 
MSauk
MSauk
Premium
join:2002-01-17
Sandy, UT | Like they will ever listen They have too much invested already and pride will always be their downfall
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801 Images | |
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 | BBBanditRuR
join:2009-06-02
Parachute, CO
 ·Comcast
 ·Qwest.net
| Re: Like they will ever listen Exactly. Make your content affordable, accessible and DRM free, people will buy it. I use Vuze and buy music/Netflix etc...
Q. MPAA/RIAA Why aren't you guys jumping on this idea?
A. ....I'm sorry I didn't catch that. I need to take the LSD from the Vinyl 70's nostalgia business model off my face. | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
3 edits | Re: Magic said by jmn1207  :It's not as if the copyrighted material just becomes available so it can be pirated without someone putting it there in the first place. Many of these pirates also have a considerable amount of interest in this media, otherwise they would not have looked for methods to obtain it for free. With enthusiasts looking to support one of their hobbies, it's no surprise to me that this group comprises the top of the purchase/rental crowd for this stuff. And why should we believe Vuze in this matter. They are only a little better than Pirate Bay in what they do. It is just that they have smarter PR people to put a nice cover on their business. Their TOS says no making available of copyrighted material, but they depend on that discredited system of removing the illegal content only if they are notified(every single time someone else uploads the same illegal content).
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| personally i think in ALL copyright cases nowdays the judge should force the RIAA to prove there was a legit downloadable version on the date of the infaction. if no legit download version was available on that date then the case is automatically thrown out.
if anything it would push the music industry to put their ENTIRE library online for download from the various services. and then they would have ground to stand on in court.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD | RIAA = Movie Tickets, DVDs, Movie Rentals? Sorry, just trying to figure out what the RIAA has to do with movies. | |
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Assman
join:2007-11-06
Dildo, NL | What's Vuze? What's Vuze? Never heard of it. | |
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| theyipper
join:2001-01-18
Oakland, CA | Re: What's Vuze? It's an offspring of Azureus (an early BT client). | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Yep! Downloaded Cars - bought the Blu-ray!
Downloaded Meet The Robinsons - bought the Blu-ray!
Downloaded I, Robot - bought the Blu-ray!
Downloaded Hellboy - bought the Blu-ray!
Downloaded Transformers - bought the Blu-ray!
Downloaded Fantastic Four: ROTSS - bought the Blu-ray!
Downloaded Serenity - bought the Blu-ray!
More, but you all get the point(I hope).
Imagine that!
Did the same with a shitload more movies, on DVD before Blu-ray - but I really don't want to list them all here.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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Logan 5
Silver and Black and blue in 2009
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-25
The WasteLAN
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: Yep! said by dadkins :Downloaded Cars - bought the Blu-ray! Downloaded Meet The Robinsons - bought the Blu-ray! Downloaded I, Robot - bought the Blu-ray! Downloaded Hellboy - bought the Blu-ray! Downloaded Transformers - bought the Blu-ray! Downloaded Fantastic Four: ROTSS - bought the Blu-ray! Downloaded Serenity - bought the Blu-ray! More, but you all get the point(I hope). Imagine that! Did the same with a shitload more movies, on DVD before Blu-ray - but I really don't want to list them all here. WOW, an intelligent customer who has used the expanding role that Video and the internet are growing in to, to his advantage as well as theirs....
20 lashes with a wet subpoena to you Mr. Dadkins, you've been a naughty boy and we must punish you even though the content you've purchased over the years at our inflated pricing has helped our bottom line....
Or, as Mr. Makey from South Park would say: Downloads are BAD mmmkay?, p2p is BAD mmmkay? Greed is good....VERY good indeed.... | |
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jwersan
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, and Max.
Premium
join:2004-12-20
Port Jefferson Station, NY
clubs:
·Optimum Online
| Re: Yep! said by dadkins :Yeah, no shit... huh?  All because I watched a rip and thought I would like a BETTER copy to have for myself and family/friends. Had I not watched the movies, I doubt I would have purchased them. I could have written this myself. There are NUMEROUS CDs in my collection that NEVER would have been there had P2P not existed, as that was the avenue I ultimately used to find a song I was looking for, saw that it was part of an $80 collection of CDs and BOUGHT it.
Who'd a thunk! 
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RIAA/MPAA... Bite me!!!!
