 
knightmb
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN | DRM = Digital Restrictions Management I know how every talks about digital rights, but it's not rights, it's restrictions. Anything that has to do with DRM I will always steer clear of. Can we say MythTV  | |
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 | voyager6868
join:2003-01-29
Waterloo, ON | Re: DRM = Digital Restrictions Management TIVO is a very poor product if a bit of "signal noise" can cause it to do bizarre things like this. Anyone who has one, should be boycotting the company until they come clean. | |
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reub2000
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Evanston, IL | Got a machine with 2 Haupauge WinTV PVR-250s, gentoo and mythtv. Love it. Only wish I could figure out DVI output. | |
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| | Skyrunner8
join:2002-01-10
Goleta, CA | Re: DRM = Digital Restrictions Management Got my Hauppage PVR500 Fedora Core 3 and Mythtv. Ahhh the wonders of dual tuner cards
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-Jeff | |
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b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
edit:
September 15th, @01:00PM
| I'll stick with my series 1 Tivo and its v 3.0 firmware... | |
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glmclell
join:2000-10-17
Northwest MI
clubs: | Re: I'll stick with my series 1 Tivo yessir! | |
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TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL | Series 2 and latter get screwed but series 1 is good? | |
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| | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
 ·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: I'll stick with my series 1 Tivo Apparently so. My firmware is v3.0 still.
I do not get the popup ads when I fast forward through commercials.
I do get some spam in the for of commercials that the Tivo records but I just do not watch them.
Just goes to show you newer does not always equal better. | |
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SSX4life
Premium
join:2004-02-13
>_ lolz
| DRM is bogus I personally hate all forms of DRM, and looking at how industry led officals seem to throw money at policy holders and lawmakers to get their way while the standard user suffers because of it. Can someone please tell me why the hell they are making a big deal at locking down content so f*cking much? It seems like everything and their little opinion and idea is becoming copyright, where are the days and the ages where everyone shared, had personal opinions and were vocal on them? What happened to "the customer always comes first" or "the customer is always right". I feel like we have been pushed to the back corner by money grabing, obnoxious, and pushy lawmakers and coperations. Look at the DRM that is now HARDWARE BASED on Intel Pentium D processors (I hope they sink into a pool of their own filth), or now Tivo's etc. etc. etc.
My PERSONAL property is simply that... personal. And if something is broadcast over PUBLIC airwaves who in ther right f*cking mind would go out of their way to block their content, that is like having a DRM flag for the radio saying you can't repeat what was said or listen to it on a cassette tape! I'm simply pointing out the fact that copyright protection is going in the wrong direction and if we don't do something soon to stop this (not like we can in some ways) then we are going to just have to shell money every time we want to turn on the TV or watch a movie.
--SSX--
--
Hit me up on IM!
AIM - SSX4life
SKYPE - SSX4life
I hate my .edu's internet proxy... /me stabs proxy server
Anyway hit me up on skype guys! =) I'll be happy to talk pc's or anime, games, etc... anything tech related! | |
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Goober
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL | Re: DRM is bogus I'm hoping replayTVm doesn't follow with this nonsense. Regardless, though, I'm getting to the point where the internet and my Xbox is starting to become a great supplement to my two ReplayTVs. | |
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| | cwoody222
join:2005-05-24
| Re: DRM is bogus Hate to burst your bubble but ReplayTV has supported the same Macrovision DRM for over a year.
They're just not seeing the 'false positives' TiVo is... which is probably blind dumb luck since ReplayTV hasn't updated their software in going on two years...
(I have both a TiVo and a ReplayTV) | |
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Goober
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
·WOW Internet and C..
·Comcast
| Re: DRM is bogus said by cwoody222  :Hate to burst your bubble but ReplayTV has supported the same Macrovision DRM for over a year. They're just not seeing the 'false positives' TiVo is... which is probably blind dumb luck since ReplayTV hasn't updated their software in going on two years... (I have both a TiVo and a ReplayTV) Yeah, now that you mention it, I remember reading about it over at avforum. | |
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lml2000
Whazzup
join:2000-08-17
Los Angeles, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: DRM is bogus Believe only Replay series beginning with 3000 series has Macrovision DRM. I have an upgraded 2000 series & I'm 100 percent certain there is no Macrovision encryption capability that can "manage" any content recorded on my drive . . . including PPV. It's one reason why I've stuck with the machine . . . & an example of why I went with Replay v. TiVo back in 2000 when I bought the 2000 series. I can skip over commercials; I don't pay a monthly fee (paid for lifetime service @ time of purchase); I have no one collecting data on my viewing habits; & I don't have involuntary software upgrades that increasingly impinge upon my domain over recorded content.
