |
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