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story category Tracking People Via Cell Phone
The good, the bad and the legal
(old news - 03:23PM Saturday Feb 09 2008)
tags: legal · business · wireless · consumers
Tipped by TK Junk Mail See Profile
An experiment completed this week by the California Center for Innovative Transportation (CCIT) has caused people some concerns about the privacy issues related to cell phone tracking. These concerns are also being reflected in court cases that involve the tracking of a suspect’s location through his or her cell phone.

The CCIT experiment is part of a project to test out methods for predicting and monitoring traffic on California’s freeways. Using GPS systems and traffic-monitoring software installed in Nokia phones, the researchers were able to monitor traffic flow. They claim that if the system began to be widely used, all identifying information would be stripped from the phones before location information was transmitted back to Nokia. However, people are concerned that this isn’t accurate and that their specific location could be tracked.

This type of tracking is exactly what’s been done through phones in a handful of court cases where criminal suspects were located by authorities through their phones using GPS and triangulation. A recent U.S. District Court holding has upheld the right of authorities to use wireless information to track suspects.

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Forums » Tracking People Via Cell Phone
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BodyBumper

join:2004-06-21
Beverly Hills, CA

I'm all for being tracked

If it means our nation is protected. If you don't do no wrong why worry about being tracked?

Work

@charter.com

Re: I'm all for being tracked

please, please please, tell me you're being facetious.
it's not that you have nothing to fear of being tracked if you're doing nothing wrong.
it's the sheer principal of the thing.
it's that if you HAVEN'T done anything wrong, why ARE they tracking you?
what happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

MrMoody
Liberal Capitalist

join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
Everyone who makes this type of statement makes the same bad assumption: that only right-intentioned law enforcement will get or use the information.
--
The public is a poor business manager.

bear73
Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies
Premium
join:2001-06-09
Grand Forks Afb, ND

Re: I'm all for being tracked

and therin lies the rub... ya never know what slime might get ahold of your info...
--
If ya gotta go, Go with a SMILE!
»www.thereligionofpeace.com/
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

You're assuming that the government has power over the people and not the other way around. Have you given up so soon?

I'm so sick and tired of the argument over "to protect our nation"... We all know dubya was 100% honest about everything he did, including his real intentions, right?

This is no different a statement than concealed gun laws... or the right to carry laws. They are all going to make us safer.. from who? Other lawful people? Criminals don't use the typical systems. If someone was a true criminal, or 'terrorist' (just say it) then they are going to use one of the thousand of pre-paid 'cash' phones they already purchased up to evade tracking.

So, care to re-think that statement?

I will NEVER, *EVER* be on the side of things being "ok because we have nothing to hide".. because no one is going to plant the ID chip in me just because they have it.

Giving up liberty is idiotic! The solution to the problem is not abusing personal liberties and freedoms.. the solution is to correct the inept people making ineffective laws in the first place, and furthermore, cutting back on the number of BS laws that create so many criminals in which feed a hungry legal system in the first place. I wonder how many cell phones, in California, helped put those 3-strike candy-bar-stealing criminals behind bars?

The moral to the story is that if you look at ANYONE hard enough, you WILL find that someone has broken some law somewhere. Still want to be tracked?
TheWickerMan

join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA

Re: I'm all for being tracked

said by fiberguy See Profile :

The moral to the story is that if you look at ANYONE hard enough, you WILL find that someone has broken some law somewhere. Still want to be tracked?
Exactly the point I've tried to make many times in the past: We're all guilty of something if you look hard enough.
jc100

join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable

Awww and I was so anxious to have more big brother. You know, this stupidity won't end until the government has complete control over our lives. George Bush has set off a dangerous precedence and as long as Americans are dumb enough to accept the "for your own good argument", it'll continue. It's a shame this country is REALLY that dumb. Then again, kiss a few babies, hate a few ethnic groups, oppose gay marriage and abortion, and Wallah you're in with the most idiotic of this country. IE. You can overshadow authoritative motives by simply redirecting the morons above to think of something else. Half this country is really that gullible. Instead of seeing what's being taken away, they're too busy tossing around their bibles trying to spread one form of ignorance, while having the rug pulled out from under them. All the while too busy on their own projects to even notice. For the rest of us, we can sit here and complain but I don't think it does much good when the other half can't see what's happening.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

Re: I'm all for being tracked

This explains the Good Ol' US of A...

