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story category Microsoft: Teens Ain't Too Bright About Piracy
And we're going to 'educate' them...
06:16PM Wednesday Feb 13 2008 by Karl
tags: Fileswapping · business · stats · content
Last week, RIAA President Cary Sherman, when he wasn't suggesting that AV software should scan for pirated material, hinted that there'd be less piracy if users simply knew what they were doing was illegal. Sherman opined that AT&T's upcoming piracy filters would effectively work as moral signposts, giving users a slight slap on the wrist should they get into downloading copyright materials.

Click for full size
Microsoft seems to be reading from the same guide, and today issued the results of a survey that claims teens are less likely to download illegally when they know the laws. According to the survey, about half of teens surveyed aren't familiar with laws protecting copyrighted materials. About 11% fully grasped copyright law (or at least Microsoft's interpretation of it). Microsoft's solution is to head to the classrooms to "educate" the children:
Microsoft has enlisted Topics Education, a developer of custom curricula, to help launch the pilot of a broad-based curriculum for middle school and high school educators titled “Intellectual Property Rights Education.” The curriculum is focused on preparing students for the digital age, helping them understand in a meaningful way how intellectual property rights affect their lives and sparking discussion to clarify the “gray areas” in protected and shared content. To complement the curriculum and enhance the learning experience, Microsoft is also launching an interactive Web site, »www.mybytes.com, where kids can develop their own intellectual property and assign usage rights by mixing music online to create a custom riff that they can download as a ringtone.
Unlike the MPAA's "What's The Diff?" campaign and the BSA's now-retired copyright crusading ferret, hopefully Microsoft will take the time to educate kids on their fair use rights as well. We're wondering if anyone has quizzed Microsoft themselves on copyright laws lately and how successful they'd be at getting it right.

While it's believable that kids don't know copyright law (13% can find Iraq or Iran on a map) does knowledge of piracy laws really impact piracy? Would AT&T's piracy filters really impact piracy if all they did was alert you that you're breaking the law? Do corporations belong in the classroom?

Related:
  1. 16 Million Americans Pirated A Film Last Month
  2. Nobody Actually Knows Precise P2P Traffic Stats
  3. ISPs To Start Booting More P2P Users
  4. Canada Considering ISP Piracy Tax?
  5. U2 Manager: Crazy ISP Hippies Should Pay Us
  6. Send Your Enemy's Printer A DMCA Warning!
  7. Rhapsody Ditches the DRM
  8. Top Torrent Sites According to Google
Forums » Microsoft: Teens Ain't Too Bright About Piracy

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Skeedatl
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edit:
February 13th, @05:51PM

They're plenty bright

"They" (a generic they) just have no morals and don't give a sh!t about other people's property, physical or virtual.

To these individuals, everything should be free.

You can thank their idiot parents for this excellent set of values.

Unfortunately, the MPAA and RIAA criminal racketeers are no better.

knightmb

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edit:
February 13th, @07:21PM

Re: They're plenty bright

I looked at one of their polls (voted in it too )

Interesting results from the "kids".

major marco
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edit:
February 13th, @08:46PM

Re: They're plenty bright

Two words for this poll: OH PLEASE.

A total of 501 10th grade students were interviewed for this poll. 501 out of HOW many gajillions of people download -in the **AAs estimation- or is something like $100 gajillion dollars they're "losing" to "pirates." I keep mixing the two up.

In other news, I conducted my own poll and found that 100% of corporate executives thought that it was OK to buy off a politician to get legislation passed in their industry's favor and in an additional poll, another 100% of *AAs executives had absolutely no idea what fair rights use was.
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Skeedatl
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edit:
February 13th, @09:00PM

Re: They're plenty bright

In looking at the poll I'd vote the same way.

Sure looks like if I own the CD, I could make a personal copy under the fair use provision as many times as I need one.

The poll makes no mention of what those copies are used for of if they imply giving it away (piracy).

GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
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Re: They're plenty bright

said by Skeedatl See Profile :

In looking at the poll I'd vote the same way.

Sure looks like if I own the CD, I could make a personal copy under the fair use provision as many times as I need one.

The poll makes no mention of what those copies are used for of if they imply giving it away (piracy).
Yea this poll sucks on ice.

Fact is that as you say there is no mention of the use of the ripped copy, and honestly there is no violation of copyright in ripping the cd 100x for your own personal use.

This poll might or might not have been dictated by the RIAA but whomever created it is an idiot.

What I have been saying for awhile now is that they're beginning to make statements which call into question the very notion of ripping a CD you purchase for your own use.

