  SSX4lifeHello WorldPremium
join:2004-02-13
kudos:2 | News flash ~~~~~Microsoft not wrong!!~~~~~~~ I hate it when big faceless companies blame the end user for a glitch in their OS. You would never see Apple blame the users for getting some form of messed up drm spyware on their PC's. | |
|
 | | | Re: News flash ~~~~~Microsoft not wrong!!~~~~~~~ said by SSX4life:I hate it when big faceless companies blame the end user for a glitch in their OS. You would never see Apple blame the users for getting some form of messed up drm spyware on their PC's. If macs were even worth the time of hackers, then that scenario probably will happen. You do know Apple is the same kind of big faceless company as microsoft. But, you don't have microsoft suing people for using illegal copies, yet you have apple suing people over a free beta. It would seem microsoft has a little more compassion than apple. | |
|
| |  CylonRedPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County | Re: News flash ~~~~~Microsoft not wrong!!~~~~~~~ Until they think you sold illegal copies - even is MS is wrong they still try to prosecute. They are WELL known for heavy handed tactics including searching your PC for illegal software when going to their update site - which they have supposedly stopped doing but their new spyware purchase now checks for XP legality and who knows what else it is checking.
--
Brian
America's Army Forum Moderator and America's Army Beta Tester | |
|
| |  DaDogsSemper VigilantisPremium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA | said by insomniac84:... But, you don't have microsoft suing people for using illegal copies, yet. ... Just had to correct this sentence for you  . Microsoft has it's own ugly history of litigation designed to put down competition. Do try to remember this whilst also trying to remember all faceless megaliths are the same.
--
I'd rather chew sand than watch sixty seconds of 60 minutes. | |
|
| | | | | Re: News flash ~~~~~Microsoft not wrong!!~~~~~~~ You add yet, but that's pointless because you don't know what their plans are. I bet they are going to tough out XP and develop something new to prevent stolen copies of longhorn from working. | |
|
| |  NerdtalkerWorking Hard, Or Hardly Working?Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ | said by insomniac84:yet you have apple suing people over a free beta. It would seem microsoft has a little more compassion than apple. AMEN!!! I'm sick of apple being placed in some sort of magical moral high ground, especially after the recent issue with Tiger you allude to.
--
Touch a thistle timidly, and it pricks you; grasp it boldly, and its spines crumble. -William S. Halsey
Kazaa Is Spyware. Gator / Claria Is Spyware.
I'm testing Gmail's spam filters: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
Spam: 2785 | |
|
|  ThalerPremium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 | Actually, Apple's standard retort to our problems at our site is to blame the users. That's why we no longer even consult them for Customer Service. (Yes, I'm sure that our rash of HW failures for specific product lines that's even being experienced by others on the 'net...are due to our users not knowing what to do. Whatever.)
Of course, the people who do corporate "customer support" are different from the ones who support the OS, so YMMV. | |
|
|  a
@qwest.net | then go to the grocery store & buy an apple. | |
|
 clevere1Premium
join:2002-01-06
Vancouver, WA
kudos:1 | It's about time. It's not only the users fault  | |
|
 knightmbEverybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN | Either way To me it's nothing but the blame game. First it's the user's fault, then Microsoft, then the companies that exploit it, then Microsoft blames both but will release a patch because everyone is blaming them, etc, etc.
One of them needs to confess, but I don't see any of the three taking the full brute of this in my opinion. I think the blame goes across the board, Microsoft made a feature without thinking of the effects, users click "OK" to anything and everything they see, and other companies are using both bad security design of most Microsoft products and users eagerness to click "OK" to exploit loopholes in both.
In my opinion, the companies that exploit this should take the brute of this, followed by Microsoft, then the average Joe user.
--
Independent Music Online | |
|
| | | Re: Either way This isn't really about blame though. At least it's not supposed to be. It should be about fixing an exploit. That's the problem with American culture. We are more interested on who we are going to point the finger at and less interested in just fixing the problem. My take on fixing the problem:
To the companies that exploit it - Civil penalties. The only real way to curb bad behaviour is some sort of punishment or deterrent.
To Microsoft - Fix the hole. They are now owning up to their part in the solution. Finally.
To the end user - Educate yourself. Don't accept everything that comes in front of you. Especially on your computer. Like the old saying goes, don't take candy from strangers. | |
|
| | ThalerPremium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 | Re: Either way But stranger's candy tastes so especially yummy for that very reason! 
You mean we're NOT supposed to download and install every executable we find on the 'net? I'm shocked! | |
|
| |  AthlGrondPremium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO | So how many days did this one take?
--
"I drank what?" -Socrates | |
|
| | | | | Re: Either way I'm guessing about seven for Microsoft to go from "It's your fault and we're not going to anything about it" to okay we'll fix the exploit. Even then they said the turnaround on the fix will be about 30 days. Still it's progress. | |
|
| | | | AthlGrondPremium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO | Re: Either way If I recall correctly didn't the person who said "It's yer own fault" work in their PR department?
