 
AlkalineArmy
Premium
join:2002-03-14
Greenfield, IN | Good Idea Sound like an excellent idea, however you know the phone companies will never go along with it. | |
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Mellow
Premium
join:2001-11-16
Salisbury, MD | FTTH And they say FTTH would not be profitable. Pfft, they make a regular phone line a money sucking device.
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Check out the Cavalier forum! | |
| IanR
join:2001-03-22
Madison, NJ | Which is it? How come all the Baby Bells are not rolling in massive profits then? Are their intrinsic high costs which need to be recovered or are they so badly managed? | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Which is it? Actually, they are. But remember, declared profits mean extra taxes, so, the goal is to make tons of money but look like you're only breaking even. | |
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Alpine
Premium
join:2000-01-11
Atlanta, GA
| Re: Which is it? said by KrK  :
Actually, they are. But remember, declared profits mean extra taxes, so, the goal is to make tons of money but look like you're only breaking even.
Conspiracy theorists crack me up... Keep 'em coming - they're great comic relief!
Adam | |
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Rhobite
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| Re: Which is it? How is that a conspiracy theory? It's perfectly valid business to try and minimize reported earnings in order to reduce the tax burden. There are obvious drawbacks to that strategy, but it's still a valid strategy.
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Jimmysquid.com - I take pictures. | |
| | | | looser
join:2001-02-04
La Mesa, CA | Most sheeple like you do go right after the conspiracy stuff, but in reality you know its the truth. | |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | Re: Which is it? Did or did not SBC make $8 billion last year? | |
| | | | | | jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS | Re: Which is it? They made it, but that doesn't mean they get to keep it. They still have to pay every worker, heat and cool every building they own, pay creditors etc. Just like you. That was before taxes etc. | |
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Rhobite
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| Re: Which is it? No, that was after everything. Their 2003 net income was $8.5 billion after all those expenses. However that includes about $2.5 billion due to accounting changes so a more accurate number is $6B. Still, I'd say that SBC is indeed "rolling in profits".
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Jimmysquid.com - I take pictures. | |
| | | | | | | Talis
join:2001-06-21
Houston, TX
| You're mistaken. The $8 billion was before taxes but it was not before payroll, utilities or loan payments. Their gross revenue was $40 billion, from which they paid their operating expenses. Net income, after tax, was $5.9 billion.
»www.hoovers.com/sbc-communicatio···al.xhtml | |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | Re: Which is it? Those poor, poor people. Only $5.9 billion. How will they feed their children? | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Conspiracy Theorists?
Are you crazy? Hiding income is considered accepted business practice. Even so, because Bells are publicly traded, they must release some numbers.... which show that profits are indeed excellent. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
 ·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Which is it? SBC reported profits slipped slightly for 1Q 2004, caused by people disconnecting traditional POTS lines. However, they also reported amazing growth in DSL subscriber lines, and new Long Distance service sales to customers, so future expectations look very rosy.
Also, they apparently paid down several billion dollars in debt, which is a good thing, but makes earnings look less impressive..... (IE 5 billion in after expenses-revenue looks worse when you chose to pay an extra 3 billion out to reduce debts, and then announce only 2 billion in final revenue)
Simply put, the Bells are doing great, Thank you very much.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | Re: Which is it? They're probably part of the 60% of corps that didn't pay any taxes as well. | |
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Rhobite
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Cambridge, MA
clubs: | Union workers and mismanagement. | |
| | jsauce
join:2002-03-07
Fitchburg, MA
| said by IanR :
How come all the Baby Bells are not rolling in massive profits then? Are their intrinsic high costs which need to be recovered or are they so badly managed?
Trust me they are. It's just they need to be able to afford those massive salaries and pensions for their CEOs and other officers of the company. They've been ganking us consumers for years and finally someone notices, much like every other company doing the same they will complain they are poor and the government will buy it. Of course the lobbyists greasing their palms helps too. | |
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| War tax Maybe one day we'll win that Spanish-American War and they'll remove that tax. 
