 Dodge Premium join:2002-11-27 clubs:  | Who wrote this snippet? The way this is written makes no sense whatsoever. Lucent was annoyed at Fraunhofer Institute so they sued MS???
Who writes these things? | |
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 |  |   Guru
join:2005-12-01 Canada
| Re: Who wrote this snippet? said by exocet_cm :Re-read it slowly, maybe twice over. It makes sense, just gotta read it and make a time line in your mind. LOL  How did you come up with that method? | |
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 |  |  |  |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02 | Re: Who wrote this snippet? LOLZORS READUN SLOWLY!! LOAL! | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   tacoma Bleeding Dodger Blue Premium join:2001-05-18 Riverside, CA | Re: Who wrote this snippet? I submitted this yesterday, but no love? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   Michieru2 zzz zzz zzz Premium join:2005-01-28 Miami, FL | Re: Who wrote this snippet? God must be on your side if your article does indeed make it on the front page  -- The only limits we have are the one's we set ourselves. | |
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 |   kyramilan
join:2006-11-26 Pensacola, FL
| Lucent owned the patent before Frauhofer got involved. It is quite amazing the breadth of patents Bell Labs and IBM have.
Now, Alcatel could go after everyone else on the MP3 issue, which includes maybe Apple?
This was news yesterday in the NY Times.
"The judgment is part of litigation by Alcatel to enforce claims related to Bell Labs patents. The case was initially brought against Dell and Gateway, which make computers using Microsoft software. Other trials are pending for technology related to speech recognition, user interfaces and video processing." | |
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 |  |  clecssuck
join:2002-01-23 Birmingham, AL
| Re: Who wrote this snippet? It makes me sick that at French company now owns Bell Labs considering all the inventions and patents it is responsible for. They still have contracts with the US military. It's said that a U.S. board will oversee all those contrats but that doesn't make me fell any better. | |
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 |  |  |  |  clecssuck
join:2002-01-23 Birmingham, AL | Re: Who wrote this snippet? I never blamed anybody. I just said it makes me sick. | |
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 |   thender2 Glamour Profession Premium join:2004-05-16 Staten Island, NY | I agree. What does MS have to do with bell labs and fraunhofer?
Thumbs down. | |
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  Guru
join:2005-12-01 Canada | MS will never pay MS will dodge this one with their highly paid lawyers.
Plus, the story seems to have more than meets the eye. | |
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 |  Prentiss
join:2007-02-05 00000
| Re: MS will never pay The good thing here is that while Microsoft is getting sued and is at 70k employees, Google is NOT losing billion dollar lawsuits and is at 10k employees if you go by Yahoo figures. Eventually Google will surpass Microsoft in size AND scope while Microsoft gets hit with 1.2 Billion dollar lawsuits consistently. This wont be the last lawsuit against Microsoft and the dollar amounts will ONLY get higher.
1.2 Billion is only a fraction from Microsoft's cash coffers but its being spent on lawsuits and not for R+D and investments in the firm. | |
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 |  |   fdghdfe
@optonline.net
| Re: MS will never pay Yeah, Google just buys $1.65 billion in worthless internet video companies. How could one search company become so powerful? I mean Yahoo and MSN Live and Ask.com do the same thing. I guess the creative "playing with legos" act paid off. It seems like ever since they went public they have just been buying companies instead of actually producing something themselves. | |
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 |  |  |  Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26 North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: MS will never pay Because they're not a search company, they're THE internet advertising company. They have over 50% market share of internet advertising with very sophisticated targeting software that surpasses any of their competitors capabilities. Their company is worth so much because they grow their revenue by 100% every year. GOOG is worth 1/2 of MSFT. | |
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 |  |   GOLFnSUN Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| said by Prentiss :The good thing here is that while Microsoft is getting sued and is at 70k employees, Google is NOT losing billion dollar lawsuits and is at 10k employees if you go by Yahoo figures. Eventually Google will surpass Microsoft in size AND scope while Microsoft gets hit with 1.2 Billion dollar lawsuits consistently. This wont be the last lawsuit against Microsoft and the dollar amounts will ONLY get higher. 1.2 Billion is only a fraction from Microsoft's cash coffers but its being spent on lawsuits and not for R+D and investments in the firm. And how is that good? Because MS is evil and Google is altruistic. That is a very poor reading of the relative underlying motives of a corporation. Neither is good or evil. And Google is no better or worse than MS in its future goal of making huge profits for the shareholders.