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct5mSjtEbOI


This about sums up the current presidential debates going on right now.
jc100

join:2002-04-10

Re: I'm all for being tracked

Your video was removed for copyright violation. = /.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

Re: I'm all for being tracked

Oh good lord...

It wasn't my video anyway.. God forbid a 1:40 second clip be shown to anyone.

deadeye

@spcsdns.net

I'm with you about being tracked. Its nobody's business but my own. The systems that "protect" us can also bite us in the backside if misused.

As far as concealed carry...you better check the statistics. Everywhere it is legal, crime drops. Use common sense...who's purse would you rather steal? The old lady's who is brandishing her .357 or the woman without?

You are right about criminals not using the typical systems... they already carry whether you like it or not. The guy robbing the bank doesn't care if its also illegal to j-walk.

I enjoyed your post. Its nice to hear from someone who actually thinks.

N O Y B
St. John 3.16

join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast


edit:
February 9th, @05:35PM

Tell it to all the innocent people who have been convicted and imprisoned. Thankfully a few have since been exonerated and released, but even so irretrievably lost a great part of their life, and I do not mean just the years of denied freedom.

--
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX

Re: I'm all for being tracked

And who's investigating all those who were executed to ensure they were not innocent? Yep nobody checks up on dead men.

Oh and to think that the people will get up and do something about this government is impossible. They say axe medicare and social security and trust in your 401k's. If you've watched the news 5.1 trillion dollars was lost in Janurary.

So explain to me when your grandparents and parents are too old or frail to work, get kicked out of their homes because they no longer have income, and depend on you to provide medical care for them, where will you go for vacation, what shiny new piece of technology will you buy?
Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

said by BodyBumper See Profile :

If it means our nation is protected. If you don't do no wrong why worry about being tracked?
Oh come on. What a stupid position to take. This is precisely why I don't have a cell phone. It is nobody's business where I am at a given moment. It has nothing to do with whether I am doing something illegal. It has to do with privacy. I have a right to personal privacy. The government, Microsoft, Yahoo or whoever has no right to track me via a cell phone I might have. I would have a cell phone only for emergencies and what a horrible, steep price to pay to have a bit of peace of mind in the case of emergency.

Our nation protected because our privacy is totally lost? Where did you get such a harebrained idea? Privacy comes FIRST in a nation of FREE individuals. We have NOTHING if we give up privacy...we sure as hell won't have "protection".
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason

Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
Premium
join:2003-05-31
Erie, PA
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: I'm all for being tracked

quote:
I would have a cell phone only for emergencies and what a horrible, steep price to pay to have a bit of peace of mind in the case of emergency.
You seem a bit behind the times Mele.

Ever heard of a pre-paid cell phone or disposable cell phone?

Walmart carries them dirt cheap.

Here is just one example: »www.walmart.com/catalog/product.···=6051652

I would hardly call $17 or so expensive for a phone you would use in an emergency.
--
"We must look for consistency. Where there is a want of it we must suspect deception." - Sherlock Holmes
Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Re: I'm all for being tracked

I read Stephen King's Cell. No one would get a cell after reading that thriller! (He doesn't have a cell phone either. I suppose he scared himself). LOL

Prepaid still requires that you buy airtime, minutes, etc. every few months. Oh, I've looked at every cell phone provider, every plan prepaid and otherwise and they are all ripoffs. The hidden "gotchas" and everything else about cell phones is digusting. When HawTel stops having public phones then I will be forced to get a cell phone but until then unless I find a better plan than any of the myriad I have perused...well...no thank you. Besides the prepaid plans have really crappy phones that don't work decently. What good does it have to have one and then it doesn't work when you need it? Here, only Verizon is really good and they are the most expensive provider.

Then there is the battery thing. I hated cordless phones and having to charge them. I went back to a nice corded phone that never needs charging.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason

Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
Premium
join:2003-05-31
Erie, PA
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: I'm all for being tracked

The benefits of having one IMO out weight the minor costs which come no where near a two year cell phone commitment.
---------
--
"We must look for consistency. Where there is a want of it we must suspect deception." - Sherlock Holmes

cheaters exposed

@rr.com
Tracking is okay. That way you can catch cheating spouses and end it in divorce court with proof, rather than continue being victimized by slick con spouses.

MisterMarcus

join:2001-11-10
San Diego, CA
It's not a bad thing, BUT should be opt-in only. Doing this by default opens up a whole can of privacy concerns, regardless of whether you have bad intentions.

siempreseagull

@bellsouth.net
Victims of Domestic violence are also being tracked by thier abusers through cell phone use.

