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Rogers Bit Torrent Cat & Mouse
Now clamping down on ports 1720, 1750

Instead of upgrading their networks, Canadian providers Shaw and Rogers have been using packet shaping technology to throttle Bit Torrent users. Worse, when confronted with the tactic, they've often denied such technology is in play. The decision has resulted in a game of cat & mouse between users and the ISP.

Users in our Rogers forum had discovered they could get around the company's efforts to muzzle Bit Torrent traffic by changing their BitTorrent client port to 1720. Rogers has apparently discovered that tactic and has started throttling ports 1720 and 1755 as well. At least one person in the thread says they've found success by using the latest beta of µTorrent, which features end-to-end encryption.

Rogers next tactic will likely mirror that of American overbuilder RCN, who has restricted the number of Bit Torrent connections that can be made. An RCN executive recently stopped by our forums and addressed their tactic directly with our users.
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N0_Nam3
join:2002-06-14
Leamington, ON

N0_Nam3

Member

haha

which is why i have bell

BIGMIKE
Q
Premium Member
join:2002-06-07
Gainesville, FL

BIGMIKE

Premium Member

Re: The End of the Internet?

The End of the Internet?

The nation's largest telephone and cable companies are crafting an alarming set of strategies that would transform the free, open and nondiscriminatory Internet of today to a privately run and branded service that would charge a fee for virtually everything we do online.

Verizon, Comcast, Bell South and other communications giants are developing strategies that would track and store information on our every move in cyberspace in a vast data-collection and marketing system, the scope of which could rival the National Security Agency. According to white papers now being circulated in the cable, telephone and telecommunications industries, those with the deepest pockets--corporations, special-interest groups and major advertisers--would get preferred treatment. Content from these providers would have first priority on our computer and television screens, while information seen as undesirable, such as peer-to-peer communications, could be relegated to a slow lane or simply shut out.

Under the plans they are considering, all of us--from content providers to individual users--would pay more to surf online, stream videos or even send e-mail. Industry planners are mulling new subscription plans that would further limit the online experience, establishing "platinum," "gold" and "silver" levels of Internet access that would set limits on the number of downloads, media streams or even e-mail messages that could be sent or received. »[Tech] The End of the Internet?

»www.thenation.com/doc/20 ··· /chester
Drex_CS
join:2005-05-11
canada

Drex_CS

Member

Re: The End of the Internet?

how's that tin foil working out for you?

BIGMIKE
Q
Premium Member
join:2002-06-07
Gainesville, FL

BIGMIKE

Premium Member

Re: The End of the Internet?

said by Drex_CS:

how's that tin foil working out for you?
Not so good can you recommend a good Tin-foil hat?:D

rtcy
FACTS only please
Premium Member
join:1999-10-16
Norwalk, CA

rtcy

Premium Member

Re: The End of the Internet?

said by BIGMIKE:

said by Drex_CS:

how's that tin foil working out for you?
Not so good can you recommend a good Tin-foil hat?:D
the internet is becoming a replay of history during the late 1800's early 1900's now the new robber barons of today are the same hot air stock hype companies like Gooogle and the "reunited" phone companies that were once MA bell, of course let's not forget or greedy friend in the cable companies, that re-invented their own monpolistic ideas of "franchise" to price control what we all see.

all the authors of the p2p software dp is come up up with a random port scheme to get around this.

What pussles me in this commentary is the line that talks about of Rogers and Shaw "upgrading" their network. I was under the *gealous* impression for some time now that both of these Canadian Giants had *pure* fiber optics is this not true?

if it is true the why are they throtling speeds? i tought they had bragged about all the unlimited bandwidth they had, why not upgrade the hardware to the faster OC192, as I understand it, that is all that is basically needed to double or triple speeds, it's not like they would have to layout new fiberoptic cable all over again
Drex_CS
join:2005-05-11
canada

Drex_CS

Member

Re: The End of the Internet?

they have fiber backbones, so fiber to the node, but not into the house from what I understand.

rtcy
FACTS only please
Premium Member
join:1999-10-16
Norwalk, CA

rtcy

Premium Member

Re: The End of the Internet?

said by Drex_CS:

they have fiber backbones, so fiber to the node, but not into the house from what I understand.
Sounds to me like they don't even have a legitimate reason to steal their clients bandwidth. I can see how some of these cable giants that now *need* more bandwidth to sell phone services are making shady decisions with their clients paid for bandwidth.