Your Google fanboy attitude is sadly naive. -- -- My BLOG My Web Page | |
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 |  |   Rob In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA Premium join:2001-08-25 Kendall, FL
·Comcast
1 edit | said by Prentiss :The good thing here is that while Microsoft is getting sued and is at 70k employees, Google is NOT losing billion dollar lawsuits and is at 10k employees if you go by Yahoo figures. Eventually Google will surpass Microsoft in size AND scope while Microsoft gets hit with 1.2 Billion dollar lawsuits consistently. This wont be the last lawsuit against Microsoft and the dollar amounts will ONLY get higher. 1.2 Billion is only a fraction from Microsoft's cash coffers but its being spent on lawsuits and not for R+D and investments in the firm. I'm not defending Microsoft, but let's be realistic here. Microsoft has annual revenues of 40+ Billion. Google is around 3.5 billion. Google will never surpass Microsoft in size (employee and revenues).
When Google is split up by the U.S. Government because of anti-trust reasons, then you can say that Google surprassed Microsoft. Until then, Google is just a puppet in this game while investors get rich off their stock. Enjoy it while it lasts. | |
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 |  |  |  hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH | Re: MS will never pay No Google will more likely become part of the RIAA/MPAA or some media company because of the copyright material uploaded to YouTube | |
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 |  |  |  |   Rob In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA Premium join:2001-08-25 Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| Re: MS will never pay said by hottboiinnc :No Google will more likely become part of the RIAA/MPAA or some media company because of the copyright material uploaded to YouTube Yep. -- YourIP.US - It's Your IP .. and more! rr.cx - Personal Site.. coming soon. | |
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 |  |  |  rgillis70 Premium join:2002-12-30 Herndon, VA | I believe the statement was that this is 6 weeks of cash flow. Not a big deal by any means to them. | |
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 |  |   vpoko Premium join:2003-07-03 Jamaica Plain, MA
| Re: MS will never pay said by GOLFnSUN :3- An Appeals court in Wash,DC is much more likely to override the decision than any California Court. An appeal from the California District Court would normally go to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in California, it would only make it to Washington if the Supreme Court granted review. | |
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 |  |  |   GOLFnSUN Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
3 edits | Re: MS will never pay said by vpoko :said by GOLFnSUN :3- An Appeals court in Wash,DC is much more likely to override the decision than any California Court. An appeal from the California District Court would normally go to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in California, it would only make it to Washington if the Supreme Court granted review. Read the news item. It goes to Wash,DC because that is where all patent case appeals are heard.
»www.nytimes.com/2007/02/23/techn···&emc=rss
If he does not, Microsoft will probably take the case to the federal appeals court in Washington, which hears patent cases. »usgovinfo.about.com/blfedcourts.htm
The Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit( » www.fedcir.gov/about.html ) has nationwide jurisdiction and hears specialized cases like patent and international trade cases. -- -- My BLOG My Web Page | |
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 |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02 | Re: Wow Actually that's a pretty big angle considering they together provide IPTV service to many of the world's largest telcos... | |
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  AnonProxy Proxy of Anon Premium join:2001-05-12 ß | MS will not have to pay... you watch and see this will be overturned because it was a BAD decision. | |
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 rradina
join:2000-08-08 Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Doesn't make sense... I understand Microsoft licensed the technology and paid fees to Fraunhofer. How is Fraunhofer awarded a patent to which a company pays them fees if a third party can win a judgement for that same technology?
Obviously Fraunhofer may not have a valid patent but if true, will Fraunhofer be sued by MS for damages resulting from the false patent?
My guess is $1.5B can be absorbed by MS but if MS is successful at passing those damages to Fraunhofer, it would ruin them.