They aren't saying it is "illegal" flat out yet, but as I see it they're staging things in such a way to almost make that argument.
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major marco
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Re: They're plenty bright

said by GlobalMind See Profile :

What I have been saying for awhile now is that they're beginning to make statements which call into question the very notion of ripping a CD you purchase for your own use.

They aren't saying it is "illegal" flat out yet, but as I see it they're staging things in such a way to almost make that argument.
Actually, the brilliant minds at the RIAA have already said as much, but then typically backpedaled when they were collectively laughed outta the blogosphere.
--
The Toll

Let's Go Flyers!

GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
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Hollywood, FL

Re: They're plenty bright

Ahh, good call. Forgot that one.

I was actually referring to the recent case where initially it looked like they were suing over the guy ripping the CD, but in fact it was for his distribution of it.

Neyland85

join:2003-02-04
North Augusta, SC
·AT&T Southeast


edit:
February 14th, @08:45AM

Actually I *believe* there is. Most of the fair use doctrine established by the courts deals directly with ANALOG home recording technology, the use for commentary, research, and education. Making a copy for yourself crosses into the copyright holders duplication section of the law which gives the copyright holder rights of duplication. By purchasing the 'performance' the copyright holder has not transfered that right of duplication to you.

Many of the laws that deal with copyright seem to be more lax on analog technology and virtually strips the consumer of any protection on digital media. In fact, the way I read it, I'm surprised that DVRs are even legal.

I wrote my congressman about the need for true copyright reform and a 'consumer' bill of rights that define an owner's rights after purchasing a work. He replied with some 2006 brief to congress on the current state of copyright law.

Again, this is how I read what the brief (~30 pages). I'm not a lawyer. What struck me was, Ok you've looked out for the copyright holder... where have you given any rights to the consumer?

GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
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Hollywood, FL

Re: They're plenty bright

said by Neyland85 See Profile :

Actually I *believe* there is. Most of the fair use doctrine established by the courts deals directly with ANALOG home recording technology, the use for commentary, research, and education. Making a copy for yourself crosses into the copyright holders duplication section of the law which gives the copyright holder rights of duplication. By purchasing the 'performance' the copyright holder has not transfered that right of duplication to you.

Many of the laws that deal with copyright seem to be more lax on analog technology and virtually strips the consumer of any protection on digital media. In fact, the way I read it, I'm surprised that DVRs are even legal.
Well the Sony Betamax case »www.museum.tv/archives/etv/B/htm···case.htm created the foundation for extending home video recording of TV programming to time-shift the program.

The media folks have also acknowledged - see major marco's post - that copying for your own use is OK (after they said it wasn't). Personally I think the intent to distribute is really the kicker in the whole thing.

What they're annoyed with is that they don't make money off the copyright when songs are uploaded or CDs copied and then distributed.

k.
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punker
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edit:
February 13th, @09:28PM

said by knightmb See Profile :

I looked at one of their polls (voted in it too )

Interesting results from the "kids".
EVEN Sony says

"own it" on dvd today or on XXXXXX date


--
Ω?

Feb148

@frognet.net

Re: Own it today!

That's a good point.

The ad doesn't say "own the dvd" but "own it on DVD" -- heh, so I guess it's Sony's fault we have an expectation of 'owning' the movie.

Kewl, I may go own some more movies today.

joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
Gainesville, FL

edit:
February 13th, @11:09PM

What crap is that you need to REGISTER to take a poll?

/edit: Ended up registering with username FCKGWRHQQ2

--
09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0
jester121

join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

Re: They're plenty bright

Damn pirates! hehe

(is it a bad sign if I recognize that code?)

joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
Gainesville, FL

Re: They're plenty bright

It's only a bad sign if you know of "vbs net cn"

LOL Windows anti-piracy.
--
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mustang03282

join:2003-01-10
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said by Skeedatl See Profile :

"They" (a generic they) just have no morals and don't give a sh!t about other people's property, physical or virtual.

To these individuals, everything should be free.

You can thank their idiot parents for this excellent set of values.

Unfortunately, the MPAA and RIAA criminal racketeers are no better.
why is everyone so quick to blame the children. The children have done nothing wrong there is nothing in there generation worth pirateing blame the parents at least we had good music to copy
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard

join:2002-01-22
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well the ISPs are also partly to blame "download your favorite music 100x faster then dialup"
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Proud Pirate

@rr.com

Yeah!