Dryvlyne
Far Beyond Driven
Premium Member
join:2004-08-30
Newark, OH

Dryvlyne to BIGMIKE

Premium Member

to BIGMIKE
said by BIGMIKE:

The End of the Internet?

The nation's largest telephone and cable companies are crafting an alarming set of strategies that would transform the free, open and nondiscriminatory Internet of today to a privately run and branded service that would charge a fee for virtually everything we do online.

Verizon, Comcast, Bell South and other communications giants are developing strategies that would track and store information on our every move in cyberspace in a vast data-collection and marketing system, the scope of which could rival the National Security Agency. According to white papers now being circulated in the cable, telephone and telecommunications industries, those with the deepest pockets--corporations, special-interest groups and major advertisers--would get preferred treatment. Content from these providers would have first priority on our computer and television screens, while information seen as undesirable, such as peer-to-peer communications, could be relegated to a slow lane or simply shut out.

Under the plans they are considering, all of us--from content providers to individual users--would pay more to surf online, stream videos or even send e-mail. Industry planners are mulling new subscription plans that would further limit the online experience, establishing "platinum," "gold" and "silver" levels of Internet access that would set limits on the number of downloads, media streams or even e-mail messages that could be sent or received. »[Tech] The End of the Internet?

»www.thenation.com/doc/20 ··· /chester
Three words to sum this up - NEW WORLD ORDER

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru

MVM

You can't block everything

So they clamp down on ports 1720 and 1750. Torrents will just move to 1721 and 1751. No matter what they do, people will still work around it.
drunkgoat
join:2004-04-18

drunkgoat

Member

Re: You can't block everything

As a rogers customer, it doesn't matter which port you use anymore, the safe havens of 1720 and 1750 are no longer there, they throttle bit torrent traffic by recognising the header not by port.

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru

MVM

Re: You can't block everything

said by drunkgoat:

they throttle bit torrent traffic by recognising the header not by port.
So then someone will come out with a hack to make the headers look like something it's not. Or as the summary said, encrypt it flat out.

It's a cat and mouse game, and everytime the cat (Rogers) catches a mouse, another mouse will appear somewhere else and start scurrying around.
bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL

bamabrad

Member

Rogers....

Why don't you (Rogers) just go the way in which the consumers WANT to go instead of forcing us into your way-Does this not make good business sense?

corster
Premium Member
join:2002-02-23
Oshawa, ON

corster

Premium Member

Rogers Lied, 3 Died

Rogers likes to lie about anything and everything they can.

Blacking out ABC during the Superbowl - "ABC Buffalo is down' and we can't get their feed".

Yeah Right. That's why it came back on right after the Superbowl

"We don't throttle. It's your computers problem."
"No, 128/3 is an acceptable speed on your 3000/384 service. It must be a problem with your computer".

Screw You Ted. Screw You.
WiZZLa
Insert Meaningless Text Here -Run 4a Mod
join:2003-11-09
Canada

WiZZLa

Member

Re: Rogers Lied, 3 Died

said by corster:

Rogers likes to lie about anything and everything they can.

Blacking out ABC during the Superbowl - "ABC Buffalo is down' and we can't get their feed".

