 
S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL | Nothing is sacred... Why don't people change the defaults....I guess alpha-numeric is too big of a concept to grasp! | |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ | Re: Nothing is sacred... It's our plug and play culture. People just want to plug in things and have them work.
Security? What's that? | |
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| | PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
| Re: Nothing is sacred... said by Eat Me  :It's our plug and play culture. People just want to plug in things and have them work. Security? What's that? Heh, 5 networks in range of me at home are still carrying the SSID's:
linksys
d-link
belkin
eHome | |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Nothing is scared... There is no evidence that an available SSID causes any significant security risk, in and of itself. It's weak or non-existent encryption; weak or non-existent passwords that make or break a routers security.
I manage dozens of routers that fall squarely in the zone for this bot. They're all running dd-wrt. I use MAC filtering and TPIK enhanced WPA2. My passwords are sufficiently strong, so I don't worry about having telnet and http access available via the web/LAN.
They're not going to get infected by this thing; not one.
However, I'm tempted to throw one out there as a honeypot so I can get a look at this bug.
The interesting thing will be how we deal with it. With a PC virus, we update our virus defs and maybe scan the system. Then we forget about it.
With this, we'd have to update the firmware, to either treat or prevent infection. That will mean having to enter our settings from scratch. That's a pain.
For giggles I stopped by the dd-wrt forums to see what they make of the bug and I found a grand total of 1 thread w/ 2 posts; neither by a mod. I had hoped for something a bit more proactive. Perhaps after enough news blurbs connecting their firmware with the bot, they'll feel a bit more attentive.
NV
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In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. | |
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TomClancy
Freedom isn't free
join:2003-04-23
... | Re: Nothing is scared... DD-WRT makes you change your password and your username before you can change any settings in the router.
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Freedom isn't free! | |
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| | | | kpatz
MY HEAD A SPLODE
Premium
join:2003-06-13
Manchester, NH
| said by Noah Vail :The interesting thing will be how we deal with it. With a PC virus, we update our virus defs and maybe scan the system. Then we forget about it. With this, we'd have to update the firmware, to either treat or prevent infection. That will mean having to enter our settings from scratch. That's a pain. From what I've read, at present this malware doesn't touch the firmware, instead it loads into (volatile) RAM and runs from there; thus, it's gone as soon as you powercycle the router.
So, if something gets infected, just disconnect it from the WAN, powercycle it, then change the password to something stronger and/or disable telnet/ssh, plug it back in, and you're set.
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To ISPs: Leave our ports alone! If I want ports blocked, I'll do it myself, thank you. | |
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DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| said by Eat Me :It's our plug and play culture. People just want to plug in things and have them work. Security? What's that? ya just like... watching stupid tv shows without actually thinking about if its actually a good show. | |
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dcurrey
Premium
join:2004-06-29 | I am in range of 3 wireless networks. 2 of them are close enough to connect to. Even logged into routers. Guess I should change the default password for them at least. | |
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| | | PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
| Re: Nothing is sacred... said by aefstoggaflm :said by dcurrey :I am in range of 3 wireless networks. 2 of them are close enough to connect to. Even logged into routers. Guess I should change the default password for them at least. I would not do that, if I were you. Because connecting to another network that you do not own is illegal. That's not entirely accurate.
First of all, there's no federal law as of yet of such and such cases are being handled on either a state by state or municipality by municipality case basis.
Secondly, connecting to another network you do not known is not illegal. "Maliciously" connecting to another network you do not own is illegal.
