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 |  |   major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Mission Viejo, CA clubs:
edit: February 13th, @08:46PM
| Re: They're plenty bright Two words for this poll: OH PLEASE.
A total of 501 10th grade students were interviewed for this poll. 501 out of HOW many gajillions of people download -in the **AAs estimation- or is something like $100 gajillion dollars they're "losing" to "pirates." I keep mixing the two up.
In other news, I conducted my own poll and found that 100% of corporate executives thought that it was OK to buy off a politician to get legislation passed in their industry's favor and in an additional poll, another 100% of *AAs executives had absolutely no idea what fair rights use was. -- The Toll
Let's Go Flyers!
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 |  |  |  |   GlobalMind Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy Premium join:2001-10-29 Hollywood, FL
| Re: They're plenty bright said by Skeedatl :In looking at the poll I'd vote the same way. Sure looks like if I own the CD, I could make a personal copy under the fair use provision as many times as I need one. The poll makes no mention of what those copies are used for of if they imply giving it away (piracy). Yea this poll sucks on ice.
Fact is that as you say there is no mention of the use of the ripped copy, and honestly there is no violation of copyright in ripping the cd 100x for your own personal use.
This poll might or might not have been dictated by the RIAA but whomever created it is an idiot.
What I have been saying for awhile now is that they're beginning to make statements which call into question the very notion of ripping a CD you purchase for your own use.
They aren't saying it is "illegal" flat out yet, but as I see it they're staging things in such a way to almost make that argument. -- TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. Ralph Waldo Emerson
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 |  |  |  |  |   major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Mission Viejo, CA clubs:
| Re: They're plenty bright said by GlobalMind :What I have been saying for awhile now is that they're beginning to make statements which call into question the very notion of ripping a CD you purchase for your own use. They aren't saying it is "illegal" flat out yet, but as I see it they're staging things in such a way to almost make that argument. Actually, the brilliant minds at the RIAA have already said as much, but then typically backpedaled when they were collectively laughed outta the blogosphere. -- The Toll
Let's Go Flyers!
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   GlobalMind Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy Premium join:2001-10-29 Hollywood, FL | Re: They're plenty bright Ahh, good call. Forgot that one.
I was actually referring to the recent case where initially it looked like they were suing over the guy ripping the CD, but in fact it was for his distribution of it. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   Neyland85
join:2003-02-04 North Augusta, SC
·AT&T Southeast
edit: February 14th, @08:45AM
| Actually I *believe* there is. Most of the fair use doctrine established by the courts deals directly with ANALOG home recording technology, the use for commentary, research, and education. Making a copy for yourself crosses into the copyright holders duplication section of the law which gives the copyright holder rights of duplication. By purchasing the 'performance' the copyright holder has not transfered that right of duplication to you.
Many of the laws that deal with copyright seem to be more lax on analog technology and virtually strips the consumer of any protection on digital media. In fact, the way I read it, I'm surprised that DVRs are even legal.
I wrote my congressman about the need for true copyright reform and a 'consumer' bill of rights that define an owner's rights after purchasing a work. He replied with some 2006 brief to congress on the current state of copyright law.
Again, this is how I read what the brief (~30 pages). I'm not a lawyer. What struck me was, Ok you've looked out for the copyright holder... where have you given any rights to the consumer? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   GlobalMind Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy Premium join:2001-10-29 Hollywood, FL
| Re: They're plenty bright said by Neyland85 :Actually I *believe* there is. Most of the fair use doctrine established by the courts deals directly with ANALOG home recording technology, the use for commentary, research, and education. Making a copy for yourself crosses into the copyright holders duplication section of the law which gives the copyright holder rights of duplication. By purchasing the 'performance' the copyright holder has not transfered that right of duplication to you. Many of the laws that deal with copyright seem to be more lax on analog technology and virtually strips the consumer of any protection on digital media. In fact, the way I read it, I'm surprised that DVRs are even legal. Well the Sony Betamax case »www.museum.tv/archives/etv/B/htm···case.htm created the foundation for extending home video recording of TV programming to time-shift the program.
The media folks have also acknowledged - see major marco's post - that copying for your own use is OK (after they said it wasn't). Personally I think the intent to distribute is really the kicker in the whole thing.
What they're annoyed with is that they don't make money off the copyright when songs are uploaded or CDs copied and then distributed.
k. -- TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. Ralph Waldo Emerson
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 |  |  |   Feb148
@frognet.net
| Re: Own it today! That's a good point.
The ad doesn't say "own the dvd" but "own it on DVD" -- heh, so I guess it's Sony's fault we have an expectation of 'owning' the movie.