MrMoody
Liberal Capitalist

join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
·magicjack.com
·Embarq

Only now?

Mobile phones have had GPS in them for years and people are only now realizing they can be used to track you?

Of course it's only a matter of time until drivers licenses do the same thing.
--
The public is a poor business manager.

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

Re: Only now?

said by MrMoody See Profile :

Mobile phones have had GPS in them for years and people are only now realizing they can be used to track you?
Some Cell Phone Companies are selling this capability as a feature. For example, when you buy a Cell Phone for your children they offer the capability to track them via a web site. I think that those "Children's Phones" are trackable even when they are powered off (ie: The GPS Responder is on a separate circuit that is not affected by the On/Off switch) and the only way to cripple it is to remove the battery.

As to tracking via Cell Phone, this capability is used on Crime Shows (CSI, NCIS, etc.) all the time which should be a tip off to the public that it can be done (although you must take some of the show's usage with a grain of salt since they show things for dramatic purposes that are not actually possible yet).
birdfeedr
Premium
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS

said by MrMoody See Profile :

Mobile phones have had GPS in them for years and people are only now realizing they can be used to track you?
Hardly. It's the first time they've been the subject of such a large scale experiment.

Backing up a little to look at the larger picture...

The biggest problem that people have with all these methods of tracking, they are too "black box" with too many unknowns. The potential for abuse and misuse is enormous, particularly when there is no disclosure on just what happens behind the scenes.

Trust me, if you are going to hide, forget plastic money, cell phones, internet, car rentals, satnav, passports, and yes, your RealID-compliant drivers' license.

Time to crank up the volume on Pink Floyd's Animals.
battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
Unless people stick their phone on their dash how is the GPS going to work. It's not going to get a signal through the metal roof of your car. They can triangulate your position with multiple towers but it won't be nearly as accurate as GPS.

n1zuk
This Space Available
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Re: Only now?

I use a program called Mobile GMaps on my cell phone. You would be surprised how accurate telephone GPS is, and it works in many places standard GPS receivers won't.
--
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

said by battleop See Profile :

Unless people stick their phone on their dash how is the GPS going to work. It's not going to get a signal through the metal roof of your car. They can triangulate your position with multiple towers but it won't be nearly as accurate as GPS.
ou are kidding, right?

N O Y B
St. John 3.16

join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR

I have a cheap (less than $100) Bluetooth GPS receiver I use with computer mapping software, and it works very well in vehicle just sitting on the seat or in my shirt pocket.


TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
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Margate City, NJ
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said by battleop See Profile :

Unless people stick their phone on their dash how is the GPS going to work. It's not going to get a signal through the metal roof of your car. They can triangulate your position with multiple towers but it won't be nearly as accurate as GPS.
You are so wrong. The GPS systems work quite well within cars. My cellphone and my internet tablet work just fine from within a car.
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battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

Re: Only now?

I've had quite a few GPS devices over the years. None of them will work if they are sitting on my console which is where I put my phone. I've always had to put the receiver on the dash to get it to work worth a crap.
RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
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Re: Only now?

said by battleop See Profile :

I've had quite a few GPS devices over the years. None of them will work if they are sitting on my console which is where I put my phone. I've always had to put the receiver on the dash to get it to work worth a crap.
Sorry to disagree with you, but my Magellan Meridian Color GPS will work on the passenger seat or sitting on the console between the seats. This is on at least 12 different car types over the past two years (I travel a bit for work). Granted it probably suffers a bit in absolute accuracy, but I make my turns and get to where I routed to.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.
CalMark

join:2002-12-11
Fishers, IN

said by battleop See Profile :

"Unless people stick their phone on their dash how is the GPS going to work."----
For Sale: GPS proof cell phone skins - Get them before they are made illegal....

bent
not broken
Premium
join:2004-10-04
Longmont, CO
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..

Little razor blade to the RFID chip oughta do it... Or will they then issue a warrant for me for the crime of "tampering with an official identification document" because I've become untraceable by that means?

"PAPERS PLEASE!"
--
»www.lp.org/issues/family-budget.shtml

"That government is best which governs least" - Thoreau

jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ

Turn off you phone.

How simple is that.

MrMoody
Liberal Capitalist

join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC

Re: Turn off you phone.

Ha, most people can't even get off their phone.
--
The public is a poor business manager.

