Sonic Imposes Mandatory Modem Rental Fee for New Users New Users Must Now Pay $6.50 Modem Rental Fee Tipped by gergles 
A growing number of ISPs are eliminating the option to own your own mondem -- Charter Communications being the most recent. The reason is usually twofold: it provides the ISP with more consistency making troubleshooting easier, but it also allows them to charge an additional modem rental fee. Sonic.net has now joined the trend, the company announcing on their blog that as of this month, they've started giving their "Fusion" broadband users a ASDL2+ modem/router -- for an added charge of $6.50 per month. It's a mandatory device for new users, but existing users, for now, will be able to continue to use the modems they already own. Sonic CEO Dane Jasper justifies the shift in the blog's comment section bynoting that it makes support easier -- and that, well, everybody else is doing it: Regarding the rental fee, the rental of equipment with service has become quite common, and I believe it’s got some good benefits. The rental and the equipment supports the advance replacement of failed equipment, ongoing upgrades and overall integration of the equipment into the service. This facilitates more features and customer tools, plus ongoing upgrades (which might be software or hardware) when needed....it has become the industry norm to rent equipment alongside service, and to remain on a level competitive playing field, we must adapt. Both UVerse and Xfinity have equipment rental, at $6/mo and $7/mo respectively.
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  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Be Realistic quote:
The reason is usually twofold: it provides the ISP with more consistency making troubleshooting easier, but it also allows them to charge an additional modem rental fee.
Regarding your first point, I disagree. How big of an issue is it really with the thousands of different makes of standardized DSL or Cable modems out there already?
This is a rate hike, nothing more.
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Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge. | |
|  | | | Re: Be Realistic It is a pain in the ass to support the customers equipment. The problem is that the customer pretty much never will accept the idea that their problem is with their equipment. Even worse is that the more advanced the equipment ( Think Tomato, PFSense, etc.) the more difficult it is to get them to understand the problem is with their $200 setup and not the $100k+ router on our side.
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I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company. | |
| | |  newviewEx .. Ex .. ExactlyPremium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
kudos:1 | Re: Be Realistic said by battleop:It is a pain in the ass to support the customers equipment. If it's such a pain in the ass to support customer equipment, then supply the required modem free of charge instead of turning it into a revenue stream, "just because you can". | |
| | | | | | Re: Be Realistic I guess you missed where I didn't comment on the rental fee.... My comment is strictly related to customers expecting you to support 20323423 different combinations of equipment.
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I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company. | |
| | | | | newviewEx .. Ex .. ExactlyPremium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
kudos:1 | Re: Be Realistic said by battleop:I guess you missed where I didn't comment on the rental fee.... My comment is strictly related to customers expecting you to support 20323423 different combinations of equipment.
Then allow customers to BUY modems from the cable company ... and do NOT charge ridiculous 1000% markups. A required modem from the company is nothing but a damn additional FEE, no matter how you slice it. | |
| | | | | | | | Re: Be Realistic So again what's that go to do with my comment? | |
| | | | | | | newviewEx .. Ex .. ExactlyPremium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
kudos:1 | Re: Be Realistic Your comment, said by battleop:It is a pain in the ass to support the customers equipment. fails to elaborate that these are the VERY SAME modems that the ISP, in this case Sonic, approves of, and are the very same modems they distribute to customers who choose to rent, and not own. So in effect they are supporting those customer owned modems just by the fact that they are supporting their very own cableco modems. It costs them not a dime more when they push updated firmware to all modems of a particular model, no matter if it is customer or cableco owned.
So, "It is a pain in the ass to support the customers equipment." is bullshit and is just a way to increase fees "just because they can".
Again, if they want to reduce the cost of support, reduce the number of "approved" modems, GIVE them out as part of the ADVERTISED monthly fee and stop jerking your customers around with bogus fee increases. | |
| | | | | | | | | | Re: Be Realistic I really do not expect a reply but please show me where I approve of the fees? I am only commenting on the SUPPORT aspect of this not the fees.
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I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company. | |
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| | | | | | | the solution to the problem is easy. As with home wireless routers that you buy - they are NOT supported. use a modem that is NOT property of the ISP you don't get support. If they see you, well anything else is your problem until you use a modem supported by them. It's easy. | |
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| | | Reviews:
 ·PHONE POWER
| said by newview:said by battleop:It is a pain in the ass to support the customers equipment. If it's such a pain in the ass to support customer equipment, then supply the required modem free of charge instead of turning it into a revenue stream, "just because you can". OMG! You FN Brilliant bro  That is what I did at the local Charter office. I got the newest surfboard 2.0. If anything goes wrong with it in a year they swap it out. Just a money grab...
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I got the need for speed »bit.ly/topgunparody | |
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| | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by battleop:It is a pain in the ass to support the customers equipment. The problem is that the customer pretty much never will accept the idea that their problem is with their equipment. Even worse is that the more advanced the equipment ( Think Tomato, PFSense, etc.) the more difficult it is to get them to understand the problem is with their $200 setup and not the $100k+ router on our side.
Sorry I am not buying it. Besides, if the company owns the modem and people must pay to rent it, what do you think this is going to cause from a support perspective? Cue the "it's your modem, you get out here and fix it NOW" calls going up by an order of magnitude.
This is no different than the bad old days of Ma Bell requiring you to rent your phones from them.
Why not just call it what it is, a rate hike, and be done with it?
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Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge. | |
| | | | | | Re: Be Realistic The better solution is to just tell customers pay $6.50 and we support your modem. If you don't it's your equipment and you have to support your own equipment.
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I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company. | |
| | | | | | | Re: Be Realistic Exactly battleop. If you called AT&T for support you'd better be using their preferred equipment or you're on your own. That is a reasonable response and I'm disappointed in Sonic's stance. | |
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| |  MoracCat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
 ·Comcast
| said by battleop:It is a pain in the ass to support the customers equipment. The problem is that the customer pretty much never will accept the idea that their problem is with their equipment. Even worse is that the more advanced the equipment ( Think Tomato, PFSense, etc.) the more difficult it is to get them to understand the problem is with their $200 setup and not the $100k+ router on our side.
