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Major Carriers, Google Create Voluntary Neutrality Organization
Policy dog and pony show or meaningful engineering forum?

A group of companies including Verizon, Comcast, AT&T, Google, Intel, Cisco and Time Warner Cable have created what they're calling the Broadband Internet Technical Advisory Group (BITAG or TAG). According to the announcement, the group was formed to bring together engineers and technical experts to "develop consensus on broadband network management practices." NCTA and the cable industry's primary lobbying and policy pitchman Kyle McSlarrow puts it this way over at the National Cable & Telecommunications Association blog:

quote:
If there is any one common theme that has arisen from the years-long policy debate surrounding network neutrality, reasonable network management and preserving an open Internet experience – it’s that there is no simple solution and the entire Internet ecosystem must be engaged with a common purpose to continue providing consumers with a great Internet experience.

That is why today’s announcement of the formation of a Broadband Internet Technical Advisory Group (BITAG) is such encouraging news. The BITAG starts off with some of the leading broadband providers, high-tech companies and Internet content providers, and will provide an inter-industry forum to allow technical and engineering experts to discuss technical issues and develop best practices related to matters that affect the consumer broadband experience.


With a solid understanding of the tactics of companies like Verizon, AT&T and Comcast -- it's no stretch to conclude the companies involved are eager to create a panel of selective industry experts who'll arrive at a "consensus" for what constitutes acceptable network behavior -- with the over-arching goal being to allow the industry to self-regulate. Most of the forum's participants obviously believe that everything government touches turns to fertilizer, and as with privacy rules -- these companies are eager to construct their own, rather weak network neutrality rules of the road (without the pesky input of consumer advocates or the public). Though in a blog post, Google insists this isn't really the goal:
quote:
To be clear, the BITAG is still very much a work in progress, and we welcome the involvement of other interested entities, especially those representing the Internet user community. Further, the purpose of the BITAG is not to replace the oversight and enforcement authority of the FCC or any other government body. Rather, we hope the BITAG can bring together some of the smartest technical minds in this space to provide some useful guidance to policymakers and Internet stakeholders alike.
Given the group is little more than a press release and a smile at this point, it's hard to tell if the group is going to be a useful engineering forum -- or a policy dog and pony show aimed at fighting off meaningful network neutrality rules (perhaps both). Broadband providers have a long, long history of creating groups that offer the illusion of consensus with a focus on science -- but are little more than puppet shows, operated primarily by a few players, where consumer welfare and objective science take backseats to revenue protection and deregulatory rhetoric.

Stay tuned on this one. BITAG's value as an advisory group will be dependent on a number of as-yet-undecided factors -- including transparency, who's allowed to join the group -- and how consensus is reached.
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OldschoolDSL
Premium Member
join:2006-02-23
Indian Orchard, MA

OldschoolDSL

Premium Member

We WITHOUT the people....

So group of companies have decided to "unite" to better decide what is best for "us" without us really have any say......

Big Business gone wild (gone wrong).
tdouglas22
join:2001-09-25
Memphis, TN

tdouglas22

Member

Re: We WITHOUT the people....

said by OldschoolDSL:

So group of companies have decided to "unite" to better decide what is best for "us" without us really have any say......

Big Business gone wild (gone wrong).
The article says that Google is also looking for internet users to join. Don't just sit on the sideline. Get in the game.

OldschoolDSL
Premium Member
join:2006-02-23
Indian Orchard, MA

OldschoolDSL

Premium Member

Re: We WITHOUT the people....

said by tdouglas22:

said by OldschoolDSL:

So group of companies have decided to "unite" to better decide what is best for "us" without us really have any say......

Big Business gone wild (gone wrong).
The article says that Google is also looking for internet users to join. Don't just sit on the sideline. Get in the game.
If you say come join me.... But offer no way for me to join... Can I really be a member of the team??!

fjpoblam
@covad.net

fjpoblam to tdouglas22

Anon

to tdouglas22
If my experience with GOOG Groups is any guide, a response from GOOG to any input from me would be on the order of, "Thanks for pointing that out. We'll get back to you."

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
MVM
join:2008-01-16
Gilbert, AZ

tubbynet to OldschoolDSL

MVM

to OldschoolDSL
said by OldschoolDSL:

So group of companies have decided to "unite" to better decide what is best for "us" without us really have any say......

Big Business gone wild (gone wrong).
but...but...but...google is involved. so it must be for the people right??! please someone tell me *google* is looking out for the people...!



google, like every other company is in it to promote their own self-interests. the only reason they promote and open environment is because it allows them to stream their content with their ads inside so it makes them money. regardless of what anyone tries to spin -- google's motives are no different than any other company's -- they just happen to have found a way to make money off of aligning with the consumer.

q.

OldschoolDSL
Premium Member
join:2006-02-23
Indian Orchard, MA

OldschoolDSL

Premium Member

Re: We WITHOUT the people....

Don't recall defending Google here.....

