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story category The Metered Billing Fight Is About To Get Ugly
Think tanks, astroturfers and policy flaks fire up unreality engines....
01:41PM Friday Jun 19 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: legal · prices · Video · competition · business · Op/Ed · legislation · Politics · content · consumers
Tipped by Dampier See Profile
A new bill aimed at derailing unreasonable efforts at per-byte broadband billing faces a steep uphill climb in DC, where AT&T, Verizon and Comcast lobbyists usually get what they want -- particularly if they're working together. Time Warner Cable's effort to hoist low caps and metered billing upon consumers was a sloppy affair, and the public backlash created a unique instance where genuine consumer activism changed the course of a giant corporation.

But that victory was against one company who made a significant number of missteps. With the threat of regulation, the alarm bells have sounded at every giant ISP eager to ditch flat-rate pricing and experiment with billing by the byte. As such, you can expect the gloves to come off and the rhetoric to heat up. How hot? Think of the obnoxious rhetoric surrounding the network neutrality debate circa 2006, and triple it.

This next push for metered billing will be a multi-million dollar effort, utilizing the full arsenal of incumbent public policy relations. That of course means heavy use of lobbyists, paid PR flaks, pseudo-scientific think tanks and even artificial consumer advocacy groups. Collectively, they'll spend the next year or two trying to convince the public and daft lawmakers that metered billing is patriotic, good for children and puppies, and results in vast oceans of innovation pouring out wistfully upon a dreamy sea of competitive innovation.

As Phillip Dampier of Stop The Cap notes, the push began in earnest this week, with a flood of astroturfers and paid policy goofs flooding Internet message boards with the gospel of their handlers. PR departments fired up their engines as well, AT&T insisting to us that their metered billing trials in Reno and Beaumont, Texas are really about making sure that "grandma" gets a fair shake. The American Cable Association's feigned empathy was equally noxious in a statement pretending metered billing is about giving users "control:"
"Consumption-based billing plans will give consumers the ultimate control over how much they spend each month for their Internet access. Rep. Massa's bill would have a chilling effect on broadband operators offering these types of consumer-friendly options. Internet usage payment models will allow broadband providers to better manage their networks by imposing higher costs on the heaviest users who often are the ones responsible for slowing speeds for all users on the Internet."
Of course killing flat-rate pricing gives control -- to carriers worried about an uncertain future. The push for metered billing comes from investors who are interested in charging more money for the same service at a time when broadband delivery costs are dropping. The push comes from executives who are interested in protecting TV revenues from Internet video by nickel and diming the households of tomorrow with overage fees as high as 2,000% over cost. That truth doesn't sell, so it has to be dressed up under the guise of helping grandma.

However well intentioned, regulation limiting pricing models is never going to get past incumbent lobbyists and a well-lobbied Congress. If government is going to get involved, they're better served by taking actions that foster competition. As we've seen with Cablevision and Verizon's reluctance to impose caps or meters, and Time Warner's reluctance to trial meters in FiOS markets, competition is kind of like DEET for dumb, self-serving telecom ideas. The threat of customer defection will keep carriers on their best behavior.

Related:
  1. Tuesday Evening Links
  2. Time Warner Cable: Let's Not Talk About Net Neutrality
  3. Is Verizon Considering Metered Billing?
  4. Real Consumer Group Takes Aim At Fake Ones
  5. Comcast Can Officially Get Even More Gigantic
  6. What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
  7. Cable Industry: Shucks, Guess Nobody Wants CableCARDs
  8. AT&T: Google Is The Enemy Of Nuns
Forums » The Metered Billing Fight Is About To Get Ugly
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S_engineer

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2 edits

Liars

If Att wanted to give "grandma" her fair shake, then they'd lower the prices for the measly 50MB of usage that "grandma" uses per month.

This is about setting the precedent of a low cap before even more Video is introduced to the Web. This is a money grab, plain and simple!
I think it's high time congress dragged these clowns to the hill and interogated them on where all of the money for upgrades through tax incentives has gone. They did it to AIG, and GM, they should now do it to TW, and the Death Star. Remember the 40 mbps to the home in 10 from the Clinton years.
If they don't like the idea of a PUC regulating them then hit them with this. They redefine a cap as cost since it has obvious pricing implications, with the regulating body being split with the FCC and IRS. Wouldn't that be a fun audit!
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digitalfreak

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Re: Liars

We need caps to avoid the Internet Apocalypse! The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

Matt
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Re: Liars

said by digitalfreak See Profile :