Also I thought every state paid the $1 surcharge for touch tone dialing. I didn't realize it was only NJ. Doesn't surprise me though. They will eliminate the surcharge is you purchase one of their bundled packages or maybe it's just part of the bundle, who knows.
I found the marked up phone bill enlightening as I didn't know what half those charges were on my bill.
In any case, by the time Verizon and others fix their phone bill everyone will be using wireless.
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"snmp: the standard e-mail protocol on the Internet" - LinkSys user manual (page 17) | |
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pcscdma
Chocobo Chocobo Random Battle
Premium
join:2004-01-14
Winterset, IA
clubs:
| Re: War tax said by Morac :
Also I thought every state paid the $1 surcharge for touch tone dialing. I didn't realize it was only NJ.
Verizon does it in Bryan, TX.
Qwest so far hasn't done that. The last Qwest bills I paid were exactly $19.95 . The main charge for the unmetered line is somewhere around $12.65
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The smarter computers get, the more faith I put into Newton's 3rd law. | |
| 
Barney Bad Ass
| And we are supposed to be surprised by this??? Hmmmmm..... ever call the phone co. for help on any topic?? And with this report we're supposed to be surprised???
UGH!!! NOT!!!! | |
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technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA | Dirty Bell's I hate the bells, im on the edge of volunteering my time to teletruth if they would have me. I hate bellsouth =(. | |
| neftv
join:2000-10-01
Broomall, PA | I hope Teletruth gets that done. Because "we the people" are and want to be stupid or more like oblivious and just pay. Everyone around me seems to find it ok to just pay, especially when you have a State rep and Senator that don't see things like this as an issue. | |
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DivineDark
join:2001-08-30
Oklahoma City, OK
clubs: | SBC's fear I am so glad I have dropped my land line in favor of a wireless phone only. It costs way less and it is the same ammount every month. No surprises. | |
| | | neftv
join:2000-10-01
Broomall, PA
 ·Broadvox Direct
| Re: SBC's fear Yea I'm waiting for a local wireless internet provider to start a residential service soon. Once that is done I will drop the phone line. I will keep the VoIP service and a cell phone which both in themselves offer alot more services per dollar then Verizon ever has. | |
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Overdrive
Are You Where You Want To Be?
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Waterbury, CT | Taxes on taxes? There is still a tax from the 1800's on my phone bill? How funny is that?
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Need a Web Developer? | |
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Sisqo
World Champs. Babe Who?
Premium
join:2002-08-14
Methuen, MA
| Bruce is always good for a laugh. Funny I was thinking about this clown this morning, wondering where he has been. This guy is a joke, this guy battles the same industry that kicked him out years ago. His acusations only hold water in BBR, this guy get's laughed out of every courtroom in the country. Funnt I don't see him in rage about cable companies do I smell bitterness?
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No it's not a payphone, it's a portable phone! | |
| | 
Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting
| Re: Bruce is always good for a laugh. You know what I notice about you guys that don't like him?
You absolutely never mention specifics, and you never debate his actual information. It's an immediate jump toward character assasination. Just like when an ex Bush administration employee comes out claiming Iraq was agenda number one. Why is that?
It's always insults and absolutely ZERO actual reason. Read yours. "Clown", "Joke", "bitter", "laughed out of every courtroom in the country"...... | |
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rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
clubs:
| Re: Bruce is always good for a laugh. Well, I'd try, except that post is in something resembling English, but not English. When one does not seem to know fundamental principles, such as apostrophes are used for forming possessives and contractions (and I don't believe "get's" is either), it becomes difficult to interpret the author's thoughts. Plus, as you have mentioned, from what is legible, there are a ton of abstract accusations with no concrete specifics.
I'll just say it's mighty interesting how Verizon are allowed to list just "surcharges" without explaining anything. When I asked a Verizon CSR about this once, she explained these are from Buffalo, Erie County, and (it was a while ago) maybe even New York State. It's as if they couldn't afford the toner/ink to print from where the surcharge is being levied and for what reason.
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English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules. Blog is here | |
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Sisqo
World Champs. Babe Who?
