The Birth of 'Fast TCP'Caltech researchers offer '8.6 gigabits per second' ( old news - 11:01AM Thursday Jun 05 2003) tags: alternatives · bandwidth A group of scientists at Caltech created quite a buzz this week with the announcement of "Fast TCP", a refined internet protocol they hope could send them laughing all the way to the bank. This New Scientist report on the technology is the best of the bunch, but information is also available at the Caltech website. While the technology sounds impressive (they've run a form of TCP at speeds hitherto unknown), the claims are highly misleading -- "6,000 times faster" and "8.6 gigabits per second" references -- For one, they chained 10 Fast TCP systems together to obtain those speeds, but more importantly there is no protocol on earth that can overcome the basic speed your cable or DSL modem is locked to run at. Adding a new form of TCP on both client and server ends will not magically make more bandwidth appear, although it may behave more gracefully where there are periods of slight packet loss, and not slow down as much as normal TCP, and be more capable than TCP of extremely high speeds given extremely fast hardware and fiber optics. The scientists hope to strike a deal with Microsoft and Disney for video on demand services, and the press reports claiming that the technology allows the download of whole movies in just five seconds is sure to help, even if the claim begs the question of how all our broadband connections are somehow going to become super fast, for the same price, or higher prices. Ie: a connection rated by company X at 1mbit, is 1mbit max. No matter WHAT you do to it, no matter how you squeeze data down it, (other than illegally hack the firmware of the modem). ok?
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 markopoleo
join:2003-04-02
Bonne Terre, MO
 ·Charter Pipeline
| Oh please..another scam set in motion. Why post this crap on dsl reports.
There has been dozens of people post this kind of stuff, never happens.
Sure its possible if you use there testing methods!
All together now..."Riiippppppooofffff"
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If PLC goes mainstream, every other broadband provider will be considered what dialup is today...not broadband. | |
| 
Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
 ·Embarq
edited
| Nit Pick I know I'm being picky here but I hate when new technology is called "fast" or "new" because one day that technology will be old and slow. Assuming this does catch on 20 or 30 years from now to say fast tcp will be reffering to an old technology that is slow and good only for reminiscing.
Edit for spelling.
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Today I didn't even have to use my AK, I gotta say it was a good day. - Ice Cube www.maxolasersquad.com
[text was edited by author 2003-06-05 11:14:28] | |
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aztecnology
The Autumn wind is a Raider
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA |  Re: Nit Pick
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DSLTech
join:2000-12-30
San Jose, CA | Re: Nit Pick FastEthernet is the SH*T! In a good way. | |
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djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA | You mean like my old Courier HST (High Speed Technology) modem that goes at 14.4kbps? 
-- Rob | |
| 
Apophis
Jaffa Kree
Premium
join:2001-12-27
Holmen, WI
clubs: 
| THIS JUST IN!!!! Charter Communications implements FAST TCP Protocol Acrossed cable modem connection. New firmware's will be flashed onto all cable modem's to assure that no one goes above the 128kbps upload limit even though they now have 100's of megabits of upload bandwidth available.
Also Just in, Charter Communication signs a 10 year deal with the city of P3x594 of the planet mars to offer 10mbps/10mbps connections to residential customers for $8.99 a year.
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Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools. | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Re: THIS JUST IN!!!! lol... 10 years from now people will be purchasing 10meg/128k connections from charter. | |
| | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: THIS JUST IN!!!! I'm dreaming of a future where a tiny wire embedded in the ear-piece of computerized eyeglasses provides multi-megabit connectivity. A tiny projector provides a wall-sized image on the rear of the glasses. The mouse cursor follows our pupils. As we look down, we see a keyboard superimposed on our lap and a infrared scanning device watches our finger movements as we type in what appears to be thin air. | |
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Kaltes
Premium
join:2002-12-04
Los Angeles, CA | Virtual keyboard? With that kind of technology why rely on such a quaint form of input.
No, I insist that the device read my mind as well. | |
| | | | | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: THIS JUST IN!!!! forget mind reading, i want a damn holodeck. imagine MMO games on a holodeck or even VR, hmm allways wondered how id look as an elf!
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | | | | | schyfe
join:2002-01-08
West Palm Beach, FL | Re: THIS JUST IN!!!! U got it, give me the damn Holodeck. Imagine a football game, or a facimile of the Playboy Mansion in the holodeck............(drool)! | |
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jhudson2
Copyright Martyr
join:2000-11-07
San Marcos, CA | Yes!! Now I can reach my download limit 6000 times faster! Ain't technology wonderful? | |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
clubs:
 ·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| Why do people crap on news like this? Broadband technology is in its infancy in the scheme of things. It has been around for a little over 7 years. It was only in major cities then it took another year just to get it a little more spread out. Today, there are people who still can't get it.
