  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Meh... The New York Times? Sorry I gotta presume that whatever they report is completely false until proven otherwise.
I'll stick with Silicon Valley's opinion on this one, simply because what they are doing, for the most part, works.
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. | |
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 | Reviews:
 ·Charter
| Re: Meh... said by pnh102:The New York Times? Sorry I gotta presume that whatever they report is completely false until proven otherwise.
I'll stick with Silicon Valley's opinion on this one, simply because what they are doing, for the most part, works.
Well, what this probably came out of is the fact that an MS data center was under their quarterly usage contract and was going to get billed anyways, and decided to use what they paid for. I think it would help if these large use contracts would get rid of the minimum usage that the buyer is getting billed for(so they get billed for actual usage), but the power companies want to know how much energy they will need, so I cannot blame them either. It will take some time and negotiation, but someone will come up with something that works. Also, backup generators are only used when the main power source is more expensive than running the genset, when the main power goes out or is unstable, or if the main power is not enough and they need more. | |
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| |  IllIlIlllIllEliteDataPremium
join:2003-07-06
Hampton Bays, NY
kudos:7 | Re: Meh... said by Chubbysumo:said by pnh102:The New York Times? Sorry I gotta presume that whatever they report is completely false until proven otherwise.
I'll stick with Silicon Valley's opinion on this one, simply because what they are doing, for the most part, works.
Well, what this probably came out of is the fact that an MS data center was under their quarterly usage contract and was going to get billed anyways, and decided to use what they paid for. I think it would help if these large use contracts would get rid of the minimum usage that the buyer is getting billed for(so they get billed for actual usage), but the power companies want to know how much energy they will need, so I cannot blame them either. It will take some time and negotiation, but someone will come up with something that works. Also, backup generators are only used when the main power source is more expensive than running the genset, when the main power goes out or is unstable, or if the main power is not enough and they need more. when we had the Northeast Blackout of 2003, you could smell the diesel in the air... 
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| | | Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
 ·Verizon FiOS
 ·voip.ms
| Re: Meh... The times is in the liberal pockets.
NYT - They want us to ship our datacenters to China too?
Diesel - OK every rig in this country uses it.
NYT - Shall we stop intercommerce traffic and go back to roller carts
Lead acid batteries - That one is hilarious. Every one of the hundred million or so cars on the road have them.
NYT - Shall we take them out, pull out AC/radios/lights, and bring back the Ford crank on a Model T
They use power, but a virtual server can run 100 machines on it, whereas 10 years ago that was one.
NYT - Shall we go back to paper news and not have any computers.
I think the NYT is nostalgic of the Darrrow days and had nothing else better to do. I read the "investigation" and it is littered with incongruous numbers and what is the point of the article?
1. Datacenters are in secret locations. Ok lets let the terrorists know where they are | |
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| | | | zed260Premium
join:2011-11-11
Cleveland, TN | Re: Meh... meh outsourcing datacenters to china china wouldnt allow it theyed shut it down they dont want anything to encourage free speech | |
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·RoadRunner Cable
| They're not all that secret. I've been in many data centers. Some are just not that visible. Others are 'hardened' to take tornado/hurricane weather and some (for public sector) are like a military compound.
Servers don't take nearly the power for what they deliver compared to what they did 10 years ago, and even more so compared to the 80's - don't even get me started with the old mainframe style.
This is more of a 'transfer' of power use from slash/burn of forests for paper and driving every where to deliver catalogs/messages, creating catalogs, etc. to having it available online 'globally'. | |
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·Charter
| And be glad places had them, just like im sure NYT has a few in their basement. Hypocrites at the best right here. | |
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| | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR | said by Chubbysumo: Also, backup generators are only used when the main power source is more expensive than running the genset, when the main power goes out or is unstable, or if the main power is not enough and they need more. They are run a a regular schedule for testing and to maintain their hot-swap status (i.e., "keep the juices flowing"). It's not just data centers; Telco Central Offices do the same thing, complete with the big batteries banks. They don't use nearly the power that data centers do, though.