Will keep as backup once I move to an MPREG4 HD-DVR from DirecTV in 1Q2006. IMHO, TiVo has NEVER been about "TV the way u want it." It's been about survival of a questionable business model. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| said by cwoody222 :'false positives' False positive my arse. What are the odds a random signal error matches a digital signal perfectly. Probably non. Its a cover up, they might have even been testing their ability to delete shows. | |
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| | | 
X-static
@bellsouth.net
| >Hate to burst your bubble but ReplayTV has supported the
>same Macrovision DRM for over a year.
>They're just not seeing the 'false positives' TiVo is...
>which is probably blind dumb luck since ReplayTV hasn't
>updated their software in going on two years...
>(I have both a TiVo and a ReplayTV)
As do I (well several actually) and recording from a DVD always tags the content with a flag on the TiVo (or sometimes it simply refuses to record).
On my Replay 5040 I can record a DVD without consequence. | |
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| jytr
join:2005-02-03
Cliffwood, NJ
| This also implies that certain shows and segments supplied by our news media can also impose these restrictions.
There will be a day, in a few years, where there will be no free TV. To view, you'll have to buy a little box. If your box records, it'll have the recording restrictions and limits. You will always rent what you see. Pay per view and on demand TV.
This will also apply to radio.
Peace. | |
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JPGrimmace
join:2003-09-16
Pontiac, MI
| Same Thing Here Just this past Sunday, I was attempting to tape The Simpsons and The Family Guy (Giggiddy-Giggiddy-Goo) and had constant DRM issues exactly as mentioned here. There was a difference though in that I was using my ATI Radeon All-In-Wonder 8500 on my Windows PC, not a Tivo. I was pretty pissed to be prompted that the programs were view only though. Even the portions that did record were repeated frames with V-Sync problems. Very coincidental that I tried only these shows.
I had recently updated my ATI Multimedia Center and video drivers so I figured that the new version (9.08, which is newer than 9.10 somehow) had new DRM features. I uninstalled that crap as quickly as I could. | |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Netcong, NJ
| Re: Same Thing Here said by JPGrimmace :Just this past Sunday, I was attempting to tape The Simpsons and The Family Guy (Giggiddy-Giggiddy-Goo) and had constant DRM issues exactly as mentioned here. There was a difference though in that I was using my ATI Radeon All-In-Wonder 8500 on my Windows PC, not a Tivo. Hmmm, so the tuner card itself was picking something up in the VBI that set some "rules"? That's interesting, and may spell trouble for MythTV users perhaps. What if all tuner cards put restrictions on what content they will shoot down the PCI bus?  | |
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| | JPGrimmace
join:2003-09-16
Pontiac, MI
| Re: Same Thing Here The thing is, I was sure that the DRM was only active because of the new ATI Multimedia Center software I had updated just days before the new season of the Family Guy started (This past Sunday). I've never had another television show trigger a broadcast flag before, so I'd be surprised if it was the video card.
Then again, the only shows that I'd tried to record with that new ATI MMC was The Family Guy and the Simpsons, the same programs that this article refers to, so we could still be screwed. I'll know more when I start recording next Sundway with the old ATI MMC software back on my PC. | |
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nizbit
Learn to Swim
Premium
join:2003-09-20
Grainy
| MPAA and RIAA don't want you to have Tivo The more I read about Tivo the less I want to purchase one. I'm starting to think to build my own PVR, but MediaCenter has its own DRM. Oh wait it's called "Play for Sure". Its only a matter of time before Beyond TV is labeled as "pirate tools" and shutdown.
--
Hey, I don't believe that any system is totally secure|This is Unix, I know this stuff!|Knuckle deep inside the borderline.This may hurt a little but it's something you'll get used to. Relax. Slip away. | |
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Uknow-it
@67.98.x.x
 from:
rec9140
| Re: does anybody know what time it is? I use MythTV. Frankly it ROCKS!!!
I highly recommend knoppmyth (Knoppix distro dedicated to MythTV) or MythDora (Fedora distro dedicated to MythTV, not tried)
Myth is:
Music Player -mp3 and ogg
Video Player - dixv, xvid, mpg4, VOB, much more...