There IS no piracy.
Sharing is NOT stealing. Never has been, never will.
What IS illegal is the gov, ms, you name it, slapping people with fines for creating copies of things they buy.

You can do whatever you want with what you buy.
Secondly, the fact that they are lying to you when you buy it, & treating it like a rental... It is called truth in advertising...

FALSE ADVERTISING! They need to be sued 7 brought down.
So what if someone creates a billion copies? If they bought it, they own it!

You can't "own" "intellectual property" besides!
If you could, no-one would be able to think the same thought twice.

Riaa, mpaa, whoever, if you are reading this, rot in hell, I DON'T CARE!

TK Junk Mail
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New feature for "Patch Tuesday"

Microsoft's solution is to head to the classrooms to "educate" the children
They just have to add a new feature to their monthly Patch Tuesday process thru "Windows Update". A short monthly video educating people on copyright infringement that must be played before the rest of the updates can be applied.
xirian
Premium
join:2003-01-26
Beacon, NY

Re: New feature for "Patch Tuesday"

nah it should sit in the system tray and pop up every once in a while to alert you your music might be stolen.
moonpuppy

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said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

Microsoft's solution is to head to the classrooms to "educate" the children
They just have to add a new feature to their monthly Patch Tuesday process thru "Windows Update". A short monthly video educating people on copyright infringement that must be played before the rest of the updates can be applied.
How much will they count against my monthly usage cap?
Kearnstd
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said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

Microsoft's solution is to head to the classrooms to "educate" the children
They just have to add a new feature to their monthly Patch Tuesday process thru "Windows Update". A short monthly video educating people on copyright infringement that must be played before the rest of the updates can be applied.
naw they will just make us have to Activate our music, and use special DNA sensing headphones so that if someone other then who paid for it tries to hear it, the music wont play.
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MagMan
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No Comment

No comment because the language I would have to use would be unacceptable.

Juke Box
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Will not make a difference..

I have seen lots of "good" kids that will download copyright material until they are caught. It is the bad ones that realize that their file sharing was enabled that got them caught. They adjust and continue.

Just go to places like download.com that has a link to MP3 and Audio software. Click on the link and there you have it. Limewire and others that are most popular.

The point is that it is too easy and kids will be the first to do it. Most of them on a casual bases. Others become hard core and are most likely to be criminals any way.

I think it it will take a combination of education and commercial support for such an effort to actually work.
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nasadude

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Re: Will not make a difference..

said by Juke Box See Profile :

...

I think it it will take a combination of education and commercial support for such an effort to actually work.
if the content industry thinks shoveling propaganda at teens will substantially change their behaviour, it's just a reaffirmation of how clueless they are.

how's that working out for drugs? abstinence? the previous IP "education" program?

gotta give the content industry A for effort, though.
lordofwhee

join:2007-10-21
Everett, WA

Re: Will not make a difference..

Exactly.

Most kids they try to stuff full of this propaganda will just say "Who gives a shit?" and move on.

How much do you wanna bet there will also be a very heavy emphasis on buying MS stuff?
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
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would be good if it was accurate

I think it would be great for teens to learn and understand copyright, including the history of how it came about.

They should especially learn about some of the greatest "pirates" in history, the early movie studios - when confronted with copyright in the early part of the 20th century, the movie industry moved from New York to the west coast, out of the reach of the law, so they wouldn't be bothered by that pesky copyright thing. They could also learn how micky mouse infringed on steamboat willie and other such wonderful historical nuggets. The content industry now certainly doesn't want people acting like they did back then.

that being said, I sure as hell wouldn't trust Micro$oft to convey an accurate picture of copyright law and history.
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19

Re: would be good if it was accurate

said by nasadude See Profile :

I think it would be great for teens to learn and understand copyright, including the history of how it came about.

They should especially learn about some of the greatest "pirates" in history, the early movie studios - when confronted with copyright in the early part of the 20th century, the movie industry moved from New York to the west coast, out of the reach of the law, so they wouldn't be bothered by that pesky copyright thing. They could also learn how micky mouse infringed on steamboat willie and other such wonderful historical nuggets. The content industry now certainly doesn't want people acting like they did back then.

that being said, I sure as hell wouldn't trust Micro$oft to convey an accurate picture of copyright law and history.
Five stars for this post. That is precisely what the megacorps conveniently overlook in their attempts to propagandize education with teh official message.