--
"I drank what?" -Socrates | |
|
| | | | | | | Re: Either way Gotta love those faux pas moments. | |
|
| | no os is safe I own a Mac and I know first hand there are bugs and flaws in OSX. OMG One was found yesterday. A lot of us who use OSX think were safe but we aren't just wait another year and we will all have Norton bogging down our system.
Only Fanboys think they are safe real OSX users know it's only a matter of time.
--
Email/MSN: Michael at hardwaregeeks.comAIM: MikeR35292 | |
|
| | | Re: no os is safe Evey OS is perfectly safe as long it's left on it's distribution media and never installed | |
|
| | cdrworm
join:2002-08-09
San Diego, CA | Re: no os is safe your right it is the end users fault. its part of the Windows Media Player license. | |
|
 DennisPremium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
kudos:5 | hello????? CLICKING YES TO INSTALL SOMETHING IS NOT AN EXPLOIT, IT'S IDIOCY. | |
|
| ThalerPremium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
1 edit | Re: hello????? said by Dennis:CLICKING YES TO INSTALL SOMETHING IS NOT AN EXPLOIT, IT'S IDIOCY. Hey, Yahoo! Messenger just tried to install via the .EXE exploit, should I complain to them?
I mean, I just like double-clicking on icons, who knew that theirs would install something?!? | |
|
| DaDogsSemper VigilantisPremium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA | Do go read up on what is being called an exploit here. You fail to understand the complaint against Microsoft.
»WMP Adware: A Case Study in Deception
--
I'd rather chew sand than watch sixty seconds of 60 minutes. | |
|
| | |
| | | DaDogsSemper VigilantisPremium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
1 edit | Re: hello????? quote:
For those who have not followed this story, researchers have discovered specially designed Windows Media Player files that will initiate the installation of spyware and adware when users attempt to play those files. These specially designed media files exploit the DRM (Digital Rights Management) functionality that Microsoft built into Windows Media Player by opening web pages in hosted instances of Internet Explorer. The ostensible purpose for opening these special Internet Explorer windows (which resemble dialog boxes) is to acquire license information needed to play the media files. Once open, though, these hosted instances of Internet Explorer can be used to initiate the download and installation of spyware and adware, just as happens in drive-by-downloads at regular web sites.
[snip]
These installation prompts, we already know, are inherently confusing for most users, especially when users encounter them in unexpected circumstances
One good quote deserves another...
Context is everything...
This is an exploit.
--
I'd rather chew sand than watch sixty seconds of 60 minutes.
| |
|
| | | | DennisPremium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
kudos:5 | Re: hello????? I wasn't quoting to try to make my case sound better. I just personally don't agree this is a flaw in the OS as I define an exploit to be.
Social engineering can't be patched. | |
|
| | | | | | right... the EUs are receiving prompts, which require READING of said prompts and then acting upon such information accordingly. not an exploit, unless you consider it an exploit of the End Users impatience or ignorance.
--
This world needs an enema. | |
|
| | |  Phil BKPremium
join:2002-05-18
Miami, FL | Maybe in a business setting that would make sense. But you can not expect home users to know the ins and outs of how you can be tricked by malware authors. A direct comparison would be Virus vendors saying it's the user's fault for opening that email attachment. It's exactly the same thing. The pop up does not say "click to install spyware/virus/other malware" it says something that an average computer user may find interesting, or more often, non-threatening.
The exploit is in the software, making it possible to do these installs, even with user permission. It's social engineering that gets the people to click yes.
--
If at first you don't succeed...bug them till you get what you want. | |
|
| | | | | | Re: hello????? said by Phil BK:The exploit is in the software, making it possible to do these installs, even with user permission. It's social engineering that gets the people to click yes. OK I can agree with that a bit. It is the manipulation of the EUs tendency to click OK or YES w/o fully reading or comprehending. In the beginning, I fell for it, but pretty soon I caught on and read which company wants to install what. I research what file type, extension or codec does what.
--
This world needs an enema. | |
|
| | | | | DaDogsSemper VigilantisPremium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA
1 edit | Re: hello????? said by AtomicZero: said by Phil BK:The exploit is in the software, making it possible to do these installs, even with user permission. It's social engineering that gets the people to click yes. OK I can agree with that a bit. It is the manipulation of the EUs tendency to click OK or YES w/o fully reading or comprehending. In the beginning, I fell for it, but pretty soon I caught on and read which company wants to install what. I research what file type, extension or codec does what. On the one hand Microsoft wants to make an OS so easy to use that a monkey can operate it, on the other hand they don't want to take resposibility for the problems that causes.
Sure a user has to 'click' on something and yes there is a lot of human engineering going on... but a MOVIE FILE SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO REQUEST THE INSTALLATION OF ANYTHING ...
That is just simply brain dead engineering. How stupid is it to allow a WMV to request the installation of software?