We need caps to avoid the Internet Apocalypse! The sky is falling, the sky is falling!
Don't worry, AT&T and Time Warner et al will happily sell you their Apocalypse add-on package for the ultra low price of $9.99 a month.
Kearnstd
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Re: Liars

said by Matt See Profile :

said by digitalfreak See Profile :

We need caps to avoid the Internet Apocalypse! The sky is falling, the sky is falling!
Don't worry, AT&T and Time Warner et al will happily sell you their Apocalypse add-on package for the ultra low price of $9.99 a month.
but also dont forget AT&T is the telephone company so they will have a 10.99 Apocalypse Processing fee and a 159.99 early termination fee with really small print stating(ETF may still be charged if Internet explodes causing unexpected end of service).
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en102
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1 edit

Re: Liars

Yup - that $9.99 /month fee requires:

TV service/phone service and...
- $200 installation fee
- the modern day equivalent of a local loop charge
- requlatory surcharge fee (cost of doing business with government)
- regulatory revovery fee (cost of meeting government requirements)
- profit recovery fee (fee charged if company isn't making enough profit off of you, or in general)
- modem rental fee
- demark fee
- electrical usage fee (gotta power those VRAD/RT/fiber nodes)
- battery replacement fee (gotta replace those batteries in the exploding VRADS)

uncleFester

@rr.com

said by Kearnstd See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

but also dont forget AT&T is the telephone company so they will have a 10.99 Apocalypse Processing fee and a 159.99 early termination fee with really small print stating(ETF may still be charged if Internet explodes causing unexpected end of service).
.. i'm really curious how 'early termination fee' and 'apocalypse' kinda jive with application of said fees (or just HOW would one get a refund?)

backness

join:2005-07-08
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Re: Liars

They'll just take it as a deposit

Dzot
Huh? What?

join:2001-01-21
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I thought it was for each PC connected...
me1212

join:2008-11-20
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Yeah, lets take tw's or att's $40(or closest in price) package. If right now I were to pay $40 for no cap and so was 'grandma' and they put a 40GB cap and STILL kept it at $40 how does that make grandma pay less if she only uses 500MB? If that was what they really wanted they would make a real metered billing aka PAYG plan. For like 20/5 for $10 and if 1GB cost them $0.10 we would pay $0.20. I support this bill because it stops us from getting price gouged and skrewed. As far as I know it does not stop metered billing just makes them not be able to gouge us, and that is good. If it does make metering illegal then that part needs to go the Gov should not be able to say that, they should be able to say they cannot gouge/skrew us. And they can and I think they should.

major marco
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said by S_engineer See Profile :

I think it's high time congress dragged these clowns to the hill and interogated them on where all of the money for upgrades through tax incentives has gone. They did it to AIG, and GM, they should now do it to TW, and the Death Star.
I would hardly call this particular event you refer to as "dragging." More like rolling out the red carpet and throwing roses at their feet. These chumpstains from AIG et al. got the royal treatment. Never in a million years would I ever refer to it as an "interrogation." More like Congre$$ional lickspittles verbally fellating their constituency.
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espaeth
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said by S_engineer See Profile :

If Att wanted to give "grandma" her fair shake, then they'd lower the prices for the measly 50MB of usage that "grandma" uses per month.
As long as you realize that lowering the price paid by the low usage subscribers will dramatically increase the costs of moderate to high end subscribers. The MRC income of flat-rate billing keeps things evenly distributed today.

The low usage subscribers make up a much greater percentage of the customer base than most on this forum think.

S_engineer

join:2007-05-16
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1 edit

Re: Liars

I disagree, i think that most users on this forum understand the mass populace is using only minimal amounts of bandwidth. This is the crux of the argument.
for years these companies have ignored forecasts about the exponential growth of the Internet. They were able to accomodate and oversell their userbase only because of the low usage subscribers. Few carriers decided to take the upgrade route. The rest are now taking the route of upgrading nothing at a time where bandwidth usage forecasts continue to climb. A Cap or an overage fee does not fix the technical issues that still loom. Their lack making the necessary upgrades the keep up what their own forecast were calling for are their own fault. This was clearly a case where quarterly reports became more important than the long term position that these companies needed to take.

And Major...you have a point...maybe Gitmo would be in order!

EDIT* And another thing, if there was such a bandwidth apocolyse looming, then why would these carriers line up to sign agreements with online video service ESPN360?

