 
myhoes
Michael Extreme User
Premium
join:2003-10-05
Laval, QC
clubs: | Privacy Hello...who are you?? long live your privacy there goes big brother again
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ArchAngel21x
MacFan Pro
Premium
join:2001-10-28
Lincoln, NE | Re: Privacy Hello...who are you?? How long before the RIAA and MPAA go begging to the FBI for "favors". | |
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| | wildbassman
join:2003-03-30
Waynesville, MO | Re: Privacy Hello...who are you?? Who is to say that they aren't behind it already? | |
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| SaBo7Ge
join:2003-03-12
US
1 edit | There's a reason judges are held with the responsibility for issuing warrants. It's to give due process a chance as not to violate the rights of innocent citizens. Blindly handing Federal agencies privelages to trample those rights is an injustice to all. | |
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| | jxsi
join:2003-12-04
Tempe, AZ | Re: Privacy Hello...who are you?? And you truly believe all innocent citizen's rights are protected? How does the judge know you're innocent when he's making his decision? | |
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anon1003
@rr.com
| Re: Privacy Hello...who are you?? "And you truly believe all innocent citizen's rights are protected? How does the judge know you're innocent when he's making his decision"
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This is true. I remember reading last year sometime about the FBI outright lieing about what went on in their "Operation Candyman" case, in which the FBI outright lied to Judges about what went on in order to get warrants. Several judges reversed cases and wrote very long memos scolding the FBI for what they did. Unfortunetly the media doesn't care to mention this injustice. | |
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hpguru
Curb Your Dogma
Premium
join:2002-04-12
1 edit | said by jxsi  :
And you truly believe all innocent citizen's rights are protected? How does the judge know you're innocent when he's making his decision?
Never heard of the concept of being PRESUMED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW?
This is one reason why it has been so easy for the fascist Bush administration to strip us of our civil rights. It's hard to feel the loss when you don't know what you had to start with.
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Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL | Oh you mean all those judges appointed by Bush.... | |
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SuperJudge
Magus
Premium
join:2002-11-14
Albany, GA
clubs: | Dammit, you're right.
'Feel free to do what "we" want you to do.'
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SnowyOne
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI | "The FBI is naturally concerned that such networks have become wretched hives of scum and villainy..."
I wish I could write like that.
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Dave said "By the way, 4294967295 is just another way to write -1". | |
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F walker
Hey Intern, Get Me A Campari
Premium
join:2003-04-10
Anchorage, AK
clubs:
1 edit | Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft! Won't happen.... Although there's no telling with todays many infringments on personal privacy.... *cough* patriot act *cough cough*...... I don't see this going through.... too much $$ to do so.
EDIT: YeeHaaa or w00t!, even, second post.
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| CCCMTech
Premium,VIP,MVM
join:2002-05-17
Pound, VA
| Re: Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft! Actually they're supposed to be making it tap friendly just like phone companies have to do. Police do have to have reasonable cause and/or a search warrant to issue a phone tap though. SO I'm sure the same rules apply to VoIP.
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hpguru
Curb Your Dogma
Premium
join:2002-04-12
| Re: Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft! said by CCCMTech :
Police do have to have reasonable cause and/or a search warrant to issue a phone tap though. SO I'm sure the same rules apply to VoIP.
Not anymore. All they have to do now is utter the magic words "national security" and/or "classified" and they're in - no warrant, no court order, no pesky judges to strip the gears of fascism, no Fourth Amendment, no nothing.
Amendment IV
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
So much for the rule of law. :-/
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| | | CCCMTech
Premium,VIP,MVM
join:2002-05-17
Pound, VA
| Re: Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft! haha, well it would be difficult to prove an issue of national security to most petty criminals. The only thing most guys can even remotely come close is maybe a virus.
Still I'd like to see someone take it to the supreme court over 4 amendment violations.
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| | | | Trivista
join:2003-11-11
Longview, TX | Re: Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft! They used powers granded by the USA PATRIOT act to go after a stripclub owner in Vegas.
