Skype Takes Heat For Chinese Censorship Skype filtering words like 'Democracy' and 'Milk Powder' Tipped by Rob_ 
A report (pdf) by Canadian researchers this week discovered that text communications conducted using the Chinese version of Skype that contain keywords of interest to the Chinese government are stored for censorship and civilian monitoring purposes, and communications containing these keywords are blocked. While China censoring and spying on their citizenry is not new, the fact this data was being stored in unsecured servers has embroiled Skype in a week-long public relations nightmare. "TOM-Skype is censoring and logging text chat messages that contain specific, sensitive keywords and may be engaged in more targeted surveillance," states the report. "What is clear is that TOM-Skype is engaging in extensive surveillance with seemingly little regard for the security and privacy of Skype users. This is in direct contradiction of Skype's public statements regarding their policies in China." In a blog post, Skype CEO Josh Silverman does what any good executive would do: blame someone else. Silverman lays all the blame at the feet of Skype's Chinese partner, TOM Online, which he says has to help China's government as a condition of doing business in the country. According to Silverman, Skype had TOM Online better secure the data, which means everything's fine now. Right?
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 | | It's all about the dollar! The US doesn't really CARE about freedom, or democracy, or any of those talking points the republicans keep bringing up. The ONLY thing that matters to the government is the almighty corporate dollar. So WHAT if china is using US technologies to oppress their own citizens, as long as we get paid, all is good. We even outsource all our jobs over there, but the fat cat executives and corrupt wall street pigs still get their new ferarri's and beach houses. Capitalism without concerns for the consequences, that's what REAL american patriots support.
This message was approved by John McCain.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! | |
|  | | | | | | Re: It's all about the dollar! The problem, quite simply, is that the US Capitalist ENABLE the chinese communist to oppress their own people. We don't really care WHAT kind of government we sell our stuff to, we don't care how badly it screws middle america by outsourcing our jobs. The only thing that this administration cares about is making the rich, even richer.
In 20 years, the AVERAGE CEO Salary has gone from 1.5 million, to over 18 million. In worker terms, it went from 25 workers to 478 workers. THAT is the fat cat's getting fatter, and the rest of us getting screwed.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! | |
| | | | quatrixPremium
join:2005-02-11
South FL
kudos:2 | Re: It's all about the dollar! Is this another one of your justifications for stealing? | |
| | | | |  kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | Re: It's all about the dollar! said by quatrix:Is this another one of your justifications for stealing? You mean when CEOs steal, now even from the tax coffers? | |
| | | | | |  N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Re: It's all about the dollar! Two wrongs obviously don't make right. | |
| | | | | | |  jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA
kudos:1 | Re: It's all about the dollar! said by N3OGH:Two wrongs obviously don't make right. No, a bunch of wrongs make the right. | |
| | | | | | | | N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Re: It's all about the dollar! And makes you totally OT! | |
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| | |  funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
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Yarmouth Port, MA
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1 edit | said by karlmarx:The problem, quite simply, is that the US Capitalist ENABLE the chinese communist to oppress their own people. We don't really care WHAT kind of government we sell our stuff to, we don't care how badly it screws middle america by outsourcing our jobs. The only thing that this administration cares about is making the rich, even richer. Yeah, but think through it.
First off, any US business in China has to obey Chinese law -- even the ones we disagree with; just as any Chinese business in the US has to obey our law. Neither would have it any other way.
Any place we outsource too many jobs to is going becomes less competitive for future outsourced jobs. That's what happened in Bangalore, India -- in just a few short years, their labor costs shot high enough to make jobs move back.
Meanwhile, we tend to add 1.5 million jobs per year, with the exception of 2002 and 2008. Over 5 years, the national average after-tax income grows 20%. So where do these fat-cats live? Sure, most are in the northeast, but the south and the plains gained quite well. Wyoming had the biggest increase -- nearly 40% in the past 5 years. Louisiana had 35% growth and Oaklahoma 30%.
Region 2003 2007
New England $32,993 $40,066
Mideast 31,358 38,321
Great Lakes 27,818 31,902
Plains 27,477 32,224
Southeast 25,577 30,781
Southwest 25,945 31,926
Rocky Mountain 26,771 31,812
Far West 29,256 35,320
United States 28,061 33,619
(to see this, go to »www.bea.gov/bea/regional/spi/def···=summary and
choose the "Per capita disposable personal income" for 2003 and 2007.)