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
MVM
join:2008-01-16
Gilbert, AZ

tubbynet

MVM

Re: We WITHOUT the people....

said by OldschoolDSL:

Don't recall defending Google here.....
no. you weren't -- and i should have made that clearer. however, your post dovetailed (at least i thought it did at the time) into a rant before the google fan-boys could pipe in. it was more of a support to your argument than a complaint.

my apologies. clarity before noon isn't one of my strong points.

q.
33358088 (banned)
join:2008-09-23

33358088 (banned) to tubbynet

Member

to tubbynet
said by tubbynet:

said by OldschoolDSL:

So group of companies have decided to "unite" to better decide what is best for "us" without us really have any say......

Big Business gone wild (gone wrong).
but...but...but...google is involved. so it must be for the people right??! please someone tell me *google* is looking out for the people...!



google, like every other company is in it to promote their own self-interests. the only reason they promote and open environment is because it allows them to stream their content with their ads inside so it makes them money. regardless of what anyone tries to spin -- google's motives are no different than any other company's -- they just happen to have found a way to make money off of aligning with the consumer.

q.
google the secret lil fbi cia wave front
HENCE why the Chinese propaganda that all said and done they still have no actual proof other then its now apparently microsofts fault for crappy software
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin to tubbynet

Member

to tubbynet
said by tubbynet:

said by OldschoolDSL:

So group of companies have decided to "unite" to better decide what is best for "us" without us really have any say......

Big Business gone wild (gone wrong).
but...but...but...google is involved. so it must be for the people right??! please someone tell me *google* is looking out for the people...!



google, like every other company is in it to promote their own self-interests. the only reason they promote and open environment is because it allows them to stream their content with their ads inside so it makes them money. regardless of what anyone tries to spin -- google's motives are no different than any other company's -- they just happen to have found a way to make money off of aligning with the consumer.

q.
Do you think it's a coincidence they have yet to get into a business which profits by going against the consumer? The founders of the company still have a majority stake of the voting shares. They got to where they were by being visionaries. I highly, highly doubt they'll devolve into your typical greedy scumbag corporate CEO.

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
MVM
join:2008-01-16
Gilbert, AZ

tubbynet

MVM

Re: We WITHOUT the people....

said by sonicmerlin:

They got to where they were by being visionaries. I highly, highly doubt they'll devolve into your typical greedy scumbag corporate CEO.
the same thing was said about bill gates, steve jobs, et al.
it will happen. everyone has their price. of course, i'm a pretty cynical guy -- i choose not to drink the google kool-aid.

q.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin

Member

Re: We WITHOUT the people....

said by tubbynet:

said by sonicmerlin:

They got to where they were by being visionaries. I highly, highly doubt they'll devolve into your typical greedy scumbag corporate CEO.
the same thing was said about bill gates, steve jobs, et al.
it will happen. everyone has their price. of course, i'm a pretty cynical guy -- i choose not to drink the google kool-aid.

q.
That's really not true at all. Steve Jobs was wild and crazy, so much so that he was fired from his own company. Bill Gates was always crafty. The both of them stole from each other multiple times. More than anything else, they were/are ruthless/intelligent businessmen.

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
MVM
join:2008-01-16
Gilbert, AZ

tubbynet

MVM

Re: We WITHOUT the people....

said by sonicmerlin:

More than anything else, they were/are ruthless/intelligent businessmen.
and some would say thats what google execs are -- great businessmen. in fact, isn't that why you've called them visionaries -- because they can align themselves with the consumer and make money. doesn't that make them "great businessmen"?
i use google services. i have their voice account, their email. i use wave, buzz, and docs. google chat is also my friend. i don't boycott their services because of what they are doing. what i am doing is offering some balance to the seemingly endless parade of people who think google has their best interests at heart. i'm simply being that young, cynical pr!ck that repeatedly states that google *only* is doing this because they have found a way to make money or protect their interests. if their corporate policy changes such that they can make *more* money without aligning with consumers, they'll change in a heartbeat. i'm sorry. thats business. google's in it for google -- no one else. they just have found a way to make it seem like they are fighting for the everyman...

i'm not asking you to try and change your beliefs. i understand that your beliefs are as much set in stone as mine (read: you *aren't* changing how i feel). however, i feel the need (almost compelled) to post my cynical views on google whenever they seem to be fighting for the common person. if it makes you feel any better, this is no different than someone mentioning caps whenever comcast is mentioned, calling people "fanb0iZ" whenever someone supports apple, or yelling "FIRST" whenever a new youtube video is posted.

q.
Parellel
join:2009-08-06
London, ON

1 recommendation

Parellel to sonicmerlin

Member

to sonicmerlin
Which is exactly why Mr. Gates has given so much to charity and has left a good portion of his estate to charity... how ruthless of him!

Google is going through that akward Monopoly stage that Microsoft went through a while back, the recent wifi blunder will be the first of MANY mistakes they're going to make while they try to find their place (regardless what you think about people having unsecured networks, governments wouldn't be jumping on this if they didn't feel there wasn't legal grounds to do so). I feel that Google can't be trusted, they're putting their hands in everybodys cookie jar and are growing to fast, and no single company should be allowed to have the kind of power that google does.