Yeah Right. That's why it came back on right after the Superbowl
What type of TV service do you have? I don't recall regular cable being blacked out.

travisc
join:2001-11-09
Uxbridge, ON

travisc to corster

Member

to corster
There actually was an outage with ABC's digital transmitter due to a storm that day, if I remember correctly.

corster
Premium Member
join:2002-02-23
Oshawa, ON

corster

Premium Member

Re: Rogers Lied, 3 Died

said by travisc:

There actually was an outage with ABC's digital transmitter due to a storm that day, if I remember correctly.
yes there was, however It came back on before Gametime, and rogers neglected to turn it back on.

idlewillkill
Go Blue
Premium Member
join:2005-09-28
North York, ON

idlewillkill to corster

Premium Member

to corster
That was the CRTC. Had to carry the Global feed, couldn't carry the Buffalo feed.

andyb
Premium Member
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario

andyb

Premium Member

Dump Rogers

While some will disagree with me,you must show you mean business and leave rogers.I understand that sure you can only get 1 or 2 mb on dsl but isnt that better than 0-20KB for your torrents?Plus you have a cap(while it maynot be enforced today but what about tommorow?).Talk with your wallet,thats the only way they listen.

renton
Come On You Spurs
Premium Member
join:2002-01-05
Toronto, ON

renton

Premium Member

Re: Dump Rogers

said by andyb:

I understand that sure you can only get 1 or 2 mb on dsl
You can get 5 megs with Sympatico Ultra(ADSL). I pay $50/month.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Just Block Everything

<sarcasm>
Rogers should just block all traffic to and from any port. This will completely solve their bandwidth problems.
</sarcasm>

As for their users... stop complaining here and switch to someone else if you can, or just drop Rogers completely if you cannot use their service the way you want to. There is no reason to pay for something you cannot use!

huh
@208.17.x.x

huh

Anon

Why waste the time?

Bittorrent sucks anyway. I cannot see the reason anyone uses that...on word-

Usenet.

travisc
join:2001-11-09
Uxbridge, ON

travisc

Member

Re: Why waste the time?

The irony being, of course, that Rogers has terminated Usenet services.
Shark_615
join:2006-01-17
Pickering, ON

Shark_615

Member

so what

This is what happens when 1% of the users are consuming 90% of the bandwidth.

I am glad they are throttling those wasters of bandwidth. Ther e is no need to download everything left right and centre, if people are "just" downloading linux it wouldn't be an issue and Rogers wouldn't be doing this.

Roundboy
Premium Member
join:2000-10-04
Drexel Hill, PA

Roundboy

Premium Member

Re: so what

said by Shark_615:

This is what happens when 1% of the users are consuming 90% of the bandwidth.

I am glad they are throttling those wasters of bandwidth. Ther e is no need to download everything left right and centre, if people are "just" downloading linux it wouldn't be an issue and Rogers wouldn't be doing this.
Hello! Welcome to the internet!

Rogers is NOT throttling connections.. its outright blocking the bittorrent applicaion from sharing & connecting.

This affects quite a bit more then 'linux ISO downloads' .. it is in use by many sites to serve patches & demos (including World of Warcraft), which is increasing by the day. Also many people find it a perfect alternative to website bandwidth limitations when hosting large-ish files, as torrent'ing them spreads the bandwidth around.

As a new internet user, I'm sure you'll soon see that Bittorrent traffic != Illegal Traffic.
Shark_615
join:2006-01-17
Pickering, ON

Shark_615

Member

Re: so what

Are you new to reading?

I said that if the majority of BT downloads were used for legal activities then the amount of traffic wouldn't have bothered Rogers and they would not have installed anti-bt measures.

They are not blocking bt they are severly minimizing it. But of course you wouldknow, you ARE a rogers customer right?

Roundboy
Premium Member
join:2000-10-04
Drexel Hill, PA

1 edit

1 recommendation

Roundboy

Premium Member

Re: so what

said by Shark_615:

Are you new to reading?
Ah! I see what you did there.
said by Shark_615:

I said that if the majority of BT downloads were used for legal activities then the amount of traffic wouldn't have bothered Rogers and they would not have installed anti-bt measures.
Super. But, *my* post implied that one could generate as much perfectly legal traffic as illegal download traffic. So, Rodgers is not a perfect, unique snowflake for throttling. You did by 'unlimited' internet right? Or did you buy 'unlimited internet, except if you actually use it'
Shark_615
join:2006-01-17
Pickering, ON

Shark_615

Member

Re: so what

I am glad you got that, my day would have been ruined if that little dig has been missed.