Google and Facebook didn't put their data centers in North Central Oregon, in the middle of nowhere, because they liked the barren landscape and harsh north desert weather. It's because of the close proximity to Bonneville Dam, one of the biggest and cheapest electricity sources in the country (that, the and high-speed fiber trunks the Sate of Oregon encouraged to be built there in the 1990's). Based on the decisions the site owners' make in locating them, it seems obvious that the NYT is mostly right in identifying power concerns as an issue.
The most hilarious thing was an accompanying blog from a lobbyist for the paper industry, arguing that this was a good reason for people to send letters instead of email! | |
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| | |  sbrookPremium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:4
·TekSavvy Cable
| Re: Meh... That location is preferential for *reliability of supply* not *abundance of supply*.
A data centre's power consumption is but a mere blip on the output of the dam's hydroelectric output. It's major industry that are the power hogs ... You wanna see the power consumption as a steel slab goes through a rolling mill! | |
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| | | | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR | Re: Meh... More "cost" than "abundance". Reliability isn't too big a deal, given the ease at which backup generators can provide short-term power.
The biggest single-point users are (or rather, were) aluminum smelters. AL ore is cheap; the cost of the end product is largely influenced by the cost of electricity. They were good customers to soak up what would otherwise have been surplus hydropower, and they could be throttled back during peak load times as an easy way to shed load off the grid. Although most of the aluminum producers along the Columbia River have shut down and chased cheaper power in other parts of the world that have installed huge hydropower projects in recent years; such as S. America and China. | |
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| | | | | KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: Meh... Google built one of their biggest datacenters on the site of an old smelter for that reason. It already had a primary high Mw feeder directly from the power plant nearby. And being right on the river they likely cool the condensers of their their AC systems with the river instead of RTUs using only air.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Actually a bigger question is this, Why not make the servers which are idle actually do something else until called on?
I know for example at home people use those folding projects to make their CPUs do something if they run their PC constantly. Just have a process that shuts the folding down when the server is called on to serve something.
As for the 2003 blackout I am surprised any datacenter ran on diesel for longer than needed to simply turn the place off in proper order. not exactly like anybody was using the internet in said region because their lights where out.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | bt
join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·Start Communicat..
| Re: Meh... said by Kearnstd:As for the 2003 blackout I am surprised any datacenter ran on diesel for longer than needed to simply turn the place off in proper order. not exactly like anybody was using the internet in said region because their lights where out.
Not all of the hosted sites (AKA: paying customers) served only the regions where the power was out. | |
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| |  espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
·Vitelity VOIP
| said by Kearnstd:Actually a bigger question is this, Why not make the servers which are idle actually do something else until called on? The clock-step and power saving features of modern CPUs makes them vastly more power efficient.
Just look at the leap second Linux bug a few weeks back: major hosting providers noticed a substantial increase in power utilization when systems across the datacenter started consuming 100% CPU time.
»www.datacenterknowledge.com/arch···r-usage/ | |
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| | | | said by Kearnstd:Actually a bigger question is this, Why not make the servers which are idle actually do something else until called on? A modern idle CPU uses around 10W while idle vs 70-125W while under full-load. With Haswell, Intel wants to bring idle CPU power in the neighborhood of 1W.
Running Folding or any other form of unnecessary load would drastically increase power draw compared to leaving servers idle. | |
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| sparks
join:2001-07-08
Little Rock, AR | move it to the cloud..
then all that pollution won't effect us here. | |
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 mobOn the next level..Premium
join:2000-10-07 | Truth hurts Datacenters are dirty energy pigs, and that is before you even get into redundant systems. | |
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|  DaSneaky1Done wall to block them allPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou | Re: Truth hurts Would you want to live without them nowadays? | |
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| | mobOn the next level..Premium
join:2000-10-07 | Re: Truth hurts Data centers, dirty energy pigs or redundant systems? | |
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| | | said by mob:Datacenters are dirty energy pigs Which provide sweet dirty energy bacon!
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Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty - Ronald Reagan | |
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| | As usual, NYT is short on the facts Lots of things have changed. Many datacenters are now virtualized which saves a lot of energy. Some are even powered with solar and other renewable energy.