Premium
join:2002-08-14
Methuen, MA
| Re: Bruce is always good for a laugh. said by rchandra :
I'll just say it's mighty interesting how Verizon are allowed to list just "surcharges" without explaining anything. When I asked a Verizon CSR about this once, she explained these are from Buffalo, Erie County, and (it was a while ago) maybe even New York State. It's as if they couldn't afford the toner/ink to print from where the surcharge is being levied and for what reason.
Thank You very much for the english lesson. I didnt excuse I mean "didn't" no or excuse me again "know" that my grammer why excuse me I just keep messing up, I meant my "grammar" was as important as the topic at hand.
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No it's not a payphone, it's a portable phone! | |
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Sisqo
World Champs. Babe Who?
Premium
join:2002-08-14
Methuen, MA
| I don't need to state any facts, because 95% of BBR will disagree with me because your too brainwashed to reason any facts. Your just "programmed" to hate anything that has "bell" attatched to it's name.
Please Bruce is for the people as much as any dirty politican or corporation trying to make $. "Yes send me your bill I will revise for any "errors" that the evil baby bell has STOLEN from you, & I will collect 50% of whatever credit you receive." For the people? Yeah so is the government. 
The guy is a clown that is my personal opinion, Verizon, SBC, Bellsouth are not perfect. But explain to me how cable companies price hikes & their shady tactics (other than bandwidth over usage) is almost never discussed about on BBR? Yet on a weekly basis there is some article about how some bell is doing something wrong. Ohhh & is this the part where you call me a bell shill?
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No it's not a payphone, it's a portable phone! | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
| | 
mocycler
Premium
join:2001-01-22
Naperville, IL
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Midwest
3 edits | said by Minister :
You absolutely never mention specifics, and you never debate his actual information.
You want specifics? OK.
TeleTruth is a for profit company. As a spinoff of Kushnick's New Networks consulting company, they are professional Bell bashers. That automatically puts his "information" in a suspicious light.
It would seem to me then, that Kushnick is not the altruistic crusader that he would like you to think he is. He does this for the money. In other words, he's a paid shill just like the ILEC spin doctors he claims to be fighting.
A cursory look at the TeleTruth website leads one to believe they are a grass roots consumer group fighting for the little guy. Heck, they even accept "donations". But if you dig around a bit you'll see that Kushnick earns a living doing this, so like any huckster salesman he has a vested interest in persuading as many people as possible that the Bells suck...and that interest has little to do with "concern" for consumer rights.
That's not to say Kushnick is never right. Indeed, there is much to be said about the business tactics of the Bells. But as long as Kushnick paints his own image in the veneer of a selfless activist while at the same time earning a good profit off it, his credibility will, rightfully, be questioned.
And that, specifically, is why I distrust him at least as much as I distrust the Bells...perhaps more so.
Peace,
mocycler | |
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Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting
| Re: Bruce is always good for a laugh. quote:
It would seem to me then, that Kushnick is not the altruistic crusader that he would like you to think he is. He does this for the money. In other words, he's a paid shill just like the ILEC spin doctors he claims to be fighting.
A Paid shill for who? Consumers? Oh no! I hate those greedy SOB's!  I'm going to guess the money he makes stuck in constant litigation against massive multi-billion dollar corporations with endless pockets isn't buying him mansions in the South of France.
I have no problem with eyeing his releases with skepticism, but again, do you see any claims that aren't accurate that you care to take issue with? That's a big long post questioning his legitimacy and motivation, but again....absolutely NO debate about anything he actually says....just like the guy above....(though more politely)..... | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Bruce is always good for a laugh. Ask yourself, why do ISP's, CLEC's, and other consumer groups support him or sit on the board.
Part of vast anti-Bell Conspiracy?
Or because they have been united by being on the receiving end of the Bell's shaftings? Anyone who ever ran/runs an independant ISP can go on and on about this....
