 
Raptor
Not a Dumptruck
join:2001-10-21
London, ON
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
 ·Bell Sympatico
| Rest assured... Someone is going to get wicked rich off this deal. A new country-wide communication infrastructure is sure to line someones pockets.
In partnering with the private sector, can we really put faith in the FCC to give them a kick in the ass to get the job done? They drag their feet enough as it is in terms of broadband deployment, especially in the specific regions of the country. And while some areas may not provide broadband profit, they will still need to be under this new First Responder network, as they are just as prone to some sort of disaster as anyone.
Network deployment and setup aside, will the local authorities and emergency services still not require new equipment as the article speaks of how most are rather old? That is going to be a logistical nightmare.
It just sucks putting your safety in bed with corporations. Keeping you safe isn't always so profitable.
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....where's my fiber? | |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| Re: Rest assured... Not to sound ignorant, or uneducated on this subject, but what happened to the radio systems used by first responders that worked just dandy up until now? what is the advantage of having a broadband network for this purpose? (at least on a national level?) | |
| | | smcallah
join:2004-08-05
Home | Re: Rest assured... First responders need porn too! | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| Those systems haven't always worked just "dandy" up until now. In several jurisdictions, there are lots of problems with radio and communication.
When I worked as a dispatcher in Chester County, PA (My first job out of college) the County was trying to bring the 800 Mhz radio system on line. The old 500 Mhz system was still running at the time. The first responders were always complaining about the 800 Mhz, as the coverage was terrible. Later, when I worked as a police officer there, I "got it" so to speak. The 800 mhz radios were terrible, and you had to carry the old radios as back up.
Last year, 2 firefighters in Delaware died when they didn't get the order to evacuate a structure fire due to their 800 Mhz radios not functioning.
The NYPD and FDNY STILL can't talk to each other, due to having separate radio systems.
I think what they're looking for here is a separate system from regular dispatch services. A national system that all first responders have access to. So when a catastrophe where first responders are brought in from outside jurisdictions, they can all communicate with each other easily and quickly.
I remember a piece that ran here on BBR about a year ago that talked about the DoD buying the iDEN system from Sprint when they shut it down in 2010. Not a bad start, but being a former Nextel customer, and having to use Nextel at work, I have to say the coverage is just terrible.
Things have gotten a lot better over the years, though. The mobile data terminals we have now are nothing short of essential equipment at this point. The ability to check a driver's license or to see if someone is wanted while in the field is a great capability. We just went to a new software package that lets us see the call taker's notes, a map of the location of the incident, and any previous calls at that location. It's great.
I really do think the evolution of information technology has been the greatest thing to happen to law enforcement since the discovery of fingerprints...
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Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy | |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY | Re: Rest assured... Thank you, that's what I was looking for, I get it now. | |
| | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| I will add on to this.
Not every system works in every area the same way.
While 800Mhz is nice, it is not a long distance thing unless you have relatively flat terrain.
Another issue with "trunking" radios is that they are heavily dependant on computers. Each one acts almost like a cell phone when it is on the network. A dispatcher can even change someones radio over to another channel so that everyone working the same incident can be away from everyone else. Computer goes down, problems come up.