In constant search for intelligent life on Earth! | |
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felony
no pants
join:1999-12-05
Aurora, CO
clubs: | Hellboy sucked! | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Yep! said by MarkAW :I use Vuze as well and like dadkins dowloaded a shit load of movies with Vuze and bought most of them when they came out later on Blu-ray and DVD. Damn Right!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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winsyrstrife
River City Bounce
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:
| Re: Yep! Amen.
I can't trust the crap Hollywood puts out the majority of the year. I could just watch the DVDs my mom always buys of pretty much any movie. There are many movies, however, that I have bought blu-ray versions of, so I can enjoy them on my large screen, with friends, etc. All of these movies are movies that I definitely would not have bought had I not downloaded them first.
0 $$, or a lot of $$. Tough choice for the big wigs.
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"Suddenly everything is fainting, falling from a broken ladder's rung. There's a jolt exhilarating from the phone I'm holding...I hear the words of what I'll become, how eager the hands that reach for love." - Blind Melon - New Life | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by MarkAW :I use Vuze as well and like dadkins dowloaded a shit load of movies with Vuze and bought most of them when they came out later on Blu-ray and DVD. WOW all 2 people that actually do that posted here. Here's an idea, if it's not out yet on DVD or blu-ray, GO TO THE MOVIES. | |
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MarkAW
Barry White or lil bratt
Premium
join:2001-08-27
Canada | Re: Yep! Why when i can get it for free and if i like it buy it later. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: Yep! said by MarkAW :Why when i can get it for free and if i like it buy it later. Why pay for that car? I'll steal it now and pay for it later if I like it. Where is it written you are entitled to something for FREE and only pay IF you like it? | |
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MarkAW
Barry White or lil bratt
Premium
join:2001-08-27
Canada
·Bell Sympatico
·Cogeco Cable
| Re: Yep! said by BF69 :said by MarkAW :Why when i can get it for free and if i like it buy it later. Why pay for that car? I'll steal it now and pay for it later if I like it. Where is it written you are entitled to something for FREE and only pay IF you like it? Who says i paid for my car? Where is it written that i am not entitled to something for free and pay if i like it?
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The greatest mistake you can make in life is to be continuously fearing you will make one.
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Sodoshi
join:2009-04-27
Canton, OH
·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: Yep! In response to viewing first, then buying:
That would apply to all TV shows that are not on cable (well, back when anything good was on regular networks). You basically saw them for free (OTA), then if you wanted you could buy the VHS/DVD.
Same goes for books to me, you can view it for free at libraries and some bookstores, if you like it you can buy it. | |
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| | | | | ja78
join:2005-10-23
Springfield, IL | you get to take a car for a test drive before you buy it.... and not just 30 seconds in the parking lot. | |
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| | | shortyd999
join:2008-10-21
Birmingham, AL | In response to MarkAW and BF69....I do the same thing..I use Vuze all the time..and still purchase movies(BluRay and DVD if there isnt a BluRay verison) for my big screen... | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| said by BF69 :said by MarkAW :I use Vuze as well and like dadkins dowloaded a shit load of movies with Vuze and bought most of them when they came out later on Blu-ray and DVD. WOW all 2 people that actually do that posted here. Here's an idea, if it's not out yet on DVD or blu-ray, GO TO THE MOVIES. Here's a bit of information for you - I *CAN'T* go to the movies.
Not that I would ever want to sit in an uncomfortable seat, with smelly people, sticky floors, the constant munching of popcorn and rustling of wrappers, assholes talking, etc.
Yeah, that would be much more pleasant than sitting anywhere *I* choose and watching in peace - then deciding
"Hey! That was a Great movie! I'll go buy it!!!".
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by dadkins :Downloaded Cars - bought the Blu-ray! Downloaded Meet The Robinsons - bought the Blu-ray! Downloaded I, Robot - bought the Blu-ray! Downloaded Hellboy - bought the Blu-ray! Downloaded Transformers - bought the Blu-ray! Downloaded Fantastic Four: ROTSS - bought the Blu-ray! Downloaded Serenity - bought the Blu-ray! More, but you all get the point(I hope). Imagine that! Did the same with a shitload more movies, on DVD before Blu-ray - but I really don't want to list them all here. There's an old saying the exception that proves the rule. Just because YOU do that doesn't mean everyone else does. I fact MOST don't by a VAST majority. Quit justifying your illegal actions. Why not just by the blu-ray?
