 
Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC |  Is anyone surpised?
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| Re: Is anyone surpised? said by Matt  :Is anyone surprised that the Senate is still in the pockets of big business? Why would that change. The Dimbulbs are every bit as on the take as the Gee Oh Pee. The only difference between the two is that the Gee Oh Pee makes no attempt to disguise its contempt for anyone not making under $500k/yr. The Dimbulbs, OTOH, like to pretend that they represent the people.
On the NN provision in the stimulus pkg, I have every confidence that the clause will be removed behind closed doors without further discussion. I'd bet a month's pay on that. And if it somehow manages to stay, it will be so watered down it will be useless. Any takers of this bet?
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The Toll
Tracking Lord Stanley
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| said by Matt :Is anyone surprised that the Senate is still in the pockets of big business? Their mantra is more free money, less control, and more tax breaks ... all to corporations. That's worked wonderfully so far, hasn't it? It'd be nice if what you said was true. The USA has one of the world's highest corporate tax rates. This alone has contributed to many jobs being moved outside of the country. The companies that remain pass the costs of those taxes directly to the consumer in the form of higher prices.
Every tax hike on a business ends up screwing the people in one way or another, either through higher prices or lost jobs.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX | Re: Is anyone surpised? Maybe so, but American entrepreneurs also have a much better chance at success and financial freedom in the United States than any other country in the world. Kinda balances out don't you think? | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Is anyone surpised? said by SRFireside :Maybe so, but American entrepreneurs also have a much better chance at success and financial freedom in the United States than any other country in the world. Kinda balances out don't you think? If that's still true why do jobs continue to be offshored?
Much of the rest of the world has caught up to where we are technologically. As a result, we live in a reality in which it is trivially easy to ship any job overseas. Our tax policies should not help make this any easier.
If you want a quick recovery, set the corporate tax rate to 0 and radically lower personal income taxes.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
| Re: Is anyone surpised? Jobs are being offshored because yes, it is cheaper for the company to do so. Most, if not all, of the companies that are offshoring are corporations who tend to focus more on stockholder value than anything else. Of course they go to the cheap labor to reduce costs and get those fatter profits. That doesn't mean the companies can't be prosperous keeping their production in the states. Look at the ledgers of these companies and see what their earnings and profits were before going out of the country. They were doing just fine. | |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Labor, not taxes are by FAR business' largest expense and overseas they can get away with near zero regulation and virtual slave labor payrates. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by pnh102 :If you want a quick recovery, set the corporate tax rate to 0 and radically lower personal income taxes. And where do you get the money to run the government? I'm prety sure at the very least our soldiers would like to get paid. Oh and I like bridges not to fail while I'm on them.
no such thing as a free luch buddy. | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | Re: Is anyone surpised? You don't I know it's hard a hard subject to understand but just think about it a bit. Why do stores have sales? It's not so they lose money.
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| | | | RocketChild
join:2003-11-24
Round Rock, TX
1 edit | said by pnh102 If you want a quick recovery, set the corporate tax rate to 0 and radically lower personal income taxes.
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Sounds like you might be an advocate of the FairTax?
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax | |
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ahedge
Premium
join:2002-05-14
Shepherd, TX
 ·Millenicom
| said by pnh102 :said by Matt :Is anyone surprised that the Senate is still in the pockets of big business? Their mantra is more free money, less control, and more tax breaks ... all to corporations. That's worked wonderfully so far, hasn't it? It'd be nice if what you said was true. The USA has one of the world's highest corporate tax rates. I think it's not true if we compare to other industrialized nations. Do you have a reference to support that statement? | |
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ahedge
Premium
join:2002-05-14
Shepherd, TX
·Millenicom
| Re: Is anyone surpised? Well just comparing rates is inaccurate at best. This study tells a different story.
»oxrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/con···24/4/639
Corporate taxation in the US was around 10 percent of the total in 2005, and rather low as percentage of the GDP compared to other European nations.