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espaeth
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Re: Liars

said by S_engineer See Profile :

I disagree, i think that most users on this forum understand the mass populace is using only minimal amounts of bandwidth.
I don't know, people seem to get on board with Karl when he suggests a majority of people will be impacted by caps of even 100GB.

said by S_engineer See Profile :

This is the crux of the argument.
for years these companies have ignored forecasts about the exponential growth of the Internet.
I don't think it's that black and white. Residential Internet options that people sign up for today were born out of opportunity to reuse existing infrastructure (twisted pair copper phone lines and coax cable), and were not necessarily designed to be the best / most scalable platform out there.

said by S_engineer See Profile :

The rest are now taking the route of upgrading nothing at a time where bandwidth usage forecasts continue to climb. A Cap or an overage fee does not fix the technical issues that still loom.
Caps do nothing but attempt to buy you time while planning the next network upgrade. They are imperfect, as they don't address peak congestion. In most cases caps are really only good as a published benchmark to use when dealing with "network abuse" -- a poor term which doesn't necessarily mean that you're doing anything illegal, just using more capacity than the system is really designed to handle.

said by S_engineer See Profile :

Their lack making the necessary upgrades the keep up what their own forecast were calling for are their own fault. This was clearly a case where quarterly reports became more important than the long term position that these companies needed to take.
I don't think it's quite that simple. I find it interesting that nobody every questions why carrier bandwidth is so inexpensive, especially considering these are also "greedy corporations" building out those networks. The difference is carrier bandwidth has always been sold in full dedicated capacity, or burstable capacity with metered billing. The link is set where more bandwidth means more revenue which means (hopefully) more profit. The residential ISPs with flat rate billing have very little incentive to upgrade bandwidth, except when scarcity would cause subscribers to leave.

said by S_engineer See Profile :

EDIT* And another thing, if there was such a bandwidth apocolyse looming, then why would these carriers line up to sign agreements with online video service ESPN360?
The cost of signing up for ESPN360 is minimal for large ISPs (in the grand scheme of things), and if it prevents users from leaving it's a win.

ytr22

@suddenlink.net

"The low usage subscribers make up a much greater percentage of the customer base than most on this forum think."

And at the end of the day it doesn't matter, because both high bandwidth users and low bandwidth users are already being RAPED on the cost per byte.

insomniac84

join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN


1 edit
said by espaeth See Profile :

The low usage subscribers make up a much greater percentage of the customer base than most on this forum think.
Until more and more people start getting more services over the internet. Like TV and movies. Sure right now grandma might only use 50mb, but in 20-30 years that isn't going to be true. Hell it might not even be true in 10 years. Cable companies are most likely predicting much more heavy use of the internet.

If you give them what seems like an inch today. In 20 years that inch will be a million miles. They will have created a system where they get to make heavy profit for delivering services that compete with their tv service.

espaeth
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Re: Liars

said by insomniac84 See Profile :

If you give them what seems like an inch today. In 20 years that inch will be a million miles. They will have created a system where they get to make heavy profit for delivering services that compete with their tv service.
You're assuming that only broadcast video services are able to deliver Internet access with that statement.

Public access to the Internet has grown on non-dedicated access media from its earliest days. The primary method started out as modems using the public switched telephone network, and eventually grew to technologies that "piggyback" existing deployed infrastructure to reduce the cost of deployment. There is only so much the current broadband providers can raise their rates. The networks are currently below market equilibrium because they are leveraging existing deployed cable plant. The current pricing is such that competitors can't afford to build out new infrastructure to establish new Internet service and make a profit. The current broadband companies can only raise prices by a certain amount before it will become cost effective for other companies to build out their own purpose-built Internet networks to residential markets.

insomniac84

join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN

Re: Liars

said by espaeth See Profile :

The current pricing is such that competitors can't afford to build out new infrastructure to establish new Internet service and make a profit.
Not true. Municipalities seem to have no problem building it up and making profit. Granted it's easier for them to get start up loans, but still. Even verizon is replacing their existing network with fiber. So it's incorrect to claim they can't afford it.

said by espaeth See Profile :

The current broadband companies can only raise prices by a certain amount before it will become cost effective for other companies to build out their own purpose-built Internet networks to residential markets.
So basically they are leveraging their size to prevent competition with artificially low rates and now they want to be able to continue to advertise a low base price while still getting an increase via the under-advertised metered part of the price?