Oh by the way someone who has already downloaded a movie then PAYS for a legit copy is kind of stupid. Kind of like stealing a DVD from wal-mart then going back and buying the same DVD. | |
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| | Desdinova
join:2003-01-26
Gaithersburg, MD
1 edit | Re: Yep! Many folks download a lo-res version of the film and use that to decide if they like it or not. If they do, then they go buy a higher quality copy that will allow them to enjoy the film in greater detail AND compensate the creators for their work. If the film blows, then it's deleted and never mentioned again. Yes, some folks are perfectly happy with a crappy quality download and have no intention of ever buying the DVD. I doubt that those folks watch it very often, either. But the group being discussed are those that do use the download as a test drive prior to deciding to buy or not.
It's the difference between checking a book out of the library for a one-time read or buying the book so you can enjoy it whenever you want to. | |
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occasionaluser
@comcast.net
| Re: Yep! Umm.. he DID buy the BluRay dumba$$, thats what he was saying. He used it to try the movie out before he bought it and he likely never would have bought the movie if he hadn't tried it out first.
It's not stupid at all - it's people recognizing that content producers have to be rewarded for both production and quality. It's just trying before you buy it without permission that is irking them. The other group of media consumers, those who download and never pay, are those who typically don't have the money to buy anyways. It's unauthorized use, but not lost profit, because they didn't have the money to buy it anyways. I'm not saying that makes it right, i'm just saying it's stupid for certain groups to keep exaggerating their losses in a pathetic bid for sympathy when they already milk their own artists to ridiculous levels. Going to one concert by an artist gives them more profit than buying 20 CD's, it's the record companies that make the most money.
And what do you mean the exception that proves the rule? The statistics just PROVED that the people who "steal" movies and such via P2P buy far more than the people who dont, as a statistic whole aggregate, and that's even taking into account the "cant afford" crowd of college students and stuff who never buy. The message to hollywood is clear - just get out of the way of the sale, quit being so control-freaky that you are cutting into your own sales.
For what its worth the legitimacy of copyright owners claims vary. The RIAA is ridiculously abusive and uses extortion. "Oh gee, I can listen to this music for free on FM or at the library but if I dare to listen to it on mp3 they will sue me". They spend a small amount on production and still charge $15 for CD's made in the 1940's extorting the artists and the listeners. I dont download RIAA music and I dont buy it at all anymore, I consider the entire industry contemptable.
Movies have a somewhat better argument. They cost tens of millions to make and yet you can buy some of them for $5 a few years later at Walmart, it's almost shameful to be so cheap to not fork over that. When a movie is on bittorrent before the theaters that can cause lost profit although any good movie is worth seeing in the theater. However i've seen movies on divx that friends downloaded that made me later see it in the theater or buy it on BluRay because I wouldn't have known about it otherwise. So much crap is put out it's hard to know whats worth risking $9 on. I've started watching a divx friends have gotten for 20 mins and then said "I HAVE to see this 'big'" and gone to the theater or bought the BluRay that day.
For myself I dont download music at all (although friends have borrowed me indie CD's of stuff they've downloaded and then i've bought, should I be arrested for unauthorized listening via the borrowed CD?) nor do I download any movie available either in the theater or for rent but i've downloaded rarer movies I can't find for rent to see if I want to buy them (and half the time I do) and TV episodes (which is just timeshifting, the first episode is never on when you want to get into a new series) and often bought the DVD's of the series when they turned out good, like House.
I know that if everyone's P2P were shut off and I couldn't download or borrow I wouldn't know whats good anymore and would buy less than half of what I do now. | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| said by dadkins :Downloaded Cars - bought the Blu-ray! [...] More, but you all get the point(I hope). Even more, is the impact on movie franchises (movies with prequels and sequels and spinoffs):
Downloaded Transformers while in Europe. Hadn't seen it in the theatres and wanted something English-language to watch. Got back home and bought the title on BluRay and am looking forward to the release of the sequel. Were it not for BitTorrent, I'd have *never* watched or bought the first one, nor would I have had any plans to see any sequels.
Given how misleading the average trailer/TV commercial/etc. for movies are, it's *really* the only way to tell if you want to see or buy the movie. I mean, movie tickets at the damned mid-week matinees are $10.50/seat and nighttime showings are even more expensive. Why am I gonna blow $30 on tickets for my wife and I if I don't *know* it's going to be worth seeing?
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | CRIMINAL TERRORIST!
EXECUTE HIM NOW!!