However I am sure a few people would be able to make a lot of traffic legally. However the amount of traffic they would create would be tiny compared to how much traffic illegal sharing is creating.

Don't get me wrong I download and share files I probably shouldn't but I severely limit what I get to what I need. I know several people that download full movies just to watch once. They have dozens of files on the go all of the time.

They key here is ABUSE. Its like going 200MPH in a car just because you can and f*** everyone else.

Roundboy
Premium Member
join:2000-10-04
Drexel Hill, PA

1 edit

Roundboy

Premium Member

Re: so what

said by Shark_615:

However I am sure a few people would be able to make a lot of traffic legally.
So.. maybe only like the top 1% of downloaders ?
said by Shark_615:
This is what happens when 1% of the users are consuming 90% of the bandwidth.
Shark_615
join:2006-01-17
Pickering, ON

Shark_615

Member

Re: so what

Are you a lawyer?

rtcy
FACTS only please
Premium Member
join:1999-10-16
Norwalk, CA

1 recommendation

rtcy to Shark_615

Premium Member

to Shark_615
said by Shark_615:

I am glad you got that, my day would have been ruined if that little dig has been missed.

However I am sure a few people would be able to make a lot of traffic legally. However the amount of traffic they would create would be tiny compared to how much traffic illegal sharing is creating.

Don't get me wrong I download and share files I probably shouldn't but I severely limit what I get to what I need. I know several people that download full movies just to watch once. They have dozens of files on the go all of the time.

They key here is ABUSE. Its like going 200MPH in a car just because you can and f*** everyone else.
legal or ilegal is not the issue.

they are selling you a amount of bandwidth, and they have no right to take it back from you. they are a pipe provider, they are not cops, and if they were cops , they can not see what is legal or not in a BT stream, so they are in fact taking away from you the subscriver what you are paying them for in the first place.

as others have said here, the only way to really give them a good jab is to switch service and letting them know in writting as well as voice WHY.

keep competition ALIVE. this is my number 1 worry about Verizon and them wanting to kill that copper plant and are actively taking down those copper wires. their aim is to be the next MA-bell-CABLE giant. they have talked the FCC to letting them have their way because of the huge investment, and i agree they need to secure that, BUt I want to see 20 years from now the re-opening of that fiver to the same competition that copper has now.

I hope people keep themselves informed and ACTIVe in these matters on both sides of the border

csnewbie
join:2001-02-12
Atlanta, GA

csnewbie to Shark_615

Member

to Shark_615
if you pay for unlimited internet access, then you should get it. not throttle your bandwidth and limit your usage. if you can't provide unlimited then dont advertise it.

if people can't use their high speed internet however they want then why bother to pay 3 or 4 times as much for it? would it not be wise to stick with dialup if all u were doing is just checking email and browsing?

mikef1
Mike
join:2004-10-28
Littlestown, PA

mikef1 to Shark_615

Member

to Shark_615
said by Shark_615:

This is what happens when 1% of the users are consuming 90% of the bandwidth.

I am glad they are throttling those wasters of bandwidth. Ther e is no need to download everything left right and centre, if people are "just" downloading linux it wouldn't be an issue and Rogers wouldn't be doing this.
I agree.

I do wonder how much throttling they are doing, whether its a fixed cap or not.
At my place of employment we shape all internet traffic with the p2p getting the lowest priority. So they get as much as available, they just don't interfere with other traffic.

MxxCon
join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY
ARRIS TM822
Actiontec MI424WR Rev. I

MxxCon

Member

What genius

what genius decided to use arbitrary ports 1720 and 1750?
seems like some douche posted that it works on those 2 ports and EVERYBODY LIKE SHEEP started following.
why not just use RANDOM port numbers each time you start bt?
geez

andyb
Premium Member
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario

andyb

Premium Member

Re: What genius

1720/1750 was targeted because its thier internet phone port.those with voip are not throttled(on those ports) as of yet that I've seen.