Jim Kirk
Premium Member
join:2005-12-09
49985

Jim Kirk

Premium Member

Re: We WITHOUT the people....

More like trying to make up for the evils of the past.

asdfdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net

asdfdfdfdfdf to tubbynet

Anon

to tubbynet
"they just happen to have found a way to make money off of aligning with the consumer."

Surely it is a significant difference, for me as a consumer, whether a company makes money by aligning itself with my interests or whether it makes money by constantly trying to screw over my interests.

I don't mind companies making money if they do it without pissing on a lot of other people in the process. This strikes me as a fundamental difference between a just society and an unjust society.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to OldschoolDSL

Premium Member

to OldschoolDSL
of course since the ISPs are cable companies now including ATT and VZN, Netflix is one of their biggest enemies and i am sure they would love nothing more then to make them pay into a protection racket.

Google and any other company with video sources wants a neutral internet because otherwise they would be hurt when the ISPs decide to QOS them to last rank in line for data movement unless they pay into the protection racket.
33358088 (banned)
join:2008-09-23

33358088 (banned) to OldschoolDSL

Member

to OldschoolDSL
said by OldschoolDSL:

So group of companies have decided to "unite" to better decide what is best for "us" without us really have any say......

Big Business gone wild (gone wrong).
and coming to canada with Minister Tony Clement representing 34% of canadians
gorehound
join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME

gorehound to OldschoolDSL

Member

to OldschoolDSL
I do not trust this group at all.sorry but if no consumers are a part of it then it is more industry krap to me.
tdouglas22
join:2001-09-25
Memphis, TN

tdouglas22

Member

Action is needed

The announcement says that Google is also looking for members of the internet community to join. That means it's time for US to stop talking and start doing. Join up and make our ideas known.

jlivingood
Premium Member
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA

jlivingood

Premium Member

I'm optimistic...

I think this could be a good thing and is much needed. I totally understand the sentiment to put this into action (beyond words) though.

See also »blog.comcast.com/2010/06 ··· oup.html

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList

Premium Member

Re: I'm optimistic...

said by jlivingood:

I think this could be a good thing and is much needed. I totally understand the sentiment to put this into action (beyond words) though.

See also »blog.comcast.com/2010/06 ··· oup.html
of course you do. you work for comcast..

qazwsxedc
@sbcglobal.net

qazwsxedc

Anon

same game diff day

so basically all the private comanies get together and dicate what is works and what does not work. where are consumers in this group? privacy adovacates? etc . . . you know people who represent us.

Just a thought
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Seems like a good thing

Better for the industry to police themselves than for politicians, who tend not to know what they're talking about, to do the same...as long as the industry *does* police themselves.

The nice thing about this is that you've got both interests: cable/telco and content. So there should actually be some balance in everything.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin

Member

Re: Seems like a good thing

said by iansltx:

Better for the industry to police themselves than for politicians, who tend not to know what they're talking about, to do the same...as long as the industry *does* police themselves.

The nice thing about this is that you've got both interests: cable/telco and content. So there should actually be some balance in everything.
What are you talking about? When has any industry ever successfully policed itself? And you are aware the FCC has various technical advisory boards, right? It's not like the lawyers/FCC commissioners just sit on a bench all day and blindly yell "yay!" or "nay!" to various questions.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Seems like a good thing

What keeps the grocery duopoly in check?

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList to sonicmerlin

Premium Member

to sonicmerlin
said by sonicmerlin:

What are you talking about? When has any industry ever successfully policed itself?
some reason I am thinking of BP. oh wait a minute.

Tobester
join:2000-11-14
San Francisco, CA

Tobester

Member

Voluntary Neutrality Organization

Gentleman, that sounds like a fine start.

Now let us codify it into law so violations have consequences.

"Trust, but Verify" --Ronald Reagan

Killa200
Premium Member
join:2005-12-02
TN

1 recommendation

Killa200

Premium Member

Interesting

Hmmm, now if this isn't completely astounding, I don't know what is.

It seems Bitag directly translates into TRAP in Filipino. I think our neighbors in the Philippines are trying to warn us,
fishacura
join:2008-01-25
Phoenixville, PA

fishacura

Member

I implore you....

...PLEASE GO TO THE GEMBA!

Why do the powers that be always think they know best without including the folks at the end of the chain!

Camaro
Question everything
Premium Member
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA

1 recommendation

Camaro

Premium Member

Hmmmm

Sorry but when "voluntary" and making money are on the table,do we all really think anything good will come out of this? all these greedy bastards are doing is pre planning to cut any sort of positive regulation to benefit us at the pass,plain and simple.Once there paid think tanks fudge a bunch of numbers and go walking up the hill and say nothing to look at here.

plk
Premium Member
join:2002-04-20
united state

plk

Premium Member

Bad news

What a joke. All this is is Google selling us out. A back office deal for the big players. I look for a few other big players to jump in the game. All this means is the Bells and Cables will agree to not limit or degrade the big players services.
New start-up's and innovations will be degraded and bought for pennies on the dollar.

Nothing like seeing Google get punked. Fools!