Although I think the amount is questionable, the jury must have convincing facts that Lucent has reasonable claim. Somewhere inside Microsoft there's a very nervous patent lawyer who advised them that they only had to pay Fraunhofer. | |
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 |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard Premium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: Doesn't make sense... trust me if MS where to take legal action against Fraunhofer i bet the RIAA would join in(since they created MP3 and thats what most pirate songs are.....) -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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 |   fdghdfe
@optonline.net
| said by rradina :the jury must have convincing facts that Lucent has reasonable claim. Juries for corporate cases don't give a crap about either company. Do you think any of those jury members can even relate to $1.5 billion dollars or even put into perspective? Only when it involves someone vs. the government is when people care because they don't want their tax money going to someone else. | |
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 |   birdfeedr Premium,MVM join:2001-08-11 Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS
| From the article:
Microsoft argued that one patent in question did not apply to its MP3 software and that the other was included in the Fraunhofer software that it paid to license.
Moreover, it argued that the damages sought by Alcatel were unreasonably high, pointing out that it paid Thomson, which represented the consortium in its dealings over the patent, a flat $16 million fee for the rights to the MP3 software.
We think this is just plain wrong, Mr. Burt said. They told the jury to measure damages, not on the value to Microsoft of one of the 10,000 features in Windows, but on the value of the entire computer.
Alcatel argued that the damages should be based on a royalty of 0.5 percent of the total value of Windows computers sold.
John M. Desmarais, a partner with Kirkland & Ellis who represented Alcatel, said the proposed damages were consistent with patent law. He said it was not appropriate to compare them with the $16 million Microsoft paid Thomson because the rights to the Bell Labs patents were far more valuable.
Its like going to the supermarket and paying $1 for a bar of soap, he said. That lets you use the soap. We were offering the equivalent of the right to make soap any way they wanted.
The jury supported Alcatels arguments on every count except one. It deadlocked on the question of whether Microsoft willfully infringed on the Bell Labs patents. If the jury had found that it did, Microsoft would have had to pay triple damages. said by rradina :I understand Microsoft licensed the technology and paid fees to Fraunhofer. If they licensed the "software", but not the technology, then Microsoft didn't pay enough people off.
said by rradina :Obviously Fraunhofer may not have a valid patent but if true, will Fraunhofer be sued by MS for damages resulting from the false patent? My guess is $1.5B can be absorbed by MS but if MS is successful at passing those damages to Fraunhofer, it would ruin them. Maybe, and their defense is they didn't represent themselves as holder of the patent, but as developer of the software.
said by rradina :Although I think the amount is questionable, the jury must have convincing facts that Lucent has reasonable claim. Somewhere inside Microsoft there's a very nervous patent lawyer who advised them that they only had to pay Fraunhofer. It was a calculated risk on the part of Microsoft.
In case you've never been called to jury duty, you should be aware that what the jury decides depends on the facts presented, and the credibility of who presents it.
I was on a jury hearing a medical malpractice suit. The lawyer for the doctor was pretty slick, but no-nonsense. The lawyer for the plaintiff was either incompetent, or was playing as a "country lawyer just looking for justice." He had a good chance until he came back to court after a coupla martini lunch. He flubbed his facts so badly, I felt sorry for the plaintiffs, but they eventually lost because he did not do a good job.
Should the jury have found for the plaintiffs? No. There was not sufficient evidence the doctor was guilty. We only had the facts presented to us to decide. We cannot make stuff up just because we have a prior opinion.
As a matter of fact, that's what jury selection is supposed to uncover: prior opinions.
Presentation is everything. That's why good lawyers make good money. | |
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 |  |  rradina
join:2000-08-08 Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Doesn't make sense... said by birdfeedr :...Presentation is everything. That's why good lawyers make good money. One would think that Microsoft pays for the best... | |
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  GilbertMark Premium join:2001-05-02 Gilbert, AZ | Hmm MS will pay, but it will be in the form of vouchers to purchase their fine products... | |
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 majortom1029
join:2006-10-19 Lindenhurst, NY | hmm THis will get overturned considering microsoft liscenced the tech from the other company who helped form the ,mp3 standard. | |
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 Chewyrobbo
join:2005-04-12 Tacoma, WA
| Revenue Why would they go after anyone other than Microsoft? They have the implementation in their os's, which account for most personal computers. I don't believe however this will effect them at all. In addition I think the comment about Google surpassing Windows is just silly. Sure you can see a short term profit, and long term do to the sheer amount of money they can take and re-invest into other profitable things, but straight up Microsoft has more cash and assets, and just imagine what 50 Billion dollars can earn in interest in a day. | |
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  TellmeANOTHRER
@comcast.net
| Being ordered to pay for your crimes and actually paying... ...are two very different acts. MICROSUCKS would rather tie this judgment up in appeals and spend the $1.5 billion on litigation than pay for their crimes. Hell Bill Gates can literally pay off the national debt with the money he has stolen thru consumer fraud but he ain't in jail - YET.