I've bought modems and I've been forced to rent one (back when I had voice service from Comcast). I've found that when renting modems, if you are having problems, the support people are much more likely to simply swap out the modem, even when the problem isn't caused by the modem.
For example, when I bought Comcast's voice service, they rented me a Motorola EMTA. Within about 2 weeks, the modem kept rebooting because of T3/T4 errors. They came and swapped the modem and left. The problems continued so they swapped it again (as well as replaced all the splitters) and left. The problems continued and they swapped it again (this time with an Arris EMTA). Again the problems continued. At this point I contacted Comcast corporate which apparently came down on my local unit so that the lead tech called me. While talking to him my modem rebooted again. He noticed all the modems in about a 5 block radius around me also rebooted. It turned out the problem was an upstream signal issue. No amount of modem swapping would have fixed that.
So while it can make support easier if the problem actually is the modem, in most cases it is not.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
| | | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Re: Be Realistic Agreed. Whenever I've had a problem, it has never been the modem. Only once has it been a premises issue. To fix that, they swapped out the pedestal tap from a 2-way to a 4-way and removed an improper splitter between me and one of my neighbors. They also ran a new drop. Problem solved. | |
| | | | | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| Re: Be Realistic said by rradina:Agreed. Whenever I've had a problem, it has never been the modem.
I have to say, one time I had a problem and it was the modem. Fortunately, it was the cableco-owned modem.
But this is a funny story. I dealt with ultra-slow upload speeds for three or more weeks. I kept calling, and they kept sending someone out. WOW's strategy is to start with the customer site and move backward into WOW's physical plant, one step at a time.
Each time they came out they replaced the cable modem, regardless. They also started rewiring and replacing connectors and whatnot. Finally one guy, before he re-wired my entire house and backyard to the tap, just made a hugely long wire and connected it straight from the tap to the cable modem--no change. Aha.
So they went straight to rewiring along the pole, changing out taps, etc. Over three weeks they chased this problem, each time with a new cable modem "just because," and nothing---
--until one tech happened to get the one guy at the NOC who had the bright idea to reflash the cable modem with the current setup, "just because".
Voila. That was it.
Yes, after multiple cable modems, that's all it took. I asked: how could it be that every cable modem that you brought was out of date/compliance with the current setup? There's no real good answer to that.
All's well that ends well, but three weeks and thousands of dollars could have been spared had someone thought up front simply to re-flash the damn hardware. So in the end, it wasn't *really* a modem issue after all, not in the way that people would think.
And had I had my own cable modem installed, the problem never would have come about. | |
| | | | | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Re: Be Realistic Are you sure they flashed it? Something smells really fishy if every cable modem they tried had problematic firmware.
I know this sounds unfriendly but I don't trust anyone. After having worked in IT for 25 years, far too often folks troubleshoot by changing more than one thing at a time. Once it's fixed, they don't have a clue as to which change actually fixed the problem. | |
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| | | | balur
join:2010-04-28
kudos:1 | Working in DSL support.
90% of problems are caused by the modems, either them going back or a configuration problem, and mailing a modem is much easier then rolling a truck.
So it is usually the first go to for support. | |
| | | | | |  Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Re: Be Realistic said by balur:Working in DSL support. The only issue I had with DSL is with CenturyLink. I had a Cisco 678 from 5 years ago (when we had Qwest).
The tech support is from India (yes, they forgot to hang up and I heard the conversation between the co-workers). Not to mention, they didn't know the difference between PPPoA and PPPoE.. which is a massive FAIL to me. I even told them I was an advanced user.
Needless to say, I found out they converted from PPPoA to PPPoE, rendering my little Cisco 678 useless as a router. It still works fine as a terminal with my main router connecting using PPPoE.
I did switch to an Actiontec M1000 using PPPoE. It works decent and it supports a few newer technologies. I still keep my Cisco for backup purposes in case the Actiontec dies.
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Bresnan 30M/5M | CenturyLink 5M/896K
MyWS[PnmIIX3@3.3G,8G RAM,500G+1.5T+2T HDDs,Win7]
WifeWS[A64@2G,2G RAM,120G HDD,Win7]
Router[2xP3@1G,2G RAM,18G HDD,Allied Telesyn AT2560FX,2xDigital DE504,Sun X1034A,2xSun X4444A,SMC 8432BTA,Gentoo] | |
| | | | | | | balur
join:2010-04-28
kudos:1 | Re: Be Realistic said by Simba7:I even told them I was an advanced user. Just a tip when dealing with support, NEVER do this. 99% of people who tell us how much they know, know very little about relevent info. When you tell a support person that you know a lot or that you have qualifications they sigh and think "Ugh its going to be one of those calls" as most those calls are negative and the callers are obstructionist.
Work with support, give them nudges if you think they are on the wrong track, if they are competent they will realize that you are too, if they aren't then they probably aren't going to leave there flowcharts anyways. | |
| | | | | | | | Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Re: Be Realistic said by balur:said by Simba7:I even told them I was an advanced user. Just a tip when dealing with support, NEVER do this. 99% of people who tell us how much they know, know very little about relevent info. Depends. If you tell them you're an advanced user, they'll usually switch to a Tier2 or Tier3 instead of wasting their time with confusing technical jargon that they'll never understand.