I think NYT is just jealous that they're losing their shirts to the Internet. | |
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| | | Re: As usual, NYT is short on the facts I agree - the old data center was very inefficient in terms of power per cpu cycle. I also see the trend to using more renewable energy in data centers, and I tend to stay away from the SE US for data centers, as most of the power in that area is from coal.
In fact, I am almost in route to Las Vegas NV to move our equipment from one data center to another, as we had an issue a couple of months ago, where our current dc lost power and couldn't get it back up for a few hours.
I like my servers being hosted in Las Vegas, as Hoover Dam is a major source of power, and also the solar arrays near Boulder City and north of Las Vegas. I won't lie and say that my dc is 100% green, as I am pretty sure we also get power from a coal plant just north of Vegas, but the trend is overall, much cleaner and more efficient than it was 10 years ago even. | |
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| | Tell me NYTimes..... Tell me what YOU are doing about this? The NY Times consumes vast amounts of energy both in their own Data Center(s) and running their presses. Imagine the amount of pollution that goes in to cutting down trees, transporting them, making paper, and transporting paper to their presses.
»www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2012/···a-5.html
Morons.... Can someone tell me just how much the pictured "server" are consuming? I really hate it when some jack ass pretends to know things about technology. They can't tell the difference between a server and a patch panel.
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I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company. | |
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IllIlIlllIllEliteDataPremium
join:2003-07-06
Hampton Bays, NY
kudos:7 | lets not forget about the terrestrial television & AM/FM radio stations (and government broadcast stations like WWV) who are also energy "pigs", along with cellphone radio tower sites & government radio tower sites (police, fire, emergency, etc), youve also got PTP microwave links and satellite links for telephone, internet, television, radio & government radio communications, more than most of these sites have diesel backup generators.
is there anything else i am missing ?
surely, an article pointing at data centers as being power "pigs" is one sided if you do not consider the rest of the relevant facts i pointed out.
on a different note, this is a sweet generator !
»/r0/download/2···imes.jpg
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| pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: 9; Yup... the New York Times can waste all the energy it wants... nothing wrong with that whatsoever. Not to mention their use of dead trees isn't good for the environment either... who are they to judge how an industry that actually makes money operates?
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. | |
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| |  vpokoPremium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA | Re: 9; said by pnh102:who are they to judge how an industry that actually makes money operates?
I'm with you in this case, but I don't think you mean that generally. You wouldn't want nuclear power plants throwing radioactive waste into the ocean, I assume, etc. | |
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| | Terrible Energy Pigs! We should just shut them all down ! Let our infrastructure collapse. Sounds like a great plan! Then we can live in mud huts and live green the rest of our lives. | |
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|  ropeguruPremium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA | said by brianiscool:We should just shut them all down ! Let our infrastructure collapse. Sounds like a great plan! Then we can live in mud huts and live green the rest of our lives.
That is exactly what the extreme environmentalists want. Except I bet when it happens, they will be the first to scream about not having a hot shower. | |
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| |  firephotoFacts hurtPremium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA | Re: Terrible Energy Pigs! Or you know you could go back to that old method when you had a network device that contained storage and held the things you needed and the route to fetch it was an inch or two of traces on a circuit board. Your cloud could be within walking distance in your home, office, business, work or wherever duplicated many times without paying a monthly subscription for "your data". The data that is actually not yours that you are privileged to use under a license.
It's not even surprising to see dozens of people defending an artificial system that exists only to keep people within a their virtual walls where you are required to pay for data transport multiple times in all directions in the name of "how it is".
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Say no to astroturfing. actions > Ignore Author | |
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| | | | | Re: Terrible Energy Pigs! Right? I hate the fact that I can put my databases at several data centers across the country and access it with 99.999% reliability. It's soooooo dumb to be able to have that kind of redundancy in place, as well as balance the load.
I'd rather keep it at my office on an external HD, and fedex the files to each branch office whenever they need to access the data.
I really like the idea of installing and paying for power and maintenance on a server at each office instead of virtualizing them and hosting them on a redundant cloud. | |
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| | | | firephotoFacts hurtPremium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA | Re: Terrible Energy Pigs! Yea, because that super special software that these elite data centers get to use can in no way work on any... hardware... anywhere...