When news like this comes out, I don't believe it is going to be out tomorrow. However, I do believe they are making progress towards making the internet better. People have got to understand that the entire structure of the internet needs to be upgraded before 8.6 meg of bandwidth is even going to be possible. There are steps that need to be followed, money to be spent, time spent testing and implementing, and so on. It is going to take years for a new technology to be implemented through the entire internet that will allow that kind of bandwidth.
Instead of crapping, being optomistic that changes are coming is the best way to handle news like this. No one is saying you have to believe these changes are going to come overnight. However, a understanding that people are working hard to make a difference and change the way the internet works is very important.
--
My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal | |
| | | | | | | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus | Re: Why do people crap on news like this? From what I can tell, you use Comcast and you don't think that's the case ?! Come use Cox and you'll see. 
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THIS IS A SIG... | |
| | | | | | | | | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus | Re: Why do people crap on news like this? You do have a point that it doesn't seem to fit with this discussion even though its widely true.
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Cold, Hard, and Unpopular scientific facts maybe be included... Read at your own risk. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: Why do people crap on news like this? all large companies are souless, if they had souls they would have less profit and a fair market.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | markopoleo
join:2003-04-02
Bonne Terre, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Because they are throwing in stuff like everyone else, since the day of broadband has come out. Why? Cause thats what it is, just talk so far.
Everyone would be happy if this was possible of course, but everyone has a nice laugh at there expensive so far.
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If PLC goes mainstream, every other broadband provider will be considered what dialup is today...not broadband. | |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
clubs:
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
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| Re: Why do people crap on news like this? said by markopoleo  :
Because they are throwing in stuff like everyone else, since the day of broadband has come out. Why? Cause thats what it is, just talk so far.
Everyone would be happy if this was possible of course, but everyone has a nice laugh at there expensive so far.
There are a lot of different announcements on the future of broadband. Seems like there have been about 10 different announements actually. I take each one lightly, but I also know that there are people working on making things faster for the home. You are right, it is just talk so far, but it is still news. I like to be able to follow the technology personally. Just like all the advancements you hear about the battle against AIDS, SARS, and cancer. No cure yet, but I don't mind hearing about the battle and how it is going. Same thing when it comes to the speed of the internet, IPv6, wireless access, DOCSIS 2.0, and so on.
I remember a time when broadband was promoted about 10 years ago and no one believed it was true. In fact, a lot of people laughed when the concept of fast data pipe to the home was announced. I am not saying that this technology would be implemented, but merely saying to keep an open mind. That is how new technology and advances in existing technology happen.
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Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal | |
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rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY
| Billy Boy the piece also noted they are in "talks" with Microsoft and Disney about deployment which means Billy will tie it into IE and charge a fee for it. thank God for the Federal suit that just was settled. I'm happy to see the government waste all our money and now say nothing as they announce their plans to rebundle the browser into the operating system. watch them make a deal for exclusivity with IE or Langhorn or whatever the name of the next operating system is and charge a fee. | |
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murdok6100
Avatar. Get It, Avatar?
join:2002-06-20
| Re: Billy Boy said by rit56 :
the piece also noted they are in "talks" with Microsoft and Disney about deployment which means Billy will tie it into IE and charge a fee for it. thank God for the Federal suit that just was settled. I'm happy to see the government waste all our money and now say nothing as they announce their plans to rebundle the browser into the operating system. watch them make a deal for exclusivity with IE or Langhorn or whatever the name of the next operating system is and charge a fee.
You could always go with another OS, can't you?
murdok610 | |
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murdok6100
Avatar. Get It, Avatar?
join:2002-06-20
| Re: Billy Boy said by KoolMoe :
That is such a silly reply. Not trying to get into the old wars again, but come on. No, one cannot simply go with another OS. MS is not open-standards. It is not feasible for a company, nor even an individual, to go with Linux or MacOS when the applications and documents they create on those systems won't work with everybody else's system. Much less the applications aren't available on those systems either.
I used to work exclusively on a Mac, until my primary applications ported to Windows and abandoned the Mac. I don't really have a problem with that, but 'just using another OS' is not an option.
KM
I know its not viable Moe. I know that, but until people/companies make a change nothing will be done about the 'ol browser wars. Nothing is going to change - people will continue to buy microsoft and then complain about the monopoly. To me that makes no since, and the only way to "fix the glitch" is to make the switch.
murdok610 | |
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gnucleus7
Number 3 Forever
join:2002-06-06
NASCAR | DSL Monster Alumni reunite | |
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nerdyguy$
Premium
join:2003-03-15
Canada | Yes but These fast connections will overload web and FTP servers and consume all their bandwidth.