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Bresnan 30M/5M | CenturyLink 5M/896K
MyWS[PnmIIX3@3.3G,8G RAM,500G+1.5T+2T HDDs,Win7]
WifeWS[A64@2G,2G RAM,120G HDD,Win7]
Router[2xP3@1G,2G RAM,18G HDD,Allied Telesyn AT2560FX,2xDigital DE504,Sun X1034A,2xSun X4444A,SMC 8432BTA,Gentoo] | |
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| | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | If it's such a pain in the ass, won't elimination of support costs pay for new modems? | |
| | | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| said by battleop:It is a pain in the ass to support the customers equipment. The problem is that the customer pretty much never will accept the idea that their problem is with their equipment. Even worse is that the more advanced the equipment ( Think Tomato, PFSense, etc.) the more difficult it is to get them to understand the problem is with their $200 setup and not the $100k+ router on our side.
on the other hand, as WOW Dan found out in my circumstance, the problem *was* on their end. After my putting up with it for some weeks, he discovered some problems on their end.
That being said, he found that out only after I went and got a WOW cable modem that he could get more information from. I'm going to hold onto it for a month while I confirm that my own unit indeed is working properly with the infrastructure problem now fixed, and then I'll take it back. Easy peasy.
In the middle of all this comes the realization in the WOW community that their cable modems are stuck at no higher than 1.79Mbps upload speeds--regardless of the package the customer is paying for. We've made a bunch of noise and WOW Dan has confirmed this for a certain brand/model of the WOW supplied modems. Contrast this with my Surfboard 6120, which does not have this limitation.
So, forcing the customer to put up with the cableco supplied stuff--acquired as cheaply as possible--also forces the customer to put up with whatever limitations the cableco chooses to live with in this regard. I'm paying for 15/2 service, and in WOW's world "1.79 is within our tolerance level". I guess I'd have to pony up to pay for 15/5 and report that 1.79 upload speed before WOW would bother to do anything.
Hmmmm, I may just do that.....
But what WOW would do instead of fixing things is simply give me the other cable modem they have some of, the DOCSIS 3.0 model that doesn't exhibit this behavior. This would leave the 15/2 customers not getting what they're paying for.
In the end, the customer loses no matter what. Cableco wants his cable modem for his own purposes, then refuses to fix deficiencies in his cable modem and won't let me get my own. Cableco wins every time, customer loses every time. | |
| | | Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
 ·Verizon FiOS
·voip.ms
| The reason why is because customer support in the absence of true diagnostics, always blames what is easiest-- the customer. I had it happen twice to me when I was w/ TWC.
My CM was sporadic and of course this would be after big rains or snow storms. Hmm, it must be the CM. I argued the fact because I used to keep a list of S/N ratios from a screen grabber program just because... Once I called them out they sent techs. In any case in both instances it was caused by the sub of a sub contractor laying bad cable from the equalizer/tap (no more than 40 feet from my prem) to my CPE. In one case the core was folded over. I'm amazed it even worked. In both cases an actual TWC employee came out and fixed it. I have found the TWC employess vastly superior to subs in equipment, knowledge, and professionalism. If you are going to use subs, the need to have TQ standards....
Almost every industry has to deal with variance, and with that comes higher support costs. Using the methodology that forcing everyone to rent (a la Bell in the old days) - this would LOWER support costs dramatically so in fact those cost should be passed on to the consumer.
Considering a cable modem costs $50 or less to the supplier ( and probably they have a depot so swap costs are nill), charging $6 a month is pure highway robbery.
The whole idea for company modems is to put software/firmware on them for remote diagnostics which can be done anywhere, cheaply.
Calling a tech onsite is the last step.
So assuming support costs the ROI for these guys is somewhere around 12 months. Assuming the average CM life of 36 months (now that DS3 has settled in), this is easily a 200% return on capital, which is unheard of.
TWC charges $2.50 in my area which is close to a 0% ROC, which means they are not gouging the customer for said device.
Considering it costs about $4 to provide service, if you add that to the $2.50 modem cost these guys are profitable the second you make the call to sign up for service  | |
| | | Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | said by battleop:Even worse is that the more advanced the equipment ( Think Tomato, PFSense, etc.) the more difficult it is to get them to understand the problem is with their $200 setup and not the $100k+ router on our side. If they're running pfSense or Tomato, they'd better know their stuff.
It's like a consumer buying a Cisco router and not knowing a darn thing about it.. except it allows them to get on the Internet.
If I have any issues and need to call tech support, there's usually an issue with the line, their router, CMTS (or DSLAM), or one of their servers went down.
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Bresnan 30M/5M | CenturyLink 5M/896K
MyWS[PnmIIX3@3.3G,8G RAM,500G+1.5T+2T HDDs,Win7]
WifeWS[A64@2G,2G RAM,120G HDD,Win7]
Router[2xP3@1G,2G RAM,18G HDD,Allied Telesyn AT2560FX,2xDigital DE504,Sun X1034A,2xSun X4444A,SMC 8432BTA,Gentoo] | |
| | | | | | Re: Be Realistic 'they'd better know their stuff."
You would think that but this is more often not the case (at least when they make it to my group). It's usually not the equipment but a misconfiguration on their equipment. Usually the first clue that they really don't know their stuff is if they spend the first 5 minutes of the call telling you how qualified they are. Nine time out of ten if you have to tell me how qualified you are, you probably are not.
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I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company. | |
| | | | | Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Re: Be Realistic said by battleop:Usually the first clue that they really don't know their stuff is if they spend the first 5 minutes of the call telling you how qualified they are. Nine time out of ten if you have to tell me how qualified you are, you probably are not. Ya. I hear that from my friends that work at Optimum. I usually talk to the T2's because I lose the T1's at the first set of questions. It's rare I find a T1 that can speak geek.
..of course I also know a Network Engineer at Optimum (aka. Bresnan).
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Bresnan 30M/5M | CenturyLink 5M/896K
MyWS[PnmIIX3@3.3G,8G RAM,500G+1.5T+2T HDDs,Win7]
WifeWS[A64@2G,2G RAM,120G HDD,Win7]
Router[2xP3@1G,2G RAM,18G HDD,Allied Telesyn AT2560FX,2xDigital DE504,Sun X1034A,2xSun X4444A,SMC 8432BTA,Gentoo] | |
| | | | | | | | Re: Be Realistic We don't have anyone who is really T1 or T2 unless you count non technical customer service employees. If you talk to someone technical with us you start with T3 but then again we will not handle residential customers which in it self knocks out 80% of your support issues.