He had NO terror ties. | |
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
| Since when has the Constitution meant anything? If it's a living, breathing thing, then we just need the courts to say what the FBI wants to do is ok. They did the same thing for campaign finance reform—now I as a private citizen cannot make an ad that mentions the name of a person running for office 60 days before an election so the First Amendment is out the window. Since it's a living, breathing document, we can also kill it.
Now that being said, I want to say while we must be vigilant in these privacy matters, first of all, right to privacy is not in the Constitution, it was a fabrication of the court to justify the killing of the unborn. Secondly, administrative warrants—which is what we're talking about here—are not new. They are available for some 355 types of federal investigations, including investigations related to threats against the president, health care fraud and child sexual abuse cases. Thirdly, it's not as if these wire taps take place in a vacuum: they are subject to congressional oversight (so we can all breath easy now  ).
One of the, if not the primary responsibilities given to the federal government by the Constitution is the protection of the people. I'm not going to say that Patriot Act or what the FBI wants to do is all perfectly ok (again we need to be vigilant), but in this day and age given the threat of terror attacks, such things are necessary and hopefully, like the Alien and Sedition acts, they can be rolled back when they are no longer needed.
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"Lunches don't get free just because you don't see the prices on the menu. And economists don't get popular by reminding people of that." --Thomas Sowell | |
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| | | | dda
Premium
join:2003-12-29
Bolton, MA
| Re: Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft! quote:
I'm not going to say that Patriot Act or what the FBI wants to do is all perfectly ok (again we need to be vigilant), but in this day and age given the threat of terror attacks, such things are necessary and hopefully, like the Alien and Sedition acts, they can be rolled back when they are no longer needed.
Both the Alien and Sedition Acts weren't necessary when they were enacted; they were done for the same "fear + control" reasons as the Patriot Act. You don't step on the Constitution whenever you feel "threatened." Pulling my library records wouldn't have stopped 9/11; all it will tell you is that I like O Brother, Where Art Thou?.
There are very good reasons why the power of wiretapping and other information gathering techniques is limited; we need only to look at the FBI's past and the whole "Red scare." Since they have abused their power in the past, I see no reason to believe them when they say it will only be used against "terrorists" this time. | |
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PunkGod
join:2003-02-02
| said by CCCMTech :
Actually they're supposed to be making it tap friendly just like phone companies have to do. Police do have to have reasonable cause and/or a search warrant to issue a phone tap though. SO I'm sure the same rules apply to VoIP.
Not anymore they don't. A new law was passed last year that allows the police to tap your phone line if they suspect you of anything illegal and they don't need a court order. | |
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| | | CCCMTech
Premium,VIP,MVM
join:2002-05-17
Pound, VA | Re: Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft! well I guess that falls under reasonable cause. Still a bunch of BS. | |
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justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY | Will just hasten the use of encryption This will just promote wide spread interest in encryption on everything, by default.
Assuming, of course, the NSA don't have some secret math that make the best public key encryption systems useless no matter what the key length is. | |
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F walker
Hey Intern, Get Me A Campari
Premium
join:2003-04-10
Anchorage, AK
clubs: | Re: Will just hasten the use of encryption Which may not be far from reality  | |
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Smokey
I killed the Wabbit
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs:
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| Re: Will just hasten the use of encryption yes, but how many times has that been said in the past?? How many times has a code been broken?? It only takes time, and money, and the NSA has plenty of both.
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myhoes
Michael Extreme User
Premium
join:2003-10-05
Laval, QC
clubs:
1 edit | it already exists its called the geek decryption 3000
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And that my friends is what they say is..That! | |
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MarkH
reserved for later use
Premium
join:2002-12-19
| said by justin :
This will just promote wide spread interest in encryption on everything, by default.
Assuming, of course, the NSA don't have some secret math that make the best public key encryption systems useless no matter what the key length is.