Kewl, I may go own some more movies today.  | |
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 |  |   joako Premium join:2000-09-07 Gainesville, FL edit: February 13th, @11:09PM
| What crap is that you need to REGISTER to take a poll?
/edit: Ended up registering with username FCKGWRHQQ2
-- 09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0 | |
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 |  |  |  jester121
join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL | Re: They're plenty bright Damn pirates! hehe
(is it a bad sign if I recognize that code?) | |
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 |  |  |  |   joako Premium join:2000-09-07 Gainesville, FL | Re: They're plenty bright It's only a bad sign if you know of "vbs net cn"
LOL Windows anti-piracy. -- 09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0 | |
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 |   mustang03282
join:2003-01-10 Bridgeton, NJ clubs:
| said by Skeedatl :"They" (a generic they) just have no morals and don't give a sh!t about other people's property, physical or virtual. To these individuals, everything should be free. You can thank their idiot parents for this excellent set of values. Unfortunately, the MPAA and RIAA criminal racketeers are no better. why is everyone so quick to blame the children. The children have done nothing wrong there is nothing in there generation worth pirateing blame the parents at least we had good music to copy | |
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 |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ | well the ISPs are also partly to blame "download your favorite music 100x faster then dialup" -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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 |   Proud Pirate
@rr.com
| Yeah!
There IS no piracy. Sharing is NOT stealing. Never has been, never will. What IS illegal is the gov, ms, you name it, slapping people with fines for creating copies of things they buy.
You can do whatever you want with what you buy. Secondly, the fact that they are lying to you when you buy it, & treating it like a rental... It is called truth in advertising...
FALSE ADVERTISING! They need to be sued 7 brought down. So what if someone creates a billion copies? If they bought it, they own it!
You can't "own" "intellectual property" besides! If you could, no-one would be able to think the same thought twice.
Riaa, mpaa, whoever, if you are reading this, rot in hell, I DON'T CARE! | |
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 |  xirian Premium join:2003-01-26 Beacon, NY | Re: New feature for "Patch Tuesday" nah it should sit in the system tray and pop up every once in a while to alert you your music might be stolen. | |
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 |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ
| said by TK Junk Mail :Microsoft's solution is to head to the classrooms to "educate" the children They just have to add a new feature to their monthly Patch Tuesday process thru "Windows Update". A short monthly video educating people on copyright infringement that must be played before the rest of the updates can be applied. naw they will just make us have to Activate our music, and use special DNA sensing headphones so that if someone other then who paid for it tries to hear it, the music wont play. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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  MagMan Life is simpler when you tell the truth. Premium join:2003-10-01 Westlake, OH | No Comment No comment because the language I would have to use would be unacceptable. | |
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 |  nasadude
join:2001-10-05 Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Will not make a difference.. said by Juke Box :... I think it it will take a combination of education and commercial support for such an effort to actually work. if the content industry thinks shoveling propaganda at teens will substantially change their behaviour, it's just a reaffirmation of how clueless they are.
how's that working out for drugs? abstinence? the previous IP "education" program?
gotta give the content industry A for effort, though. | |
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 |  |  lordofwhee
join:2007-10-21 Everett, WA | Re: Will not make a difference.. Exactly.
Most kids they try to stuff full of this propaganda will just say "Who gives a shit?" and move on.
How much do you wanna bet there will also be a very heavy emphasis on buying MS stuff? | |
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 nasadude
join:2001-10-05 Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| would be good if it was accurate I think it would be great for teens to learn and understand copyright, including the history of how it came about.
They should especially learn about some of the greatest "pirates" in history, the early movie studios - when confronted with copyright in the early part of the 20th century, the movie industry moved from New York to the west coast, out of the reach of the law, so they wouldn't be bothered by that pesky copyright thing. They could also learn how micky mouse infringed on steamboat willie and other such wonderful historical nuggets. The content industry now certainly doesn't want people acting like they did back then.