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt to MxxCon

Premium Member

to MxxCon
said by MxxCon:

what genius decided to use arbitrary ports 1720 and 1750?
seems like some douche posted that it works on those 2 ports and EVERYBODY LIKE SHEEP started following.
why not just use RANDOM port numbers each time you start bt?
geez
Rogers throttles ALL ports, so random ports do not work. 1720 & 1755 were an exception, because 1720 is for VoIP, and 1755 is for streaming audio/video for microsofts windows media.

These worked for a while, until they figured it out and clamped those down with some deeper throttling.
Driscollw
join:2003-01-11
Virginia Beach, VA

1 recommendation

Driscollw

Member

This is BS

If a company doesn't want you to consume 90% of THEIR bandwidth the companies should sell it that way. Don't claim UNLIMITED and then put on caps. Some VOIP companies say Unlimited calling (But not to exceed 2500 minutes monthly). Companies should be honest of there claims. Then they say "It's unlimited content" not unlimited as in Buffet. BS. AOL sold internet for $20 for 20 hrs. We understood. Then they went unlimited. Not once did they warn me for taking to much bandwidth or being on to long. But, they did disconnect after too much idle time.

I don't take to much bandwidth but, if cox sold me a 5000/2000 connection for 60GB/10GB I still would buy it but, I would understand the limits. They won't sell it that way because all other ISP would take it as an opportunity. GOOD!. All this crap w/ 2 tier internet is BS. It's just putting us further and further behind in technology. The US will come around. All these major corporations are loosing control. CD, DVD, TV copying (archiving), internet, telephone. everyone is just freaking out due to money that they are loosing. They have made TONS of money over the years. Come up with something new to offer us and I might bite.

insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN

insomniac84

Member

Do they throttle business plans?

I guess they can make excuses to throttle residential plans based on residential restrictions, but are they also throttling bittorrent traffic on business plans? If not, upgrade to business.

andyb
Premium Member
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario

andyb

Premium Member

Re: Do they throttle business plans?

Yes Business is throttled at times also according to HiVolt

insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN

insomniac84

Member

Re: Do they throttle business plans?

Well than that's a pretty sad business service. Normally I would assume a business line would have no filters or throttlers of any kind and be allowed to run at full bandwidth 24/7.

garts99
join:2003-02-27
North York

garts99

Member

utorrent beta seems to work...

The new utorrent beta encryption seems to work but only with other peers with encryption. The more users upgrade, the faster speeds will increase.

That is, until Rogers upgrades its traffic shaping tech. Or is that possible? I'm not a techie person. :P

••••
xTRULYRATEDx
join:2003-05-10
Shubenacadie, NS

xTRULYRATEDx

Member

Switch ISP's

Switch ISP's even they charge you a few bucks if torrent is what u want switch, I think rogers does not allow anymore of torrent.

•••••
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25

Member

Simple Fix - Bandwidth Caps

All they should simply do is put a known cap on their services and stop marketing it as unlimited. Not only would this address the problem with BT, but any other abuses out there will be addressed and they wont have to worry about the ports or playing cat and mouse. Then those that abuse their network will either be severally throttled back when they reach the cap (128 or 256kbps), turned off until the next billing cycle, or billed more for the additional bandwidth.

As an ISP they have the right to restrict or straight out deny anything they want. It is their service and their customer's are paying for the privilege to use it according to their terms. So the customer's abide by their rules or they can take their business elsewhere. Or in the case that this may be the only broadband option at the time... they play by their rules, or they switch back to dialup with another service provider.
TFArchive
Premium Member
join:2003-02-03
Gloucester, ON

TFArchive

Premium Member

Re: Simple Fix - Bandwidth Caps

Rogers does have bandwidth caps of 60 and 100GB. But since they put those in they have terminated newsgroups, and throttled torrents. And previous to that they basically took away e-mail and webpages when they sold out to yahoo. (the free webpage is a geocities page that uses your @rogers address in the address so if you're stupid enough to use it you'll be in spam heaven before long).