Additionally, Simply the wording alone of what you stated is too broad and makes the entire premise of the internet illegal, after all, aren't you merely "connecting to another network that you do not own"? | |
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| | | | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| Re: Nothing is sacred... said by PapaMidnight :said by aefstoggaflm :said by dcurrey :I am in range of 3 wireless networks. 2 of them are close enough to connect to. Even logged into routers. Guess I should change the default password for them at least. I would not do that, if I were you. Because connecting to another network that you do not own is illegal. That's not entirely accurate. First of all, there's no federal law as of yet of such and such cases are being handled on either a state by state or municipality by municipality case basis. Secondly, connecting to another network you do not known is not illegal. "Maliciously" connecting to another network you do not own is illegal. Additionally, Simply the wording alone of what you stated is too broad and makes the entire premise of the internet illegal, after all, aren't you merely "connecting to another network that you do not own"? another thing to add to yours is that if it where 100% illegal to connect to wifi that isnt yours then 1000s of windows users would be guilty without pushing a button. i have seen winXP laptops that see default SSID'd WLANs with no security and just autoconnect with no user input.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | | | k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
| said by PapaMidnight :said by aefstoggaflm :said by dcurrey :I am in range of 3 wireless networks. 2 of them are close enough to connect to. Even logged into routers. Guess I should change the default password for them at least. I would not do that, if I were you. Because connecting to another network that you do not own is illegal. That's not entirely accurate. First of all, there's no federal law as of yet of such and such cases are being handled on either a state by state or municipality by municipality case basis. Secondly, connecting to another network you do not known is not illegal. "Maliciously" connecting to another network you do not own is illegal. Additionally, Simply the wording alone of what you stated is too broad and makes the entire premise of the internet illegal, after all, aren't you merely "connecting to another network that you do not own"? Lets start our own lawyer firm  .
But in all reality, connecting to a network that you do not have authorization for is most likely illegal as its not *your* network. If you leave the door open to your house, does that give the right to walk in and out as I please?
As far as using network resources, that is illegal - revisiting the concept of the open door. Is it legal for me to walk in your house and turn on your faucet to fill my glass with water that you pay for? Even if you have access to a system, resource, or wireless router does NOT mean you have authorization to use said items. Accessing a system, resource, or wireless router without authorization IS illegal. | |
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james
join:2001-02-26
antarctica
| Re: Nothing is sacred... said by k1ll3rdr4g0n :If you leave the door open to your house, does that give the right to walk in and out as I please? No, but if you lived around here someone would close the door for you if it seemed the right thing to do. I've closed my neighbors backyard gate and back door many times when the dog has opened it (smart dog). Yeah, it's trespassing, but intent has more to do with criminal charges than you seem to realise. | |
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| | | | | | k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
1 edit | Re: Nothing is sacred... said by damonlab :said by k1ll3rdr4g0n :If you leave the door open to your house, does that give the right to walk in and out as I please? said by k1ll3rdr4g0n :Is it legal for me to walk in your house and turn on your faucet to fill my glass with water that you pay for? The discussion is about computers and wireless networks. Discussion of houses, doors, faucets, and glasses of water is an entirely different topic that is not applicable to computers and wireless networks. Isn't that a Red Herring? This is the one place that is very easy to point out fallacies in people's "arguments". It's so much fun .
Not to lead this down a off topic thread. But for the kids following at home what I was used was called an anology, a defense lawyer (or an argument that a District attorney) can use in the court room that is filled with the accused peers. | |
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aefstoggaflm
Open Source Fan
Premium
join:2002-03-04
Bethlehem, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by PapaMidnight :said by aefstoggaflm :said by dcurrey :I am in range of 3 wireless networks. 2 of them are close enough to connect to. Even logged into routers. Guess I should change the default password for them at least. I would not do that, if I were you. Because connecting to another network that you do not own is illegal. That's not entirely accurate. First of all, there's no federal law as of yet of such and such cases are being handled on either a state by state or municipality by municipality case basis. Secondly, connecting to another network you do not known is not illegal. "Maliciously" connecting to another network you do not own is illegal. Additionally, Simply the wording alone of what you stated is too broad and makes the entire premise of the internet illegal, after all, aren't you merely "connecting to another network that you do not own"? Ok, I will correct my self...
Because connecting to another network that you do not own and you do not have permission to connect to, is illegal.
^^
Does that make you happy?
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Please use the "yellow (IM) envelope" to contact me and please leave the URL intact. | |
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DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| said by aefstoggaflm :said by dcurrey :I am in range of 3 wireless networks. 2 of them are close enough to connect to. Even logged into routers. Guess I should change the default password for them at least. I would not do that, if I were you. Because connecting to another network that you do not own is illegal. where do you people get this shit
its not illegal, you are not breaking in . | |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| Re: Nothing is sacred... said by DJMASACRE :said by aefstoggaflm :said by dcurrey :I am in range of 3 wireless networks. 2 of them are close enough to connect to. Even logged into routers. Guess I should change the default password for them at least. I would not do that, if I were you. Because connecting to another network that you do not own is illegal. where do you people get this shit its not illegal, you are not breaking in . Because it is 100% true and accurate. If you connect to and then use a Wireless Network without the prior express permission of the owner of that Network then you are a thief performing an illegal act that is punishable under the Law.