And the real bad guys outside of national governments will think just like that, and will use other means to confuse things for the snoopers. They might be able to crack the encryption, so they use other techniques to disguise what they are saying, the use of something as simple as a book code can confuse the snooper, the sender and the recipient have copies of the same book, instead of typing words in the email etc, they type numbers consisting of page number and line number, then word number. You can go even further and use letter numbers. | |
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hpguru
Curb Your Dogma
Premium
join:2002-04-12
| said by justin :
Assuming, of course, the NSA don't have some secret math that make the best public key encryption systems useless no matter what the key length is.
They don't. It worries them too much.
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| | Cybertoad
join:2001-11-08
Houston, TX
1 edit | Re: Will just hasten the use of encryption said by hpguru :
said by justin :
Assuming, of course, the NSA don't have some secret math that make the best public key encryption systems useless no matter what the key length is.
They don't. It worries them too much.
Actually it depends, some of the encryption methods out there are difficult to impossible for even someone as powerful as the NSA to crack while many others do indeed have "back doors" so to speak or vulnerabilities that could be exploited with ease.
In the case of the ones that are "impossible" to decrypt, an attacker would instead attempt to retrieve the key by surveillance or other means. Remember that any encryption system is only as good as the key that protects it. If your key is vulnerable, then your whole encryption system is vulnerable. | |
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hpguru
Curb Your Dogma
Premium
join:2002-04-12
| Re: Will just hasten the use of encryption said by DaDogs :
Naieve...
Consider using a spell checker. 
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SuperJudge
Magus
Premium
join:2002-11-14
Albany, GA
clubs: | Re: Will just hasten the use of encryption I thought we had gotten past the spellcheck comments.
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justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY
Host:
IPv6
Business Connectiv..
Home/Office setup ..
Console/Handheld g..
Console Tech
| Re: Will just hasten the use of encryption intelligence may work that way, but the laws of maths have not been recalled. A lot of extremely bright people in the field, as bright as any NSA has, believe strongly that there are no practical approaches to cracking the best ciphers. All that happens is they vary their predictions of when such-and-such key length maybe one day attacked in reasonable amounts of compute time.
To say that NSA has a secret key just because "that is how intelligence services work" is national enquirer silly. | |
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F walker
Hey Intern, Get Me A Campari
Premium
join:2003-04-10
Anchorage, AK
clubs:
| Re: Will just hasten the use of encryption said by justin :
intelligence may work that way, but the laws of maths have not been recalled. A lot of extremely bright people in the field, as bright as any NSA has, believe strongly that there are no practical approaches to cracking the best ciphers. All that happens is they vary their predictions of when such-and-such key length maybe one day attacked in reasonable amounts of compute time.
To say that NSA has a secret key just because "that is how intelligence services work" is national enquirer silly.
Ya, just because it makes sense for a gov agency to have or do something, CERTAINLY does not make it so... HAHA LOL@"national enquirer silly"....nice.
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
2 edits | said by justin :
intelligence may work that way, but the laws of maths have not been recalled. A lot of extremely bright people in the field, as bright as any NSA has, believe strongly that there are no practical approaches to cracking the best ciphers. All that happens is they vary their predictions of when such-and-such key length maybe one day attacked in reasonable amounts of compute time.
To say that NSA has a secret key just because "that is how intelligence services work" is national enquirer silly.
That's one of the biggest problems I run into when I'm posting on this board, Justin. People just keep assuming I am saying things I never said... Go back, look over what I wrote.
I studied basic cryptanalysis at Ft. Meade in 1975. I then put that study to work on manual encryption systems. I had some success, nothing earth shaking, but success important enough to still remember almost 30 years later. That was the same year I took the basic traffic analysis course. I had already been a Korean linguist since 1972. In 1983 after eleven years of honorable service I was released with a medical, "line of duty". I then troubled myself to get a degree in Computer Science from Texas A&M University. So you see I do bring a little clue to the subject, even if my spelling isn't up to hpguru's liking.