Rickez
Goinginsane

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Re: would be good if it was accurate

ditto.

clangbird

@swbell.net
maybe microsoft could also educate everyone on its own history and how they really "created" msdos. i guess piracy was ok back then because microsoft didn't understand intellectual property rights.
Kearnstd
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yea but the corps would gloss over how they kept buying copyright law extensions from the government to protect their bottom line.
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Thespis

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said by nasadude See Profile :

They could also learn how micky mouse infringed on steamboat willie and other such wonderful historical nuggets.
Nice post, but Steamboat Willie was the third Mickey Mouse cartoon. How could Disney infringe on its own copyright?
There were some things in the film that parodied a Buster Keaton film called Steamboat Bill, but no copyright infringment.

LaZ3R
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More like teens are super smart and saving teh earth

These teens know very damn well it's illegal, however, KNOW how difficult it is at the moment for them to get in trouble.

The ONLY way this would stop for teens was if the RIAA actually accomplished anything in their meaningless years of existence so far.

Furthermore, Downloading isn't illegal in Canada yet, only uploading the content is, and therefore, teenagers may download as much as they'd like
--
Life is a game of blackjack. You keep playing until you bust.

EPS

@verizon.net

Backfire?

Hm, you know, this could easily go against what they're thinking- alright, people who do use the programs may go "eek, better disable uploading", but then you have other people say "Wow, I can get all that stuff online for free? Awesome!"

DownTheShore
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Why Doesn't Microsoft...

...fund some mandatory art and music classes instead, in school systems that have eliminated them, to give the kids a better understanding of what creating and owning an artistic or musical work actually feels like? THEN have a dialog about ownership and P2P sharing. A lesson is always better learned when you put yourself in another person's shoes.

If they don't understand why they should care, having a speaker come to the school, or pamphlets handed out isn't going to do a thing.

We're all products of our culture and we all enjoy getting something for nothing. How many people go to the all-you-can-eat buffets and make sure they take home a "doggie" bag filled with even more food? How many of you have snuck into a concert or sports game without paying? Or gotten something that has "fallen off a truck"? If the cashier in a store gives us the wrong change, how many actually return it? If a friend gives us a CD or DVD they've copied, how many refuse it or ask if the music/movie was obtained via P2P?
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fonzbear2000
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Saint Paul, MN

FU*K the RIAA!!!

My 15 year old sister knows VERY well it's illegal and she still downloads! Same with me! FU*K the greedy RIAA!!!
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Chuckles
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Re: FU*K the RIAA!!!

Wow that would suck if you got caught and they showed this post in court.
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fonzbear2000
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Re: FU*K the RIAA!!!

said by Chuckles See Profile :

Wow that would suck if you got caught and they showed this post in court.
Well, I only download and don't share, but ya, that would suck!
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Work

@charter.com

Re: FU*K the RIAA!!!

i have an idea. how about we send the artists who create the music we "steal" the amount they get from the RIAA or their label per song on a CD?

that way, the artist gets paid for their work, the RIAA gets starved, and we all win?

pity that wouldn't work, oh wait, it did. lets look at Harvey Danger's Wine Women and Song...Radiohead's In Rainbows, or any of the other direct to audience released albums.

's a pity that some good artists (i know. most of the US artists right now are crap. flame away, i'm wearing my asbestos underwear) are still stuck in contracts...but hopefully they will realize that selling their albums over the internet at a more reasonable price to the audience directly is the way to go for audio distribution...dunno about movies tho. especially with this bandwith cap ongoing discussion.

TK Junk Mail
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edit:
February 13th, @06:24PM

Do corporations belong in the classroom?

»Microsoft: Teens Ain't Too Bright About Piracy
Do corporations belong in the classroom?
As much as the left wing members of the teachers unions do. Much of the problem with today's youth is the propaganda they absorb from the left wing in the classroom over 12 to 16 years. We need more corporate involvement in the classroom and not less.

See 13 replies to this post

Eddyisgreat
Premium
join:2003-01-21
Seattle, WA
clubs:

St00pid Corporations

People dont do it because they think its legal, people do it cuz its FUN!!!

Instant Gratification! Tweens Love it!

Make it less fun, and they won't do it

RainWind

join:2000-10-20
Van Wert, OH
·Embarq

Maybe if we could get our music legally at a fair price...

I switched from yahoo music to my ISP's music service. That sucked hard, and when I went to switch back to yahoo it put me on the annual billing. I didn't want that, so I e-mailed them and asked to be put on the old monthly billing system. I was informed they've done away with that.

How do they expect to stop piracy if they don't give me a reasonably priced service to obtain my music legally? If they want to stop piracy they need to provide an alternative. Fast downloads to all the music you want for $10/mo would be good for many people.