that being said, I sure as hell wouldn't trust Micro$oft to convey an accurate picture of copyright law and history. | |
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 |  SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| Re: would be good if it was accurate said by nasadude :I think it would be great for teens to learn and understand copyright, including the history of how it came about. They should especially learn about some of the greatest "pirates" in history, the early movie studios - when confronted with copyright in the early part of the 20th century, the movie industry moved from New York to the west coast, out of the reach of the law, so they wouldn't be bothered by that pesky copyright thing. They could also learn how micky mouse infringed on steamboat willie and other such wonderful historical nuggets. The content industry now certainly doesn't want people acting like they did back then. that being said, I sure as hell wouldn't trust Micro$oft to convey an accurate picture of copyright law and history. Five stars for this post. That is precisely what the megacorps conveniently overlook in their attempts to propagandize education with teh official message. | |
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 |  |   Rickez Goinginsane
join:2000-09-02 Three Rivers, MA | Re: would be good if it was accurate ditto. | |
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 |  |   clangbird
@swbell.net | maybe microsoft could also educate everyone on its own history and how they really "created" msdos. i guess piracy was ok back then because microsoft didn't understand intellectual property rights. | |
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 |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ | yea but the corps would gloss over how they kept buying copyright law extensions from the government to protect their bottom line. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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 |  Thespis
join:2004-08-03 Keller, TX
·Verizon FIOS
| said by nasadude : They could also learn how micky mouse infringed on steamboat willie and other such wonderful historical nuggets. Nice post, but Steamboat Willie was the third Mickey Mouse cartoon. How could Disney infringe on its own copyright? There were some things in the film that parodied a Buster Keaton film called Steamboat Bill, but no copyright infringment. | |
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  EPS
@verizon.net | Backfire? Hm, you know, this could easily go against what they're thinking- alright, people who do use the programs may go "eek, better disable uploading", but then you have other people say "Wow, I can get all that stuff online for free? Awesome!" | |
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  DownTheShore Tree and Dragon Premium join:2003-12-02 Edison, NJ clubs:
| Why Doesn't Microsoft... ...fund some mandatory art and music classes instead, in school systems that have eliminated them, to give the kids a better understanding of what creating and owning an artistic or musical work actually feels like? THEN have a dialog about ownership and P2P sharing. A lesson is always better learned when you put yourself in another person's shoes.
If they don't understand why they should care, having a speaker come to the school, or pamphlets handed out isn't going to do a thing.
We're all products of our culture and we all enjoy getting something for nothing. How many people go to the all-you-can-eat buffets and make sure they take home a "doggie" bag filled with even more food? How many of you have snuck into a concert or sports game without paying? Or gotten something that has "fallen off a truck"? If the cashier in a store gives us the wrong change, how many actually return it? If a friend gives us a CD or DVD they've copied, how many refuse it or ask if the music/movie was obtained via P2P? -- Life is simply one damned thing after another. | |
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  fonzbear2000 Premium join:2005-08-09 Saint Paul, MN | FU*K the RIAA!!! My 15 year old sister knows VERY well it's illegal and she still downloads! Same with me! FU*K the greedy RIAA!!! -- i wish qwest would die! i want FIOS! | |
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 |   Chuckles Premium join:2006-03-04 Saint Paul, MN | Re: FU*K the RIAA!!! Wow that would suck if you got caught and they showed this post in court. -- kustomerservice.net | |
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 |  |   fonzbear2000 Premium join:2005-08-09 Saint Paul, MN
·Comcast
| Re: FU*K the RIAA!!! said by Chuckles :Wow that would suck if you got caught and they showed this post in court. Well, I only download and don't share, but ya, that would suck! -- i wish qwest would die! i want FIOS! | |
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 |  |  |   Work
@charter.com
| Re: FU*K the RIAA!!! i have an idea. how about we send the artists who create the music we "steal" the amount they get from the RIAA or their label per song on a CD?
that way, the artist gets paid for their work, the RIAA gets starved, and we all win?
pity that wouldn't work, oh wait, it did. lets look at Harvey Danger's Wine Women and Song...Radiohead's In Rainbows, or any of the other direct to audience released albums.
's a pity that some good artists (i know. most of the US artists right now are crap. flame away, i'm wearing my asbestos underwear) are still stuck in contracts...but hopefully they will realize that selling their albums over the internet at a more reasonable price to the audience directly is the way to go for audio distribution...dunno about movies tho. especially with this bandwith cap ongoing discussion. | |
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 |  See 13 replies to this post |
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  Eddyisgreat Premium join:2003-01-21 Seattle, WA clubs: | St00pid Corporations People dont do it because they think its legal, people do it cuz its FUN!!!
Instant Gratification! Tweens Love it!
Make it less fun, and they won't do it | |
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  RainWind
join:2000-10-20 Van Wert, OH
·Embarq
| Maybe if we could get our music legally at a fair price... I switched from yahoo music to my ISP's music service. That sucked hard, and when I went to switch back to yahoo it put me on the annual billing. I didn't want that, so I e-mailed them and asked to be put on the old monthly billing system. I was informed they've done away with that.
How do they expect to stop piracy if they don't give me a reasonably priced service to obtain my music legally? If they want to stop piracy they need to provide an alternative. Fast downloads to all the music you want for $10/mo would be good for many people.
However, when you run into issues where you can't find the one song you want, or that one song is purchase only... that's when people decide that instead of paying a monthly fee for a shitty service they might as well get what they want for free. They need a service that costs between $10 and $15 per month that has about every song you could ever want with fast downloads and the ability to load it onto just about any MP3 player.
