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story category Symmetrical FiOS No Longer Qualifies For Bundle Discounts
Only 10/2 and 20/5 tiers now see bundle discounts
02:54PM Wednesday Oct 08 2008 by Karl Bode
tags: prices · Fiber · business · Verizon FIOS
Broadband Reports reader guppy_fish See Profile fired me a message this morning, saying that he was no longer able to get bundle discounts for FiOS's popular symmetrical 20Mbps tier, which costs $69.99/month. "I had FIOS installed on monday, I got the 20/5 double play with Freedom phone," says the user, whose new-found restriction we confirmed with Verizon. "Today I called to see about upping to the 20/20 tier and the phone rep said last night they removed all the higher speed tiers from being able to be bundled. You can still order 20/20 but must pay full price for the ALL services, no bundling discounts," he says.

"We no longer offer 20/20 as a qualifying bundle service," Verizon spokesperson Bobbi Henson tells me. "If this customer can receive and wants to receive FiOS TV -- an option would be to get a double-play TV/voice bundle to save money on those services, while purchasing the 20/20 broadband outside of the bundle." The $70 service (plus the usual fees) previously cost $65 if users bundled voice service, though the Verizon website has yet to be updated.

Verizon first unveiled their symmetrical 20Mbps FiOS offering in the fall of 2007, though initially it wasn't offered in all markets, and some markets were only offered a symmetrical 15Mbps tier. In June of this year, the symmetrical 20Mbps offering was extended into all markets. The symmetrical tier is a particularly effective marketing weapon against cable companies who've traditionally struggled to provide upstream bandwidth. For now, the tier even offers some insulation from DOCSIS 3.0, given the troubles with upstream channel bonding.

guppy_fish See Profile says what ticks him off is he missed out on the promotion by a hair. "If I had been able to do this last night online, it would have been fine, but I couldn't due to a pending disconnect on my old dsl prevented me from upgrading," he says. "So their system prevented me from making the upgrade and today I can't get that bundle."

So what's the reason for the change? "The rep I spoke with said it was to discourage the 20/20 tier as its taxing the network," says the user. "It was a business decision to streamline our bundles to feature our flagship offerings," says Henson.

Related:
  1. No, Your FiOS Rates Aren't Rising
  2. Standalone FiOS Price Hike
  3. Verizon Loses One GPON Partner
  4. Verizon Raising FiOS Prices Again Soon
  5. Verizon Confusing FiOS Customers Under Contract
  6. 50Mbps, 20/20Mbps FiOS Tiers Hit All Markets
  7. Verizon Promises FiOS To All Of DC In Ten Years
  8. Verizon Completes Digital Upgrade
Forums » Symmetrical FiOS No Longer Qualifies For Bundle Discounts
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Ah, basically a price increase

... aimed at those power users.

And the march of non-competition continues!

Chiyo
Save Me Konata-Chan
Premium
join:2003-02-20
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:

Re: Ah, basically a price increase

so are you using power user in a good or negative light?

Just curious I think its lame but sheesh I'll never see Comcast offer those speeds for that price

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest

Re: Ah, basically a price increase

Power user = postive. In this case, someone who for whatever reason wants the max speeds.

Such people are easy to target with price increases, because to them the extra speed is more important then to the average joe, which means, although they aren't happy about price increases, they consider it more of a necessity then others, and so will pony up the cash.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

FTTC

join:2008-10-01
Mount Rainier, MD
comcast is about to lunch a 22/5 tier really soon, so hold your horses.
qworster

join:2001-11-25
Los Angeles, CA
·Brand X Internet
·RoadRunner Cable
·Vonage
·DSL EXTREME
·EarthLink

Re: Ah, basically a price increase

said by FTTC See Profile :

comcast is about to lunch a 22/5 tier really soon, so hold your horses.
Yeah..with a CAP!

Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Re: Ah, basically a price increase

...and FAP

Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
Just that much more reason to pass on their overpriced TV service.
Oregonian2

join:2008-07-16
Beaverton, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·SpiritOne / Aracne..