I think not. They should have to advertise a flat price, that is the only way to keep everything fair. It's bad enough that they don't include fees and taxes in the advertised price. You want them to advertise a service for 19.95 a month and put some fine print about a 40b cap and 2 dollar a GB charges at the bottom? It would send the internet back to 1995.

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Re: Liars

said by insomniac84 See Profile :

said by espaeth See Profile :

The current pricing is such that competitors can't afford to build out new infrastructure to establish new Internet service and make a profit.
Not true. Municipalities seem to have no problem building it up and making profit.
Really?

»Earthlink Closing Philly Wi-Fi Network June 12

»MetroFi Pulls Out of Municipal Wireless Game

»Utah's Utopia Tries To Stay Afloat

said by insomniac84 See Profile :

Even verizon is replacing their existing network with fiber. So it's incorrect to claim they can't afford it.
Verizon's rollout of FiOS is about one thing: triple play. Both ATT and Verizon realized early on that the TV / Phone / Internet packages are where the real money was to be made and the cable companies had the upper hand. That's been the driving force behind U-Verse and FiOS deployments - keeping the companies viable.

said by insomniac84 See Profile :

They should have to advertise a flat price, that is the only way to keep everything fair. It's bad enough that they don't include fees and taxes in the advertised price. You want them to advertise a service for 19.95 a month and put some fine print about a 40b cap and 2 dollar a GB charges at the bottom? It would send the internet back to 1995.
It's the fastest way to get capacity expansion. That's why there is so much backbone capacity at the moment: bandwidth at the backbone level is billed based on consumption. You want them to build more capacity? Use more bandwidth.

Right now with the flat pricing structure all you do by consuming more bandwidth is eat away at the profit structure; growing demand only provides motivation for companies to upgrade if the service will degrade to the point that customers will quit.

The simple reality is prices are going to go up one way or another.

Matt
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Re: Liars

Muni WiFi != Muni Fiber.

espaeth
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Re: Liars

said by Matt See Profile :

Muni WiFi != Muni Fiber.
You'll note Utopia is on that list of links. That's muni fiber, my friend.

Matt
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Re: Liars

said by espaeth See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

Muni WiFi != Muni Fiber.
You'll note Utopia is on that list of links. That's muni fiber, my friend.
Yes, but that was only 1 of 3 of your links and it hasn't failed.

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1 edit

Re: Liars

said by Matt See Profile :

Yes, but that was only 1 of 3 of your links and it hasn't failed.
... yet.

Certainly that they're struggling to meet revenue to support operations doesn't really support the statement that "Municipalities seem to have no problem building it up and making profit."

There are a number of muni-networks that fail because they are only sustainable if they get a 70%+ conversion rate. That's tough for any company to do, no matter how good they are. Even Verizon is only mustering a 25% adoption rate with FiOS, no matter how superior it may be to other offerings.

insomniac84

join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN

Yes, because not profiting as much as they wanted to means they aren't profiting. And to me it was stupid not to also target businesses. You can easily charge them double or more and sell profitable SLAs. They need to focus on all areas and not just undeserved areas. The reasons why an area is undeserved is because people are poor and can't pay for it.

It seems Utopia isn't profiting as much as they want due to them excluding the more profitable areas and customers. If they targeted everyone they wouldn't have a problem.

espaeth
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Re: Liars

said by insomniac84 See Profile :

Yes, because not profiting as much as they wanted to means they aren't profiting.
It means they aren't making profits at a rate that will allow them to pay back their loans.

With muni-broadband, that means that the tax payers are stuck paying off the business that couldn't cut it. Of course, the federal government has been doing a lot of that lately, so who am I to say that approach is wrong?

Matt
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Re: Liars

said by espaeth See Profile :

said by insomniac84 See Profile :

Yes, because not profiting as much as they wanted to means they aren't profiting.
It means they aren't making profits at a rate that will allow them to pay back their loans.

With muni-broadband, that means that the tax payers are stuck paying off the business that couldn't cut it. Of course, the federal government has been doing a lot of that lately, so who am I to say that approach is wrong?
It's okay to be anti-muni, but please try and support your arguments with facts rather than assumptions.

Have any muni's failed and dumped the burden on their taxpayers? How many muni operations (non-WiFi) have actually failed ... period? From most of the articles I've read on here over the years, the munis are privately funded and or structured in a way to shield taxpayers. To put it in perspective, for every failed muni, it would be just as easy to dig up two that are so far successful. UTOPIA blazed the trail and luckily, their business model is open for anyone to see. New muni deployments are free to see what worked and what didn't.