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
| | 
sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| Funny that even though Bruce was "laughed out of courtrooms" they won a settlement in a class-action in New Jersey.
said by NewNetworks:
Class Action Suit Settlement for Small Businesses in New Jersey Our survey found multiple mistakes on customer phone bills. Teletruth has helped to initiate two class action suits based on the survey results. On March 30th, 2004, the first case against Verizon was settled. Our survey found that 40% of the small businesses under 5 lines in New Jersey were missing their discounts. Our second case found that at least 10% of small businesses were paying for non-existent 'special circuits', such as an alarm circuit.
And if you don't trust their website ("hey, maybe Bruce made this all up"), then here's a link:
»www.nj.com/search/index.ssf?/bas···ger?btel
This article isn't about cable, it's about phone bills and whether or not one should trust the total. I'm sure that if Bruce had the time and energy to go after the cable companies, the cell carriers and anyone else he would, but he knows the phone biz, so that's where he focuses his energy.
The only difference in opinion I see is that you believe this is an honest mistake, made hundreds of thousands of times while other people perhaps see it another way. I'd live very comfortably on the money made by billing every Verizon customer $0.01/month. Oh yeah, and "oops, we lost the billing records so we can't contact the people owed money". Yep, just a little error. Nothing to see here, move on. Bahhhhhhhh.
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Thanks for the memories | |
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Sisqo
World Champs. Babe Who?
Premium
join:2002-08-14
Methuen, MA
| Re: Bruce is always good for a laugh. sporkme I am not saying the charges are simple errors, you know the bells are regulated. So basically every charge that is on there is legit, does it stink? Yes it does! Am I going to start a thread every week on how much I hate bells? No I'm not, if I spent my time doing this I wouldn't do business with any company. No cable,no gas, no light, no internet,no wireless.
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No it's not a payphone, it's a portable phone! | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| Re: Bruce is always good for a laugh. said by Sisqo :
sporkme I am not saying the charges are simple errors, you know the bells are regulated. So basically every charge that is on there is legit,
The Bell's aren't regulated in this regard. They are regulated in line sharing and how much they can charge for that, but in what they charge for their own services no. About the only thing you can say is regulated is they are told to fork out money for certain things and are allowed to pass it on to the consumer. The problem is are they actually using this money for what its supposed to be for. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Bruce is always good for a laugh. said by Sisqo :
That is not what I'm debating, I am debating the fact that there are no NEW charges to point out, therefore these articles are repeating the same crap over & over & over.
Hmmm.
Maybe I am mistaken. Let me check....
quote:
"Funny I was thinking about this clown this morning, wondering where he has been. This guy is a joke, this guy battles the same industry that kicked him out years ago."
Nope. Wasn't mistaken.
As for your second post and thereafter, you seem to be saying is "Stop airing problems with the Bells. You must wait until they do something new and different before releasing another article." Why? Why not point out ONGOING and continuous problems? They haven't been fixed, and indeed, grow worse, and change and mutate. I think it's a good idea to stay on top of their junk.
Yes, allegations of overcharging is not new... but this report is new. I don't see why it should be silenced, just because some people think it reflects badly on the Telcos.
quote:
"Ohhh & is this the part where you call me a bell shill?"
Yup, guess so. After all,.Walks like Duck, Quacks like a Duck, etc etc
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| said by Sisqo :
That is not what I'm debating, I am debating the fact that there are no NEW charges to point out, therefore these articles are repeating the same crap over & over & over.
I wish you would have said that to begin with instead of making insulting comments toward both him and BBR. | |
| 
footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| nit picking The report is packed to the brim with complaints, asking questions such as if internal wiring breaks once every 16 years, why do users pay a monthly "inside wire maintenance" fee? If call waiting and caller ID cost a penny to provide, why are users still paying on average more than $7 a month?
If I remember correctly from when I first turned on my phone, that inside wire maintenance fee is an optional charge which the customer can choose to have on the bill or choose to not pay. It's basically an insurance premium so that you don't have to pay for a repair visit if a line goes bad inside your house.