But obviously you are in the industry so propping it up is required to keep the boss happy and feeling good about the ideas he is sold. Who cares about the future or past, 6 months and buy something new if it makes the 12 month profit acceptable.
It's also funny how my wallet could carry terabytes of data easily. If i listened to the industry I'd need a cloud solution offsite so when it fails "my company" can blame "another company" and still get the management treats and snacks for being a good dog. Atta-boy.
We should call this the "pass the buck" age.
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Say no to astroturfing. actions > Ignore Author | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Terrible Energy Pigs! I'm not saying it's for everyone. Obviously, if you don't need a network or offsite access/redundancy, there's no need for the cloud.
But there is a place for it, and datacenters are becoming more efficient every day.
Most computer users access "the cloud" (datacenters) every day without knowing it. Online banking/bill pay? Datacenter. netflix? Datacenter. Youtube? Datacenter. eCommerce? datacenter. wikipedia? datacenter. Google? You got it....
It's a reality that's here to stay. Without datacenters, you cant have the modern internet. | |
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 Smith6612Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:22
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..
| Re-think the designs I really think that Datacenters for all intended purposes need to have their plans re-designed. Some of the most efficient designs out there still have much work that can be done to improve efficiency. Much of what was pointed out was due to unused computing power being used on hosts, and also spinning disks that are not in demand. There isn't much you can do about the spinning disks since they need high availability and SSDs are still expensive to the Gigabyte (but they have come down a ton!), but hardware is definitely scalable to "Back off" when power is not being used without any performance hit to the end user. No need to run a machine at full speed when it's needed for only 0.001% of the time.
Redundancy and latency is another story and I won't get into that. But, if a datacenter is wasting power intentionally, then that is just wrong. | |
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| | | Re: Re-think the designs Virtualization can fix much of that. We reduced our server count significantly by virtualizing. | |
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| | Smith6612Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:22 Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..
| Re: Re-think the designs Which is what many companies have been moving to. Far more efficient and eases up redundancy to use a solid virtualization platform than to run one host (or farm), one application. Inefficiencies however, still lay with virtualizing everything so in some high performance cases it's not an option. You also still have the idle host syndrome if your setup isn't making use of the hardware enough to maximize efficiency. | |
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| | |  Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Re: Re-think the designs With how much data that actually goes through a DC, very few servers should be "idle". | |
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| | | | | | Re: Re-think the designs said by Simba7:With how much data that actually goes through a DC, very few servers should be "idle".
it depends on the datacenter. We had a number of idle servers that are now VMs. | |
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| | Ok Uh, nytimes.com? So the New York Times wastes energy AND they wasted endless amounts of paper (not so great for the environment either).
It's a dumb argument. We use energy, that's what we do. People every day use things that use energy that we don't need to survive if it came down to it. I'm not sure what their point is. | |
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rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Carbon Credits... Regardless of the efficiency progress made by data centers, the Internet and all that goes with it enables us to save lots of paper and drive less. Has anyone analyzed whether or not Internet power consumption is partially, fully or more than offset by these energy savings? | |
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: Carbon Credits... not a bad thought process. An example is I wonder how much fuel VOD services and Netflix have saved from people no longer driving out just to go to the video store. Sure with classic netflix the disk has to be delivered but the mail man was out delivering already anyway.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Re: Carbon Credits... Good example but I think that's just the tip of the iceberg. Think about how many businesses now handle significant portions of their customer service through the Internet. Banks, utilities, credit card companies (to name just a few) all have auto-pay or various bill pay features. In the past this required physical, environmentally controlled locations with lots of staff as customers lined up for the next teller/agent or staff that opened envelopes to process payments.