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What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? | |
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DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Nothing is sacred... said by Doctor Olds :Because it is 100% true and accurate. If you connect to and then use a Wireless Network without the prior express permission of the owner of that Network then you are a thief performing an illegal act that is punishable under the Law. Which Law section is that again ? | |
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| | | PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
| Re: Nothing is sacred... said by en102 :I personally use Ethernet over powerline - HDX101 200Mbps bridge. Better range, more stable, and doesn't mess up with my bluetooth. Also expensive as hell. | |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Nothing is sacred... said by PapaMidnight :said by en102 :I personally use Ethernet over powerline - HDX101 200Mbps bridge. Better range, more stable, and doesn't mess up with my bluetooth. Also expensive as hell. »www.jr.com/netgear/pe/NTG_HDX101/ -$66.94 ea delivered.
You ARE on a tight budget.
NV
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In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. | |
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sapo
The Internet is Down
Premium
join:2002-09-16
Sacramento, CA | Re: Nothing is sacred... No, it's just expensive. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by S_engineer :Why don't people change the defaults....I guess alpha-numeric is too big of a concept to grasp! Probably because there's no real incentive to do so. ISPs won't disconnect users who do not take security seriously.
However, most off-the-shelf routers have these ports plugged by default. The same usually goes for remote access to the router. In most cases, someone would have to go out of their way to open these ports or enable remote web access to a router.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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SSX4life
Premium
join:2004-02-13
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Nothing is sacred... um..... i've got DDWRT v. 24 but no defaults and a fairly heavy password.
should I disable SSH even though I use it from time to time? =/
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»www.google.com is your best friend... please use it before asking your question. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Nothing is sacred... said by SSX4life :should I disable SSH even though I use it from time to time? =/ Personally I use a VPN to get into my home network. I used to have SSH open when I had a linux box on the other end but I disabled root logins and had a pretty strong password for the other accounts. I never had a problem.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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| | | PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
1 edit | said by SSX4life :um..... i've got DDWRT v. 24 but no defaults and a fairly heavy password. should I disable SSH even though I use it from time to time? =/ Yes. I'd suggest just using a VPN and Telnet. I used to keep a PPTP server open for myself. | |
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TomClancy
Freedom isn't free
join:2003-04-23
... | I don't, I guess as long your password is not hard to guess and you limit the number of wrong passwords entered you'll be fine.
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Freedom isn't free! | |
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| | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | Re: Nothing is sacred... True. But ISPs could do "rebates" like ATT does for Wireless Routers. All 2Wire routers come with some sort of WEP or other security setting turned on. Each is also different for each router. And they print the code bottom next to the MAC address. | |
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| | | | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | Re: Nothing is sacred... thats also what i said. ATT does this with 2-Wire | |
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| | | | PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
| said by hottboiinnc :True. But ISPs could do "rebates" like ATT does for Wireless Routers. All 2Wire routers come with some sort of WEP or other security setting turned on. Each is also different for each router. And they print the code bottom next to the MAC address. You aren't seriously suggesting WEP is "security"? :P
Though I have seen cases, especially with people still using old 802.11b equipment - though they may have g routers (And why replace it? It works for them) - be limited to using WEP. | |
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| | | | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | Re: Nothing is sacred... it's better than nothing and your regular next door neighbor isn't going to know how to crack it. | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| what is needed is something like SIM cards for wifi, and the router would have a little slot in it for programing the cards. buy a new wifi gadget it has a little SIM slot, you pop out the card, slide it into the router and push the "secure" button, card is programed, place in device and off you go.
on initial setup the router would only ask for what you want the network name to be. it would internally setup the rest and the cards would be programed with the right info.
main and glaring hole of course with this is connecting to networks other then your own. but im sure a userfriendly work around could be done, im thinking a "travel mode" switch that would disconnect the SIM(so that someone couldnt try and DL its data when on say a coffee shop network).
but maybe i am thinking too much into wireless security for absolute idiots.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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ztmike
Mark for moderation
Premium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN
1 edit | default Okay..yes this a is a n00b question..but how do you change the default password on a wrt54g? I been meaning to do it but haven't bothered to look up how..
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»www.ps3grid.net | |
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Kilroy
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-21
Sterling Heights, MI | Targeting Dumb People? Then I guess they will have a plethora of targets. God loves dumb people, look at how many he made.