I'm glad I switched away from Rogers after they put the caps in. I'm happy with my Sympatico Ultra and my Sympatico Dry HSE connections
Drex_CS
join:2005-05-11
canada

Drex_CS

Member

Unlimited ACCESS

while I hate the traffic shaping and caps myself, I know that Shaw advertises Unlimited ACCESS to the internet. This means it's always on, unlike dial up. this does not mean unlimited download/upload. just thought I would clairify that since no one ever seems the remember that second word after Unlimited when complaining
bbenso1
join:2004-11-28
Baltimore, MD

bbenso1

Member

Re: Unlimited ACCESS

said by Drex_CS:

while I hate the traffic shaping and caps myself, I know that Shaw advertises Unlimited ACCESS to the internet. This means it's always on, unlike dial up. this does not mean unlimited download/upload. just thought I would clairify that since no one ever seems the remember that second word after Unlimited when complaining
Yes, but they don't advertise unlimited ACCESS to (Internet - bittorrent - usenet). The internet is not just web pages. UNLIMITED ACCESS to the internet means you should be able to access any data or service on the internet, including usenet, bittorrent, ftp sites, whatever you want. As soon as they start messing with applications and protocols to prevent you from connecting to servers then you no longer have unlimited access.
Drex_CS
join:2005-05-11
canada

Drex_CS

Member

Re: Unlimited ACCESS

not sure about Rogers, but as for Shaw, they do not block any torrent/usenet/etc, they only slow it down in some area's... so the point still stands for them, they give you unlimited access, just slower than you want.
zipjay
join:2003-03-11
South Williamson, KY

zipjay

Member

What im going to start doing..

if everyone blocks bittoreent im gonna start calling isps when i move and be like "HI! im wanting to sign up for internet access.. im just wondering do you block bittorrent" most likeley they wont have a clue and transfer me to the special internet people and if they know and just tell me "yes we do" then ok goodbye but make sure everyone knows im wanting to sign up before i ask the question heheh kinda nudge then that i wont sign up if their blocking it
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA

Premium Member

Heres my guess:

Heres my guess: The phone company will offer 1.5mbps DSl for like $10/mo, but only sites that pay will be avaialable through the connection, no torrent, no big downloads, no nothing else. Then comcast, in order to differentiate themselves will offer a 20 or 50mbps connection with no caps throttles or limits, save for no servers and such, but it will be like $100 month, like their didgcable is, and it will require digicable or digivoice to not be like $200.
jebba2005
join:2005-01-13
Portland, ME

1 recommendation

jebba2005

Member

roger roger

the customer doesnt really seem to have any options here

start your own coop maybe, call it hippy net, throttle patchouli. complaining wont do much

start the coop, and steal all there customers. then you can block your users from sending anything to rogers email, or business line subscribers. okay thats overboard...
throttling patchouli
Tristan9669
join:2004-08-07
Beverly Hills, CA

Tristan9669

Member

hopppppeeeeeee

I sure hope comcast dont get any ideas.

•••

bollockchops81
@cpe.net.cable.rogers

bollockchops81

Anon

Here's what Rogers Yahoo has to say about this...

Rogers Yahoo Help page has this to say to its valued customers. In my opinion, trying to whitewash the issue and get us looking for red herring causes.
---------------------------------------------
User Q: I have a T1 or cable connection but whenever I try to watch a video, it's choppy or the frame rate is much slower than the audio rate.

Rogers A: If you have tried increasing your buffer size and made sure you have the proper bandwidth selected, then most likely this is caused by you having either outdated hardware (a Pentium or lower), an outdated operating system (Win 3.1), an outdated browser (Netscape 3, IE 3), or not enough memory, video RAM, etc.

The Windows media codecs are optimized for Pentium III and run fine on Pentium II, but on a Pentium or lower, they choke completely. Also you need a decent amount of system resources, RAM, VRAM, etc., to get good results.

------------------------------------------

Come on Rogers, come clean.
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