Many even credit Amazon for the probable death of Best Buy. Of course that might be a push since Best Buy may have fewer stores or soon, no stores but UPS and FedEx probably consume a lot of unsustainable energy products. | |
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| | | KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: Carbon Credits... I think in the case of Amazon, the UPS truck even if its getting 10mpg is actually consuming less per person than the same person driving to the mall for the same product. On the mall thought, a Mall is likely worse for the environment than a data center, when you include parking you could fit two or three large data centers on the land one large regional mall takes up.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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 IowaCowboyWant to go back to IowaPremium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
·Comcast
 ·Verizon Broadban..
| California air quality regulations I am surprised that the CARB has not cracked down on the diesel generators. Natural gas would be a cleaner option. California has the most strict regulations on air pollution. I live in Massachusetts and when I buy outdoor power equipment (such as my lawn mower and generator), it says on the carton that it is not to be sold in California. And I was looking at catalytic converters (my car needs a new Catcon) and most cats say not for use on cars registered in California (I guess it has to do with some kind of paper trail that California requires on servicing a vehicle's emissions system).
I have never been to California but we do test for emissions on 1996 and newer vehicles here in Massachusetts through the vehicle's OBD II port. 1995 and older vehicles cannot have visible smoke coming out of the tailpipe. In Iowa, they don't care if the vehicle is burning oil or has a cloud of black smoke coming out of the tailpipe.
Massachusetts does require that new vehicles sold in Massachusetts be CARB compliant.
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I wish I still lived in Iowa; Everything there from rent and groceries to Cable TV is much cheaper in Iowa (especially with an overbuilder in town). | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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 skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
·Cox HSI
·Clear Wireless
| ...and the NYT, tree murdering bird cage liner How much smog from logging, transport, making the paper, delivering the paper and eventual disposal or energy required to recycle the paper (which, unlike glass and aluminum is more than required to make it new in the first place).
Typical NYT hypocrisy: look at what they do, not what we do symbolism over substance. | |
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KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Can the cooling be made more efficient? I am figuring one thing neglected when non tech people think about how much power a server farm uses is the cooling. So if you say have a datacenter in a northern state is it bad for the servers if you say during winter rather than running the AC just open a vent and feed their cooling fans that nice 15deg winter air?
Or has anyone considered revisiting the costly but possibly more efficient water cooling, I know with water you can run a PC in a much higher ambient temp overall as water and a heat exchanger can transfer more heat per amount of space used than a standard HSF.
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|  jimkPremium
join:2006-04-15
Raleigh, NC
·RoadRunner Cable
·voip.ms
| Re: Can the cooling be made more efficient? The problem with putting data centers in cooler climates is practicality and the need of geographic diversity. For example, a small startup offering a "cloud" service based in the southern US probably doesn't want to collocate their equipment at a data center in Canada - that's not where there staff is. Also, any air brought in from outside would still need to be filtered, and even then you still have to worry about humidity... too much or too little can be an issue. So it isn't ever as simple as opening a vent.
Liquid cooling has discussed and even in the industry, and there are several systems out there. However, there are numerous issues to contend with. The first one would be leaks... in a home gaming PC, it gives you an excuse to buy new and faster hardware... in a data center, it leads to a disaster costing tons of money. Corrosion or microbial buildup is a big concern in water based systems, and if you add chemicals to prevent these issues (or use something other than water), the environmental benefits could be reduced, leading to another crap storm from all of the usual sources.
There's just not a single solution right now. | |
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jimkPremium
join:2006-04-15
Raleigh, NC Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
·voip.ms
| The New York Slimes... "All the news thats fit to wrap fish with" quote from the Mark Levin Show
Yes, data centers use a lot of power, but if you want high availability, you need a lot of redundancy including battery backup and generators. The generators must be maintained, which means running them periodically to make sure that they start in the first place and produce stable power. A diesel generator like anything else with an engine doesn't like to sit unused. Battery backups waste a certain amount of power (especially an online UPS which is needed for some sensitive equipment) but they are needed to provide power until the generators are started and running properly. They also smooth out any brief brownouts that can and do occur.
Something tells me that if a major company that a lot of people relied on ran their data centers without redundancy and experienced an outage, the same people that wrote this article would be complaining, saying that the "greedy executives" pocketed the money instead of investing it in the company and that the government needs to do something about it.
