NebuAD Responds To ISP BacklashAfter a number of potential clients suddenly back away.... 03:59PM Tuesday Jul 01 2008 by Karl Bodetags: business · privacyBehavioral advertising firm NebuAD has watched several ISP relationships ( Charter, CenturyTel and Embarq) evaporate in a flash over the past few weeks after lawmakers and consumer advocates began to wonder whether NebuAD's broadband user browsing-tracking business model violates consumer privacy and wiretap laws. Despite the fairly damning recent report that suggests NebuAD uses a number of controversial techniques (browser hijacks, cross-site scripting (XSS) attacks, man in the middle attacks), CEO Bob Dykes tells the Washington Post that the problem isn't NebuAD, it's an "education" issue: "It's clear we need further education in Washington and elsewhere to address the concerns of privacy advocates," Dykes said. The message that the technology protects privacy "hasn't been understood by everyone." Dykes also commented in a statement that NebuAD supports the decisions of the suddenly reticent ISPs: "We support CenturyTel's decision to delay its implementation plans so that Congress can spend additional time addressing the privacy issues and policies associated with online behavioral advertising," Dykes said. "NebuAd and its ISP partners are actively working together to refine a rollout plan tailored for each ISP that continues to set the standard for privacy protection in advertising online to consumers. NebuAd looks forward to a continued open dialogue with legislators, regulators, and the advocacy community." One ISP employee tells me that NebuAD is informing ISP partners that they're working on a new, IP-based opt-out system. I imagine that once NebuAD and ISP lawyers believe they have a system in place that allows them to effectively wiggle around existing laws, (and/or the appropriate individuals are lobbied effectively) the majority of these ISPs will resume suspended trials regardless of the concerns of privacy advocates or consumers. So while the lip service to "the advocacy community" is a nice touch -- it's ultimately empty. Lawmakers don't have the guts to stand up to the $11 billion online advertising industry and mandate that these services are opt-in, and smart lobbyists and lawyers will be able to skirt existing privacy laws with a few tweaks and a good "education" campaign.
Related:- Comcast Tries Addressable Advertising Pilot in Baltimore
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DataDoc
Nilsson Schmilsson
Premium
join:2000-05-14
Greenville, NC | Opt-out? Why isn't this an Opt-in? Because no one would. | |
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Skeedatl
Ah, push it - push it real good
Premium
join:2007-12-26
The Cloud | Re: Opt-out? Why isn't this an Opt-in? I would...
...for a cut of the revenues. | |
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DataDoc
Nilsson Schmilsson
Premium
join:2000-05-14
Greenville, NC | Re: Opt-out? Why isn't this an Opt-in? Never happen, you're only the producer of the data and don't get a cut. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Opt-out? Why isn't this an Opt-in? Your cut would be one of the following:
1. We'd bump you up to a higher tier
or
2. We'd reduce the monthly cost by $1-2/month.
--
Canada = Hollywood North | |
| | | | | jarthur31
join:2006-04-14
Carlsbad, NM | Re: Opt-out? Why isn't this an Opt-in? I wouldn't mind unless they lower my HSI bill or at least double my upload speed; otherwise it won't be worth it to me. | |
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kfsutops
Premium
join:2002-08-19
Brandon, FL
clubs:  | IP-based opt-out system How does this help when IP addresses change all the time??? | |
| | CybermatriX
join:2008-06-13 | Re: IP-based opt-out system IP-based opt-out would only work if the person has a static IP address. It should be ISP account based that way every computer that connects through ones network wouldn't get the ad's and such. | |
| | Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
 ·Comcast
|  The solution would require very little effort on the part of the ISP. The MAC Address of the customers modem whether Cable or DSL can be associated with an OPT-IN or OPT-OUT flag. The MAC Address will not change. All the ISP would have to do is check the status of the OPT-OUT Flag assigned the Modem's MAC Address and use that information to update the OPT-OUT Flag assigned to the IP Address when the IP Address changed. Problem solved. Remember this solution is patent pending. | |
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R0CKY
TSI Rocky
Premium,VIP
join:2005-05-19
Chatham, ON | Re: Translation? LOL... should be interesting to see the next spin on this one!
