 jc100
join:2002-04-10
 ·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
August 24th, @02:58PM
| Must be a slow news day Wasn't this to be expected. Next up, the Business Software Alliance (BSA). These companies will sue their customers into poverty, if they could. I think these days people often download just to say I did, more so the need to. Sometimes pissing everyone off, serves to alienate the rest. There's something called a moderate stance on things. Maybe these guys should learn that. The heavy handed technique doesn't win you friends or supporters. It just makes everyone mad and despise your methodology. | |
|  | 
BIGMIKE
"I do not know with what weapons World W
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA
| Re: Must be a slow news day Game Developer Asks To Hear From Pirates
"Indie game developer Cliff Harris has long waged war against games piracy, but has issued a call to pirates to tell him why he is wrong. Assuming that developers are missing out on potential sales from disgruntled pirates, Cliff wants to hear specifically from people who have pirated his games. Not to criticize or lecture them, but to answer a simple question. Why? The reasons people give for copyright infringement/piracy are many and varied, but much of the debate has centred around music and movies, with big 'Triple-A' games an occasional consideration. With specific application to the world of small budget 'indie' games like those Cliff makes, he wants to know the thought processes behind people pirating the games. What puts people off buying? Is it quality, cost, DRM, ease of access? Is there anything that can be done to convert those people to buyers? While many pirates often make good general points about the reasons for the widespread pirating of PC games, it's unusual to get a chance to address specific developers with specific reasons. If you knew 100% that the developer would read your email explaining why you pirated their game, what would you say? »yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=···from=rss | |
| | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
August 24th, @09:51PM
| Re: Must be a slow news day I'm not an avid gamer, but I HAVE bought several games in past. Star Craft, Counter Strike, Counter Strike Source, War Craft, etc. I have also bought loads of software too. Yet, my persona; opinion on why I've also downloaded stuff is as follows. I get sick of the price gauging that often takes place for software and games. I know their are development costs and people to pay, but let's be realistic. Companies often OVERLY INFLATE items. Look at a music CD. Most have 1 or 2 good songs, but are 20 dollars. Why do you think people now are wiling to go to the buy per song model? Itunes is a MEGA HIT.
People want to buy what they like, and not be gauged for excess. Personally, I'll tell you where I do buy from for games, Valve. Steam has got the right idea about Downloading Games for 10 or 20 dollars. Why is this smart, well I got the game On my computer and don't have to pay for the packaging, distribution, and cost of a hard copy. This cuts the price in half or more on a lot of things. Sure, I think Valve needs to chop more off the actual price for some stuff bought online. I mean, you aren't given a hard copy and the perks as said above. Still, they are migrating to the right Mindset. Tailor to the needs of customers, and cut out the frivilous crap, and you get people to spend money. | |
| | | 
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·Packet8
edit:
August 25th, @03:59AM
| You mean his asking what to do after they have removed the fuckin' DRMs, rootkits and all the fuckin crap a rightful owner has to put up with???
Tell him fuck off, along with all the worthless BS crap EA and all the mega-giga-corps throw out yearly - and that he needs to talk to cookie-crunching fat@ss but smartie Newell and look at Steam, the convenience they offer and then take 50% off of any current AAA-title's pricetag and then people might will consider buying his games.
--
| |
| | | Necronomikro
join:2005-09-01
edit:
August 25th, @12:46PM
| said by BIGMIKE  :Game Developer Asks To Hear From Pirates "Indie game developer Cliff Harris has long waged war against games piracy, but has issued a call to pirates to tell him why he is wrong. Assuming that developers are missing out on potential sales from disgruntled pirates, Cliff wants to hear specifically from people who have pirated his games. Not to criticize or lecture them, but to answer a simple question. Why? The reasons people give for copyright infringement/piracy are many and varied, but much of the debate has centred around music and movies, with big 'Triple-A' games an occasional consideration. With specific application to the world of small budget 'indie' games like those Cliff makes, he wants to know the thought processes behind people pirating the games. What puts people off buying? Is it quality, cost, DRM, ease of access? Is there anything that can be done to convert those people to buyers? While many pirates often make good general points about the reasons for the widespread pirating of PC games, it's unusual to get a chance to address specific developers with specific reasons. If you knew 100% that the developer would read your email explaining why you pirated their game, what would you say? »yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=···from=rss I recently re-purchased a couple of blizzard titles via their download store, and was pleasantly surprised by the lack of DRM in the new version. No copy protection, just the requirement of having a key to play on their servers. That works for me. (I, in fact, mostly play it lan or single-player).
