 axus join:2001-06-18 Washington, DC | Try rephrasing the question... How many Americans don't they spy on? | |
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 |  | | Re: Try rephrasing the question... If this had a "Like" button, I would hit it! | |
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 |  |  axus join:2001-06-18 Washington, DC | Re: Try rephrasing the question... Hehe, try "actions", then "Ignore author"... I mean "approval for the post". | |
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 |  WHT join:2010-03-26 Rosston, TX kudos:5 | said by axus:How many Americans don't they spy on? Yeah...That would be a much shorter list. | |
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 |  KearnstdElf WizardPremium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ | as far as I know there is nobody they cannot spy on.
I bet the big telcos beyond AT&T even feed them data directly.
But I have stopped being too worried because I know there is nothing one can do besides encryption that wont cause you to "disappear". -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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 LinklistPremium join:2002-03-03 Longport, NJ kudos:5 | Spying on Americans not illegal; using it in court is
People keep confusing spying vs using results in court. There are laws limiting what can be used in court as a result of spying. There are virtually no laws or rules limiting what the NSA can collect. The Congress, in authorizing the NSA, gave them carte blanche to spy on everything. It also doesn't prevent the NSA and those they share info with(CIA, FBI) from using that info to take actions to defend the US from bad actors(foreign or domestic). Any info that the FBI gets after a heads up has to follow the usual court rules on evidence if they plan on prosecuting someone.
A simplified example. NSA spying ID's someone worth investigating. They pass that tip to FBI. FBI then starts investigating and follows usual procedures and obtains warrants to collect evidence. The original tip by the NSA doesn't enter in to the court record.
P.S.>> Just like J. Edgar Hoover had the dirt on all the congresscritters, so now does the NSA. The mostly corrupt semi-criminals in Congress know not to bite the hand that knows all their dark, dirty secrets. Congress will do nothing to rein in the NSA. They are all too vulnerable to risk being exposed. | |
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 |  axus join:2001-06-18 Washington, DC | Re: Spying on Americans not illegal; using it in court is Fourth amendment to the constitution?
I do agree that blackmailing politicians is one side effect of this kind of spying. The problem is, what if the current administration used it to suppress only Republican candidates? | |
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 |  | | All agencies, no matter how big or small, were created by congress to off load their duties and as such are ultimately accountable to congress.
How and why any agency can actually not fully disclose information and evade direct questions of congress is beyond me.
No agency should be above the law of the constitution nor the accountability to congress and ultimately to it's people. | |
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 |  elios join:2005-11-15 Springfield, MO | accept when it matters like 9-11 when the FBI agent attached to NSA asked for them to turn the info over and the NSA wouldnt turn it over so the FBI could stop them
kinda fail | |
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 |  |  LinklistPremium join:2002-03-03 Longport, NJ kudos:5 | Re: Spying on Americans not illegal; using it in court is said by elios:accept when it matters like 9-11 when the FBI agent attached to NSA asked for them to turn the info over and the NSA wouldnt turn it over so the FBI could stop them
kinda fail Hence, all the new laws on sharing info since 9-11 | |
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 |  |  |  elios join:2005-11-15 Springfield, MO | Re: Spying on Americans not illegal; using it in court is only now they collect so much information they dont have the man power to do any thing with it
GG NSA | |
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 |  |  CylonRedPremium,MVM join:2000-07-06 Bloom County | But then - 9-11 proves more spying on US citizens was not needed. What was\is needed is more cooperation between agencies. -- Brian
"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain | |
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 |  camaro92Question everythingPremium join:2008-04-05 Westfield, MA Reviews:
·Comcast
| said by Linklist:P.S.>> Just like J. Edgar Hoover had the dirt on all the congresscritters, so now does the NSA. The mostly corrupt semi-criminals in Congress know not to bite the hand that knows all their dark, dirty secrets. Congress will do nothing to rein in the NSA. They are all too vulnerable to risk being exposed. That is the most simple and accurate answer that describes it's history I have heard in awhile.
Also this a isn't news maybe ten or twelve years ago it would be but not in 2012. | |
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 | | We'd like to... invoke State Secrets your honor.
And that's all she wrote... -- Splat | |
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 |  ctceoPremium join:2001-04-26 South Bend, IN | Re: We'd like to... The funny thing is, though you'd be looked at funny by everyone in the courtroom, you could as a citizen claim the same thing in your own defense and.....likely not get away with it though it would be purely legal to do so. | |
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 | | uh huh... ...and it's considered stealing only if you get caught. -- Praise the Gods, Do Good, Act Bravely.
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 |  Rogue WolfReally Ties The Room Together join:2003-08-12 Troy, NY | To paraphrase the Traveling Wilburys: "In Jersey Congress anything's legal, as long as you don't get caught" -- I may have been born yesterday, but I've spent all afternoon downtown. | |
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 | | our rights We need to take our country back | |
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 |  Reviews:
·Northland Cable ..
| Re: our rights Nothing short of a armed revolution can restore the constitution. History shows us that men in power do EVERYTHING they can to retain their power. Lie, Steal, Cheat and Kill. This country is lost and our children are doomed. 
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEorxBT0bcM | |
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 Rogue WolfReally Ties The Room Together join:2003-08-12 Troy, NY | Remember.... The big bad TERRORISTS hate us for our freedoms. The wicked, horrible TERRORISTS want to destroy our freedoms. We will defeat those evil TERRORISTS by destroying our freedoms before they can! -- I may have been born yesterday, but I've spent all afternoon downtown. | |
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 | | NSA is just an American version of the Gestapo. No one should be surprised at what they do, legal or illegal, and they will get away with it anyway. | |
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 tshirtPremium,MVM join:2004-07-11 Snohomish, WA kudos:3 | Paranoia will destroy ya... . | |
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 | | Occam's razor Power of the purse. Congress holds the authority to defund agencies that grow too large or abuse their power. If Congress wanted to stop the NSA, CIA, or TSA they would just cut funding. Unfortunately, the revolving door of corruption and kickbacks between Government agencies, private industry, and Congressmen has prohibited any intervention from taking place. | |
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 |  ctceoPremium join:2001-04-26 South Bend, IN Reviews:
·magicjack.com
·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: Occam's razor Everyone knows what happens to people who "cut funding" to agencies such as the NSA, or CIA...
You end up with dirt on the cutters flying everywhere from unknown sources and were usually left with an even shadier handful of individuals than before as the ones who kept their mouth shut get to keep their jobs and lives. | |
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 | | The NSA Is Building the Country's Biggest Spy Center There was an article in Wired a few months back about the new center NSA is building to listen in on us all. Huge building, more here for anyone interested: »www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/0···acenter/ | |
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 Reviews:
·Mediacom
·RoadRunner Cable
| Framework for understanding what's going on here Essentially this is political theater.
The senators asking these questions at an open hearing know very well the classified details of what the NSA is actually doing under established law and interpretation, which the Obama administration supports, carried over from the Bush administration which initiated all this after 9/11. (Not that I personally know any of these classified details, just to be clear.).
They just don't agree with those laws and interpretations. But they know they can't win repeal outright (far from it, actually). So this campaign is an attempt to reframe the discussion and to generate media attention by trying to drag classified details into the open in a back door way.
"But it's such a simple request! Just tell this committee, in an open hearing, details about how many Americans were involved in intercepted communications?"
Really? That's not going to happen. And, THEY KNOW THAT.
So they force an answer like the one they got. Then they can fire up the media just like you see happening.
Don't get spun by this. Understand the true nature of this campaign. Whether you agree with these Senators goals, or not. Debate the issues on their merits, not some ginned up "controversy". | |
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