Re: Ah, basically a price increase

said by Dogfather See Profile :

Just that much more reason to pass on their overpriced TV service.
At least for me (who has FiOS but doesn't have FiOS TV) their prices are a bit lower than others, and reputed to have higher quality. I've 1.5 years on my current plan after which I'll check up on prices again. Probably depends on the competition in one's particular area.
ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
Stratford, CT
Skee, give it a rest already, DirecTV sux.

S_engineer

join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

said by KrK See Profile :

And the march of non-competition continues!
Competition ...kind of like the banks competing for mortgages?

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest

Re: Ah, basically a price increase

said by S_engineer See Profile :

said by KrK See Profile :

And the march of non-competition continues!
Competition ...kind of like the banks competing for mortgages?
Non-competition. Like the banks not competing for mortgages.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Fredericksburg, TX
But if you've got a 20/20 connection do you really need FiberPOTS? Just saying...
Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA

Re: Ah, basically a price increase

Right. Without the bundle there's no point to get the POTS. Does the price really increase then?

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest

said by iansltx See Profile :

But if you've got a 20/20 connection do you really need FiberPOTS? Just saying...
What if you wanted FIOSTV tho? Or Verizon VOIP? Or Wireless?

Guess U can't bundle the highest speed internet with anything now.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Fredericksburg, TX
·Qwest.net
·Comcast
·magicjack.com
·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..

Re: Ah, basically a price increase

True. OTOH 20/20 and 50/20 are higher speeds than anyone else offers, so there's really no analog to the "averge Joe triple play" deal with those tiers. Whereas there is a rather direct correlation with the 10/2 and 20/5 tiers...Comcast's 6/1 and 8/2 or 16/2 service for example. Or RoadRunner's 10/1 and 15/2 services if you're in the right place, 7/512 and 10/768 if you're not.

The fact remains that Verizon's highest speed internet packages are still good deals compared with everyone else out there; name me a provider other than Cablevision who can match their 10/2 or 20/5 rates and I'll give 'em a round of applause. Provision: the company has to be in the U.S.

dadkins
Merry Whatever
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

Re: Ah, basically a price increase

Paxio.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Fredericksburg, TX

Re: Ah, basically a price increase

...and people say that WiMAX isn't rolled out anywhere...and I knew you were going to say that...

TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast

Who here actually believed all the Verizon Fios hype and how Verizon was going to replace Google as the corporation with a heart and the one with the consumer uppermost in their plans??

All that extra bandwidth was introduced at below cost prices to gain customers and steal them from cable companies. Now that they have captured many customers and the PR hype machine is in full flower, the prices will start reflecting actual costs.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest

Re: Ah, basically a price increase

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

Now that they have captured many customers and the PR hype machine is in full flower, the prices will start reflecting actual costs.
Huh, if the prices started reflecting actual costs, it would have to drop precipitously in price.

More like this the prices have started reflecting actual desired monopoly type profit margins....
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
wierdo

join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Teliax VOIP
·Cox HSI

Re: Ah, basically a price increase

said by KrK See Profile :

Huh, if the prices started reflecting actual costs, it would have to drop precipitously in price.

More like this the prices have started reflecting actual desired monopoly type profit margins....
$3.50 a megabit is a very good transit price when you're buying at GigE volume in a big datacenter. It's not at all excessive in small volume to your home.
--
It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: Ah, basically a price increase

Yet.

espaeth
Misanthrope
Premium
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
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·Comcast
·Embarq

said by KrK See Profile :

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

Now that they have captured many customers and the PR hype machine is in full flower, the prices will start reflecting actual costs.
Huh, if the prices started reflecting actual costs, it would have to drop precipitously in price.
Only if you subscribe to the BBR user notion that somehow the cost to deliver traffic between two points at the head-end is identical to the cost to distribute traffic to millions of endpoints.