(That's sarcasm) | |
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AnonDOG
@kaballero.com
| Re: Yep! said by KrK :CRIMINAL TERRORIST! EXECUTE HIM NOW!! (That's sarcasm) Damn, I was for it... | |
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| Desdinova
join:2003-01-26
Gaithersburg, MD
| Re: This report is awesome If those are indeed the demographics then it seems that there's an advertising goldmine waiting to be tapped. The 18-35 year old male has traditionally been the hardest group to market to and with the popularity of console video games, they've been even more difficult to reach (more time spent playing games means less time watching TV or surfing the 'net...which is why some of the more aggressive companies have made inroads to product placement in video games themselves).
So maybe the content creators should do a bit more research on confirming those numbers and then tailor the content so that they reach more potential customers? | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Stupid article "Studies continually show that users who pirate content via BitTorrent also buy more content than regular users."
Does this even make sense? Now if I said to you that shoplifters bought more stuff at wal-mart than non-shoplifters would you think that made sense? Would wal-mart let people start shoplifting? No. If I'm the type of person that downloads stuff of BitTorrent then WHY would I ever pay? Why would I steal some stuff and not others? The author of this article is talking out of his ass. | |
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SuperWISP
join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY | Vuze is not exactly a trustworthy source. Remember, they used to be Azureus, which shamelessly promoted piracy. And Vuze has still been pointing users at pirated material. | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| Re: Vuze is not exactly a trustworthy source. said by SuperWISP :Remember, they used to be Azureus, which shamelessly promoted piracy. And Vuze has still been pointing users at pirated material. Umm... That's kind of the point of the article: that people that download those pirated materials frequently convert to the licensed, hard-media versions.
Case in point: me. There's a number of movies that I had no interest in seeing at the theatre, renting or buying. But, because I was in Europe and needed something English-language to watch, I downloaded a bunch of movies. Since coming home, I've bought those movies that I liked.
Ugh... People that fight this are the same kinds of people that think listening stations at record stores were a bad idea.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell | |
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captnobvious
@verizon.com
 from:
dadkins
| it's all about try b4 you buy it if you could, why wouldn't you? some of those movies dadkins listed flat out suck. why just buy it and hate it?
try b4 u buy. ymmv | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: it's all about try b4 you buy it said by captnobvious :
if you could, why wouldn't you? some of those movies dadkins listed flat out suck. why just buy it and hate it?
try b4 u buy. ymmv
EXACTLY!
See, I liked them and purchased them.
You don't like some of them so you wouldn't.
That is completely understandable!
That's also the whole freakin point that some people just don't get.
Crap is crap and only you or I can decide what you or I wish to purchase.
I go Best Buy to try out laptops.
I have never just bought one and taken it home.
Guess that makes me a bad cowsumer - Cool! 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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AnonDOG
@kaballero.com
| Studies continually show that users who pirate content via B ... and so we believe that that makes piracy OK, eh Karl?
Really, Karl, Lets try it this way. Studies continually show that people who speed and are fined by the state are frequently fined more often than people who do not speed and are not fined by the state.
Which part of IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU DO AFTER YOU STEAL A VIDEO IS HARD FOR YOU?
Dude, I am sorry. I see no reason to talk up all this trash about how piracy feeds the coffers. It doesn't and if you are really foolish enough to believe that, you are deluding yourself.
Mind you, there is an other side to the coin and that is why this WISP tells the RIAA, and whomever else that demands we turn someone off that they must pay us an "engineering" fee to get us to do that. I should also point out that they never call back, we never get the fee and until they decide that they want to pay for our time, they are never going to get service from us.
Really, though, dude, get over this RIAA crap. Get over this self delusion that people who pirate buy more. They just don't. Let me ask you, how many songs are on your system that you did not pay for? How many movies? Why, then are you lying to yourself and the rest of the planet?
Just admit it. People who pirate content are stealing from the authors of that content because they don't want to pay for that content. Just speak truth. Just be honest with yourselves. It is not complicated, hard, and it requires no moral contortions.
People who pirate software, music, or video *ARE* thieves and that IS the truth, even when they want to bull shit themselves and the rest of the planet. | |
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slckusr
Premium
join:2003-03-17
Maumee, OH | yea... I've purchased more media lately. I haven't downloaded as much (illegal) media lately.
Seems to be working the opposite for me. | |
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richdelb
Go Hawks Go
Premium
join:2003-01-22
Algonquin, IL
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Still Protesting I have STILL not purchased a CD since Napster fell victim, in protest. I used to purchase a new CD about once a week.