(scroll down to Figure 6 Corporate taxation vs total taxation (2005) | |
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| | | | | joelliot
join:2002-01-28
West Warwick, RI | Re: Is anyone surpised? Countries like Norway can get 45% of tax revenue from corporations because of things like North Sea oil. This is pointed out in the very article you site. Remember that 70% of the US GDP is consumer spending & another 20% is government. | |
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knightmb
Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| said by pnh102 :It'd be nice if what you said was true. The USA has one of the world's highest corporate tax rates. This alone has contributed to many jobs being moved outside of the country. The companies that remain pass the costs of those taxes directly to the consumer in the form of higher prices. Every tax hike on a business ends up screwing the people in one way or another, either through higher prices or lost jobs. The highest corporate tax and greatest amount of loopholes for the smart business. The two kind of balance out, but the overall impression is still bad.
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Find one reported instance of jobs being moved out of the country because of the corporate tax rate and not because of labor rates.
Unlike other countries in the world, the US does not charge a corporate income tax on foreign revenue. For example, any company with a presence in Germany is assessed a 20% tax by Germany on all revenue in the United States. Also, most OECD countries charge corporate income tax as well as personal tax on income passed through to shareholders. Not the United States; in the US a company can become a pass through entity. Any income passed to shareholders is no longer taxed at the corporate rate and only taxed as shareholder personal income. The result is few companies pay the high statutory rate and the majority pay the 15% pass through entity rate.
So, go ahead and lower the statutory rate. It won't make any difference. The Senate certainly does not want to lower it, since there would be little benefit to corporations and a big detriment to shareholders.
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ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
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Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Is anyone surpised? said by marigolds :Find one reported instance of jobs being moved out of the country because of the corporate tax rate and not because of labor rates. HP moved jobs from the USA to Ireland because of lower corporate taxes there. This was done under Carly Fiorina's tenure. I am sure that isn't the only example that exists.
And while what you say about tax policy might be true, the fact remains that the high US corporate tax, as well as any tax paid by the shareholders on profit, is still collected directly from the customers of these companies. That's just simple business, all overhead costs are passed directly to the consumer.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| Re: Is anyone surpised? said by pnh102 :...the fact remains that the high US corporate tax, as well as any tax paid by the shareholders on profit, is still collected directly from the customers of these companies. That's just simple business, all overhead costs are passed directly to the consumer. That is a fact that you will have a hard time convincing people is true. Everyone says screw business, but no one seems to consider where that money that business pays in taxes comes from. Now lets talk about indirect taxes and how congress can effectively raise the personal income tax rate without people knowing it...
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| said by pnh102 :HP moved jobs from the USA to Ireland because of lower corporate taxes there. This was done under Carly Fiorina's tenure. I am sure that isn't the only example that exists. HP is still based in the United States. That move would cause no change in corporate income taxes.
As well, I lived in Corvallis during that move and knew many of the U.S. workers who were moved temporarily to Ireland. While Ireland was chosen because of its tax structure, the move of facilities to Ireland was done for global security reasons; dispersing facilities so that any one disaster would not cripple the company.
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me1212
join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO | I don't get it. The title say net neutrality is in, but the last line of the article say it might not be.. Well anyway it looks like, at this point anyway, the net neutrality is in, GOOD! | |
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screavic
Premium
join:2006-08-11
Paron, AR | I hope this works I hope this works, I would like to have something that is mostly on. I miss having broadband, the sacrifice I had to make in order to help save money from living in the city. | |
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grumpy3b
join:2001-12-11
Lompoc, CA | it they want public funding then... the damn language needs to STAY as well as the requirements to wire everyone everywhere in the US. | |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ | Write your reps!!! Write them and tell them that you want net neutrality to stay.
Remember, you voted to elect these people, and without you they wouldn't be elected. | |
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screavic
Premium
join:2006-08-11
Paron, AR | Re: Write your reps!!! I didn't vote for the lobbyist haha | |
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rdmiller
join:2005-09-23
Richmond, VA | I'm a taxpayer. I want Net Neutrality. I want 100Mbps/20Mbps. I want it to be free. Better still, I want the telco to pay me for accepting their service. There! | |
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| jl747
join:2005-03-24
Mount Prospect, IL | Re: I'm a taxpayer. This is not a stimulus bill. It is a spending bill.