As far as the call waiting thing, since when does price have anything to do with cost? You charge what the market is willing to pay. It costs about a nickel to provide a 32 ounce Pepsi, but you pay $1.50 for it at Hooters. Has this Kuchnick guy ever taken a business class or is he just a malcontent? | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Wireless is no better I'm getting PO'd because of the various additional fees and recovery charges that are getting added to my Cingular Wireless bill every month.
This last month, they included increases that were made with no advanced notice.
When I call to complain about the increases, I'm told flat-out that the FCC forces them to charge the fees and that I need to complain to the FCC.
BS!
I did complain to the FCC - I filed a cramming complaint.
This crap has got to stop. | |
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gruggni
Oxygen Gets You High
join:2003-07-28
Corpus Christi, TX
1 edit | Ebills = no paper Becareful if you start using ebills especially for SBC. Those bastards stopped sending me paper, and now I have to ask them (via website) for an electronic copy. It's one step better than contacting customer service. I am receiving an ebill with no automatic proof about what I am being billed. Bastards are hiding the facts about my phone and dsl, these dirty tricks just keep getting better. Hide the bill from customers, force them to deal with our website. Sneaky rat bastards, SBC (Sneaky Bell Consipracy) or (Swell Bunch of Chumps). | |
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See 7 replies to this post | |
copperdoctor
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Palatine, IL
| Broken wire Looking at the sample bill, I noticed one of the "dirty secret charges" they point out is the inside wire charge, and they claim that the inside wire breaks every 16 years.
While I have no hard numbers on whether this is true or not, I CAN tell you the look on the face of the customers who dont have wire maintenence is heartbreaking. And while it may be true that wires dont often break by themselves, they do often get help. Here are a few examples of how...and please keep in mind that in your area, dozens of telephone repairmen earn a living fixing these wires. They wouldnt if they didnt need to.
CORROSION
CRAYON JAMMED IN JACK
JACK RIPPED OUT OF WALL
BAD MICKEY MOUSE TELEPHONE
BAD $3 TELEPHONE
BAD BRAND NEW TELEPHONE THAT COULDNT BE BAD CUZ ITS BRAND NEW
BAD PHONE THAT WE HAD IN THE FAMILY FOR 40 YEARS AND NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH BEFORE
CAT CHEWING ON MOUNTING CORD
DOG CHEWING ON MOUNTING CORD
CAT PEEING ON JACK/WIRE
DOG PEEING ON WIRE
KIDS PLAYING WITH WIRES
HUSBAND PLAYING WITH WIRES
WIFE PLAYING WITH WIRES(OK, I MADE THAT UP,WOMEN ARE SMARTER)
FLOOD
FIRE
BAD ANSWERING MACHINE
BAD TIVO
BAD -INSERT ANYTHING YOU PLUG INTO A PHONE JACK THAT COULDNT POSSIBLE GO BAD HERE-
and my all time personal favorite...
2 LINE STORE BOUGHT SPLITTER IN ONE LINE JACK WITH 4 MORE SPLITTERS DAISYCHAINED TO ACCOMODATE A GRAND TOTAL OF 9 DIFFERENT ITEMS INCLUDING 2 CORDLESS TELEPHONES,A FAX MACHINE A COMPUTER MODEM,A CABLE TV BOX AND ANSWERING MACHINE AND 3 TIED UP MOUNTING CORDS LAYING IN A PUDDLE OF APPLE JUICE.
Take a tip from a guy who knows...pay now or pay later.;) | |
| | vesper9
join:1999-10-26 | Re: Broken wire Wait, you mean we're NOT supposed to pee on the phone lines? I thought that's how broadband got made!!  | |
| TNTaangela
join:2004-03-29
Smyrna, TN
| FCC charges The reason they list it as an FCC fee is because it is a fee approved by the FCC.
Nothing is allowed without approval by the FCC first. There are public hearings every time the phone company wants to add another fee to charge its customers. If the company puts a nice spin on it, and no one complains, the FCC says "sure, go ahead".
Have you ever gotten notice of an FCC hearing concerning a request by the phone company to add new fees to its service? I haven't.
So, if you want to know who the real culprit is, look at the FCC. | |
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