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I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company. | |
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| | tcopePremium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2 | Yup, as mentioned... if it's the customers modem then you simply connect your ownm, show them that it's working just fine and ask them if they want you to leave it for a monthly fee.
Truth is, it's probably usually not the customers modem that is the problem and if it were, simply show them this and they can get another one or rent from the provider if they want. No... the REAL reason for the month rental fee is that it serves only to generate a TON of free money for the provider. It's like selling a car and charging extra to rent tires. | |
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|  RR ConductorNWP RR Inc.,serving NW CAPremium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
kudos:1 | I am glad Comcast isn't doing this, in fact they seem pretty willing to help customers with their own equipment. | |
| | | | | Re: Be Realistic I hope you know Xfinity is Comcast so comcast is doing this fee so you probably want to edit your comment on that one. | |
| | | | | | | | MoracCat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1 | And Comcast's fee is actually higher ($7). | |
| | | | | | said by treichhart:I hope you know Xfinity is Comcast so comcast is doing this fee so you probably want to edit your comment on that one.
Huh?! I've had my own modem with Comcast (Xfinity is just a brand name) for 10 years and there it NO fee. | |
| | | | | Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Be Realistic said by voiptalk:said by treichhart:I hope you know Xfinity is Comcast so comcast is doing this fee so you probably want to edit your comment on that one.
Huh?! I've had my own modem with Comcast (Xfinity is just a brand name) for 10 years and there it NO fee. Do you have Xfinity Voice?
I do. I have two modems. The one for voice I pay for monthly, the one for data there is no charge. I could run my internet off the voice modem but I would have to run a new CAT5 cable and I just don't want to go to the effort when there is no benefit.
Apparently Comcast monitors the voice modems as I received a new battery in the mail because my modem was indicating the battery was failing. | |
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| | | I see it a bit different , it seems like most companies are using it not as a rate hike but a way to pay for upgrades to the network, without it coming out of the "profit" coffer. Either way it's creative accounting at best. And this is what we get for allowing all our brains to go into accounting and money management instead of the sciences like we used to.
We did it to ourselves people.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
| | balur
join:2010-04-28
kudos:1 | As someone who comes from Internet Support, its a pain in the ass. Most of our customers had our equipment and even then there was a lot of diversity which would trip up agents....
Then we'd get someone with a hand me down modem that we didn't even know the specs for let alone what the interface was like, and they wouldn't know how to even log into it.
This is also why we refused to support routers too many variables. Were sure it will work but if theres a problem direct connection and test. | |
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| | Uh Ohhh..... Dane must have been late on this month's payment. | |
| | | | |  spewakR.I.P DadkinsPremium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
kudos:1
 ·SureWest Internet
| Re: Uh Ohhh..... said by Linklist:Yes, Dane has been the darling of Karl's editorials. I thought the editorial would have been more critical of this anti-competitive step instead of just giving out the info of the change. Are you kidding? Karl slammed him:
Sonic CEO Dane Jasper justifies the shift in the blog's comment section bynoting that it makes support easier -- and that, well, everybody else is doing it: 
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Romney equals Epic Fail! | |
| | | | | | Re: Uh Ohhh..... that is the point of the comment that Dane is late on his monthly payment to Karl. Why else do some companies get better treatment then others? Those companies PAY. Why do you think Google never really has any horrible "stories" on here. THEY PAY Karl's mortgage payment. | |
| | | | | | | Re: Uh Ohhh..... Some of you guys here REALLY need hobbies. | |
|
 KilroyPremium,MVM
join:2002-11-21
Ann Arbor, MI | When you don't have a choice, it isn't a fee If you can't provide your own modem, it is now part of the price of the service. Sorry, there isn't any other way to see it. If that is the case, why not advertise $.99 Internet. Then once they sign up hit them with a $100 a month modem rental fee. Nothing more than more of the same.
I'd love to see a law where you must advertise the cost of service, additional fees, and normal taxes to get around these fees being tacked on in order for them to advertise a much lower rate. Nothing like thinking you're getting $50 Internet only to find on on your first bill that it really cost $75 after tax, title, and destination fees.
--
Want the shirt? - »www.despair.com/thedestructor.html
Not afiliated or making any profit from sales | |
| | | | Re: When you don't have a choice, it isn't a fee My sentiments exactly... It would be nice if they had it in plan/law similar to purchasing an airline ticket now a days where all fees and charges are UP front and in detail before you actually hit the purchase button. | |
| |  BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | said by Kilroy:If you can't provide your own modem, it is now part of the price of the service. Sorry, there isn't any other way to see it. If that is the case, why not advertise $.99 Internet. Then once they sign up hit them with a $100 a month modem rental fee. Nothing more than more of the same.
I'd love to see a law where you must advertise the cost of service, additional fees, and normal taxes to get around these fees being tacked on in order for them to advertise a much lower rate. Nothing like thinking you're getting $50 Internet only to find on on your first bill that it really cost $75 after tax, title, and destination fees.
WRONG
Charter old pricing.
$58 30 meg tier, modem rental $7. total $65
new pricing
$50 30 meg tier, modem rental $0. Total cost $50.
How anyone is thinking they are getting "fucked" over is just stupid thinking. You're saving $15 a month. | |
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kaila
join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL | With Comcast at least..... you have the option (and it's a smart one) to buy/bring your own modem and skip that $7mo rental fee. Not sure about U-Verse.
Dane- If it's a 'service' issue, just lock down which modems users can bring to the network. If it's a $ thing, be honest and just raise the advertised price of service.