PunkGod

join:2003-02-02

said by jjoshua See Profile :

How simple is that.
It was proven that just turning your cell phone off won't do it. You have to remove the battery.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Try finding a payphone nowadays. Soon one day you will be continously monitored, since can you live without a car in most of america now (car tracking)? Can you live without public transportation/face finger printing/entering urabn areas? Can you live without a cellphone when there are no payphone around? Can you live when your employer demands you carry your own cellphone?

The only way to get out of this is to go Survivorman for the rest of your life. Welcome to your new Overloads.
threetrolls

join:2003-04-19
Bellevue, WA

hmmm...

The students in the experiment gave their consent to be tracked but will you have the same option? Will this be an unconfigurable 'feature'? If the data is encrypted and stripped of personal information BEFORE it leaves the phone AND users have the option to opt out of the monitoring (at the phone level) and can control when the monitoring is done, then it is a clever idea.

On the other hand, couldn't cities gather traffic information by monitoring the load on the cell towers next to the highways instead of through the phones reporting in? The information wouldn't be as precise but with statistical analysis I think it could still be useful - and without the privacy concerns.

I agree with birdfeedr See Profile
The potential for abuse and misuse is enormous.

N O Y B
St. John 3.16

join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast

Traffic Cams & Road Sensors

They do not need GPS cell phones for monitoring traffic, they already have traffic cams and road sensors.

The GPS is going to have to be extremely accurate in order to discern when 4 cell phones are not 4 vehicles.

--
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AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß

This has been done for years

In fact I wrote the software the the US Gov't uses and has used to track people via cell towers.

The program is unofficially called Trakker and can be used in real time based on cell site triangulation with allowances for delay to relay.
It was used to track the people that kidnapped and killed Sidney Reso (his bodyguard and the bodyguards wife -Arthur and Irene Seale)

FiL
Premium
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD

Re: This has been done for years

good for you... i like a person that'll do anything for a paycheck.
gudel
System Lord

join:2004-06-03
Santa Barbara, CA

dont like it, dont use it

I never bring my cell phone.
Problem solved.

Nightshade
sic semper tyrannis
Premium
join:2002-05-26
Salem, OR

Re: dont like it, dont use it

Or better yet don't buy one in the first place. :P

I never had a use for a cell phone and more likely I never will.
--
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MTU
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Santa Maria, CA
·AT&T Yahoo

Tracking

Great subject. Used GPS tracking years ago as PD Inv. If we stuck a magnetic gps-tracker unit on a veh. exterior (behind plastic bumper facade) no search-warrant was needed. We just had to retrieve the unit for download of GPS data. Later, a combo GPS and cellphone was used that would cellphone us the GPS coordinates realtime. Again no search warrant w/ ext. mount.

Now, anyone, incl. creeps of all types can buy/make similar trackers.

See: »cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi···10167561

The cellular/GPS loc. data collection numbers are being accelerated by the profit of gathering & selling 'customer data' to commercial interests (to be pooled with consumer buying info), AND selling to the government entities who've been forced into to buying data from the private sector by the current administration.

There is big money in this private-arena free-for-all.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Re: Tracking

Hmmm, maybe I should start a demographics/research company, secretly put these on cars, and have an army of cars that are tracked with nobody knowing. Then sell the data to advertisers.
dentman42

join:2001-10-02
Columbus, OH
·AT&T Midwest

Re: Tracking

said by patcat88 See Profile :

Hmmm, maybe I should start a demographics/research company, secretly put these on cars, and have an army of cars that are tracked with nobody knowing. Then sell the data to advertisers.
So YOU'RE the one that put that @%$!ing thing under my bumper!

Then again, this could make my "weekly bumper change" business very profitable...
RattMann
Premium
join:2002-09-24
Los Angeles, CA

Will you be tracked for no reason?

This is a great topic. Technology is our enemy again! Woo Hoo. Big Brother is back again and BIGGER than EVER !!! How about coming back down to earth?
I am always amazed when a perp is caught and brought to justice. Why? Because there are so many people, so few police and such limited budgets for them. I read recently that programs that monitor child molesters could not accurately track all of them because of lack of personnel due to lack of money.
In addition law enforcement agencies at all levels don't always "share" information with others due to rivalries, jealousy or ego trouble. The local law enforcement agencies don't like the feds, and the FBI doesn't like the CIA, who doesn't like the NSA who doesn't like any of them. Antiquated procedures, ancient computer networks and inadequate budgets constrain all of them. I mean no insult to any of these organizations, but do you folks really fear any of them? And speaking of egos, why do any of you think you are important enough to be tracked???
benc
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Re: Will you be tracked for no reason?

said by RattMann See Profile :

And speaking of egos, why do any of you think you are important enough to be tracked???
I think the issue here is the principle. The fact that someone unscrupulous in law enforcement could decide to track you.