--
TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc. | |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by article author and Dykes :
The message that the technology protects privacy "hasn't been understood by everyone."
They didn't understand that snarfing up the entire data stream of all the ISP's internet users and data-mining it for profit "protects privacy"??? Egads! Next they'll be failing to understand that the sky is green, water is dry and scummy spyware vendors are fluffy kittens! | |
| 
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| Stop Advertising at me! "It's clear we need further education in Washington and elsewhere to address the concerns of privacy advocates," Dykes said. The message that the technology protects privacy "hasn't been understood by everyone."
Educate = bribe, coerce, hit over head with frozen muckluck, browbeat, etc etc until they get their own way!
Why don't they get it ... people just don't want to be bombarded with ads in every aspect of their lives. TV, radio, billboards, junk paper mail, telemarketing, spam, and now targeted ads in websites! Yes, privacy is an issue, but so is the constant bombardment by advertising. | |
| | 
TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Stop Advertising at me! said by sbrook  :Why don't they get it ... people just don't want to be bombarded with ads in every aspect of their lives. TV, radio, billboards, junk paper mail, telemarketing, spam, and now targeted ads in websites! Yes, privacy is an issue, but so is the constant bombardment by advertising. The price you pay for much of the internet(access & content) is what it is because of advertising. Without advertising the price would be MUCH, MUCH higher. In fact most off the content available wouldn't be there at all without it. So, guess what, advertising isn't going away no matter how much you dislike it. Of course, you can use ad block software, but if a majority of users follow suit, then the advertisers will find another way to get out their message. Like embedding the ads IN THE CONTENT and not just framed around it.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
| | | 
digitalfreak
Frodo failed. Bush has the ring
join:2005-12-09
49533
| Re: Stop Advertising at me! Except for the fact that we're not talking about getting ads served to you by the sites you visit. In this case it's just another way for the telcos and cablecos to pad their bottom line. I have no problem with ads from the websites themselves. It's the only way they make their money. | |
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Favre04
Premium
join:2002-08-03
USA
| Re: Stop Advertising at me! said by digitalfreak :Except for the fact that we're not talking about getting ads served to you by the sites you visit. In this case it's just another way for the telcos and cablecos to pad their bottom line. I have no problem with ads from the websites themselves. It's the only way they make their money. Business's are in business to make money. So it's ok for a web site to serve ads but not ISP's? You either like ads or you don't in my book. I could care less where they come from personally. | |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| Re: Stop Advertising at me! If the ISP wants to serve ads from the ISP's site, that's up to them.
The idea that content providers will provide ad space that they don't know what will actually appear in that space, to be determined by NebuAd and injected at the time of delivery is crappy.
Now granted similar does happen on TV, but at least it's only local ad substitution and the network advertiser is aware his ad will not appear in all markets. But at least they aren't injecting ads based on the programs you watch in any identifiable way (although I expect that will come in due course).
Where will the advertising greed stop? | |
| | | | | NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
 ·Pacific Bell - SBC
edit:
July 2nd, @12:35AM
| said by Favre04 :Business's are in business to make money. So it's ok for a web site to serve ads but not ISP's? You either like ads or you don't in my book. I could care less where they come from personally. If it were only ads...but we are talking about a system of data mining to "target" ads to your specific surfing habits.
TV ads are blanket ads for an entire market. If the ISPs only injected ads to your browser, that would be the same thing. But the NebuAds you get will be different from the ones I get, and all because the NebuAd hardware tracks where, on the Internet, we are going.