Here is an interesting little tidbit for you guys who know so much about it. Both the British, and Americans, independently invented public key encryption systems in the early 60's. Neither nation has ever put the technology to use in the real world. For reference, next time you are in the bookstore... look for an orange and white cover... title "crypto". Excellent read.
One last point, NSA understands statistics as well as anyone, that is why the employee more math majors than anyone else in the world. IOW, "Even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while."
The point is simply that if I have no clue whether they can or can not break some public key encryption system, we can rest assured that neither hpguru, yourself, or any other bright minds on the "outside" can know any more surely.
Who knows? Indeed who cares, whether they can or can't? It is not the Intelligence people you should fear. It is the law enforcement people. It wasn't the CIA that burned a hundred people in Waco. It wasn't NSA that shot a woman and her son on Ruby Ridge and it wasn't the military who pulled the trigger on John Kennedy but if you look real hard you'll find the FBI in the middle of all three of those incidents.
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Sarick
It's Only Logical
Premium
join:2003-06-03
USA
 ·FrontierNet Intern..
| yea then we'll have to deal with the TCPA..
All these encryptions will get trashed by certification denies.
We have to face the future kicking and screaming. Big brother is going to make or break us. International law will eventually supersede national law and by international laws our Constitution will be overruled.
Mark my words there is already a push for international laws that contradict out interest. When our government signs on it will effectively NULLIFY the constitution. exactly as the anti-tarriest law changes.
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SuperJudge
Magus
Premium
join:2002-11-14
Albany, GA
clubs: | Re: Will just hasten the use of encryption Eventually everybody will get tired of it and revolt, I'd hope.
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Except using such technology would automatically be illegal, and people using it anyway would be in VIOLATION and automatically considered terrorists or subversives.
Their front doors would explode and they and their machines would be carted off to unknown places for "interviews".
Later, if they did nothing wrong, they might resurface.... maybe.... most likely they would face charges for violations of security laws.
But they'll never see their equipment again.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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| the_counter
join:2004-03-13
Conyers, GA
| said by justin :
This will just promote wide spread interest in encryption on everything, by default.
Assuming, of course, the NSA don't have some secret math that make the best public key encryption systems useless no matter what the key length is.
Any encryption you can get, NSA has already broken, in any language on earth. | |
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hpguru
Curb Your Dogma
Premium
join:2002-04-12
| Re: Will just hasten the use of encryption said by the_counter :
Any encryption you can get, NSA has already broken, in any language on earth.
No offence intended (really) but do you have any idea what you are talking about?
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xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA | crock of shit this is a huge shit sandwich and were all gonna have to take a bite. cant say as i like it much....im not doing anything illegal, but i dont need more eyes than there already are watching things.
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myhoes
Michael Extreme User
Premium
join:2003-10-05
Laval, QC
clubs: | Re: crock of shit "i dont need more eyes than there already are" and i am looking at your avatar lol
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xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA | Re: crock of shit lol hey its just jerry and he dont care anymore lol
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| what is the point? If people want to talk and keep it a secret they will just use a p2p chatting program whether it be voice or text that will be encrypted. The days of the wiretap are over. All they get to here is the message, "Hey jump online and we'll talk" Then the FBI gets to speculate about what they were talking about. | |
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justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY
Host:
IPv6
Business Connectiv..
Home/Office setup ..
Console/Handheld g..
Console Tech
| Re: what is the point? there was a recent story about how intelligence services rounded up a bunch of terrorist operatives who were using anonymous SIM cards for GSM phones (the kind you can buy and use until they run out without ID), and the operatives were communicating by just calling numbers, and hanging up. Once they got suspicious of one, they just connected others by plotting who they contacted.
even if you're encrypting everything, if you're closely observed, then it is guilt by association. | |
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Shamayim
I already have a Messiah.
Premium
join:2002-09-23
| Re: what is the point? said by justin :
there was a recent story about how intelligence services rounded up a bunch of terrorist operatives who were using anonymous SIM cards for GSM phones (the kind you can buy and use until they run out without ID), and the operatives were communicating by just calling numbers, and hanging up. Once they got suspicious of one, they just connected others by plotting who they contacted.
even if you're encrypting everything, if you're closely observed, then it is guilt by association.