The price of bandwidth is not fixed; the cost changes relative to the percentage of the infrastructure moving that traffic would consume. 1mbps on a 10,000mps connection is going to be significantly more cost effective than 1mbps out of a 155mbps upstream ATM path.

NetAdmin

join:2008-05-22

Re: Ah, basically a price increase

said by espaeth See Profile :

Only if you subscribe to the BBR user notion that somehow the cost to deliver traffic between two points at the head-end is identical to the cost to distribute traffic to millions of endpoints.
Ahh, but with FIOS's greater bandwidth in the last mile, and with the bandwidth supply greatly exceeding demand, the costs of 1Mbps via FIOS network won't be nearly as high as the costs of 1Mbps via DSL or DOCSIS 1.x/2.0
--
---
Drilling for more oil is akin to giving a methhead the keys to the meth lab.
Oregonian2

join:2008-07-16
Beaverton, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·SpiritOne / Aracne..

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

Who here actually believed all the Verizon Fios hype and how Verizon was going to replace Google as the corporation with a heart and the one with the consumer uppermost in their plans??
You're the first I've heard that from. Does Verizon have something where they say that that you can point me to? I'd be curious to see it.

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS

No Reason to Offer Any Savings for Symmetrical FiOS

It's the only game in town for just about anyone that can get it. Why offer any kind of discount for symmetrical service? Clearly their supply/demand research indicates that those desiring this service will pay full price for it without hesitation.

This also helps pave the way for future price increases with the bundled services and lower tiers.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest

Re: No Reason to Offer Any Savings for Symmetrical FiOS

Correct. And the more lockstep the lack-of-competition gets (IE the Telco and the CableCo) the more they can keep jacking it up.

Even on slower tiers.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
Oregonian2

join:2008-07-16
Beaverton, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·SpiritOne / Aracne..

said by jmn1207 See Profile :

It's the only game in town for just about anyone that can get it. Why offer any kind of discount for symmetrical service? Clearly their supply/demand research indicates that those desiring this service will pay full price for it without hesitation.
Don't think it has to do with that, nor that it's symmetrical (5/5 wouldn't be a problem). With B-PON which is almost all of their installed FiOS, the uplink would be oversubscribed if everybody in a single link (only 16 or 32 people) were 20 Mbps uplink (down it fits, the fiber is faster downwards). The uplink is only 155Mbps I recall, so even only 16 gives only 10Mbps per home upward . Assuming they are trying not to oversubscribe lines, if too many had 20Mbps upload speeds, they'd have to have fewer customers per main fiber which would cost them more. This is my WAG, but it at least seems reasonable until G-PON is more dominant (or if they start upgrading systems from B-PON to G-PON).

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS

Re: No Reason to Offer Any Savings for Symmetrical FiOS

It just seems from all the statistics being thrown around that not that many people are utilizing that kind of upload potential. But it has to be considered, and it definitely appears that Verizon does not want to show their FiOS product with a similar disadvantage as the typical cable infrastructure.
UofMiamiGrad
Premium
join:2001-02-03
Great Neck, NY

Glad I Signed 2-Year Agreement in Oct 2007!

FIOS became available in my building when the 20/20 was offered, I signed up for 2 years back in October of 2007. Glad I did considering this news!
mkunichi

join:2002-09-01
Hoboken, NJ

Re: Glad I Signed 2-Year Agreement in Oct 2007!

Hmm. Looks like I got in under the wire with my install last month as well. How long before my pricing increases and my package becomes unbundled? Looks like I might have to take a trip back to Cablevision after a year or so...

BTW, the door-to-door sales reps told me that the pricing they were quoting would last "forever". How do you think they're defining "forever"?
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: Glad I Signed 2-Year Agreement in Oct 2007!

Forever is just like unlimited. It is forever, until they change it to less.
Cogdis

join:2007-03-26
Floral Park, NY

What's the fios advantage then?

I thought the big plus with Fios was the upload. If they're gonna price the 20/20 out of the range of most customers (especially now), what reason is there to switch from cable?