In any business, whether government backed or not, there are and will be failures. I think we could easily dig up several public companies that have failed miserably too. The key to muni deployments is to shield taxpayers and require the muni to pay all taxes and fees, just like a private company. Regardless, if a public company won't serve an area and when put to a vote, the populace decides they want to do it themselves, the company who refused to serve the area shouldn't have a say.

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1 edit

Re: Liars

said by Matt See Profile :

It's okay to be anti-muni, but please try and support your arguments with facts rather than assumptions.

Have any muni's failed and dumped the burden on their taxpayers? How many muni operations (non-WiFi) have actually failed ... period?
It depends on how you define failed I guess. In my case I define it as "not succeeding," although you appear to be defining it as "dead."

So let's look at iProvo. They deployed the network using city enterprise funds used to provide self-supporting services like city water & sewer. In mid-2007 the city council added $1.2 million in sales tax revenue to help prop up the shortfall of iProvo to meet its self-sustaining status. By the end of 2007, they had a an additional $850k shortfall which had to be covered by the city general fund. By May of last year, to get out of the business of trying to manage the network the city sold the service to Broadweave for $40.6 million ... sort of. It turns out Broadweave didn't have the cash to actually front the sale, so the city wrote it off as bonds which it retained and allowed Broadweave to pay off the sale in $268k monthly payments, only for the last few months Broadweave hasn't been paying.

Adoption rates are absolutely critical for networks, which is why incumbents fight these projects tooth and nail. As soon as another provider comes in to leech away customers, they're left with the same operational costs of maintain a network that reaches their entire service area with a dwindling revenue left to support it.

Muni-wifi options are definitely cheaper. The Portland muni-Wifi failure only cost the city $60k to take down the now dormant gear.

said by Matt See Profile :

UTOPIA blazed the trail and luckily, their business model is open for anyone to see. New muni deployments are free to see what worked and what didn't.
If Utopia is such a shining star of success, then why are they asking the member cities to come up with another $504 million in sales tax revenue to help keep operations going?

said by Matt See Profile :

In any business, whether government backed or not, there are and will be failures. I think we could easily dig up several public companies that have failed miserably too.
When public companies fail, the investors take the hit. When government-backed services fail, the tax payers are forced to carry the costs. That's the whole point of city projects, in some way or another all of that money is funded through taxes, and taxes are not an optional payment for citizens. Well, I guess they sort of are -- if you don't pay them you always have the option of jailtime.

I agree that it's unfortunate that public telecoms won't provide the service, but usually it's because they actually have a pretty good understanding of what the costs are for operating such a beast and elect not to launch themselves into the money pit.

insomniac84

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said by espaeth See Profile :

It means they aren't making profits at a rate that will allow them to pay back their loans.
No it means they aren't making the meaningful profits after paying off the loans. Of course if they serve business customers that will change fast.

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
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1 edit

Has to be all or nothing

This "ISPs with more than 2 million subscribers" won't fly. It has to apply to ALL ISPs otherwise the big guys will cry about unfair competition.

Otherwise just keep the status quo.

baineschile
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Cap or Per Byte

They have to decide if there is going to be a cap with overagres, or just a speed/consumption model.

Either way, these companies that want to meter have more money than any of us, so its probably a lost cause if they have a one track mind.

Either way, I hope everything stays reasonable (250gig comcast cap, i personally think is more than enough), and they evalutate it annually.

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Re: Cap or Per Byte

I agree, although I don't like caps, I can tolerate reasonable ones. 250GB/month is reasonable, imo. at least for now. Once HD content becomes more available, they will need to increase the cap.
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me1212

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Re: Cap or Per Byte

"Once HD content becomes more available, they will need to increase the cap." They won't. That is one of the reason they stared capping. Competition is what we need.

battleop

join:2005-09-28
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Re: Cap or Per Byte

Just like they won't increase throughput? It's unreasonable to think they won't increase caps as time goes along.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: Cap or Per Byte

Throughput is a white elephant of backend networking.

Increasing throughput to the average user will help take the load off their network theoretically as it would get the average user on the network and then off of it quicker.

If 1000 people request a 1mb file or website with 1mb of data and they get it at 1.3kbps then that is going to be "congesting" their network just the same, if not more, than those same 1000 people requesting that same information on a 10Mbps connection. Powerboost is an example of one company recognizing this and implementing something to help them.

Obviously your "abusers" which is what this is all about. Will be pegging either connection constantly for most of the time. Those are the people that need to be dealt with.