This was al-Qaeda. Good thing they slipped up by buying the same card from the same company in Switzerland. Otherwise they would have been tracer-proof, according to the article.
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"tick...tick...tick..." »www.jtf.org/ | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Who pays the cost? said by the article:
The FBI has submitted an expected proposal to the FCC requiring that all broadband providers be forced to rewire their networks in order to make monitoring easier for law enforcement.
Can you guess who's going to pay for this? One of two options. Option 1: The ISPs will have to pay for it themselves and will pass the cost along to the users in the form of increased rates. Option 2: The government will cover the ISPs' costs and will just charge the taxpayers more in taxes to pay for it.
Either way, we'll be paying to make it easier for the government to monitor us.
said by the article:
CNET briefly touches on the request, which author Declan McCullagh hints is so broad it would outlaw the introduction of any new broadband related technology that doesn't comply.
Which means that if you come up with a new type of software program that lets users communicate in some fashion (be it IM, file transfer, etc), you'll need to also code in a back door for law enforcement.
Assuming this is adopted and widely deployed, why couldn't criminals/terrorists/etc write communications software with no police back door and built-in encryption?
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http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/
http://www.PCQandA.com/
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs: | Re: Who pays the cost? Ypu thought of exactly what I was thinking. But I can guarentee you that the Govt. will not be paying for it. So guess who is left!!!! | |
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SuperJudge
Magus
Premium
join:2002-11-14
Albany, GA
clubs: | Re: Who pays the cost? Bill Gates, I don't have the money. 
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hpguru
Curb Your Dogma
Premium
join:2002-04-12 | Make Halliburton pay for it. | |
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hpguru
Curb Your Dogma
Premium
join:2002-04-12
| Re: Sure Thing. said by ctceo :
...what we need to do now is give big brother information that is useless to them.
Anyone remember Jam Echelon Day?
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ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
 ·magicjack.com
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1 edit | »www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/ps···ple.html
And you don't think that a computer operating at these kind of specs will be used to decrypt stuff in the blink of a nano-second???, KEEP IN MIND THIS SCPU IS BEING BUILT FOR THE GOVERNMENT!!!:
(excerpt from link above)
The 100 teraflop ASCI Purple system will be powered by 12,544 POWER5 microprocessors, IBM’s next generation microprocessor. These processors will be contained in 196 individual computers with a total memory bandwidth of 156,000 GBs, the equivalent of 31,200 DVD movies every second. All of the computers are interconnected via a super-fast data highway with a total interconnect bandwidth of 12,500 GB. ASCI Purple will run IBM's AIX 5L operating system.
The system will also contain 50 terabytes of memory (50 trillion units), which is 400,000 times more capacity than the average desktop PC and two petabytes of disk storage (two quadrillion units), the content of approximately one billion books.
On Demand Technology
IBM will integrate special self-managing features into the new supercomputer, allowing for ease of administration and greater system reliability. With the IBM self-discovery feature, ASCI Purple will be able to automatically locate and register thousands of components in the system, freeing administrators to do other tasks. The new POWER5 processors will detect and recover errors without a technician’s intervention. If the system detects repeated errors it will move the workload to another part of the machine.
The technical innovations in ASCI Purple will benefit commercial as well as technical users. The same self-managing and self-protecting technologies to be used in ASCI Purple will be available for businesses consolidating workloads in an effort to reduce costs, and implementing large parallel databases, e-commerce and business intelligence.
Supercomputers as powerful as ASCI Purple and Blue Gene/L will allow scientists to tackle a number of incredibly complex problems for the first time:
High-fidelity-physics calculation of the explosion of a full weapons system with three dimensional features.
Simulation of complete stars in three-dimensions to study how the orbits of binary stars with a high mass ratio become unstable and merge.