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When will the people realize that with DRM they aren't purchasing anything? | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Targeting Dumb People? said by Kilroy :Then I guess they will have a plethora of targets. God loves dumb people, look at how many he made. ROFL! Ya think? 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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| DarkLogix
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
·Comcast Workplace
·Comcast
| Ya (have you ever checked to see how smart someone with an average IQ of 100 really is)
(based on just IQ 92% of people are below George Bush in IQ lol)
And to the open door thing someone mentioned
entering a locked house without permission is breaking amd entering but entering an unlocked house while not nice is not illegal in many places
just like hoping on an open wifi is legal but breaking into a secure wifi is illigal | |
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DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Targeting Dumb People? said by DarkLogix :Ya (have you ever checked to see how smart someone with an average IQ of 100 really is) (based on just IQ 92% of people are below George Bush in IQ lol) And to the open door thing someone mentioned entering a locked house without permission is breaking amd entering but entering an unlocked house while not nice is not illegal in many places just like hoping on an open wifi is legal but breaking into a secure wifi is illigal that sounds right .
People think Paris Hilton New BFF is a good TV show hahahahahha | |
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Dave547457
@verizon.net | Dumb people? I don't think people who don't change the defaults are necessarily dumb. | |
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| Airwolf7
Premium
join:2004-12-12
Franklin, KY
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Dumb people? Some might be dumb. I would like to think that most are just ignorant. Ignorance can be cured by educating the end user.
I know how to do a lot of things including securing a consumer grade wired/wireless router. I don't know how to make cupcakes though. I don't think my lack of knowledge about cupcakes makes me dumb, it just makes me ignorant about cupcakes.
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It is not possible to achieve 'equality' between things that are, fundamentally, not equal! | |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ | said by Dave547457 :
I don't think people who don't change the defaults are necessarily dumb.
They're not dumb. They're either lazy, impatient or simply don't know any better. | |
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DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Dumb people? said by Eat Me :said by Dave547457 :
I don't think people who don't change the defaults are necessarily dumb.
They're not dumb. They're either lazy, impatient or simply don't know any better. not knowing any better means you are dumb. If you knew better you wouldnt be so dumb. | |
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| | | Airwolf7
Premium
join:2004-12-12
Franklin, KY
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Dumb people? said by DJMASACRE :said by Eat Me :said by Dave547457 :
I don't think people who don't change the defaults are necessarily dumb.
They're not dumb. They're either lazy, impatient or simply don't know any better. Not knowing any better means you are dumb. If you knew better you wouldn't be so dumb. That's incorrect! Are you dumb or ignorant? One can be corrected and the other one can not.
Not knowing any better because you lack the intelligence to know any better means you are dumb.
Not knowing any better because you lack knowledge on the subject means you are ignorant. This is the one that can be corrected.
»www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dumb
Dumb = lacking intelligence : stupid
»www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ignorant
Ignorant = lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified
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It is not possible to achieve 'equality' between things that are, fundamentally, not equal! | |
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DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
1 edit | Re: Dumb people? said by Airwolf7 :That's incorrect! Are you dumb or ignorant? One can be corrected and the other one can not. Not knowing any better because you lack the intelligence to know any better means you are dumb. Not knowing any better because you lack knowledge on the subject means you are ignorant. This is the one that can be corrected.» www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dumbDumb = lacking intelligence : stupid» www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ignorantIgnorant = lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified so by those definitions. you can be intelligent and not know anything (lack knowledge)
you cant be one without the other.
everything can be corrected if you really try . come on stop being so ignorant =) | |
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Makaki09
 from:
Eat Me
| Not Always The End Users Fault Wireless security is extremely confusing for normal people who have real work to do. Many of the people on this website are hardcore computer-nerds who live for these types of insecurity revelations.
Manufacturers need to make it easier to enable security, as well as deciding what type of security to use.
WPA, WEP, etc, etc... all of those are incredibly confusing and the standard firmware for WRT54G gives no information on the pros & cons of the various password protections.