--
Jeff Howe
Jeff's Blog - »www.ostjournal.net | |
| | MoracCat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: With Comcast at least..... Comcast only gives you a choice if you don't have their voice service, otherwise they force you to rent a modem (EMTA).
I read recently that Comcast would allow you to provide your own EMTA, but when a friend of mine tried to sign up for voice online, it said a rental was required and automatically added the $7 charge to his "cart". He decided to not go with Comcast voice because of that.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
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| | This better not spread.... like wildfire to others, comcast don't be stupid and do this! Hopefully a lawsuit rolls in and puts an end to this BS. | |
| | | | Re: This better not spread.... Charge for modem rental? They already do.
Let's face it, this affects maybe 1% of customers. Most internet subscribers can't honestly tell the difference between a modem and a box of cereal. | |
| | | bn1221
join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY | Re: This better not spread.... Well they are both crunchy. I am pretty sure most people don't pour milk on their modems. Everyone knows you need coffee to properly fry a modem | |
| | | Reviews:
·Callcentric
·Comcast
| said by osravens:Charge for modem rental? They already do.
Let's face it, this affects maybe 1% of customers. Most internet subscribers can't honestly tell the difference between a modem and a box of cereal.
No, I meant not allowing to Bring your own, where they force there own on you and have to pay monthly. | |
| | | | | | Re: This better not spread.... It is permitted with Voice. They ensure it operates and it is supported to its fullest. They can't be out supporting every EMTA that would pop up on the market from China or Mexico for $50.
And you really think a lawsuit would change this? Why sue for something stupid; you know up front that it's required; choose not to go with them if you don't like it. And if you want regulation over it; another waste of time and money that the tax payers would have to spend out. | |
| | | | | Reviews:
·Callcentric
·Comcast
| Re: This better not spread.... said by 25139889:It is permitted with Voice. They ensure it operates and it is supported to its fullest. They can't be out supporting every EMTA that would pop up on the market from China or Mexico for $50.
And you really think a lawsuit would change this? Why sue for something stupid; you know up front that it's required; choose not to go with them if you don't like it. And if you want regulation over it; another waste of time and money that the tax payers would have to spend out.
Ok, Not if, but when comcast catches this new disease im suppose to welcome it!? You must be kidding. | |
|
 ZaberWhen all are gone, there shall be none
join:2000-06-08
Cleveland, OH | Backwards Isn't great how we are going backwards and calling it progress? At one time every telephone connected into the phone company must be owned by the phone company, they even stated the same reasons for requiring this. If a customer chooses to use his own CPE why exactly should he not be allowed? I am not saying that the ISP should be required to support the customer's equipment, just that the customer should have a choice. Of course then both parties need to be competent with the equipment on their own side.
--
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he will feed himself for a lifetime | |
|  plencnerbPremium
join:2000-09-25
Elgin, IL
kudos:2 | I have no problem renting the modem Over the years, I have had the following ISP's in this order
@Home
Comcast
Time Warner Cable
Comcast
In all the cases, I rented my cable modem from them. I know the price has not always been the same, and I know that over the course of time, I probably spent enough money to own my own.
However, if you look at the ISP's that I listed, they changed a few times as I moved. Sure, the @home to Comcast was just a change in name, but when I moved from Illinois to Wisconsin, I had to switch from Comcast to Time Warner. Then, I moved back to Illinois and switched from Time Warner back to Comcast.
Instead of taking the chance that my purchased modem would work, it was just easier for me to rent.
Not to mention that if anything goes wrong with it, its less work to swap it out for another, as its not mine.
A really good example of this is what I went through a few months back. Prior to May of 2012, I had only HSI and Cable TV from Comcast, and was renting a Scientific Atlanta modem, Model # DPC2100R2. Since I was renting, I went down to the local Comcast Office, gave them my old modem, and they gave me a Thomson Internet Voice Modem, Model # DHG536.
A few weeks go by, and I find out that the batteries in it are bad. So, I go back down to the local office with the modem, explain the problem, and in no time, I'm on my way back home with a new modem. This time its an Arris, Model: TM402P.
If I instead had purchased my own modem prior to me adding Comcast Digital Voice, I would have had to try to find a place that sells an eMTA modem that Comcast would support when I made the switch. Not to mention what the heck do I do with my old old modem? Then, when I had the problem with the batteries, I would have had to try to either contact the place I purchased it, or the manufacturer directly to solve the problem, or return it and purchase a new one. Depending on where it was purchased, that could be a hassle (may have to ship it back which could cost money, drive back to the store, etc). Worst case is I would have had to purchase a 3rd modem, which would mean I then had 2 modems that I would have no idea what to do with.
I don't know about you, but that seems like a lot of extra work. In my case, it was so much easier to drive less then 2 miles to my local office, tell them the issue, and swap it out in no time flat.
Finally, if for whatever reason the modem I have is no longer supported on their network, they will swap it out for one that is. I don't have to try to keep up on standards, what works best, what does not work, and so on. Not to mention firmware updates to the device. Its on them to keep track of all that. I don't have to try to figure out if the new firmware is supported or not, and if I don't do that research, and it turns out that the firmware is not supported, then I have a dead cable modem, and may have to go through a lot of steps to get things working (roll back firmware, or worse yet, BUY YET ANOTHER modem). None of these are things I have to worry about, which makes my life a whole lot easier.
Again, people may have a different view here, but I have no problem paying $7 a month for my modem, knowing that if anything goes wrong, needs to be fixed, upgraded or replaced, its on the ISP to do so.
---Brian | |
| | | | Re: I have no problem renting the modem I used a M1000 modem from Qwest for around 6 or 7 years. The modem cost about 70 dollars with WIFI adapter. At six bucks a month for rental, I would have paid 432 dollars. For that amount, I could have purchased 6 modems. If your planning on using a service more then a year, its always a complete, total waste of money to rent.