--
I'd rather chew sand than watch sixty seconds of 60 minutes.
| |
|
| | | | | | | | Re: hello????? so you find it to MS's fault because they want to make things convenient? I don't know if you've ever done any type of customer service or tech support but there are people out there that have WIN98 and some pretty ancient software [including mediaplayers] that if they did not provide auto updates and prompting for auto updates their PC would just RUST.
But the important thing here is that convenience should not be confused with laziness [tho it tends to breed a lot of it]. That's like saying McDonald's is responsible for making one fat, which is ridiculous because there was no coercion to buy the food or eat it.
--
This world needs an enema. | |
|
| | | | | | | | | Re: hello????? There is a big difference between someone driving up to a McD's for a fatty cheeseburger and being prompted to accept software to watch a video clip. You're going to McDonald's, but the exploit is coming to you. Besides this isn't about blaming Microsoft for someone clicking on malware. It's about Microsoft stepping up to the task of making their software more secure by preventing the malware from taking advantage of limitations in their OS.
People click email executables that has a new virus on it yet McAfee, Norton and the rest stil make constant updates to ensure that computer is protected by the user's actions. | |
|
| | | | | | | | | | Re: hello????? said by SRFireside:but the exploit is coming to you. Besides this isn't about blaming Microsoft for someone clicking on malware. It's about Microsoft stepping up to the task of making their software more secure by preventing the malware from taking advantage of limitations in their OS. People click email executables that has a new virus on it yet McAfee, Norton and the rest stil make constant updates to ensure that computer is protected by the user's actions. Um I think we agree. Because I agree 100% with what you said. However there are entities out there that will take something great and corrupt it to their own will. So it's up to us, the EUs to keep vigil and read stuff to make sure we don't get chumped.
That's why I don't blame Microsoft. I concur that it is a flaw in the O/S and Mediaplayer that people are taking advantage of. But what is key, is that for the computers to become infected or ads to appear is for the person to actively click YES/OK/I AGREE. If I get an email laden with viruses, consider is it a source I know or from a source I do not? The only time I get a virus now is if it came from a source I know [someone I know sending me a contaminated file] and most of the time most email clients will scrub, quarantine or delete that file 1st.
--
This world needs an enema. | |
|
| | | | | | | | | DaDogsSemper VigilantisPremium
join:2004-02-28
Deltaville, VA | Re: hello????? I find it poor engineering to allow an application such as the movie player to be prompted by any Tom, Dick, or Harry to run an update.
Ever see IE prompt you for an update? How about Outlook, or OE?
Point is it is braindead to allow an application which ships with the OS to install software when a media file is accessed.
So, yeah, I blame Microsoft for poor engineering.
--
I'd rather chew sand than watch sixty seconds of 60 minutes. | |
|
|  inciterNoobiePremium
join:2000-08-30
Rohnert Park, CA | What's really interesting is that every word in this thread(s) will not make a difference in what is happening. Complainers and defenders will never solve problems.
So I leave it at that while I go out and drive my new car 100 mph around curves just like on TV . Shoot a recall on brake systems? never heard of it.
--
A SUCKER is born every min. On the Internet a SUCKER is born every Sec. | |
|
| | | After teaching users how to click, now, when they do, you want to call them idiots.
See, many, many users are clueless people who think an email or pop up ad is a genuine offer. They're not idiots - they might be your mother, father, grandmother, brother, sister - it's human nature to trust. They're clueless because they aren't as savvy as you and others. The PC is just another appliance to them. Regrettably, they probably DO cause much of the propagation of viruses, spyware etc, but what shall we do - ban them from using a PC?
The techies need to find ways to save us from the non-techies on the internet. And Microsoft needs to be whupped upside the head for its arrogance. Yes, Linux on the desktop is looking better and better. It ain't paradise, but it ain't MS either. | |
|
| |
See 9 replies to this post |
| | MICROSUCKS - What a waste of humanity... The morons at Fraud Central haven't got a friggin clue. They couldn't find their a$$hole with both hands and a road map! | |
|
|
See 7 replies to this post |
|
 jose3030Premium
join:1999-08-17
Manassas, VA | "Dont run files from untrusted sources" I mean, SERIOUSLY, besides banks and people we've done business in the past --- who can you TRUST, seriously?
I mean, my buddy may send me a video, I TRUST him,
But the video has a trojan on it.
What then?
Microsoft's stance was just idiotic from the start! | |
|
|  CPUYODA
join:2003-01-25
Johnson City, TN | Re: "Dont run files from untrusted sources" I believe at first,it looked like(to them,MS) that it used code that was standardized with the format,hence why they said no fix was coming.
Just my guess..
--
"In God We Trust,All Others Pay Cash" | |
|
 JammerMan79Premium,VIP
join:2004-05-13
Prince George, BC
kudos:10 | easy to stop can't you just go:
tools - options - privacy - uncheck acquire licenses automatically for protected content
wouldn't that stop something from opening up a webpage? | |
|
|
|