I DID purchase a music DVD, but only after seeing the content in low quality via You-Tube. If someone didn't "pirate" that content, I would not have made that purchase.
I do "pay" for content, indirectly, via XMRadio or on-line via Pandora, but I sill won't go out and purchase a new music CD.
Every time I read about the RIAA, I smile inside knowing that I am screwing them over all the time, just by doing NOTHING. | |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
| Self-serving enabler Finds Self-serving Results Big surprise (not) -- that a self-serving enabler find results that people who are self-serving would like to see and believe.
The rationalizations for stealing run thick online. Self-serving miscreants engage in all manner of excuses for their transgressive and selfish behaviors. What happened to these people, to have them forget the most fundamental lessons learned in kindergarten: It's not yours unless the person who's it is gives it to you -- it's not sharing if you take it.
And people wonder why television is getting so polluted with cheaper programming and so much more polluted with commercials... it is because these selfish, spoiled brats choose to engage in behaviors where they make up their own 2-for-1 discounts, instead of paying the price that is offered. The value of offering programming to view is decreasing -- and rapidly. Eventually, if left unchecked, folks will be far better off investing in T-Bills than making television shows, and so television will just become 500 channels of Home Shopping, thanks to the miscreants who choose to rationalized their piracy. | |
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El Quintron
Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Acanac
| It's a distribution issue... To clarify all biases here, I'm firmly on the pirate side, and I don't think any type of non-commerical infringements should be criminal offences.
Now that that's out of the way I can move on to my point.
Most independent musicians and filmakers in Canada (and in the states probably) have already moved to a digital medium of distribution, exploring alternative revenue streams.
The p2p (or future protocol) genie isn't going back into the bottle, and the numbers of people using these methods to access media isn't going to shrink anytime soon.
Larger media industries (RI/MPAA Members) are wasting their efforts fighting this one when they should be focusing their energies on expanding into alternative revenue streams that this new business model provides.
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Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. | |
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| shortyd999
join:2008-10-21
Birmingham, AL | Re: It's a distribution issue... Good Point El Quintron | |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
1 edit | TV Week: Why Content's Kingdom is Slipping Away http://www.tvweek.com/blogs/2009/06/uneasy-lies-the-head-that-wears-the-crown-why-contents-kingdom-is-slipping-away.php
The most interesting points I saw:
Demand for entertainment stays relatively constant because demand is largely a function of both cost and consumer’s limited leisure time. In contrast, supply — in the form of both user-generated content (UGC) and pirated content (as well an array of popular video games) — has grown enormously in the last decade.
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As a result, technological innovation reduces the market share of paid professional content, and increases the market share of UGC and pirated content.
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Both [professional and UGC] content have value. The problem is that, unfortunately, there does not seem to be room for both unlimited quantities of UGC and a wide selection of paid professional content.
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The fundamental questions are these: Are we willing to let newspapers disappear, blockbuster movies succumb to piracy and novels be confined to self-publishing? ... UGC is here to stay, and so is piracy. The problems are complex, and the solutions unclear. I think this paints a very clear picture of the problems facing media, in general, in our country. I like how Handel drew the parallel between entertainment, and news (the integrity of which he placed even above that of entertainment).
He's generous when he says the solutions are "unclear". He seems very resistant to the idea that there may not be any solution that achieves what the content side of things wants. I think a lot of folks in the industry are not willing to face the fact that the things are never going back to where they used to be. Once the market share for paid professional content is splintered, the challenge is to try to keep what you have left. There isn't much hope of getting people to give up their free or cheap UGC, once it has secured some share of the market, when the alternative is to pay big bucks for professional content. The only hope for any market share recovery comes from fighting the other source of loss of market share: piracy. Yet every attempt to do so is met (at least in the blogs) with rapacious condemnations from pirates and other supporters of the "everything for nothing" philosophy of Entitlement Mentality.
What the article doesn't cover is the impact on the consumer. I doubt many consumers realize how their actions or inactions, with regard to UGC and piracy, end up depriving themselves, down the road, of the higher quality content that they also would like to have. By weakening professional content, we're basically condemning ourselves to a morass of drek. | |
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One Man's Pirate Is Another Man's Customer
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Magic
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RIAA cannot stomach their own Bologna!
The music industry attempted to sell consumers on DVD Audio and the Super Audio Compact Disc. Obviously the music industry believed that consumers could be convinced to purchase music recorded on a higher quality format.