Also, you might be right about the average person not being "important enough." But, what if you aren't "average?" What if you have beliefs and opinions that aren't "expected" or are "unpopular?" What if you are different in a way from most people, whether on the surface or underneath?

Suppose, because of that, they assume you might do something wrong, and they decide to track you? I doubt it'll be to the point that they know exactly what you do at home, or when exactly you eat dinner or use the restroom. But they could determine when you're likely to be home.

I don't know about most people, but I figure that it's no one's business where I happen to be at any given time, unless I choose to make it their business (i.e. "Honey, I'm going to the mall."). This is the kind of thing you'd expect small children to be exposed to, not adults.

bent
not broken
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said by RattMann See Profile :

This is a great topic. Technology is our enemy again! Woo Hoo. Big Brother is back again and BIGGER than EVER !!! How about coming back down to earth?
I am always amazed when a perp is caught and brought to justice. Why? Because there are so many people, so few police and such limited budgets for them.
Then maybe we should repeal some of the oh-so-profitable victimless crime laws that keep cops off of the real criminals?

Who would you rather the cops be chasing? The guy down the street that has a couple pot plants in his basement and faces asset seizure (big bucks for the State) or the ever-feared molester that's buggering your kids and will cost the system money and never put a dime back in?

Come to think of it, aren't all monetary fines inherently unjust? A $1000 fine means a whole hell of a lot more to the guy that makes $8/hr than it does to the guy that makes $50 an hour.
--
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RangerTX
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA

Say hello to Nokio 5190

I still have old nokio 5190 that works. It don't have gps unit in it. So how is government going to track me?
--
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TK Junk Mail
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Margate City, NJ
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Re: Say hello to Nokio 5190

said by RangerTX See Profile :

I still have old nokio 5190 that works. It don't have gps unit in it. So how is government going to track me?
You can also track cellphones thru triangulation from 3 cell towers. This is usually good enough to place you within a couple blocks in the city and a mile or so in the suburbs.
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srr2

join:2001-12-20
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Re: Say hello to Nokio 5190

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

You can also track cellphones thru triangulation from 3 cell towers. This is usually good enough to place you within a couple blocks in the city and a mile or so in the suburbs.
I'm a t-mobile customer. I feel lucky if there is ONE tower my phone reaches! Guess I'm safe, huh?

hayabusa3303
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Re: Say hello to Nokio 5190

said by srr2 See Profile :

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

You can also track cellphones thru triangulation from 3 cell towers. This is usually good enough to place you within a couple blocks in the city and a mile or so in the suburbs.
I'm a t-mobile customer. I feel lucky if there is ONE tower my phone reaches! Guess I'm safe, huh?
No they can get a General idea of where you are at. 3 towers can pin point you.
geoffinak3
Premium
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Big Lake, AK
·StarBand Communica..

Because in the next year all those old phones will not work anymore, they all have to be replaced to digital and ones that contain a chip that works with the" new current system". A friend has one that she has used for many years and the plan is ending because the Nokio 5190 will not work with the new systems. Coming to a cell call near you soon, your taggged.

It's a matter of privacy. Your new Passports will also be trackable.
Geoff

Steimes
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Pick up a few face plates for it at the mall!
benc
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No Mobile Phone

It's because of this fear, that when my mobile contract expires I'm going to experiment with living without a mobile phone for a month or two, and see how I like it. I'm inclined to think that I can do it again, since I've done it before. If I can't stand it, I'll get another one.

This isn't because I like to do things that are wrong, since I don't. But is it really anyone's business where I happen to be at any given time?

At least that information can't be tracked accurately through landline services, such as phone lines, the Internet, or payment methods.
rayeger

join:2003-07-05
Warren, OH

Amazing

This article talked about showing the motion of cell phones while in vehicles to track and predict traffic paterns to help aleviate congestion. And everyone jumps on here talking about how thier rights have been violated. I have driven in Los Angeles, traffic is a nightmare, anything that could help that mess is an improvement.

Grow up people, they are not tracking individuals, they are tracking cell phones that are in motion.
donjuan2002

join:2002-10-06
Kearny, NJ

Re: Amazing

In ny and nj is call EZPASS, THEY CAN TRACK U WITH THAT.

NJxxxJon
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Re: Amazing

said by donjuan2002