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| | | |  JSYPremium
join:2000-04-05
Elmhurst, NY | said by karlmarx:The problem, quite simply, is that the US Capitalist ENABLE the chinese communist to oppress their own people. I was going to post about your hogwash but then I noticed your username... HAHA yes, please tell me more about how the capitalistic society should work since your mentor was so well versed in it. Don't be so harsh on China - it's the last major nation that has any semblance of your mentor's principles. | |
| | | |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by karlmarx:The problem, quite simply, is that the US Capitalist ENABLE the chinese communist to oppress their own people. That's silly.
China has done things its own way for quite some time now, regardless of outside pressure. The only way China will ever change is if it comes from within.
If you want a comparison, go look at Cuba. We do almost no business with them, and they are a small scale version of China.
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| Communists? You mean the people who sent Chilean socialists seeking refuge in the Chinese embassy to Pinochet's torture chambers? You mean the third largest backer of the Royal Nepal Army behind Washington and London? You mean people who interfered with socialist revolutions throughout Africa due to some factional war with Moscow? You mean people who routinely support the most right wing parties and leaders in Hong Kong and Taiwan? You mean the fuckers who tipped Afghanistan's balance of power against reform and positive social change by choosing to back the reactionary Mujahideen insurgency through the 70s and 80s?
Beijing is Marxist, is not communist, and is not even socialist. | |
| | |  pianotechPianotechPremium
join:2002-12-30
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| said by Linklist:So let me see if I have this right? The problem with China isn't their own Communist leaders who are oppressing their own people, but the US capitalists. Through a Glass Darkly. In a word, yes. One expects China's communist leaders to suppress information in order to oppress their citizens.
What we have here is a company that is helping China's leader do this by choosing profits over principal. You don't see that?
Google did the same thing as a "condition" of doing business in China. Would it not have been better to simply choose not to do business there? I think so. That's bad for business though....
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| | | | funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
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2 edits | Re: It's all about the dollar! said by pianotech:In a word, yes. One expects China's communist leaders to suppress information in order to oppress their citizens. What we have here is a company that is helping China's leader do this by choosing profits over principal. You don't see that? I don't see that.
If we held companies responsible to US democracy ideals in China, then their choice would be
1. Refuse to do any business in China based on their corporate principles, thus offering no American exposure to the Chinese people -- end result, no business in China
2. Be closed down by the Chinese government for failing to follow their laws, thus offering no American exposure to the Chinese people -- end result, no business in China
Net result -- it furthers the spread of freedom and democracy to do business there, meeting their people, showing civility despite our freedoms, and breaking-down misconceptions and preconceptions.
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| | | | | pianotechPianotechPremium
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| Re: It's all about the dollar! I don't see that.
If we held companies responsible to US democracy ideals in China, then their choice would be
1. Refuse to do any business in China based on their corporate principles, thus offering no American exposure to the Chinese people -- end result, no business in China
2. Be closed down by the Chinese government for failing to follow their laws, thus offering no American exposure to the Chinese people -- end result, no business in China
Net result -- it furthers the spread of freedom and democracy to do business there, meeting their people, showing civility despite our freedoms, and breaking-down misconceptions and preconceptions.
Sorry, I disagree. If a company is doing business in China only on the condition of censoring as the Chinese authorities please, how does that qualify as American exposure to the Chinese people? If, for instance, a Chinese citizen searches Google for "Tienneman Square" and finds absolutely nothing about the protest movement and subsequent government crackdown, that is simply an American company doing the Chinese government's bidding. For profit.
How does this serve to "further the spread of freedom and democracy?"
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| | | | | | funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
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1 edit | Re: It's all about the dollar! No need to apologize. My position on this is not solid. said by pianotech:If a company is doing business in China only on the condition of censoring as the Chinese authorities please, how does that qualify as American exposure to the Chinese people? If, for instance, a Chinese citizen searches Google for "Tienneman Square" and finds absolutely nothing about the protest movement and subsequent government crackdown, that is simply an American company doing the Chinese government's bidding. For profit. Well, Yoogle or Gahoo make nothing for 0 search results. Their stock in trade is locating the websites that have that information. There is no profit in "0 results" (and if it happens too often, they'll lose customers).
said by pianotech:How does this serve to "further the spread of freedom and democracy?" Because if the filters catch even 30% (made up number) of the traffic they'd like to catch, the remaining 70% does get through. Even if the filters were 70% effective, how do you construct a filter that would block pages that convey the ideals of freedom and democracy without actually using one of the targeted words?
One metaphor-style example is the Voice of America, a set of government High-Frequency radio stations heard around the world that convey what essentially is the "propaganda" of the USA to countries where our message is restricted. Many of these countries jam the VOA, but the sheer number of stations and the funny tricks that tropospheric bounces play mean that a VOA station can usually be heard despite attempts to jam it.