See 6 replies to this post
blips

join:2001-04-17
Addison, IL

"Taxing the network"

"The rep I spoke with said it was to discourage the 20/20 tier as its taxing the network,"

Sounds like caps might be on their way.

See 21 replies to this post
roveer

join:2004-01-18
Mendham, NJ

20/20

I've got the 20/20 and wonder if I signed for 1 year or 2?

I have to say the 20 up is pretty cool. We send up 235 megs each night (online backup) and it takes 3 minutes. Just great!!!!

Market down
Costs up

Somethings gotta give!
halfelite

join:2007-09-11

doubt

I doubt the reason is the network. I know on my street alone out of 50+ houses only 2 people had fios. They see it as the people that want and will use 20/20 will pay the 70 a month for it. When i was still on cable my 10/5 was 70 bucks. So they are still the cheaper high speed option in my area.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY

Happy in a way...

So, what your saying, is you can get stand alone 20/20, and NOT subscribe to phone & tv, and get those services on the internet connection via 3rd parties?

Hmm, good idea.. though the 20/20 for $70/month is a little high.

See 8 replies to this post

DaMaGeINC
The Lan Man
Premium
join:2002-06-08
Greenville, SC
clubs:

With 20/20

Why would you need voice and tv? You have all the bandwidth you ever need to watch all the free tv and movies you want. And who needs phones at home anymore???
guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
·Verizon FIOS
·ViaTalk


edit:
October 8th, @03:50PM

Why Pots

Well, I had an unpleasant experience with VOIP ( read my history on ViaTalk review ). I got sick of having a maybe phone and went back to POTS over a year ago and have ZERO regrets in that choice. The discounted Verizon pots has been flawless, its unlimited and I don't have to baby sit it.

On Video, I'm locked into DTV for now and FIOS still appears to have teething issues, mostly with the DVR features and performance.

As for sitting in front of a PC for torrented TV, your not married I guess, I can only imagine the WAF telling her Oprah is now "on" ... that would go over as well as signing up for VOIP again

Oh, the cost difference is about 18 bucks, $5.00 for the 20/20 discount loss AND $10.00 loss on the POTS discount, tht what the bundle is/was ( plus taxes ), not 5 dollars as Karl mentioned
hottboiinnc
Kyle

join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH

Re: Why Pots

just because you had an issue with ViaTalk doesnt mean that all providers are that way. one bad review with one company shouldn't be taken out on all the rest of the providers.
pabster

join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA
·Mediacom

Whiners :)

Just be happy you can get 20/20. I know a few people who would kill for that connectivity even at a far higher price.

Bend over and pay. Ma Bell says so!
guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL

Re: Whiners :)

Yup, I had the exact same view BEFORE I could get FIOS, been waiting, watching here in BBR since the first reports of FIOS back in 2004.

It was more to have Karl highlight Verizon's change, not whether is was still a good value
majortom1029

join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY

lol

I thought verizons fios network was able to handle the upload speeds. I see that verizon seems to be having the same problems that cable companies are having.

With all this we are better then cable stuff in regards to verizon they seem to be doing the same things.
hang10

join:2002-11-03
Temecula, CA
·Verizon FIOS

Just switched

Click for full size
I switched last month to 20/20. Guess I made it under the wire.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

Re: lol

said by majortom1029 See Profile :

I thought verizons fios network was able to handle the upload speeds.
with GPON its not an issue. with BPON it is with only 155mbps upload to share among ONLY 32 users max. its less of an oversell than cable has.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
rmckofke

join:2001-05-15
Staten Island, NY

I'm scheduled to get the 20/20...

but I've actually been considering dropping to 20/5 and putting the $5 towards another STB before they get here to install anything. 20/20 sounded nice but I sat down and thought about it and realized I really didn't need to upload that much - as it is Im on TWC now and often I let torrents run overnight to maintain good ratios, and that's with a less than 1Mbit upload.

I guess it wont matter now.
dealing3000

join:2001-06-14
Chatham, NJ

Re: I'm scheduled to get the 20/20...