As technology improves, efficiency is improving. Even moderately priced servers are very powerful, and when combined with virtualization, it is becoming a lot more practical to run a higher workload with fewer servers (and it also becomes easier to add capacity as needed). | |
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| | hrm i'm kinda blown away so many people here are taking this as some kind of personal attack and immediately responding with a "but but but THE NYT PRINTS ON TONS OF PAPER! so they're bad too!"
i read this as a "we can do better if we try" report.
which, contrary to the people suggesting this is some sort of evil liberal "lets send more jobs to china" column, seems very reasonable to me. | |
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| Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
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| Re: hrm Yeah its called the free market. There is intense competition for cloud services right now, and the ones with the most efficient datacenters will win. Free competition is how things get better, not when the government regulates us out of business like they already have.
Most people think outsourcing manufacturing is because of labor costs -- negative it's regulation. It costs $75c to build an iphone. If it would cost $10+ in the US, even though labor rates would be 2x to 3x higher the rest is thanks to Uncle Sam. I watched company after company show me the numbers and pack up ops and move to Asia. Even with economic dev zones practically zeroing out taxes and comping on utilities, ye old EPA and state regs were too much to handle. That is shifting now due to quality, time to market, and rising oil prices (another benefit to Obama's term). Apple is even setting up shop (Foxconn) in Brazil.
And BTW datacenters in my area (UNY) only need to run chillers 2 months out of the year, and VMware rules the DC. I stepped into a circa 90's DC last week and only 10% of it was used by computer equipment, and it was upgraded to the latest Emerson chillers. And it uses fresh air exchange 10 months of the year (massive HRV). That is not unique, customers are shuddering DC's and moving to colos because 20 racks can run a Fortune 1000 company these days.
Whomever wrote this piece obviously doesn't get it.
I will admit diesel generators are the weak point, but as I said companies are busy retrofitting them to run ULS Diesel and be less particulate polluting.
The liberal press can go sit in the brier patch. | |
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| skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | It shows their typical lack of objectivity. If the NYT wanted to "try" and help the environment they would stop printing their newspapers and go online only. | |
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| | | | Re: hrm said by skeechan:It shows their typical lack of objectivity. no it doesn't. comments regarding the "greenness" of the newspaper industry are outside the scope of this discussion.
said by skeechan:If the NYT wanted to "try" and help the environment they would stop printing their newspapers and go online only. that's the same dismissive attitude as "well EVERY person complaining about global warming should stop driving their car immediately".
it contributes nothing to intelligent discourse, and labels the person spouting that opinion as a fool unable to focus on the topic at hand.
at least elefante72 pointed out improvements being made by the DC industry, which certainly could have been in the article, but the point of the article, is that anyone telling themselves that "the cloud" is a wonderful "green" solution, is fooling themselves.
data centers are getting better with their energy efficiency. but any and all of us should hope they continue to improve, and not simply rest on their laurels. | |
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 StuartMWWho Is John Galt?Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2
·CenturyLink
| Oh the ironing... Without those "Polluting Energy Pig" datacenters (and other power stations) how would anyone read the New York Times website?
Oh the ironing (irony)!
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Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow! | |
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| | It's Geography, not data! The Times is suffering from a peculiar dementia of its 170-year history, showing a serious lack of proportion.
Every one of those plutocrat towers in NYC is built on seeping and swampy foundations right next to rivers and oceans, which must be pumped out at huge electrical cost twenty-four seven forever; the high and dry mainland, poor-people Bronx is the only exception. The towers would eventually collapse otherwise.
The juice to do this is immense compared to the examples of data-center power waste; it's like comparing a flashlight to a brilliantly lit stadium!
Geography is the big power waster in New York, not the Internet. | |
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zoomer
join:2007-09-06
Rochester, NY | Relative It's all relative. Which has more pollution:
Using a computer to find some fact vs Driving around to various libraries around the region doing research to do the same
Ordering and downloading a piece of IP online vs driving to the store to get it
Ordering an item and have it delivered in the mail vs making a special trip to some faraway store to get it
Making a virtual bonfire vs a real bonfire
Yes, 1 datacenter that serves million of users probably puts out more pollution than 1 car. But that 1 car driving around gives you at most a couple of users. | |
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