However, when you run into issues where you can't find the one song you want, or that one song is purchase only... that's when people decide that instead of paying a monthly fee for a shitty service they might as well get what they want for free. They need a service that costs between $10 and $15 per month that has about every song you could ever want with fast downloads and the ability to load it onto just about any MP3 player.

The cost of 1 cd per month is a fair price to pay for such a service as long as you can download as much as you want and it works with all MP3 players. And maybe burn it onto CDs for those of us who drive 40 minutes to work and don't get any decent radio stations so listen to MP3 CDs. People want music, and will get it illegaly if they're not offered a reasonable legal source.

Kiwi
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USA

Wow

Almost no of the wall posts, readable even and makes sense!
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gaforces
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edit:
February 14th, @12:23AM

Here come the Leeches again ...

I pay for my media, keep your stinkin hooves off my internet connection, and out of my computer.

They can't handle their own piracy problem's so they foist it on everyone else to transfer the responsibility onto us to keep their failed and outdated business model around.

Do they get immunity for false positives too? Oh and everyone can welcome their new Copyright Responsibility Fee to go along with their loss of privacy.

Do not let the wolves guard the chicken coop.
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Who of many good things have had your fill even to surfeit,
With what is moderate nourish your mighty desire; for neither will
We yield, nor shall you have all else as you wish.’
Solon

MysticGogeta
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As a Teenager

If I told someone around my age (I'm 18) "Hey smoking pot is illegal" they would look at me like I'm a F***ing idiot. Why would this be any different?
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
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West Chester, PA

Re: As a Teenager

It's not, this is more stupid BS. Kids LIE. You have a poll or adult asking them if they knew something they were doing is ILLEGAL and you expect them to tell the truth?

MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
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Re: As a Teenager

I don't know if they would expect them to care either. Telling them its illegal will probably and will make them do it more.
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Dreadwing
Mark for moderation
Premium
join:2005-02-28
irc

Not worth it.

It's not Piracy if the content is not even worth purchasing.
--
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XknightHawkX

join:2003-02-13
Morton, IL
clubs:

digital age

quote:
Microsoft has enlisted Topics Education, a developer of custom curricula, to help launch the pilot of a broad-based curriculum for middle school and high school educators titled “Intellectual Property Rights Education.” The curriculum is focused on preparing students for the digital age
Students already know the digital age. It's the RIAA and MPAA that don't know anything about the digital age.
mikenolan7
Premium
join:2005-06-07
Torrance, CA

Corporations Teaching Morality

Ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha. Ha. Maybe they'll let Kenneth L from Endrun out to speak to our kids. Or whoever comes in could peddle them a few sub-prime mortgages. Daddy, daddy, we just refinanced! Maybe we should have Bill M$ teach Phys Ed too.

jslik
That just happened
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Re: Corporations Teaching Morality

said by mikenolan7 See Profile :

Maybe they'll let Kenneth L from Endrun out to speak to our kids.
Considering he's been dead since 2006, that would be interesting...
--
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mikenolan7
Premium
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Torrance, CA

Re: Corporations Teaching Morality

Sorry, I haven't been keeping up with "The Lifestyles of the Rich and Incarcerated".
vasta

join:2003-04-07
Orlando, FL


edit:
February 13th, @07:58PM

when i was a teen, i knew smoking marijuana was illegal but still i smoked it
i also knew smoking cigs when i was 16 was illegal but again, i still did it
the same with alcohol
i knew stealing was illegal but i did it anyway

i did all of those things more because they were illegal

i know in my early 20's that downloading certain things is illegal but i still download things

its just the way i rolled and roll
RogerADSL

join:2004-12-10
Lawrenceville, GA

Re: Corporations Teaching Morality

then you are a thug
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast

Copyright Control Organizations know the power of confusion.

First of all I believe performers and composers should be compensated for their work. Unfortunately the copyright rules are so complex that only a Philadelphia Lawyer can understand them. How do you expect kids to understand the rules. Furthermore most kids have no income and must depend on hand outs from their parents to purchase recorded music. The music industry can be compared to drug pushers that get their customers hooked and then raise the price of their product. Remember in 1995, ASCAP decided to shake down the Girl Scouts of America for singing copyrighted songs around their campfires. If the Copyright control organizations want to stop piracy they should make their product affordable to their customer base and stop acting like a goon squad. See this link regarding the Girl Scouts of America shakedown: »query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h···wanted=1