For smaller companies, if I download it, its often due lack of availability of the game.
I prefer to download the games, and will sometimes pay for the download (a la steam, or blizzard's new download store).
So, my response? Allow for downloads of your game, direct distribution, and don't charge more for the download than it costs in a store. | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| games are generally the rare software that is worth its price. MS has no need to charge $300 for windows and $400 for office, they do because they can. same as Adobe charging over a grand for much of theirs(i bet photoshop piracy would greatly decline if it where sold for 49.95 at bestbuy).
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | | jc100
join:2002-04-10 | Re: Must be a slow news day Agreed. Hell Maya Unlimited is 10,000 dollars! I mean really? Software that costs as much as a Car? | |
| | | | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: Must be a slow news day If it's used to do animations for multi-million dollar grossing movies, and it's the best software for the job, why not charge as much as they can? | |
| | | | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Must be a slow news day Well that's my point. It's price gouging. I'm not for once going to say your average person spends 10,000 on Maya. Still, just because it has the potential to animate a great movie, doesn't mean one should charge an arm and a leg. A car has the potential to drive around the world and get prob 3 or 400,000 miles if kept up. Should a dealer charge you based on the possible usage of the car versus the actual value? | |
| | | | | | Nodal
join:2008-08-25
West Warwick, RI | Re: Must be a slow news day The actual value is whatever someone will pay for it. | |
| | | | | | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Must be a slow news day Apparently, that's the problem. Too many people ARE NOT willing to pay and would rather steal such things. Youll never rid yourself of piracy, but you can make things within reason so that most will go out and buy. Owning an original copy is much better than a pirated one which often doesn't work fully or needs constant patching. | |
| | | | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| those two stores are good examples of how downloads should work, the store remembers what you own and even the loss of an HDD you can still go back and get the games you buy for free and not have to buy new downloads.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Must be a slow news day Exactly. Not to mention, the costs are much less or should be to the Customer and Company. They don't
A) Have to pay for the printed manuals and CDS
B) Have the costs and percentage loss associated with selling at a store.
C) Are the direct retailers and can keep track of your purchases, in case of a hardware failure. A bad CD or broken CD aren't a worry.
The only conceivable downside to downloading legally is if the company is a small one where one risks losing access to the game he / she purchased if it were to fold. | |
| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| No CD cracks i wonder if they would chase after these, since while they can be used by pirates they are also used but huge numbers of people who are lined up at the gamestop release day money in hand.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA
| Hm Isn't there already a crackdown on gaming piracy? Try to find Nintendo Entertainment System (or other "classic" gaming systems) ROMs today compared with a decade ago, many websites have closed down or gone over to BitTorrent, while in the past even mainstream gaming websites sometimes had ROMs.
Of course, none of this should imply that I have ever used a ROM illegally- it's just something I heard, I swear...  | |
| | 
sivran
God Save The Suite
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
clubs: | Re: Hm RIP, emux.com, the best emu/rom site ever to have existed. None topped it then or now.  | |
| Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state
 ·FrontierNet Intern..
·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Dish Network
edit:
August 24th, @05:11PM
| DRM-enabled games... Who these days would want to download a game fully into our hard drive and activate a CD/DVD key, just to have to insert it every time you want to play the game? Now, I use Steam and I have no problem with Steam based DRM as I like using Steam in the first place (and it's very loose on what you can do as well!), but honestly, the games I'd have to put a CD in for every time to play, it gets annoying especially if I lose the disk, and while I'd love to download a no-CD crack for something I had bought, I just don't feel like doing it for this same reason this article mentioned.
Honestly, I'd seriously wait several years until companies release No-CD patches for their own games. Most recently Bungie released a No-CD patch for both Halo: Combat Evolved and Halo: Custom Edition via the game's auto update and I'm glad they did, as it's a lot quicker and a lot more convenient than having to dig another game out of my DVD drive, put a game in, wait for it to spin up, open the game, and wait for it to read data off of the disk. Halo 2, thankfully runs entirely off of the HDD. Once registered with Microsoft, it's free to use without the CD.