DVD/CD Player/Ripper -
Picture Viewer -
Video Phone -
News/Weather/Web viewer -
Game Emulator - SNES, NES, and more
DVR - HD compatible, advanced program guide, no DRM, add tuners to make it record multiple programs at once, pause live TV.
Web Interface - Schedule, manage recordings, listen to media, and more.
Add as much hard disk space as you want 200GB, 400GB...
Can use Network shares
You do want to have a little tech "know how" to use all the features and may want to brush up on Linux. But community is very helpful and many plugins being developed
»www.mysettopbox.tv
»www.mythtv.org/modules.php?name=MythFeatures
»g-ding.tv/?q=MythDoraV1.5 | |
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AtomicZero
join:2004-11-24
West Palm Beach, FL
·Comcast
| Re: What's the point? said by Chris 313 :What's the point of having a Tivo or any type of DVR if you can't keep something you recorded for as long as YOU want to? GOOD QUESTION | |
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| | kpatz
Premium
join:2003-06-13
Manchester, NH
| Re: What's the point? What I don't get is... Tivo gets its revenue from its subscribers. So wouldn't it be in their best interest to cater to their wants/needs and not the media companies?
And what's the point of forcing a delete date on a recorded show, besides to put more restrictions on paying subscribers? They should lower their fees if they're going to impose that sort of crap.
If I decide to go the DVR route in the future, I'll be going the MythTV route. I should be controlling the DVR, not the DVR provider or media companies.
--
SMTP: Spam and Malware Transfer Protocol. Also used on rare occasion to transmit e-mail messages. | |
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| | |
Unregistered user
| Re: What's the point? Tivo wants to get cozy with the big cable companies so they'll use it as their preferred DVR. To that end, they'll do whatever it takes to appease them, including crap like this. | |
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| | | | cwoody222
join:2005-05-24 | Re: What's the point? Cable companies have the same thing to lose that TiVo does since they also sell their own DVRs and service.
This is coming from Macrovision, in turn, who is getting pressure from copyright holders (ie: studios).
Not the cable cos. | |
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| | | | | barky
Premium
join:2001-03-17
San Diego, CA
|  Re: What's the point?
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| | | ihaddsl
join:2001-12-05
/dev/hda0
·Comcast
| Blame Macrovision, not Tivo Tivo has done this because they have to, in order to keep to ability to record PPV and other premium items that are protected using Macrovision.
Macrovision has changed it's terms stating that items protected by macrovision cannot be kept except under the rules layed out by the content provider
for Tivo, this means they either
1) Allow DRM for Macrovision encoded shows
2) Lose the ability to record Macrovision shows
The wider DRM we've seen is indeed a bug in the content protection detection logic, which should have never got out the door, but it's a different issue to why Tivo was forced to include such a DRM scheme
»arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20···307.html | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| any bets on how long until someone makes a filter that blocks the broadcast flag? they did it for VCRs when some tapes got macrovision you could order filters from magzines and even radioshack.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| Why is anyone suprised? Hmm.. This is turning out exactly as we all knew it would. Sure, you had the **AA fans saying 'it's only to protect the content', and the Law and Order fans saying 'it's stealing', and of course my favorite, the commercial skippers who are 'thieves for skipping commercials'. But in the end all these media companies are afraid of exactly the same thing. They are terrified of loosing control. As I've stated in many earlier posts, this is a control issue, not a money issue. The big corporations despise the PC that is powerful enough to record shows on your terms. They despise the concept of linux, where you can do what you want. They want all PC's to be x-box style consoles. They want the ability to remotely kill your device if you change it, or use it in an unauthorized way. They want to be sure that you only here their side of the political debate, so they can control the votes. They want well behaved 'consumers', not thinking customers. If Karl Marx had seen television, his famous phrase would have been modified to read 'TV is the opiate of the masses'.
Spin doctors aside, tivo added the functionality for a purpose, and that's to control the sheep. Hell, even the comcast DVR's don't let you transfer certain shows out the firewire. It's all about control.
Don't get me wrong. I won't stop watching TV. There's some shows I like. I just choose to watch them on my terms. As the courts ruled, once the broadcast enters your house, they loose ANY RIGHTS over what you do with it. PERIOD. (read the court decision on the broadcast flag). The solution of course, is to run linux, and buy your stuff from overseas. Any protection they add will be simple to bypass. Yes, you will be an 'outlaw', but at least you won't be a sheep.