Just over a year ago, I upgraded my modem again with Centurylink, a PK5000. That modem has just about already paid for itself and I'm money in the bank again. You have to think long term to realize the savings to purchasing over renting. The savings over time are nothing less then huge. Its a no brainer. | |
| | | | | Re: I have no problem renting the modem depends on if you look at the fail rate on things now days. Things are NOT made to last like they used to be. They're made to be thrown away in a year or two. Why do you think its cheaper to replace something when it breaks then repair it?
Id still rent the modem over buying it in terms of fail rate and the ISP HAS to support it ad not give the BS of "sorry but we can see you and that's all we can do unless you use our modem". | |
|
| | Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Over the years these rental fees really add up! said by Mr Matt:I have saved about $730.00 over the ten years. Not a trifling sum. That is $73.00 a year, $6.00 a month, $0.20 a day. You could get back that much, and more, by using coupons, dropping that soda a day, smoking one less cigarette, by driving 3 or 4 fewer miles. Yes, it is a trifling sum. Especially if the modem breaks.
In my mind the trivial cost per day is worth it to put issues back into the hands of the ISP. It is never a urinating contest to find a problem. If internet does not work the ISP owns the problem. | |
|
spewakR.I.P DadkinsPremium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
kudos:1 | Airline model pricing Looks like the ISP's are starting to use the Airline pricing model>nickel and dime your customers to death! 
--
Romney equals Epic Fail! | |
| | | | Re: Airline model pricing said by spewak:Looks like the ISP's are starting to use the Airline pricing model>nickel and dime your customers to death!
This is a money grab. I purchased my modem from Centurylink to avoid the rental fee. Why can't Sonic offer that option? At $6.50 a month you would have paid for it in less then two years. Depending on the modem, maybe just over a year. After that, it's all profit for Sonic. | |
| | |
1 edit | Hmm.. Sonic.net would not have been the company I would have predicted would do this. Kind of low. | |
| | | | | | Re: Hmm.. amen to that. Was happy with Sonic and switched to them simply because of some key factors. Their pricing, customer support, and their way of not being on one of the BIG guys by doing things differently.
All good things come to an end when they eventually become big. As with any small players, they will do what it takes to get big. However, as they grow, things will become worst.
I was happy with the service since signup 6 months ago and did the switch for 4 other members of the family. Now, I might consider switching back when I do not see much benefits if they starting charging rediculous fees. $75 x 3 yrs service = $225 while the price of a modem is $50. It's not often these modem go bad....don't want to hear any more excuses from these ISPs.
The people I referred may hate me for the recent switch now that sonic is charging these bogus fees. The point is, Sonic shouldnt be nickel and dimes like the rest just because they are doing it. They differentiate and got loyal customers for being different. Now they are starting to look into way to slowly screw their customers over. bad bad bad....I may have to look into another alternative until Sonic revert the changes. | |
|
| | | pass a law If you do not like it, contact your state congressman (more likely to pass at state level) and tell them to draft legislation banning these fees. This is the whole point of our government. | |
| | | | Re: pass a law Unless you're a telecom lobbyist, you're not getting any laws passed. | |
| | | | | Re: pass a law Not you alone, no, but 1,000 people or so may have a wee bit more weight than a telecom lobbyist. If that doesn't work, those 1,000 people could easily elect a congressman or senator that's more agreeable.
Don't be discouraged by the "it's useless unless you're a lobbyist" talk. Call anyway, and if enough other people are not scared you just might be 999 (or 99,999) more of you! | |
|
| | The little guy wins again. My ISP charges $2.50 for 10 months for the modem rental fee. | |
| |  djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:1 | Re: The little guy wins again. What's disappointing is that Dane is the little guy in this case. | |
|
elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Dane Strikes Out? While hero Dane gets lots of kudos for actually innovating product and staying in business while everyone else faded away, he's starting to mimic the so-called monopolistic corporate entities he's railed against for a decade.
His last mandate, late last fall, required Fusion customers to buy dialtone, although he'll call it simplifying the product line. Coincidentally, AT&T requires the same of DSL resale customers, and Verizon just issued the same order. The wet-line requirement adds $10-12/month in taxes to basic Fusion, and $25 to the bonded version. Now we're to pay another $7/month, because some other companies charge equipment fees? No, thanks.
I've always been ok with paying a substantial premium for Sonic.Net, given their accessible customer service and independent status. But as time goes by, the offering is getting worse, not better, and yet, we're being told that its for our own good. Those of us at the far end of the copper are paying full rack rate for 10% of the advertised performance level, and the previously mentioned so-20th-century tax gouge as well.
Our local cable companies don't charge for their modem (though Charter is starting to get confused), and they do same-day swaps over-the-counter at the billing office - no three-day wait for for diagnosis, approval, shipping and the fedex guy. With nominal annual negotiation efforts, they charge $30 a month for 12-40x Sonic's delivered speed, with no niggling fees, below-the-line charges, or taxes for unwanted and unused services.
While only Mr. Jasper knows his customer base, both demo- and geographically, in my opinion, to remain competitive on grounds beyond the fading small-town appeal, Fusion needs to be sold in a dry-loop, bonded configuration, with a purchase option for the CPE. | |
| | Chele
join:2003-07-23
kudos:1 | Re: Dane Strikes Out? I'm with Battleop, I too, own an ISP and can tell you it is a pain to support customers' equipment. We recommend just two brands for the customers to buy. We will walk a customer through basic settings over the phone if they have one of the brands we recommend, otherwise, we just give the customers the parameters they need and they are on their own to program the router. We don't sell or rent routers. Our tech support calls went down about 90% after we stopped selling the routers as a convenience, we marked them up a bit but it just wasn't/isn't worth the added hassle. | |
| | |  tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3
·Comcast
| Re: Dane Strikes Out? said by Chele:I'm with Battleop, I too, own an ISP and can tell you it is a pain to support customers' equipment. And I bet part of that is the (understandable to some degree) mindset of customers, that NOTHING could possibly be wrong with THEIR garage sale modem, still smoking from the lightning strike... Just as some ISP's who allow customer owned often insist it MUST be your modem.