By the way, isn't most video game piracy because people want to try the game out since the demos ususally suck? | |
| | hacker90
join:2005-09-01
Winnebago, IL
·Mediacom
| Re: DRM-enabled games... said by Smith6612 :By the way, isn't most video game piracy because people want to try the game out since the demos ususally suck? That in my case would be true for some games. Civ4 for eample. I downloaded it to try it back when it was released in October of 05. Got my a copy later that year for Christmas. CoH is another example of this, I just picked up the gold edition from newegg. It also has to involve the persons view on getting all the games in a pack or individual. | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| DRM requiring the CD is a major drive for pirates, its not just getting it free but there are plenty of people who pirate a copy with the legit box sitting on their desk. the pirated copy lets them run off the HDD.
however if you buy it and then download a version without the CD check its not really piracy, because you did give your money at the store.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | 
lllllLLLL
@comcast.net | Not to mention burning out the life of your cd drives laser | |
| | | Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state | Re: DRM-enabled games... You honestly don't want to know how many CD/DVD drives and players I've gone thorugh | |
| cornelius785
join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA | Do we have a new member of the MAFIA? If they take up the tactics of the current MAFIA (riaa + mpaa) we could have a new member. What next? The TV giants jumping on ship? perhaps obama+biden jumping on to the MAFIA bandwagon in a not too distant future? | |
| 
snipper_cr
join:2002-01-22
Wheaton, IL
clubs:
| CD Val I just hate having to insert a CD to have to validate the game which takes a long time anyways. If it needed the CD for game data, thats one thing but I prefer installs that puts everything on the computer for faster speed.
The music industry is starting to see that DRM is not liked and people prefer DRM-free media. Hopefully the gaming industry will follow the same road.
--
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. | |
| | Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state | Re: CD Val They are starting to follow... slightly. Bungie last week or two weeks ago released a No-CD Patch for Halo: Combat Evolved and Halo Custom Edition for the PC. No more having to insert my CD just to play the game by launching it via Steam. | |
| | | 
mrchris
No more bailouts
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | Re: CD Val After all this time? Third party crackers got to it before they did.  | |
| 
KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Pirated Games really is not the same Usually, pirated games are stripped down versions. They lack the multiplayer aspects, due to license validation, etc, they lack the documentation, story, etc and packaging. Sometimes they even lack parts of the game itself.
Unlike music or movies, I think much of the pirates software never actually gets used at all. It may be installed and looked at once or twice, or it may never be installed.
Also, I feel that when someone does copy a game, and they like it, they usually end up buying the retail version so they can play it fully or online. If they don't like it, they are either erased or burned off on some archive DVD to sit gathering dust never to be touched again.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
| |
sivran
God Save The Suite
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Pirated Games really is not the same Indeed.
I downloaded Baldur's Gate II. Burned it (all four CDs). Stuck it in my CD holder where's been ever since. Figured I'd install it once I finished the first one. Never finished it. Course, now I have a "legit" copy -- my friend gave me his copy of it.
Same deal with Majesty. Even though I could've just borrowed it, I pirated it. Never installed it. The ISO sits on my hard drive. I have played it before -- borrowed it from a friend once, but my computer at the time was quite underpowered and couldn't properly play it.
The games I've bought because of piracy are few, the games I've pirated, hated, and erased are many. Some might say, "well, download a demo!" To that, I say, "Far Cry." I would have bought it based on the demo. I downloaded the game, and discovered that the demo covered pretty much the only fun part of the game (IMO). Whew.
--
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon profitable cause... | |
| | | Nodal
join:2008-08-25
West Warwick, RI | Re: Pirated Games really is not the same Majesty is awesome. You should play it. I bought it with the Xpack and Risk 2 for 5 bucks. | |
|
anonym111
@verizon.net
| Makes no difference for me I think the RIAA already lost not won. Cause other day my friend suggested i listen to some youtube music video. I asked him, informed him, that I will not listen to any RIAA released content. I also explained the cause to the "T." I said since you already have listened to the song. You may want to let me know if the uploader to youtube. Attached what label etc it is. He did not so i did not visit the video. Cause anything RIAA is a no / no on my list. So if I refuse to listen to their stuff. Eh it is much worse that now word is spreading. I don't go I run away from anything RIAA. And it makes me feel very proud on the inside I don't support hurting anyone. 
As for games I don't play much anymore unless something of immense interest. The gaming industry needs to evolve not kill itself. Hope they made a wise choice in hiring the same people. | |
| brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL | wow The PC Gaming market is already dying. This will put the nail in the coffin. | |
| |
KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: wow Sad thing is, the best gaming platform of all is the PC.
It can do things the consoles can't because the consoles are frozen in time from the time they are released until the next one comes out. PC's can be upgraded regularly, and have the easiest online multiplayer.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
| | 
BabyBear
Keep wise ...with Night-Owl
join:2007-01-11
| said by brianiscool :The PC Gaming market is already dying. This will put the nail in the coffin. 