Advanced quantum simulation employed in first principles molecular dynamics codes to model the physical and chemical properties of matter with great accuracy. One area of particular interest would be repair of DNA sites damaged by radiation—the scientist would now be able to create a model enzyme active site and include a small piece of DNA to be cleaved. Previously such simulations were out of computational reach because of vast memory and computer time requirements.
Three dimensional seismic and acoustic wave propagation calculations that could be used for numerous diverse projects, including earthquake hazard analysis, oil exploration, nuclear non-proliferation, response of engineered structures, underground structure detection, medical imaging and optics. | |
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gruggni
Oxygen Gets You High
join:2003-07-28
Corpus Christi, TX
| FBI packet sniffing Rewire?
I think what they mean is, replace a switch with a hub. Thus, make it easy to sniff packets. Plug in and start logging.
With the massive amounts of crap passing thru networks these days, I think law enforcement will have a fun time filtering content.
Privacy no longer exists, DB mining killed that.
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8744675
join:2000-10-10
Decatur, GA
| and what's next??? The next requirement from the FBI is that every household in the US will be required to leave a door key under the mat at all times, so the FBI can enter your home at any time to make sure you aren't a terrorist.
You will also be required to leave one window in your home partially open at all times. This is to provide backup so that if electronic listening methods fail, they can send an agent to your home to stand outside the open window and listen to your conversations.
All terrorists must submit a schedule of their terrorist activities to the FBI no later than 2 weeks before the planned terror. This will help the FBI make better use of their resources and have enough agents on hand in the location where the terror event will take place. They will notify you within 60 days if your request has been approved or denied.
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KeepOnRockin
Music Lover Forever
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Beaverton, OR | Re: and what's next??? ROFL 
That's about the size of it. | |
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Varangian
join:2002-12-08
Collinsville, IL
|  There they go again
Eventually we had to start passing notes and having personal conversations if we didnt want the content of our calls instantly distributed on the GOSSIP network.
If you dont want the suits listening, send a written letter.
There's no way to stop the suits spying if they really want to , There are no electronic tricks that let them screen millions of written letters for keywords, so at least they'll have to pay someone to do it.
Besides, a beautifully handwritten letter, whiffing of Chanel No.5 id infintely more desireable than email. | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | Hello Bomb. Cocaine, Taliban, Al Quida, hijack.....
Ok FBI now that I have your attention you can kiss my royal
ass, you too NSA.
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Sr Tech
Premium
join:2003-01-19
New Fairfield, CT | Fbbi on the loose Dont worry, They use the same equipment you do. So you can think of it this way, If they can see you . You can also see them, the only thing is what is used to get to that back door.. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
1 edit | What about the guys who make the backdoor? Whoever puts the backdoor in will be able to spy on anyone same as the FBI without getting caught. Then what if the backdoor leaks? Everyone will be able to spy on everyone. | |
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Chiyo
Save Me Konata-Chan
Premium
join:2003-02-20
Minneapolis, MN
clubs: | Sick of all this Why can't anything be private anymore, when is the US going to start controlling the whole internet. It seems like we can't even be private anymore even in our own homes.. This is just getting sickning. I hope the proposal doesn't go though. | |
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Bruschi
join:2001-04-16
Cape Cod
clubs: | Re: Sick of all this "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."Benjamin Franklin. | |
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GNXPower
Got Boost?
Premium
join:2003-12-18
Huntington Beach, CA | Damn I can't wait 'till November... So these idiots will be ousted. | |
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ccb056
join:2002-04-05
West Lafayette, IN | wont happen I don't think it will ever happen. | |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
1 edit | Things are just getting out of hand... dupe post.. sorry. | |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Its become harder and harder to find someplace or method, electronic or otherwise, by which one can communicate without having to worry about being listened to...
The truth is that I don't really do anything (yet, you never know what will happen tomorrow) that would garner the attention of the spooks at the NSA or the FBI, but the fact that they want the power to listen on anyone and everyone scares me a lot more than the fact that some terrorists might walk in and detonate themselves...