Neither end wanting to accept possible failure of any equipment any time makes a simple over the phone first stage of troubleshooting, far more difficult than it should be. | |
| | | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Re: Dane Strikes Out? said by tshirt: And I bet part of that is the (understandable to some degree) mindset of customers, that NOTHING could possibly be wrong with THEIR garage sale modem, still smoking from the lightning strike... Just as some ISP's who allow customer owned often insist it MUST be your modem.
Neither end wanting to accept possible failure of any equipment any time makes a simple over the phone first stage of troubleshooting, far more difficult than it should be.
Ironically, I bought the $5 garage-sale modem for the new Sonic line after a lightning strike smoked/melted the NID and the NIC, the filter, the inside wiring and the RJ45 jack. Somehow the desktop was unharmed. This, in a place where "it never rains", at least according to Mr. Hammond. It was an amusing week, with a brigade of bucket trucks.
I believe that Dane, you and Battlepro are correct, that customer service works best overall when the ISP controls the modem inventory. But that shouldn't preclude a purchase option. I'd rather have a hot-spare on site, ready to swap in and disprove the ISP's incompetech notions, and save 3-8 days' worth of misery, than wait for Sonic's "advance replacement" to arrive and not work. | |
|
houghe9
join:2008-02-27
Lexington Park, MD | please please please let us as consumers put a stop to this garbage.
in the 90s i opened a bank of america acount. at that time they offered a lower monthly fee if you agreed to use the atm for all of your transactions and you had 2 in office visits a month.
i was happy i never went in the bank anyway. fast forward about 2 or 3 years banks began to charge atm fees for using atms that were not supplied by your bank.
only a few people seemed to catch on to what wass happening but by using the atm and no teller visits the banks did not need as many cashiers. makes sense heck of a lot cheaper no longer having to provide benefits fewer hassles over all.
then the atm charges began and all of the banks were crying about how much it costs to service all of those atms which was a fraction of what they saved on laying people off. computer networks got better phone calls were cheaper and now the atms saved more money and at the same time customers were getting raped. these kind of changes are starting to become common. we as consumers really need to start putting a stop to these things.
just like making people use the provided modem it makes sense it can greatly increase customer satisfaction over all problems get dealt with faster need less tech support people and lowers the qualifications of the ones they do have. but then they turn around and charge extra for the modem when it was a complete win for both sides they pull this garbage and cry that it costs money to provide support....
could have gone this way:
sonic is going to change a few things that will hopefully bennefit the customer and allow us to provide the best possible support. we will no longer allow 3rd party modems on our network due to inconsistant hardware and difficulties in providing a solid customer experience. by moving everyone to the same hardware it will allow us locate problems that affect multiple users faster and can prevent numerous tech support calls. this decision will benefit everyone with service.
while there will be a new modem rental fee attatched we will be lowering it to help with the transition. we hope that increased quality of service and customer support will increase as we implement this new change.
instead we get the shakedown...
dear customer it was brought to our attention that you seem to be carrying more change in your pockets and because of skinny jeans we know about the 2quarters and 1 dime you are smuggling. from this point on you will give us all and i mean all of your lunch money. dont ever try to hold out on us again. thanks you for being a great customer have a nice day! | |
| | | modem fee You are all skipping over the fact that some customers will be getting something extra from the forced modem rental... Roaches may be part of the offering that you recieve from your isp. | |
| | | The fee is not the problem, lack of configurability is I got Comcast business class internet recently (which I like, BTW -- my old AT&T DSL was getting to where I couldn't watch a stutter-free Youtube video, yet speed tests still showed everything to be OK). The tech gave me a rental modem/router, an SMC8013 or 8014 or some such, as they will only provision their own equipment for business class.
Now I've run my own router for 15 years, as a learning exercise first, but later for the flexibility and power that doing so gives me. So I logged into their modem/router, trying to put it in bridge mode. No option for that. Best I can do is "DMZ" mode -- sort of a 1-1 NAT, so their modem is still processing packets at layer 3. I get on the forums here and read that Comcast will not put business-class modems into bridge mode. I immediately bought a Motorola SB6121, activated it online, and returned the SMC.
I subsequently find out two other things. First, the SMC was not even a DOCSIS 3 modem, which I though odd, as I was under the impression that the bandwidth utilization improvements in that revision of the standard actually benefit the cable provider, as well as increasing maximum speeds. A side effect of my using the DOCSIS 3 Motorola was that my download speeds on speed tests went up by about 50% (to be fair, I was getting better than my advertised bandwidth even with the SMC).
Second, I came across a thread here discussing how Comcast had accidentally enabled proxy arp on some of their business-class customers' modems. This wouldn't have affected me, with my separate router, but for those customers that relied on Comcast's router for their firewalling (and Comcast certainly advertises the service to promote that), this had some security implications. What else might they accidentally do?
In short, if Comcast had given me a SB6121 or something similar in the first place, I probably would have just rented it from them. But since their hardware wouldn't do what I wanted, and it was older technology, I decided to go my own route.
One thing Mr. Jasper fails to mention in his statement is that Comcast at least gives customers the BYOD option, even with business class (if you don't have a static IP). I haven't had to call Comcast for support yet, so I don't know how they'll respond, but I can borrow another Motorola if they suspect mine is at fault. | |
| | plencnerbPremium
join:2000-09-25
Elgin, IL
kudos:2 | Re: The fee is not the problem, lack of configurability is While I do see the "Lack of configurability" being an issue in a Modem / Router (or Modem / Gateway) device, what really can one configure on just a plan Cable Modem?
When I go to the any of the modem's that I have rented configuration pages, (192.168.0.1) there was not a setting that I could change. It was all information.