Or are you saying you wouldn't mind having a Marketoon dogging your every footstep from the time you step out of your house into public space until you arrive at a comparably private destination? And don't you think that they'd like to watch what you do in your bedroom and bathroom, if that would help them figure out a way to target more ads at you?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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digitalfreak
Frodo failed. Bush has the ring
join:2005-12-09
49533
| said by Favre04 :said by digitalfreak :Except for the fact that we're not talking about getting ads served to you by the sites you visit. In this case it's just another way for the telcos and cablecos to pad their bottom line. I have no problem with ads from the websites themselves. It's the only way they make their money. Business's are in business to make money. So it's ok for a web site to serve ads but not ISP's? You either like ads or you don't in my book. I could care less where they come from personally. If you ran a website that was supported by them, you sure as sh!t would! If I go to www.comcast.com and see ads there, that's fine. However, they have NO right to modify the content of other websites, which is basically what they would be doing. | |
| | | | 
uncleFester
@rr.com
| said by digitalfreak :I have no problem with ads from the websites themselves. It's the only way they make their money. when the providers are headed toward bandwidth caps, metered service and charging you for data overages.. i have one hell of a problem with ads at any point in the tier, including the websites themselves. how much whittling of your service for your dollar are you willing to endure?
-r  | |
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digitalfreak
Frodo failed. Bush has the ring
join:2005-12-09
49533
| Re: Stop Advertising at me! said by uncleFester :said by digitalfreak :I have no problem with ads from the websites themselves. It's the only way they make their money. when the providers are headed toward bandwidth caps, metered service and charging you for data overages.. i have one hell of a problem with ads at any point in the tier, including the websites themselves. how much whittling of your service for your dollar are you willing to endure? -r I was speaking of the ads that support the website they're shown on. Nothing to do with the ISP. | |
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onyanmous
@comcast.net
| said by TK Junk Mail :The price you pay for much of the internet(access & content) is what it is because of advertising. Without advertising the price would be MUCH, MUCH higher. True but the cost of goods at the store would be MUCH MUCH cheaper and you only need to follow the money to prove it.
Ask yourself, where do the advertisers get their money?
From the product manufacturers, of course.
And where do the product manufacturers get their money?
From the cash registers at Walmart.
And can you guess where the Walmart cash registers get their money?
So you see, the advertisers are using our money to annoy us.
FWIW, I absolutely abhor phucking advertising. I hate junk mail, spam, telemarketers, popups and the gobdamn ads Comcast shoves in my face on the cable box program guide. | |
| | | clickie
join:2005-05-22
Monroe, MI
| You continue to miss the point.
The problem isn't advertising, the problem is advertising served from sniffing the data to and from my computer. "Behavioral advertising" is a buzzword for nothing more than "we spy on you and serve ads based upon what you're doing".
It's not innocuous. These people are tampering with private communications between me and a remote host. They are injecting data that doesn't belong there, isn't authorized by either party and reduces my security to the lowest level as Nebuad.
If this were *only* about advertising, I'd be a happy camper. But it's not, it has little to do with advertising and everything to do with third-parties to which I have no business relationship watching what I do online. | |
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Jamalystic
@etransnational.com
moderated:
July 1st, @06:14PM
| The Consumer should Have More Say!! We just can't trust the ISPs on this issue and i believe the only ideal solution is to have a new business model wherein the consumer owns the last mile and is free to connect to any service provider he or she wishes at a neighbourhood, carrier-neutral interconnect facility. Only then can we have geneuine internet transparency as this piece suggested: Improving Internet Transparency: »www.internetevolution.com/author···=154745& | |
| scooper
join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC
edit:
July 1st, @05:09PM
| ABP All hail Ad Block Plus and couple hundred K byte long hosts files so we can minimize "ads" intruding on our internet experiance... | |
| | | | NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: ABP A hosts file will not keep NebuAd from tracking where, on the Internet, you are going.
And keep in mind, if you visit porn sites, that data will be available to whomever has the money to pay for it; possibly a suspicious spouse's P.I.?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
| 
DracoFelis
Premium
join:2003-06-15
| This is about PRIVACY This is lovely "SPIN", but IMHO it really is BS in the end.
The bottom line is that this technology (by its vary nature of being a gateway for the ISPs trucks) depends upon INVADING PRIVACY to work, and therefore (due to that invasion of privacy) deserves to be ILLEGAL (which in fact it might very well be, given existing wiretap laws, etc). Even if you "opt out", your privacy is apparently still invaded (you just don't get the "targeted ads", but it still appears as if you are watched).