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DSL is overrated | |
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funkym0nk3y
join:2002-06-27 | Re: Yes but well....i'm sure those web and ftp servers will still be on even faster lines :P
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You can catch me at #dslr | |
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Vathral
Premium
join:2002-08-26
New York, NY
clubs: | Hard Drive ??? Can the hard drive even record all that data in that amount of time and speed???
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Forum Count:540 | |
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phuntism
@santa-monica.ca
| No scam, just improved algorithms If you read the write up at CalTech's website, you'll see that that FAST TCP is only faster than regular TCP because the current implementation of TCP handles errors so poorly. The concept behind FAST is simple, and it's plainly easy to see why it runs 3-5 times faster over a single broadband link - I'm glad someone finally did all the work to put it together.
Another major bonus: the only change needed is a software update at the servers - clients needn't change a thing!
The paper is 11 pages and dense in places, so if nothing else, at least look at the graphs on page 8, they pretty much explain it all.
Here's the paper with the graphs.
»netlab.caltech.edu/pub/papers/fa···0401.pdf
Here's the page with all the FAST papers.
»netlab.caltech.edu/FAST/publications.html | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
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justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY
Host:
IPv6
Business Connectiv..
Home/Office setup ..
Console/Handheld g..
Console Tech
| LIES damn lies and news on research reports The news on this bit of reseach has been incredibly misleading. Although TCP is not very good at handling dropped packets, and slows down, basic TCP *DOES* try to stream data packets as fast as possible, using close to the maximum bandwidth of the weakest link.
In other words, changing the tcp protocol will NOT make anyones cable or DSL connection work beyond the speed you bought it at. It MIGHT make downloads a little more efficient, though, and thats it.
So to trumpet gigabits is pointless when a cable or DSL model is physically incapable, either due to line noise or due to economics, of going faster than the speed set by the provider.
In this sense, the reports on the paper are HIGHLY misleading, if the reporters are not making mistakes, then the researches must be fishing for funds. Replacing TCP, even for just one class of downloads, is an incredibly difficult proposition and should only be considered if there are real advantages to the replacement. If broadband links are reliable, up to and including their advertised speed, I see absolutely no reason to go to the trouble of selling a new TCP standard. | |
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DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: LIES damn lies and news on research reports True.
If there is no balance, then the slowest thing will still be the bottleneck on the whole system.
Most of us are computer savvy enough to know that in our own systems (Hard Disks), so the networking of the internet is no different, and neither is our access to it.
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The three most dangerous things are a programmer with a soldering iron, a manager who codes, and a user who gets ideas. | |
| kergulen
join:2002-02-04
San Jose, CA
| What isn't FAST I think everyone, especially the reporter, totally misunderstands what FAST is, and what it will do. FAST has absolutely nothing to do with residential end users. FAST is a project sponsored primarily by the international high energy physics community (HENP) to attempt to develop a way to share massive amounts of data between widely physically separated locations at very high speed. This involves several components, only one of which may have some relevance to residential customers. Since none of us are ever likely to have parallelized OC12 uplinks to our home, we can forget about achieving anything like what FAST has achieved. What is fast is doing that is relevant - to residential users, and all other internet users, especially backbone ISPs, is trying to get switch/router vendors to drop the antiquated RENO algorithm, and try using VEGAS or modified VEGAS in an effort to reduce congestion induced packet loss and the consequent performance loss across WAN connections. For more details, see the FAST homepage:
»netlab.caltech.edu/FAST/ | |
| 
beerbum
5150
Premium
join:2000-05-06
Here!
·Comcast
| Compression?
could that be all this is.. some kind of compression scheme?
for the most part, a standard TCP stream is uncompressed data, so it wouldn't be far fetched to have some hardware compression on each side of the link. the result would not be increased transmission speed, rather more data can be pushed through.
tho it would have to be one hella efficient form of compression.
*shrug*
sounds like snake oil to me | |
| | anthonytalk$
join:2003-04-14
Merritt, BC
| No complaints here,heres why. The base unit isnt being shrunk
its staying large.
The improvement is reading what
can be kept large without getting small(packets wise).
So if the systems overloaded
it reads what packets can be sent and kept steady
then it does it.
Microsoft likes it , some other companies do to.
More product to the customer means more sales right. | |
| 
warlock56
Premium
join:2002-07-31
Arlington, TX
| Holodecks are the way to go... I still think a holodeck would be better. Imagine playing CounterStrike, Elite Force, or BF1942 without the use of a computer. Just step onto the deck with your Nazi uniform or whatever, pick up available weapon and start going at it.
Of course, they'd have to set all bullet hits to be non-lethal, but could make it to where you feel a slight impact and the computer could easily tell when you get hit too in order to keep score.
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Until hand phasers are available, I'll stick to my Glock 20 | |
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