I really do respect your position on this, and I'm not sure that I'm right in the long run. For now, I think that it still furthers our goals to be in these markets with the restrictions that are faced.
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| | | | | | | pianotechPianotechPremium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA | Re: It's all about the dollar! Fair enough. You do raise good, plausible points.  | |
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| jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA
kudos:1 | said by karlmarx:The US doesn't really CARE about freedom, or democracy, or any of those talking points the republicans keep bringing up. The ONLY thing that matters to the government is the almighty corporate dollar. So WHAT if china is using US technologies to oppress their own citizens, as long as we get paid, all is good. We even outsource all our jobs over there, but the fat cat executives and corrupt wall street pigs still get their new ferarri's and beach houses. Capitalism without concerns for the consequences, that's what REAL american patriots support. This message was approved by John McCain. The government is an extension of our corporations it seems. They are partners in US, Inc. Most of the people of the US do care about freedom and democracy. Those talking points coming from both republicans and democrats are shallow and worthless. It's the actions from both parties that indicate to me that neither represent most of us in a meaningful, honest way.
Capitalism is still the best option, when it is not being abused and left thoroughly unfettered. It is the power-crazed few that have little or no scrupulous qualities that are destroying many of the monumental efforts and sacrifices that helped to establish this great nation. This notion that we must always expand and grow our businesses no matter the consequences is just ridiculous and it needs to be regulated as was originally intended when this country was born.
Clearly our politicians are not doing their jobs and have abandoned their civic duties and responsibilities. And this has nothing to do with an elephant or a donkey pinned to a person's lapel. And it is not something that is strictly a phenomenon of the policies of the US. It is a global issue, as can be confirmed by this Skype story. | |
| | | kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | Re: It's all about the dollar! said by jmn1207:said by karlmarx:The US doesn't really CARE about freedom, or democracy, or any of those talking points the republicans keep bringing up. The ONLY thing that matters to the government is the almighty corporate dollar. So WHAT if china is using US technologies to oppress their own citizens, as long as we get paid, all is good. We even outsource all our jobs over there, but the fat cat executives and corrupt wall street pigs still get their new ferarri's and beach houses. Capitalism without concerns for the consequences, that's what REAL american patriots support. This message was approved by John McCain. The government is an extension of our corporations it seems. They are partners in US, Inc. Most of the people of the US do care about freedom and democracy. Those talking points coming from both republicans and democrats are shallow and worthless. It's the actions from both parties that indicate to me that neither represent most of us in a meaningful, honest way. Capitalism is still the best option, when it is not being abused and left thoroughly unfettered. It is the power-crazed few that have little or no scrupulous qualities that are destroying many of the monumental efforts and sacrifices that helped to establish this great nation. This notion that we must always expand and grow our businesses no matter the consequences is just ridiculous and it needs to be regulated as was originally intended when this country was born. Clearly our politicians are not doing their jobs and have abandoned their civic duties and responsibilities. And this has nothing to do with an elephant or a donkey pinned to a person's lapel. And it is not something that is strictly a phenomenon of the policies of the US. It is a global issue, as can be confirmed by this Skype story. Very true tho the right is prone to this due to their dependence on corporate money.
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[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
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| | | | funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
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1 edit | Re: It's all about the dollar! said by kamm:Very true tho the right is prone to this due to their dependence on corporate money. Perhaps, but the corporate money doesn't really care how it buys influence, the money to watch is also the lobbying money.
Take the EFF. Our major broadband companies EACH spend more on lobbying in just one quarter than the EFF spends in an entire year (checks true for both Comcast and AT&T). That's a lot of face time, and it vastly outguns face time with individual constituents and grass-roots lobbyists that try to represent them.
These Congress-critters can't walk two feet without tripping over a corporate lobbyist who essentially represent zero American voters.
Maybe lobbyists should get face time on Tuesday and Thursday mornings before 10:30 and that all lobbying of any kind must be done in a pre-disclosed public place. Private meetings should be reserved for "U.S." (us) with our own reps. That might fix some of this nonsense. (Beats me if that's a crazy idea...)
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| Re: It's all about the dollar! Agreed. That's why I refuse to respect copyright laws: They can bribe the government to make them more repressive and more all-encompassing whenever the fuck they want whereas we don't have the opportunity to counterbalance Disney, Sony, Nintendo, and the RIAA. | |
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| | | N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
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Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Yeah, and no one on the left takes money from corporations. 