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Grand Poobah | |
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Whitegnome
Premium
join:2002-12-28
Loveland, CO | Sad This (DRM) is doing nothing but hurting the legit Tivo users. Sad when it's easier and hassle free to go download the TV show from the net. | |
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pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
clubs:
·Comcast
| TiVo.. yet another good reason to use generic, DRM free dvr solutions..
so what if you have to hunt for the program you want to record.. it's not the end of the world, At leqast you'll be in control unlike a limited TiVo device which is (now) controling you.
--
Webmaster Steve
- - - - - - - - - - - -
»ppnhosting.com
»sphenterprizes.com
»pokemonpalace.net | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Re: TiVo.. Exactly...if the spamming and banner ads weren't enough...this is just one more reason to drop that crap TiVo.
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My gun has killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| TV Your Way...if you happen to be Fox Boy I'm not missing cancelling my TiVo service. After years of great service they took the 30% increase then started the system message spamming and banner ads...then the animated gif style ads during programs...
Now this.
TiVo sucks royal.
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My gun has killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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kpatz
Premium
join:2003-06-13
Manchester, NH
| Sometimes old technology is better... If this is what DVR technology is moving toward, maybe it's time to dig out our old, tried & true, always records when you tell it to, doesn't erase things without your permission, always lets you skip commercials, and doesn't spam you, VCR.
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SMTP: Spam and Malware Transfer Protocol. Also used on rare occasion to transmit e-mail messages. | |
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| 
jstep73
join:2004-02-28
Rock Island, IL
edit:
September 15th, @03:04PM
| Re: Sometimes old technology is better... Couldn't you just hook up a dvd recorder to your t.v. and record these shows? If the powers that be are worried about illegal distribution I would consider an actual hard copy more damaging(not to mention, easier to edit and duplicate) versus a recorded program that you need a hacked tivo to convert it onto a dvd(speaking in terms of a directivo). | |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Netcong, NJ
| Re: Sometimes old technology is better... said by jstep73 :Couldn't you just hook up a dvd recorder to your t.v. and record these shows? I would imagine that in the future, DVD recorders will not record "unauthorized" content. | |
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BillTager
join:2000-09-20
Charlotte, NC | Re: Sometimes old technology is better... I believe most stand alone DVD recorders already refuse to record certain flagged shows.
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Formerly DSLWho | |
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Jonbo298
join:2004-01-12
Council Bluffs, IA | What about Cable Company DVR Boxes As far as I'm aware, cable companies havent done restrictions like this yet...but are they next since DVR boxes for cable are becoming a very hot thing after what people see Tivo is doing | |
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| subman87
Another day in the Brentwood
join:2000-11-24
Harrison, NY | Re: What about Cable Company DVR Boxes One wonders if Fios TV will apply restrictions like this. | |
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Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
| TiVo is dying TiVo is dying, losing to the cable customers and the satellite providers (DirecTV is now pushing their in-house developed DVR). They need $$$$. First they started injecting ads when users fast-forwarded. You don't think they got paid big bucks to do that ?? Now they implementing DRM. I'm sure a nice check came with that too. | |
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| cwoody222
join:2005-05-24
| Re: TiVo is dying Actually no, I don't think TiVo got paid "big bucks" to inject ads. Because I've yet to see a SINGLE IMPLIMENTAION of these ads. TiVo's TRYING to sell these ads. They ain't doing a great job.
Have you used a TiVo? You'd notice the fear of these ads much outweigh the actual occurrance. | |
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Pictor Guy
join:2004-06-21
Ashburn, VA
| Blame TiVo? I don't think TiVo is to blame here. TiVo isn't the one fighting for flags and forcing DRM on the consumers. They have nothing to gain from it. And it could cost them some customers. So why would they want it? People need to think a little. It might be TiVo right now but it won't stop there. You might need to pull out your OLD VCR's if you want to copy shows in the future. | |
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pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Blame TiVo? said by Pictor Guy :I don't think TiVo is to blame here. TiVo isn't the one fighting for flags and forcing DRM on the consumers. They have nothing to gain from it. And it could cost them some customers. So why would they want it? People need to think a little. It might be TiVo right now but it won't stop there. You might need to pull out your OLD VCR's if you want to copy shows in the future. If thet didn't put this DRM crap in their units in the first place then your argument might hold water.. but since they did, your comment is sinking.. Fast!