S_engineer

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1 edit

Re: Cap or Per Byte

said by Skippy25 See Profile :

Obviously your "abusers" which is what this is all about. Will be pegging either connection constantly for most of the time. Those are the people that need to be dealt with.
just how do you define abuser...someone who uses their connection to its fullest extent?
If everyone downloads massive files at the same time, there will be network congestion. Theres no cap that could stop that scenario.
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sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

For the upteenth time, caps DO NOT help manage network congestion. Congestion occurs during times of peak usage, usually in the evening when even the "low usage" users get on Youtube and stream videos.

There are no "reasonable" caps. You will have no idea how little bandwidth costs these ISPs until they are forced to reveal that data. Any consumer toleration of caps is essentially a slippery slope, where "reasonable" is arbitrarily defined by the average uninformed consumer or greedy corporation with little vision for or understanding of the future.

In other countries with advanced internet networks, including Sweden (which has a lower population density than America), there are no caps, nor would any ISP dare instituting a cap lest they lose customers to competitors.

You need to get the idea of "reasonable" caps out of your head. Otherwise you'll end up being the perfect little PR drone for your greedy ISP.
me1212

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Re: Cap or Per Byte

They must have competition in sweden. Wish it was like that here.

davoice

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There ARE reasonable caps. I have them at all my web hosts.

For $199/mo I get 100mbps connection on which I can use 5TB (5000GB) of transfer per month. And my web host makes money at those rates.

Extrapolated... that means $50/mo would buy 1.25TB of transfer, or 1250GB.

Now I understand there are certain other costs associated with running a cable, DSL or other delivery network to end-premise locations.

So if we assume 75% of the cost of the plan is in keeping the outside plant running and such, then I would still have 300GB of transfer at $50/mo.

Hmm... interesting... that figure seems really close to Comcast's 250GB cap.

I don't mind a cap if it's in line w/ the actual cost of delivering the bandwidth.

Problem is, as we all know in this case, TWC, et al. doesn't want to charge rates in line with costs... the want to increase profits. Meaning they want to charge far in excess of actual costs.

}Davoice
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

Re: Cap or Per Byte

Wow. So basically you just read the first sentence of my post, ignoring everything else I said. Never mind the 'caps don't manage network congestion part'. Or the absolute lack of caps in competitive international markets. No, you have to focus on webhosts, which provide dedicated lines and extra special service around the lines. Brilliant.
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
·VOIPo

Competition would stop this.

Look at FiOS and cable vision areas. They have good competition CV even added a 101/15 package to keep people from going to FiOS and FiOS is getting new packages out 10/2 to 15/5 and 20/5 to 25/15. But 3 or more ISPs per area would be best IMHO.

"If government is going to get involved, they're better served by taking actions that foster competition. As we've seen with Cablevision and Verizon's reluctance to impose caps or meters, and Time Warner's reluctance to trial meters in FiOS markets, competition is kind of like DEET for dumb, self-serving telecom ideas. The threat of customer defection will keep carriers on their best behavior."

See 20 replies to this post
tdouglas22

join:2001-09-25
Memphis, TN

So what do WE need to do to make our voices heard again?

We can't just sit by and let this go through. We have to do something to get it across that this is NOT good for the customers and does nothing to help us. Ideas, anybody? I'm all eyes and ears.

See 6 replies to this post

Broken Back
Premium
join:2002-05-19
Dallas, TX

Uverse

Your TV Service with ATT just got out of hand with metered billing.
--
Over The Hill

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype

Remember CompuServe?

CompuServe - late 1980s-early 1990s
$6.00/hour at 300 baud
$12.50/hour at 1200/2400 baud

Now they knew how to meter!

Why on Earth would we want to go back to that?
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD

Re: Remember CompuServe?

said by funchords See Profile :

CompuServe - late 1980s-early 1990s
$6.00/hour at 300 baud
$12.50/hour at 1200/2400 baud

Now they knew how to meter!

Why on Earth would we want to go back to that?
Holy S***... Back in the day. Don't forget how EarthLink and AOL tried to pull the same crap in the early 90's.
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
Cause ISPs can price gouge make more money.
fishacura

join:2008-01-25
Phoenixville, PA

I don't get it...

If my neighbor is downloading 500 GB per month and I am downloading 1GB per month, why shouldn't he/she pay a lot more than I do? What does the carriers cost have to do with anything? What the decide to charge, in a capitalistic system, is based on what the market will bear. People pay markups for everything and if a company drives their price up above the demand, they will fail...simple economics.