The cost of 1 cd per month is a fair price to pay for such a service as long as you can download as much as you want and it works with all MP3 players. And maybe burn it onto CDs for those of us who drive 40 minutes to work and don't get any decent radio stations so listen to MP3 CDs. People want music, and will get it illegaly if they're not offered a reasonable legal source. | |
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  Kiwi Premium join:2003-05-26 USA | Wow Almost no of the wall posts, readable even and makes sense! -- 384 BC. | |
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  gaforces United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07 Santa Cruz, CA
·Cruzio Internet
edit: February 14th, @12:23AM
| Here come the Leeches again ... I pay for my media, keep your stinkin hooves off my internet connection, and out of my computer.
They can't handle their own piracy problem's so they foist it on everyone else to transfer the responsibility onto us to keep their failed and outdated business model around.
Do they get immunity for false positives too? Oh and everyone can welcome their new Copyright Responsibility Fee to go along with their loss of privacy.
Do not let the wolves guard the chicken coop. -- Do ye, quieting in your bosoms your strong hearts, Who of many good things have had your fill even to surfeit, With what is moderate nourish your mighty desire; for neither will We yield, nor shall you have all else as you wish. Solon | |
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 |   Qumahlin Never Enough Time Premium,MVM join:2001-10-05 West Chester, PA | Re: As a Teenager It's not, this is more stupid BS. Kids LIE. You have a poll or adult asking them if they knew something they were doing is ILLEGAL and you expect them to tell the truth? | |
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 |  |   MysticGogeta The Robot Devil Premium join:2005-03-14 League City, TX clubs: | Re: As a Teenager I don't know if they would expect them to care either. Telling them its illegal will probably and will make them do it more. -- Team Discovery-Join the fight | |
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  Dreadwing Mark for moderation Premium join:2005-02-28 irc | Not worth it. It's not Piracy if the content is not even worth purchasing. -- 48-27 | |
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 XknightHawkX
join:2003-02-13 Morton, IL clubs:
| digital age quote: Microsoft has enlisted Topics Education, a developer of custom curricula, to help launch the pilot of a broad-based curriculum for middle school and high school educators titled Intellectual Property Rights Education. The curriculum is focused on preparing students for the digital age
Students already know the digital age. It's the RIAA and MPAA that don't know anything about the digital age. | |
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 mikenolan7 Premium join:2005-06-07 Torrance, CA | Corporations Teaching Morality Ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha. Ha. Maybe they'll let Kenneth L from Endrun out to speak to our kids. Or whoever comes in could peddle them a few sub-prime mortgages. Daddy, daddy, we just refinanced! Maybe we should have Bill M$ teach Phys Ed too. | |
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 |   jslik That just happened Premium join:2006-03-17 clubs:
| Re: Corporations Teaching Morality said by mikenolan7 :Maybe they'll let Kenneth L from Endrun out to speak to our kids. Considering he's been dead since 2006, that would be interesting...  -- If they told you wolverines would make good house pets, would you believe them? -"Planes, Trains & Automobiles" | |
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 |  |  mikenolan7 Premium join:2005-06-07 Torrance, CA | Re: Corporations Teaching Morality Sorry, I haven't been keeping up with "The Lifestyles of the Rich and Incarcerated".  | |
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 |  vasta
join:2003-04-07 Orlando, FL
edit: February 13th, @07:58PM
| when i was a teen, i knew smoking marijuana was illegal but still i smoked it i also knew smoking cigs when i was 16 was illegal but again, i still did it the same with alcohol i knew stealing was illegal but i did it anyway
i did all of those things more because they were illegal
i know in my early 20's that downloading certain things is illegal but i still download things
its just the way i rolled and roll | |
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 |  |  RogerADSL
join:2004-12-10 Lawrenceville, GA | Re: Corporations Teaching Morality then you are a thug | |
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 Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29 Eustis, FL
·Comcast
| Copyright Control Organizations know the power of confusion. First of all I believe performers and composers should be compensated for their work. Unfortunately the copyright rules are so complex that only a Philadelphia Lawyer can understand them. How do you expect kids to understand the rules. Furthermore most kids have no income and must depend on hand outs from their parents to purchase recorded music. The music industry can be compared to drug pushers that get their customers hooked and then raise the price of their product. Remember in 1995, ASCAP decided to shake down the Girl Scouts of America for singing copyrighted songs around their campfires. If the Copyright control organizations want to stop piracy they should make their product affordable to their customer base and stop acting like a goon squad. See this link regarding the Girl Scouts of America shakedown: »query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h···wanted=1 | |
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