Yeah and the war on drugs will end illegal drug use. | |
| | james1
join:2001-02-26
antarctica
| said by brianiscool :The PC Gaming market is already dying. This will put the nail in the coffin. No, it's the HUGE companies that buy up profitable gaming companies, set an impossible timeline for the next project, 90% of the time it's too rushed to be good and flops, then they shut them down and move all the employees to their video game sweatshops. They're the ones driving nail after nail into the coffin of video games.
Too bad video games will never die.
Maybe they'll stop spending millions of dollars on ultra high poly modeling and better than real graphics and we'll see some small teams pump out some jewels with unique gameplay and stories to tell.
Maybe they'll go back to 2d isometric rpg games like Fallout. Fallout was fun. | |
| | 
CrzyCrakr
Premium
join:2005-06-24
Edgewater, MD | Amen | |
|
miscnick
@verizon.net
| I'll pirate from now on Just went down and bought Age of Conan.
50$
Can't play it, save for online.....not a single word about that on the package.
It's a 25 GIG install, a quick 100 meg update and then a 1.05 gig update....dunno if that is all at this point.
THEN it's 15$ a month just to play what you spent money on.
teh feck ?
I should have grabbed a torrent of it, it would have served the same.....NUKED!
Last game I will ever buy.
No exceptions.
Fuck You ESA. | |
| | IcyFire
Flammable Ice
join:2001-05-30
Somewhere |  Re: I'll pirate from now on
| |
|
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8
edit:
August 25th, @09:32PM
| Too bad The Worm is dead... ... because ESA could hire him as well - who rememebrs him, this utter PoS garbage scum of Earth?
Jack "The Worm" Valenti, former head of the RIAA/MPAA/etc-mob, the biggest, most disgusting parasite ever lived.
Fortunately he's dead, gone for good. (Yes, I hate him, I could throw up when I see this despicable midget life form.)
--
| |
| runlevelfour
join:2002-06-12
USA
| My thoughts For starters, PC gaming is not dying. Pundits have been saying it's dying for about a decade now. It has changed a lot and has become much more mainstream but there are still a lot of good games being developed. One just has to know where to look to find quality games. Quit buying what the advertisements and hype tell you to buy and do some homework. That leads me to my next point.
I really don't think bootlegging is all that bad. Sometimes bootlegging can do the industry a lot of good. More than a few games out there don't have demos or the demos are so limited and crippled that you cannot get a feel for the game. How many times have you bought a game, even one you played the demo and got burned? How many are fun for about an hour (conveniently the length of a demo) and then you realize how much the game sucks because it never changes? It's the same with music, back in the day you would hear a few songs from a favorite band's new album and buy it. Come to find out the good songs were played on the radio and the rest is filler. That, more than anything I think led to the rise of piracy.
I can name at least six games and three companies that have made money off of me through bootlegging. I tried their full games, came to like them and bought the software to support the developers. Coincidentally these are smaller shops with their own digital distribution system (either their own or through steam). A lot of other games don't make the cut and guess what? They get deleted off my hard drive. I think we should all get out of the mentality that people pirate only what they would pay for if they couldn't download it.
Ultimately I think that the anti-piracy efforts is a fear response. Finally the consumer has power to make better informed decisions (instead of being told via advertisements and sponsored reviews) to support or not support a digital product. And this makes the big boys worried. Their tired tactic of forcing you to buy 10% quality, 90% garbage/filler at 100% of the price is dying and they know it. This is why they are trying to use propaganda and the government to try and roll back the clock. I think it's too late. | |
| 
Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
| meh One thing is obvious, music, movies and games have a limited shelf life to some respects before they are relegated to the bargain bin. This means that the respective industries attempt to maximize their profit in the timeframe that the product in question can command the highest asking price. This explains their sense of urgency but I don’t abide their tactics.
The punishment should fit the crime and pursuing most offenders would not be cost effective. So they ask for grossly inflated out of court settlements and grossly inflated damages in court.
It will all probably get worse before it gets better. I refuse to install a game laden with DRM that will irreparably alter my system nor will I stoop to anything illegal. I’d rather play a board game or read a book then get pushed into any of the above and this is coming from someone who has played many a PC game and who loves the PC gaming experience.
I don’t judge others though and I don’t really care who downloads what as long as its not me, my kids or as long as its not going across my network.
Still, stealing is stealing and if illegal downloads are part of your life you need to re-evaluate your practices because the witch hunt has begun. | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| Re: meh what i dont understand though is why some game makers will chase down people offering ROMs for NES games. i mean the NES hardware hasnt been in stores for over 10 years now.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | | |
|
|
Two Ex-RIAA Staffers Head Up ESA