So, outside of the cost of renting each month, and one paying more over time for the actual unit, what benefit is there to purchasing your own modem? If there is nothing on the actual modem that you can modify, then what is the benefit?
--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner
E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail | |
| | | | | Re: The fee is not the problem, lack of configurability is said by plencnerb:While I do see the "Lack of configurability" being an issue in a Modem / Router (or Modem / Gateway) device, what really can one configure on just a plan Cable Modem? That's just it. While the SB6121 is a plain modem, the SMC (POS) is a Router/Gateway combo. Running a service on your business connection (such as a VPN) that needs to know what your public IP is? Sorry, you're SOL with the SMC, it is not capable of handing the public IP to your equipment. Back when I had to deal with this BS, BYOD was not an option
/M | |
| | | | | | Re: The fee is not the problem, lack of configurability is Mackey beat me to it
The SMC was indeed a modem/router combo, and the SB6121 merely a modem (but a very good one, with a businesslike metal case, unlike the cheap-feeling consumer-y SMC). And aside from the fine-grained tweaking that my router can do (and most consumer/SMB commercial products cannot), the lack of the ability for my internal equipment to know its external IP does cause problems, with VPNs as well as private servers that I run for myself. At least Comcast still gives its users real IPv4 addresses, something I likely would have lost had I stayed with AT&T.
Also, the SMC was widely acknowledged as a PoS One more reason to ditch it. | |
| | | | | plencnerbPremium
join:2000-09-25
Elgin, IL
kudos:2 | Re: The fee is not the problem, lack of configurability is Ok, I still don't see (unless I'm missing it), an answer to my question: What advantages does one have with the purchase of their own modem, compared to one that is leased?
There are two things that I do understand as being an advantage. I'm asking if there are others.
First is saving money. For example, lets make the assumption that I can lease without any problems from my ISP the Motorola SURFboard SB5101 Cable Modem. I can also buy it brand new from Best Buy for $59.99 (Link here ---> »www.bestbuy.com/site/Motorola+-+···p=1&lp=1). If I rent it and have it for 24 months at cost of $7 per month, I would end up spending $168 in rental charges. That is more then twice the cost of the modem from Best Buy. So, saving money is Advantage #1.
Next, if the modem that is being rented is a Combo device (Modem / Router, or Modem / Wireless Gateway), I do get that the ISP may lock down certain configurations from being changed. But, (correct me if I'm wrong), those configurations are on the Router / Wireless Gateway side of things, not the modem. So, being able to configure the Router / Wireless Gateway fully on a combo device is Advantage #2.
For me, I would never rent a Combo device, as I have my own router. As far as the price issue goes, I do not mind spending $7 (or whatever the modem rental fee is for a given ISP), knowing that its their hardware, and if anything goes wrong with it, its on the ISP to fix it.
So, above and beyond those two points listed above, what else does one "gain"? I've rented all my modems from my ISP, and the only thing I could do with them is go to the modem's configuration page at 192.168.100.1, but nothing there is changeable...its all read-only information.
Now I do want to point out that I am not against those who want to purchase their own modem, to avoid the two points I made above (save $ and be able to modify the configurations on a Combo Device). Giving the customer the choice (rent or buy) is a good thing. What I want to try to verify is what else one "gains" for a standard modem, like the SB5101, if you choose to purchase it instead of renting it from your ISP.
Thanks,
--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner
E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail | |
| | | | | | Reviews:
·VOIPo
·wavebroadband
| Re: The fee is not the problem, lack of configurability is In my case my savings so far (owning over rental) is over $600.00...
I went to "Good Guys" and found a Motorola SB4000 series there that had both a factory rebate and an ISP (Charter) rebate that made the modem effectively free. (My parents still use this modem to this day.)
My next modem was given to me by someone on Comcast forced into the SMC modem when he went to a commercial account.
The modem I run now is a Zoom Docsis 3 that is the first modem Ive ever actually paid for...
Being that Ive been a customer for over 12 years owning has done me well!
Tech support is an non issue for me. | |
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| | Disappointing... Did not expect this kind of a move from a company like Sonic... definitely not liking what I'm seeing. | |
| | | | Re: Disappointing... Me neither. I've been a very happy customer of Sonic for many years. My modem was free when I upgraded to Fusion over a year ago and until they start charging me the $6.50 what ever they want to call if fee, I guess I can't really complain. However, for $40/month for a sustained 20Mbps/1.0Mbps speeds, one of the best customer support groups around, and I still get to keep my AT&T land line (cell phone coverage in our house is terrible) I think I'm still ahead of the service fee curve. | |
| | | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | Re: Disappointing... said by OttoPylot:Me neither. I've been a very happy customer of Sonic for many years. My modem was free when I upgraded to Fusion over a year ago and until they start charging me the $6.50 what ever they want to call if fee, I guess I can't really complain. However, for $40/month for a sustained 20Mbps/1.0Mbps speeds, one of the best customer support groups around, and I still get to keep my AT&T land line (cell phone coverage in our house is terrible) I think I'm still ahead of the service fee curve.
But its not $40/month.
The new modem charge ($6.50) and the voice tax ($11.17) makes it almost $60 a month.
And if you're really getting 20Mbps, you're one of the lucky ones. | |
| | | | | | Re: Disappointing... True. It's $39.95 per month and with taxes that makes it $51.40. I won't be charged the $6.50 until I need to get a new modem or am forced too. Still, the price point to service quality is very good. | |
|
BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Charter does NOT charge a rental fee. Get your facts straight Karl. | |
| | | Money grab Looks like Sonic is going down the toilet. Too bad they seemed to be on the right track with their CS and pricing.
If you are going to play the "use our modem to prevent problems with service" then allow customers to buy that model on their own and bring it. Then everyone has the same modem on your service and some can rent and some can bring their own. | |
| | |  Restrictions galore...
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