Each router should have a UNIQUE default user/password printed on the packaging, just as Windows CDs have a unique product key. Of course this would be more expensive for manufacturers, but many might agree it's worth the extra cost to live in a safer wireless world. | |
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| PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD | Re: Not Always The End Users Fault Don't forget that half of the time they cannot even use the higher forms of security because their hardware or OS does not support it. | |
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sivran
Long Live The Suite
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Not Always The End Users Fault Only those with some seriously old hardware (or a nintendo DS) would run into that, though. Consoles (I forget, does the Wii support WPA?) and portables aside the lowest common denominator these days is WPA/TKIP, which was the best my old G3 ibook supported.
Windows XP with SP3 supports WPA2/AES, and older Windows don't give a rat's ass and just let the third-party software handle it. (Thus my Win 2k picturebook's ability to do WPA2 as well )
A wireless set up wizard could be as simple as "Do you have a Nintendo DS and want it to be able to surf?" which would set WEP or WPA based on the answer. The next question would be an unskippable demand for a password, though for WEP the password would be used to generate a hex string to use for the key.
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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon profitable cause... | |
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TheRul
You couldn't think of something?
Premium
join:2007-09-18
Victorville, CA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| simply amazing It is simply amazing the aragance of this. How many of you do you own auto work? How many of you want to be able to have your car just start in the morning?
Most of these "dumb people" have not been educated in the world of security.
A lot of the elderly who have bought these "magic" boxes that allow them to sit in their chairs and email the grandkids. What do they know of security? What should you know about otheoperosis? Or how to skin a deer? or how your refridgerator actually works. Or god forbid, first aid!
So before berating people for not understanding what they should know, think about what you do not, before you call them names. One of them may someday have their hands in your guts, and you should prey they know the simple things that you do not.
end of rant
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Reality: I am bearly able to handle ality, why do I want it again?
DO NOT SIGN THIS DOCUMENT UNTIL YOU READ AND UNDERSTAND IT. IF YOU DO NOT READ AND UNDERSTAND ENGLISH, PLEASE SEE YOUR AGENT/BROKER FOR AN EXPLANATION OF THIS FORM. | |
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Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
| How to check? Ok, my password is fine and all the net side ports are shut down but I also work on a lot of other people's equipment. How do you check if the router is infected? Checking the computers is easy enough but I really have no clue on the routers themselves. | |
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shearer
Northern Lights
Premium
join:2002-06-18
Toronto, ON
clubs: | . since it takes aim at routers (with SSH or telnet open on the WAN end) I thought most routers have SSH/Telnet disabled on the WAN side by default? | |
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anon11
@teksavvy.com | Re: . Would the use of Mac Address filtering stop WAN telnet attempts? | |
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tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
·Comcast
| Re: . No. at best MAC filtering reminds/doesn't allow people to "accidentally" connect to the wrong (your) AP, MAC's are easily spoofed, by anyone wanting to get in.
security is a combonation of settings, each one making it more difficult/less worth spending time on, for most "hackers". | |
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ICE1
@sbcglobal.net
| Tomato GUI Open Source or not, when it comes down to it
there needs to be a easy to use GUI for users
such as I. I use Tomato and it's getting exciting lately
if you never heard of Tomato you won't be disappointed
The nice people from the Tomato project provided a
neat site that allow you to look around before upgrading
»lampiweb.com/tomato/status-index.htm
If you got any question check out
»Linksys
or
»www.linksysinfo.org/forums/forum···hp?f=160 | |
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TodayGone
@verizon.net
| complicated philosophy of life and mental states discussions How about we drop the complicated philosophy of life and mental states discussions and get back to the simple stuff like computer security? I'm getting dizzy with all the cross-pollination of ideas and will have to sit this one out.
Maybe I should go do something simple like set up another computer network? That calms me down.... Maybe, check out the neighbors' wireless security. Perhaps, some relaxing Sunday afternoon WEP cracking? | |
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BlameMarketing
@embarqhsd.net
|  yes people are dumb but: don't blame the victims
they want people to think it's easy simple plug-n-play don't worry be happy time for using computers.
they're the ones that sell it like that -- most people don't want to and don't have time to learn technical stuff re: security / optimization / etc -- it's actually all very complicated stuff for those who don't know, don't want to know, don't have the time, etc. They've been sold a false bill of goods.
But the pc manufacturers would never sell the frakkin things if people knew beforehand how much crapola they were getting themselves into re: malware, security, blah blah blah blah....
easy targets - because of FALSE ADVERTISING. | |
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New Botnet Targets Routers, Dumb People
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Re: Nothing is sacred...
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