What am I missing?
--
People who don't get good service on average tell 10 others while people who do get good service on average tell 1.

See 34 replies to this post

spamd
Premium
join:2001-04-22
Rockford, IL
·Insight Communicat..

The future of the internet.

Anyone here who thinks that metered billing is not going to happen is in for a rude awakening. History has proven that big business always gets what they want in the end. I expect to see metered billing used by all ISP's in late 2010 if not later that the end of 2011. If you notice that all wireless ISP's all ready do have this in place. Just look at the latest headlines.

»Oh AT&T Tethering 'Sources,' You Taunt Us

»gigaom.com/2009/06/18/broadband-···by-2011/

»Verizon Unveils Global Broadband 3G Modem

»Lawmaker Unveils Anti-Metered Billing Law

»Higher Prices, Recession Can't Stop Broadband Growth
--
When everything is coming your way, you are in the wrong lane.

spamd
Premium
join:2001-04-22
Rockford, IL
·Insight Communicat..

Re: The future of the internet.

Well I for one can see broadband treated like the oil market. Just like any other consumed commodity like oil, natural gas, electricity, water. If big business could charge for the air we breathe I am sure they will find a way. Hopefully I will be long dead by the time that happens.
--
When everything is coming your way, you are in the wrong lane.

Exploit

@rhsnet.org

Re: The future of the internet.

I believe you are speaking of an oxigen bar
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
·VOIPo

Maybe, maybe not we do not know what the future holds. If they were reasonable caps maybe but the ISPs want to keep internet video usage down so they can make more tv money. The whole world may cap or the cap may die we do not know right now, all we can do is what we think is right.
UncleDirtNap

join:2006-08-26
Pittsburgh, PA

The day they move to metered billing...

... is the same day I scrap my broadband connection and go back to dial up.

If everyone else did the same they'd back track in less than a month.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable

Law Won't pass

This law won't pass. It will be killed at the sounds of the Feds being sued and more money being spent from the tax payers.

The feds don't have the money to take this thing to court. TWC, ATT, Comcast and the others do. Especially when combined. The court will rule Congress does NOT have the power to regulate a private network.
PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD

Nice Blog Updates

Anyone else notice that their blog hasn't seen a single update since '06?

»www.consumers4choice.org/blog
LurkerLito

join:2004-06-08

Just wait Grandma!

PR departments fired up their engines as well, AT&T insisting to us that their metered billing trials in Reno and Beaumont, Texas are really about making sure that "grandma" gets a fair shake.
That's a nice thing for grandma to have, just wait the the grand kids come over and give her the first $500 overage charge and let's see how expensive the original $40/month unlimited plan she has now stacks up.

Here is a great idea for stopthecap, just make a short video of a bunch of kids trying to send grandma a video of the family and have the parents stop them and tell the kids, "don't do that cause grandma will have to pay overages to receive it."
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

Re: Just wait Grandma!

Sounds like a good idea to me.

mrkevin
Knowledge comes, but wisdom lingers.
Premium
join:2007-08-07
Aurora, ME
clubs:
wait until grandma's computer gets infected with a worm.

What about IP TV?
amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:

All your base

Sounds like their dream plan - bill for internet like they did/do w/phone service.

Frak this whole idea of billing per byte/megabyte/gigabyte. Nobody, not even the "grandma" wants this madness.
Market some levels of service that people want, and leave people alone to do what they wish with that connection. They should advertise that "lite" level of service more if that's what they really really think people might like... Notice how NONE of the providers advertise this much aside from the occasional "deal" on DSL which usually leads to a bigger bill than expected (they're always great about screwing up the bill in their favor somehow...)

Biggest argument against these "giant corporations" is this:
-They have steadily increased "speeds" over the years, right?
-They have steadily kept prices reasonable at the same time
-Now they're more and more upset about people using these connections... why?
---Could ISPs have simply KEPT "speeds" at whatever level (think 1.5Mbps DSL or 3Mbps cable) until they were ready for increased usage?

I call this poor planning if they want to argue about it. Every opportunity was there for planning things in a "better" way if they'd wanted to.

Instead, ISPs have continually had:
-a steady stream of money
-spent some of that on upgrades to speed/capacity/buildout/etc. and done PLENTY fine, even with "hogs" on the network. ...And probably still had enough leftover to keep buying more fast cars, boats, whatever else.