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|  DaveDudeNo Fear
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| said by karlmarx:The US doesn't really CARE about freedom, or democracy, or any of those talking points the republicans keep bringing up. The ONLY thing that matters to the government is the almighty corporate dollar. So WHAT if china is using US technologies to oppress their own citizens, as long as we get paid, all is good. We even outsource all our jobs over there, but the fat cat executives and corrupt wall street pigs still get their new ferarri's and beach houses. Capitalism without concerns for the consequences, that's what REAL american patriots support. This message was approved by John McCain. This is the most incoherent thing i have read in a long time. Does the space shuttle going up cause it to rain as well ? Oh did you forget how the US has helped people throughout the world. Remember the earthquake in Sumatra. Karl i think you need to move to communist country and truely experience the joy.
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 rsa0
join:2003-01-25
Birmingham, AL | So much for Skype privacy Yeah...."unbreakable encryption" ..." privacy"....my @$$ | |
| funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
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Yarmouth Port, MA
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2 edits | Filtered Internet or No Internet Someone that I know closely used to write to an undercover missionary in China. They had to write in code. This was only 10 years ago.
If the choices in China are a filtered Internet, and no Internet, then a filtered Internet wins.
Reasons:
1. Even filtered, truth comes shining through.
2. Filters are generally technologically behind, and access to the Internet means that darknets can provide unfiltered access. Plus, the Chinese have sent many students here to be educated in computer science. I know of a few that are back in China, circumventing these filters for themselves and their friends.
3. Filters probably means that someone in authority looks at what is getting filtered, 99% of which is probably not a threat. As an effect, we can hope that democracy and freedom will someday be seen as a chaos to embrace rather than something to resist.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
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| | | Why is it? Why is it that people get so up in arms about Chines spying on their own people?
But yet, when the US does it it's in the name of "terrorism" and OK.
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| | jmn1207Premium
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Ashburn, VA
kudos:1 | Re: Why is it? said by kfsutops:Why is it that people get so up in arms about Chines spying on their own people? But yet, when the US does it it's in the name of "terrorism" and OK. For me it's more about the censorship. We have many options to find the truth or to even find a crazy non-factual rant ripping our government to shreds. The people of China do not have this luxury. They ONLY have information and a perspective that their own oppressive government provides. | |
| | | | I care because it's obviously not right to filter 'Democracy' and 'Milk Powder' no matter what goverment it is! Isn't that a common sense? | |
| | | | I don't get it either. All this shouting about Dulfar, Sudan, Tibet, Georgia, etc. People should mind their own beezwax. Our country is in the gutter and we want to worry about poor people living in huts? | |
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| | Imagine that... businesses in China being obliged to observe Chinese law. If one doesn't approve of China's policies and laws, then one shouldn't do business in China... and one should certainly never hold an Olympics there. Of course, who wouldn't want to do business in a several billion strong market just for the sake of some little ol' human rights violations?
Quick... name which governments don't spy on their citizens? (It's a very short list.) | |
| DaveDudeNo Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1 | I just cant help but think of Gun N Roses When is Chinese Democracy going to be released ? | |
| | | | Re: I just cant help but think of Gun N Roses said by DaveDude:When is Chinese Democracy going to be released ? They must be waiting on this to actually happen (i.e. never). | |
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| | Clearly U.S. corps/gov are test marketing... and debugging (surely, that is NOT the correct word?) the hardware and software of oppression in China before introducing it pervasively here at home. So, we help perfect the wholesale spying and data profiling of all citizens in China, because it has to be perfected somewhere, and there is no reason NOT to make a buck whenever possible. Yes, we highly value the rights of private enterprise to skim a few billion bucks fucking over the American citizen, rather than taking the communist view that it is the sole province of the government to do so. I'm sure our crafty CEO's are laughing up their sleeves at the veritably free assistance China is providing in perfecting the "surveillance society" mechanisms U.S. corps have/will so profitably install here. Thus utilizing the free R&D to lower the costs and increase the efficiency of these programs in order to produce a competitive domestic product for these services, saving the U.S. government, and, therefore, the taxpayers, a boat-load of money. All that is left to negotiate is the beneficial tax preferences to cover start-up costs here, and the award of lucrative ancillary single source "cost-plus" contracts. | |
|  Ebolla
join:2005-09-28
Dracut, MA | Skype Did anyone else find it amusing that the word Skype is one of the words being tracked according to the chart? | |
| |  ARGONAUTHave a nice day.Premium
join:2006-01-24
New Albany, IN
kudos:1 | Re: Skype You would think "General Tso's Chicken" would have more hits? | |
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