I had 20/20 for 6 months and decided at $70 it was just not worth it. I switched to Cablevision at 30/5 for $30 a month (for the first year) and I honeslty don't notice the upload difference.
VerizonGrl

join:2007-11-01
Coppell, TX

A clarification

Hi all. This is Bobbi Henson at Verizon. It's absolutely untrue that 20/20 FiOS Internet is "taxing our network." As I told Karl, we've simply streamlined our bundles to focus on our most popular services.

The fact that our fiber-to-the-home network supports incredible upstream speeds is the very reason why Verizon is the only major ISP to offer this kind of symmetrical service to consumers (and we offer it in all our FiOS markets, not just a few). All of this makes the service an incredible value at the current price.

guppy_fish, I've asked that a sales rep reach out to you to discuss what can be done about your situation, as I can certainly understand your unhappiness over how the timing of your upgrade request affected your ability to order the bundle.

See 6 replies to this post

jimbo48

join:2000-11-17
Hayward, CA
·EarthLink

Competition is needed - Please?

What would it take to get competition into the SF bay area and dislodge the strangle hold that AT&T/SBC (or whatever the telco is these days)and Comcast? You either have anemic DSL or questionable Cable, can't have Uverse Can't have Comcast powerboost ( I think its called)Verizon isn't here and won't be. Hopefully VerizonGirl can speak to the Marketing folks and make a lot of people a lot happier in SF Bay area! Ah but I do dream!!!
beaups

join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH

VerizonGrl

I'm certain that Verizon girl is a very high-level network engineer at verizon, and thus has full understanding of the network and whether or not the network is being taxed...lol

DeeplyShrouded

@comcast.net

Re: VerizonGrl

Is there a website that shows your planned market deployment?
I've been checking the availability website and it says FIOS
is not available in my area, but gives no indication of when
it will be.

--Deeply Shrouded & Quiet
--Central Control! D-Dial #49
VerizonGrl

join:2007-11-01
Coppell, TX

Re: VerizonGrl

said by DeeplyShrouded :

Is there a website that shows your planned market deployment?
I've been checking the availability website and it says FIOS
is not available in my area, but gives no indication of when
it will be.

--Deeply Shrouded & Quiet
--Central Control! D-Dial #49
DeeplyShrouded, there is no web site but if you send me your location information I'll check for you.

JokerCPoC

join:2005-11-21
Yermo, CA
·Verizon west (ex G..
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: VerizonGrl

said by VerizonGrl See Profile :

said by DeeplyShrouded :

Is there a website that shows your planned market deployment?
I've been checking the availability website and it says FiOS
is not available in my area, but gives no indication of when
it will be.

--Deeply Shrouded & Quiet
--Central Control! D-Dial #49
DeeplyShrouded, there is no web site but if you send me your location information I'll check for you.
What info do You need?

I'm in Yermo CA and getting Verizon DSL and yes I still have a Verizon landline phone.
--
Simple Nudity doesn't equal Sex or being Sexual in any way shape or form and is not obscene. It's the thoughts of the Religious Prude that's obscene and Ignorant as all Hell too.

DeeplyShrouded

@comcast.net
Hi VerizonGirl,
Thank you, I am in Kirkland, Washington.

--Deeply Shrouded & Quiet
--Central Control! D-Dial #49

HaloBox

join:2002-01-10

Just be sure you're actually getting 20/20

I had the 20/20 service (month-to-month) but the upload speed was never near 20. So I went back to the 20/5 plan.

Gordo74
Premium
join:2003-10-28
Monroeville, PA
clubs:

Assuming?

So if I have had the 20/20 for $57.99 since I signed up, I ASSUME this wont change until my 2 year cycle is up?
--
Ever wonder about the stars?
Gem66

join:2005-01-23
Jamaica, NY

Service done Proper...

I hope when I get my Fios (Internet), that I will not enounter such mishaps.
Forums » Symmetrical FiOS No Longer Qualifies For Bundle Discounts


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