This is pure and simple greed. Nothing fancy about it. Pure and simple desire for more and more for themselves at the expense of the many "faithful" customers they've had for years and years.
Heated Man

join:2009-06-18
Cleveland, OH

The photo here

I really wish this site would stop posting photos of this terrorist when discussing stuff on here. It is dis-respectful. Surely you guys are more creative than this?

S_engineer

join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast

Re: The photo here

Is this better?

NetAdmin
CCNA

join:2008-05-22

said by Heated Man See Profile :

I really wish this site would stop posting photos of this terrorist when discussing stuff on here. It is dis-respectful.
I just researched Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf's bio and there is nothing in it about ties to terrorism. He was not a member nor was he a member of a terrorist group. The only thing he did was act as the press contact for Iraq during GWII. That doesn't even come close to being a "terrorist."
--
"This is a bus. You know how big a bus is?"
Heated Man

join:2009-06-18
Cleveland, OH

Re: The photo here

Well the way this site posts the picture it is poking fun at him and that should not happen. My apologies for saying he was a terrorist. But it does not change the fact that this site continues to bash him.

NetAdmin
CCNA

join:2008-05-22

Re: The photo here

I don't know what the site's motivation is for using the photo, but I'm under the impression they use it when a person or a company is shoveling crapola, the same way al-Sahhaf was issuing government propaganda during the GWII invasion. He was the one that kept saying to the world that nothing was going on, coalition forces weren't in Iraq and so forth, despite the fact that is was false propaganda. So, I don't think they are making fun of the guy, as much as comparing companies and people to that period in his life as the Iraqi Information Minister.
--
"This is a bus. You know how big a bus is?"

mrkevin
Knowledge comes, but wisdom lingers.
Premium
join:2007-08-07
Aurora, ME
clubs:

Re: The photo here

this is all off topic...something I got warned about last week...

Madness
A flea circus at a dog show.

join:2000-01-05
Quincy, MA

Better Idea...

How 'bout we just give up the Internet altogether & get out more? Would that make them happy?!! We survived before the Internet, did we not?
--
No keyboard present or keyboard error. Press <F1> to continue....

Klang

@sbcglobal.net

Re: Better Idea...

I'm all for it... except all we'd have left for information sources would be cartoon-images of newspapers, hate radio, and garbage television programming.

DJMASACRE

join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico

aaaaaaaaa

if this was thinking logically, ( which obviously its not )

then they would just leave everything as is, because theres nothing wrong with the current system, except maybe some com nies charging more than others )

by the bit is ridiculous .. then they may as well give us any speeds that we want .. since we would be charged by how much we download anyway , it makes no difference ..

im without words
gorehound

join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME

Consumption will suck

I will be extremely angry if I am forced to pay some kind of BS consumption billing scheme here in the USA.
And if there is anyone at all who is out there saying they actually support this maybe they would be so kind as to PAY MY BILL !!!

Cause the only way someone will support this is if they either work for one of the shyster companies like Slime Warner or they are a rich yuppie who does not care about their fellow consumer citizens.

FightCaps

@pacbell.net

Opportunity

Since all the ISP's want to move to charging per byte. There may be a business opportunity for groups to setup neighborhood ISP's. Run a T1/T3 line into a household and let the neighbors connect wireless.
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

Re: Opportunity

I was thinking the same thing. The speeds would not be as fast, but no cap/meter ether.

anon101

@comcast.net

Re: Opportunity

If you could do simple math you'd understand a T1 has a cap of 350ish GB a month. So a 250 GB cap isn't that bad - its essentially 1 mbit/sec 24/7/30

mang

@yahoo.com

Grandma.....

My Grandma get's discounted cable/phone/util service because she is a Sr citizen. Just tell grandma to go talk to Social Security for her benefits as a senior.

but for everyone else... let's keep the pricing where it should be 1/2 the fixed rate price of today for the same level of service.

if you flip the switch on the topic and say the customers demand 1/2 the current price for the exact same level of service (Then just stick your fingers in your ears as the lobbyist does his spin) these corp's will need to bow down.

or maybe we can all start a cut the cord of oppression month. Where everyone cancels their service for the same month

Ad revenue will crash, all tech companies will grind to a halt!

duder

@rr.com

say goodbye

say goodbye and don't give in to this crap anymore to hell with the internet getting like looking at crap tv to night i blow up my computer and give it all up life is to short for this shit any more what are we drug addicts no internet addicts we pay to much now for this crap

no more ..................
Forums » The Metered Billing Fight Is About To Get Uglypage: 1 · 2


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