--
Webmaster Steve
- - - - - - - - - - - -
»ppnhosting.com
»sphenterprizes.com
»pokemonpalace.net | |
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qdemn7
Smurf in My Loop
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Fort Worth, TX
| Re: Blame TiVo? said by pokesph :said by Pictor Guy :I don't think TiVo is to blame here. TiVo isn't the one fighting for flags and forcing DRM on the consumers. They have nothing to gain from it. And it could cost them some customers. So why would they want it? People need to think a little. It might be TiVo right now but it won't stop there. You might need to pull out your OLD VCR's if you want to copy shows in the future. If they didn't put this DRM crap in their units in the first place then your argument might hold water.. but since they did, your comment is sinking.. Fast! I imagine, they were "forced" to. That is, they were told; "Put DRM flag capability in your equipment, or WE will sue you."
One of those "We made them an offer they couldn't refuse" type arguments.
--
"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. - Robert A. Heinlein" | |
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Varlik
Without Honor You Will Never Be Free
Premium
join:2002-01-06
Anderson, SC
·Charter Pipeline
| So they producers can decide not to let us copy? So they producers can decide not to let us copy or burn to DVD or a PC hard drive? This is just plain stupid I will not support any show that does this. And will go out of my way to discourage other fans and folks from continuing to follow it.
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"Sir SIR! We don't use DHCP servers. We only use IBM & Microsoft servers." From there my call to tech support went steadily downhill. | |
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JoeOnSunset
Doublethink Is Doubleplus Ungood.
Premium
join:2002-11-25
Ormond Beach, FL | Re: So they producers can decide not to let us copy? This was fun for me because I'd had two Tivo service subscriptions active for awhile that I'd been meaning to cancel but never got around to. I got to call today to cancel and say that the DRM retrictions are the reason. | |
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| compton
join:2002-02-08
Brooklyn, NY
| said by Varlik :So they producers can decide not to let us copy or burn to DVD or a PC hard drive? This is just plain stupid I will not support any show that does this. And will go out of my way to discourage other fans and folks from continuing to follow it. Hollywood, MPAA and the RIAA is pushing this. In the next 5 years most content will have some form of DRM protection. The future is here. | |
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jehu
beansnfrank
Premium
join:2002-09-13
MA | Bigger Plot Maybe this is a plot to sell more component DVD Burners... Burn your TiVo recorded shows before the DRM kicks in 
--
A new drink for the old drunk | |
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| kpatz
Premium
join:2003-06-13
Manchester, NH
| Re: Bigger Plot But you know what'll happen, the Tivo will output the same Macrovision signal that causes your DVD burner to refuse to record. Guess it's time to violate the DMCA again. Oh what the hey, it's a bad law anyway.
--
SMTP: Spam and Malware Transfer Protocol. Also used on rare occasion to transmit e-mail messages. | |
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cwoody222
join:2005-05-24
| 'many' users?! This site's description said "many Tivo users".
I've so far found ONE user which started hysteria on blogs, gaget sites, ZDNet, etc.
And, coincidentally, a user in this thread said he had the same problem.
Where are these 'many' users that were affected by this BUG?! | |
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| john262
join:2003-09-26
Elko, NV
edit:
September 15th, @06:15PM
| Re: Bye Bye TiVo Most of the junk available on television these days isn't worth either watching or recording, so if DRM issues get in the way of recording some network programming, in my book it's no great loss in the first place. | |
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| | 
Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
| Re: Bye Bye TiVo I know it would be a hassle but you can get super VHS machines for around a $100 bucks. Record first to it then to your DVR this would work well for regular broadcast TV, but it would suck for HDTV. The analog loop would, of course, strip out all of the macro-crap. It is irritating to think these MPAA a$$wipes are making electronic devices purchased with hard earned cash instant junk.
--
Low voltage Tech's are wimps, Real tech's use 45 pound filament transformers, plate voltages no less then 2400 volts with at least 10 amp's lighting 8877 triodes...BPL I'm coming to get you. | |
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| | | Big Dawg 23
join:2002-03-27
Northfield, MN
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Bye Bye TiVo It seems to me that this day in age all TIVO or any DVR company would need to configure is a software that disables the features like export or save to anything else. Label the program as View only. Software can be written to do just about anything it just how much money do you want to spend. Since Tivo lost Directv and needs to wait for Comcast to change over, the income there has to be low. | |
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Tivo & DRM
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Bye Bye TiVo