A national system, in my opinion, is not that feasible. Trying to find one set of frequencies that work well everywhere is going to be hard. Cell phones still have spotty coverage and in areas where there isn't much, some public agencies still use VHF-lo band stuff. | |
| | | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Rest assured... said by moonpuppy  :I will add on to this. Not every system works in every area the same way. While 800Mhz is nice, it is not a long distance thing unless you have relatively flat terrain. Another issue with "trunking" radios is that they are heavily dependant on computers. Each one acts almost like a cell phone when it is on the network. A dispatcher can even change someones radio over to another channel so that everyone working the same incident can be away from everyone else. Computer goes down, problems come up. A national system, in my opinion, is not that feasible. Trying to find one set of frequencies that work well everywhere is going to be hard. Cell phones still have spotty coverage and in areas where there isn't much, some public agencies still use VHF-lo band stuff. The way the network I have worked on work is there is actually an intelligent man in the middle that sends the same signal on another band in the different area. It uses ip and private fiber to bring it to that point if it has no relay.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
| | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| said by N3OGH :Those systems haven't always worked just "dandy" up until now. In several jurisdictions, there are lots of problems with radio and communication. When I worked as a dispatcher in Chester County, PA (My first job out of college) the County was trying to bring the 800 Mhz radio system on line. The old 500 Mhz system was still running at the time. The first responders were always complaining about the 800 Mhz, as the coverage was terrible. Later, when I worked as a police officer there, I "got it" so to speak. The 800 mhz radios were terrible, and you had to carry the old radios as back up. Last year, 2 firefighters in Delaware died when they didn't get the order to evacuate a structure fire due to their 800 Mhz radios not functioning. The NYPD and FDNY STILL can't talk to each other, due to having separate radio systems. I think what they're looking for here is a separate system from regular dispatch services. A national system that all first responders have access to. So when a catastrophe where first responders are brought in from outside jurisdictions, they can all communicate with each other easily and quickly. I remember a piece that ran here on BBR about a year ago that talked about the DoD buying the iDEN system from Sprint when they shut it down in 2010. Not a bad start, but being a former Nextel customer, and having to use Nextel at work, I have to say the coverage is just terrible. Things have gotten a lot better over the years, though. The mobile data terminals we have now are nothing short of essential equipment at this point. The ability to check a driver's license or to see if someone is wanted while in the field is a great capability. We just went to a new software package that lets us see the call taker's notes, a map of the location of the incident, and any previous calls at that location. It's great. I really do think the evolution of information technology has been the greatest thing to happen to law enforcement since the discovery of fingerprints... Not only is this system in use in the USA but we are rolling out the same software packages as we speak in Colombia and several other south American countries. The major goal here is every one being on the same page when there is a disaster.
Let me note this ! I HATE MAPFRAME  . I worked on those systems in the US for a long long time.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
| | | ub355
join:2005-09-15
Brookfield, WI | There are areas where cell phone and Public Service radio freqs in the 800 Mhz range interfere with each other | |
| | | peterrroy
join:2006-08-21
Houston, TX
| There already is a national model for public safety communications. It has been developed by the National Spectrum Coalition (www.spectrumcoalition.dc.gov). It operates in the 700 MHz band. It is proven and operational in the national capital region, being used by federal agencies (e.g. Secret Service) and local fire and police at the municipal and county levels (i.e. DC and counties in MD and VA).
This technology is available on a national level as soon as Congress releases the spectrum for public safety use. This will occur in the next couple of years.
This 700MHz technology allows broadband voice, video, etc and is based on widely available commercially-oriented (i.e. reasonably priced) devices as opposed to the traditional VHF/UHF single-source radios (costing up to $5k/handheld and over $2 million per transceiver site) that cannot provide broadband data.
The above 700 Mhz spectrum is LICENSED, which is absolutely mandatory for public safety applications. Wi-Fi is unlicensed and therefore is ineligible as a reliable front line public safety medium. Wi-Fi is fine as a second line of defense or for non-critical business communications. | |
| 
motorolaman
@cox.net
| I need the commissions there already are designated statewide emergency channels for each state. typically these networks are administered by state police. each agency (local, county, whatever) are welcome to use these common frequencies for emergency purposes but have to purchase their own radios. equipment is not included in the deal.
each state police organization maintains repeaters. base stations, mobiles and portables are the responsibility of local/county/whatever agencies.
most state police agencies have equipment funds that allow them to purchase the latest and greatest. each time they do a system update they will typically move to another frequency spectrum which usually is not compatible with the VHF emergency common frequencies mentioned above. so what you have is a myriad of agencies all using different brands of equipment and different frequencies trying to get along so to speak.
considering the egos usually involved, I doubt this will ever be resolved. NYPD & NYFD were talking about common systems in 1975. Still hasn't happened. | |
| VansHSI
join:2005-01-29
America | iDEN Network What do you think Sprint is going to do with the iDEN network...???
A national first class walkie talkie network set up specifically for the government that uses sprint's national backbone. Sounds like a happy marriage if you ask me. | |
| | | | | VansHSI
join:2005-01-29
America
| Re: iDEN Network Right... I'm not sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing but anyways - the commitment is only through 2010. After that Wimax and CDMA will be humming along together, full push to talk functionality will be on all phones operating on the CDMA network and iDEN will be ready to be sold to the highest bidder - $$$$$$$$ | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| Well nothing beats free, Amateur radio is classified as a first responder and the price is right. 
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The older I get the more I prefer the company of my dogs over that of man kind. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | Re: iDEN Network I don't have to agree or disagree I simply posted that up as reference. Thought that it might be informative to you. | |
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Pitching Broadband For First Responders