The thing is, if this was just about the "targeted ads" it would still be slimy, but much less of a problem. As other have pointed out, "ad blocking software" can easily eat any undesired "targeted ads". But (and this is key), it's NOT all about the ads (that's just the semi-legit place companies like this make their money).
The true problem is the spying that is done (supposedly just to allow them to "target" the ads), and that means a massive invasion of privacy! And that invasion of privacy should be much more of a concern to people, than the minor annoyance of "targeted ads"...
Of course, as others have pointed out, a CEO with a lot of money might be able to successfully "lobby congress" to get the laws changed to what they desire, no matter how in the wrong their position is. And so there is still a real chance that this company could still get its wish. Of course, if things ran the way civics class says they should, IMHO the proper response for blatant abuse of privacy and existing laws should be criminal charges against company officials (assuming that they really have broken existing privacy/wiretap/etc laws as part of their "business plan"). But we all know that when money and politics are involved, what "should happen" and what "does happen" are not always the same thing. | |
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fishmaster
Premium
join:2004-10-08
Rockford, IL | Educated My backside!! What they really mean is brainwashed... or as one way I like to phrase it... Marketing Media Propagated.
--
Browse A lot - Sign In Little - Post Even Less | |
| 
Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Albany, NY
| NebuAD protects privacy?!! "It's clear we need further education in Washington and elsewhere to address the concerns of privacy advocates," Dykes said. The message that the technology protects privacy "hasn't been understood by everyone."
They use browser hijacks, cross-site scripting (XSS) attacks, and man in the middle attacks to listen in on your web browsing and serve up ads. But all that *PROTECTS* your privacy! What's NebuAD's CEO smoking? Can he pass some of that over here?
--
-Jason Levine
Support a children's charity. Buy a calendar. Shooting For A Cause
Jason's Toolbox | PCQandA.com | |
| | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: NebuAD protects privacy?!! Didn't Karl do a nice job working the word "attack" into the story twice? That's sure to get people fired up, even if it's not accurate. | |
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digitalfreak
Frodo failed. Bush has the ring
join:2005-12-09
49533
| Re: NebuAD protects privacy?!! said by jester121 :Didn't Karl do a nice job working the word "attack" into the story twice? That's sure to get people fired up, even if it's not accurate. If you don't like what he writes or the way he writes it, you're more than welcome to go somewhere else. | |
| | | | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
 ·ViaTalk
| Re: NebuAD protects privacy?!! said by digitalfreak :If you don't like what he writes or the way he writes it, you're more than welcome to go somewhere else. Just you are with my posts. I'm also more than welcome to stay here and comment on postings. Just like you.
That's what makes it a "forum". | |
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man_crush
@charter.com
| said by digitalfreak :If you don't like what he writes or the way he writes it, you're more than welcome to go somewhere else. Says the member with Karl's old avatar .. cree peee | |
| 
jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
edit:
July 1st, @11:36PM
| Ah yes, the need to educate the Washington folks "It's clear we need further education in Washington and elsewhere to address the concerns of privacy advocates," Dykes said. The message that the technology protects privacy "hasn't been understood by everyone."
I'm pretty sure there will be plenty of receptive legislators for the education NebuAD can provide. We just have to find out what NebuAD's E.D.U.C.A.T.I.O.N. acronym stands for.
Any takers?
--
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA * | |
| | Uraki
Uraki
Premium
join:2003-06-22
Belle Plaine, KS | Re: Ah yes, the need to educate the Washington folks Everyone's
Data
Under
Constant
Alteration
To
Insure
Our
Numbers | |
| clickie
join:2005-05-22
Monroe, MI
| Good Luck in Washington Mr. Sleezebag It should serve as a clue to your fate in Washington when the biggest whores in telecommunications, cable MSOs, ditched your little program. Quite honestly, there is nothing you can do Mr. Dykes that will make this scheme of yours completely legal. Your tap dancing around the gray lines will still be met with howls of protest from customers who simply will not stand for this situation.