Full of pork. | |
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ahedge
Premium
join:2002-05-14
Shepherd, TX
·Millenicom
| Re: I'm a taxpayer. said by jl747 :This is not a stimulus bill. It is a spending bill. Full of pork. Such as? Can you point at the pork in that bill? | |
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| | | Scotty6595
join:2005-04-03
Frisco, TX
| Re: I'm a taxpayer. said by ahedge :said by jl747 :This is not a stimulus bill. It is a spending bill. Full of pork. Such as? Can you point at the pork in that bill? Are you serious? Have you been living under a rock the last 3 days? Point at the pork in that bill?
Just a few for giggles...
Page 32: $1.5 billion (with a “B”) for a “carbon-capturing contest”
P. 45: “$25,000,000 is for recreation maintenance, especially for rehabilitation of off-road vehicle routes, and $20,000,000 is for trail maintenance and restoration.” ATV owners, rejoice.
$54 billion will go to federal programs that the Office of Management and Budget or the Government Accountability Office have already criticized as “ineffective” or unable to pass basic financial audits.
Page 41: The Coast Guard wants more than $572 million for “Acquisition, Construction, & Improvements” They claim these funds will create 1,235 new jobs. Crunch the numbers and this brings the cost of “creating” each job to a staggering $460,000+
Take your partisan blinders off for one second and see for yourself... | |
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ahedge
Premium
join:2002-05-14
Shepherd, TX | Re: I'm a taxpayer. Thank you, I'll check those. I hate pork too, but would a few items make a 640+ page bill full of pork? And you speak of partisan blinders? | |
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| | | | | Scotty6595
join:2005-04-03
Frisco, TX
| Re: I'm a taxpayer. Lol, those were but just a few and you would be doing yourself a favor by not only checking "those" few that I included but the multitude that I did not! (Yes, there are a multitude of earmarks that do NOTHING to stimulate the economy that add up to billions and billions!)
Yes, I do speak of partisan blinders as is evident in your reply... 
Get over your party politics and have our govt. do what is right for our nation! | |
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ahedge
Premium
join:2002-05-14
Shepherd, TX
·Millenicom
1 edit | Re: I'm a taxpayer. said by Scotty6595 :Lol, those were but just a few and you would be doing yourself a favor by not only checking "those" few that I included but the multitude that I did not! (Yes, there are a multitude of earmarks that do NOTHING to stimulate the economy that add up to billions and billions!) Yes, I do speak of partisan blinders as is evident in your reply... Get over your party politics and have our govt. do what is right for our nation! Well said, but WHAT is right for our nation? So far what you pointed at doesn't strike me as pork. Usually I have a gag reflex when looking at pork, but didn't happen now.
Anyway, I would have to understand better what the implications are for those items. How come you are so sure it is pork?
Anyway, we are way OT. Pork aside, giving more broadband to rural areas seems a worthwhile effort to me. | |
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| | | | | shadow700
join:2004-08-05
Collegeville, PA
| said by ahedge :Thank you, I'll check those. I hate pork too, but would a few items make a 640+ page bill full of pork? And you speak of partisan blinders? $1B to Amtrak
$2B in "child care subsidies"
$50M to the National Endowment of the Arts
$650M for DTV coupons
$7B to "modernize" federal buildings
$66B to Education
....absolutely NONE of which can be considered "stimulus". Note that I am taking issue with these programs other than to say that they don't belong in a "stimulus" bill. | |
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ahedge
Premium
join:2002-05-14
Shepherd, TX
·Millenicom
| Re: I'm a taxpayer. said by shadow700 :said by ahedge :Thank you, I'll check those. I hate pork too, but would a few items make a 640+ page bill full of pork? And you speak of partisan blinders? $1B to Amtrak $2B in "child care subsidies" $50M to the National Endowment of the Arts $650M for DTV coupons $7B to "modernize" federal buildings $66B to Education ....absolutely NONE of which can be considered "stimulus". Note that I am taking issue with these programs other than to say that they don't belong in a "stimulus" bill. And I agree with you on that, having a separate bill for stimulus action items would have made a clearer cut. Anyway, what's not stimulus in that bill is not necessarily pork (I am not saying there isn't any).