Remember, having the ability to listen and then doing it aren't that far apart. The legislature seems willing to sign over our rights under the guise of "protectionism" on a whim...
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Male by birth... Geek by choice
Money-hungry capitalists are JUST AS dangerous as power-hungry politicos... | |
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NoProxy
join:2002-01-04
| Re: Things are just getting out of hand... said by bmn :
Its become harder and harder to find someplace or method, electronic or otherwise, by which one can communicate without having to worry about being listened to...
The truth is that I don't really do anything (yet, you never know what will happen tomorrow) that would garner the attention of the spooks at the NSA or the FBI, but the fact that they want the power to listen on anyone and everyone scares me a lot more than the fact that some terrorists might walk in and detonate themselves...
Remember, having the ability to listen and then doing it aren't that far apart. The legislature seems willing to sign over our rights under the guise of "protectionism" on a whim...
Agreed, hey I love your avatar, that says it all. Republican or Democrat makes little difference, we are all given the choices to make, we don't really make any choices.
We should all vote none of the above until we get a real choice. The higher levels of power/money feel it's best to run all sides and make the decisions for us as we fight amongst ourselves over politics or sports.
I think the headlines are meaningless, we are already being monitored without our knowledge and have been for some time, The scary thing is now they want you to know that there watching you. So when we all say this is not right, the average person just says yeah I heard this on the news but it's just to protect us. So now it's all out in the open and seems less threatening or spooky to the average person.
But in reality we are slowing being turned in to the governments children to watch and hold our hands, and protect us from the boogie man with our own money! | |
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DaDogs
Semper Vigilantis
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
4 edits | Aye, indeed. They do seem willing to sign away those protections to easily. I don't worry to much about any of the agencies, even DoD. The greatest protection Americans have are other Americans. Just as the greatest liability we have are other Americans. What I mean by that is simple really. I don't fear the government rising up and crushing the people because the government is the people. I'm not saying that the system doesn't show a lot of corruption. I am saying that the strength of the system is to be found in the rank and file not in the management. I don't fear the actions of government, and I won't until I loose faith in the average American.
I've seen people tasked with "listening" say, "I don't hear anything.", when I knew full well they did hear something and I've seen four federal agents from four different agencies listening to a tape I was playing back for them lie about the sentence they heard, even after I got each of them in turn to agree upon each word in the sentence. They lied because they didn't want their agency to be the one that said what we were listening to was true.
I don't fear NSA or the intelligence agencies generally because I personally have burned tape that had information on it in defiance of a man from an LEA who was threatening to get a court order for it. It wasn't his to have. It wasn't in the agreement. It was not my job to gather evidence. It was my job to gather intelligence. There is a big distinction there. I expect that there are young American's who still are required to make that distinction every day and I believe they will choose freedom every time because they are very bright. They know their history. Indeed, they know who shot John.
Mind you I also believe that it is inevitable that one or another fanatic will manage to get a nuke, chemical, or bio weapon into this country and make the Trade Towers look like a pop bottle rocket, but I was working counter-narcotics/counter-terrorism a very long time ago. I've watched the threat grow since 'Pak Chung He' was assassinated. We are fighting an asymmetric war. The enemy is tiny and we are huge. We could crush him if we could find him, but finding him is becoming very, very difficult.
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The biggest mistake that John Kennedy made, was NOT the Bay of Pigs. It was firing J. Edgar Hoover.
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Stewy85
Premium
join:2003-01-16
Sharon, WI
clubs: | If it means I get fiber to my house. | |
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Multitech
Premium
join:2003-05-26
UK
| Re: sorry hit wrong button I think the FBI may have International problems with such technology, certainly from Europeans as any such monitoring would be a breach of the Human Rights act, and as such any information gleaned would be unlawful and therefore not admissable in court.
It may get a US Judge to sign an extradition request, but it will not be approved in Europe.
It will simply mean the FBI will know less about what is going on that they do now as organisations and individuals take steps to protect themselves from this s
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To err is Human, to crunch is devine | |
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