I'm pretty certain that any attempt to make lawmakers see it Nebuad's way will be met with howls of protests from content providers who simply don't want Nebuad along for the ride. Nebuad shouldn't be injecting content into their communications, and once fully airborne, Nebuad will come crashing down under the weight of civil lawsuits from angry web site owners.
Furthermore, let's be real here; this scheme of Mr. Dykes dilutes everyone's security to the lowest level of Nebuad. If these jokers ever suffer from a compromise of their network, every ISP customer is at risk | |
| DJ_Kismuth
join:2001-11-25
Chicago, IL
| from WOW 7-1-2008..... Thank you for your e-mail. I appreciate that you took the time to express your displeasure with NebuAd. We believe that targeted advertising can provide value in that customers don’t see more ads than they normally would, but that they would see ads that are more relevant to their interests. We are confident we are not violating any current rules, laws or regulations with this service and NebuAd has expended considerable resources to ensure that they are in compliance with the law. The current cookie opt-out is a standard practice for the online advertising industry. That being said, I know that NebuAd is researching other alternate opt-outs that would be a better solution for customers.
I am sorry that we disappointed you and hope that we’ll have an opportunity to win back your business some day.
Respectfully,
Cathy Kuo
Chief Marketing Officer
WOW! Internet, Cable and Phone | |
| |
digitalfreak
Frodo failed. Bush has the ring
join:2005-12-09
49533
| Re: from WOW 7-1-2008..... said by DJ_Kismuth :We believe that targeted advertising can provide value in that customers don’t see more ads than they normally would, but that they would see ads that are more relevant to their interests. In other words, they're injecting their own ads and depriving the owners of the site of their revenue.
I just can't see any way that this can be legally justified. It's not any different than if I covered up an ad on a highway billboard sign with my own. | |
|
Rugahc
@rr.com
| What's the Big Hoopla? I dont get what people are so concerned about here. The things you do have been anonymously tracked for years (ComScore for example).
Remember when Google refused to release details as to how they operate? That's more of a concern to me.
DPI (Deep Packet Inspection) has been around a while. It's providing more and more input to carriers. MSOs use your TV viewing data for demographic gathering and advertising (read: TARGETTED advertising.) | |
| geowil
join:2008-04-20
Laveen, AZ
·Qwest.net
·Cox HSI
| hmm I think "Dyke"s need to sthu and get out of my country and take his noob-ad crap with him.. i hear China is interested in making a deal with him (:sarcasim:; for those of you too slow to catch that).
no on second thought, we should all pitch in for a "We're sorry for your loss" card then write in it, "no... not really, burn in hell. From your friendly pissed off consumers."
and yup, that translation is pretty accurate.
"Education" seems to = money laundering nowadays, least where congress is concerned.
as far as im concerned noob-ad should be put under the same laws that try to control spyware, this is all noob-ad is, like those nasty rouge anti-fakeware progs.
they promise targeted ads based on browsing. ok, lets say we have a guy that goes to porn sites all day long. so he gets teh pron ads. say his little brother or daughter or some young person uses his computer, now they see these pron ads and are either scared for life or have some other emotional trauma.
sounds like prime lawsuit material to me, and if these companies are stupid enough to eventually start using it, i hope that is just what happens. Takes a few lawsuits to make companies see their mistakes. though, it wont happen due to how much they win, but their reputation will be tarnished.
then again, since most broadband companies have monopolies in almost every area (comparing like att to comcast doesnt really count, att is and always will be a telco, while comcrap is a cable provider, might offer the same services, but started elsewhere, so i dont consider them the same thing.) and abuse those monopolies to rape their customers, it might not do anything at all.
could have sworn there was a monopoly section somewhere in the law, oh wait there is, Microsoft is getting their asses handed to them for sh*t that's almost exactly (and some that isnt) like this.
lmfao, man we live in such a f**ked up country (for those BBR's that live in the us). 
--
Speedtest.net:
27759KB/s Down
538kb/s Up | |
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