I am still giving the Dems and Obama the benefit of the doubt. They are rushing to get something running ASAP. Many people who lost their jobs are hurting out there and some of the measures I saw will soothe that pain. The sooner the better, seems to be their mantra. | |
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join:2004-08-05
Collegeville, PA
| Re: I'm a taxpayer. said by ahedge :They are rushing to get something running ASAP. Many people who lost their jobs are hurting out there and some of the measures I saw will soothe that pain. The sooner the better, seems to be their mantra. If you follow their plan, a total of 7% of the "stimulus" bill would be injected into the economy this year. The other 93% will NOT help the people you are concerned about. | |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | ALL gov't spending is pork...ALL of it. Whether you think it is solely depends on what constituency group you're in. | |
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ahedge
Premium
join:2002-05-14
Shepherd, TX
·Millenicom
| Re: I'm a taxpayer. said by Dogfather :ALL gov't spending is pork...ALL of it. Whether you think it is solely depends on what constituency group you're in. Well, you have a point there but the size of the constituency and the scope of the legislation can make a difference. | |
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rcdailey
Dragoonfly
Premium
join:2005-03-29
Rialto, CA | Re: I'm a taxpayer. I want the government to pay for all this so that it is free to me. I can't afford it otherwise. | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| purely across party lines? Is that a typo? don't you mean purely along party lines? Cause there are 178 republicans in the house and 177 of them voted against it. I don't mean to break out the calculus but I mean 1/178 is pretty damn close to zero so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that the republicans really didn't vote for it.
I know there is this push and all to make it sound like the world is united as one under the reign of his most gracious lord Obama but, across party lines is stretching it a tad much dontcha think?
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SuperWISP
join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY
| Don't fear the ISP lobbyists; fear the Google lobbyists The ISPs' lobbyists aren't the ones to worry about. Beware the lobbyists from Google: Free Press, New America Foundation, Public Knowledge, Media Access Project. These lobbying groups are hard at work in DC trying to regulate the Internet under the guise of "network neutrality." But what they are asking for isn't "neutral" at all -- the policies all favor Google's corporate agenda. And they'd raise prices and hurt quality of service for all users. | |
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| ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| said by SuperWISP :The ISPs' lobbyists aren't the ones to worry about. Beware the lobbyists from Google: Free Press, New America Foundation, Public Knowledge, Media Access Project. These lobbying groups are hard at work in DC trying to regulate the Internet under the guise of "network neutrality." But what they are asking for isn't "neutral" at all -- the policies all favor Google's corporate agenda. And they'd raise prices and hurt quality of service for all users. Self-interested much? You should recuse and excuse yourself. I'm sure industry alliance with Phorm and its ilk, traffic prioritization, content control and and BIG Telco's bill by the byte plan will be oh-so-good for the common folk... | |
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Bronnster
join:2007-12-05
Hazelton, ID
·Qwest.net
| I am wanting to believe Google is for Net Neutrality:
»hothardware.com/News/Google-Laun···etector/
»digg.com/tech_news/Google_Launch···C=PRCT2#
FTA:
Never one to sit idly by on the sidelines and let things play out on their own, Google has always tried to play an active role in shaping how Internet technology is used and regulated. Net neutrality is one of the concerns that Google has been very vocal about, and now Google is putting tools into the hands of researchers and everyday users to help us determine if ISPs are "blocking or throttling particular applications," such as using traffic shaping and network prioritization practices--just like the ones Cox Communications announced it will be experimenting with starting next month in Kansas and Arkansas. | |
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Network Neutrality Remains In Stimulus Bills
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