In American you can buy all the justice you can afford. | |
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 |  rgillis70 Premium join:2002-12-30 Herndon, VA
| Re: Being ordered to pay for your crimes and actually paying... You do realize that they set aside the money for the judgment almost immediately, in case they lose appeals? That is the way these case run, this way companies cannot snub their nose at the judgment and spend the money while they "tie this judgment up in appeals".
That is one reason they have ONLY 40 - 50 billion in case on hand. They have billions (or at least hundreds of millions) already set aside for judgments and pending litigation.
AS far as the national debt...he ain't worth a TRILLION dollars yet. So he won't be paying that off any time soon.  | |
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  insomniac84
join:2002-01-03 Schererville, IN
| The biggest reward and Microsoft was already paying for it? How can the biggest patent reward be handed out in a case where a company was paying to license the patent? It doesn't seem micrsoft or any company paying the German Fraunhofer Institute, is intending to not pay for the use of mp3 patents. Shouldn't Alcatel-Lucent's first step be to sue the German Fraunhofer Institute for all the money they received from companies over the technology? Then go after those that weren't licensing the patent? | |
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  insomniac84
join:2002-01-03 Schererville, IN
| Biggest award and Microsoft was already paying for it? How can the biggest patent reward be handed out in a case where a company was paying to license the patent? It doesn't seem Microsoft or any company paying the German Fraunhofer Institute, is intending to not pay for the use of mp3 patents. Shouldn't Alcatel-Lucent's first step be to sue the German Fraunhofer Institute for all the money they received from companies over the technology? Then go after those that weren't licensing the patent? | |
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 r3vld Premium join:2005-05-19 Austell, GA | lol google will beat microsoft. google is powerfull wish they made Google OS | |
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 |   odreian615
join:2006-01-18 Chicago, IL | Re: lol You have a Digg account(Google is GOD) dont you | |
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 |  |  r3vld Premium join:2005-05-19 Austell, GA | Re: lol google is more powerfull then god. helps me find stuff. | |
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 |  |  |  |  r3vld Premium join:2005-05-19 Austell, GA | Re: lol lol. at least google shows itself. and God don't. | |
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  odreian615
join:2006-01-18 Chicago, IL | Next targets Quicktime, Real, and maybe Napster | |
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  batterup I Can Not Tell A Lie. Premium join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ clubs: | WAG Looks like Bill got caught with with a bogus Windows genuin Advantage.
Bill is a crook, I'm crook it all comes out ever in the end. | |
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 drainbamage
join:2000-10-30 Beverly Hills, CA | bell labs the foundation of how Bell Labs plays the patent game was established at the beginning of the century, my money is on them...... | |
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  Link Logger Premium,MVM join:2001-03-29 Calgary, AB
·Shaw
| So who owns the copyright So the part I'm concerned about is who owns the mp3 patent and how aggressive will they be, for example any mp3 player who hasn't paid the licensing fees is going to be sued, which I suspect is most mp3 player vendors. Could we be forced to abandon the mp3 format because of this, which takes on the feel of an evil RIAA plot (almost too much so).
Blake -- Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool | |
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 |   thender2 Glamour Profession Premium join:2004-05-16 Staten Island, NY
1 edit | Re: So who owns the copyright said by Link Logger :So the part I'm concerned about is who owns the mp3 patent and how aggressive will they be, for example any mp3 player who hasn't paid the licensing fees is going to be sued, which I suspect is most mp3 player vendors. Could we be forced to abandon the mp3 format because of this, which takes on the feel of an evil RIAA plot (almost too much so). Blake I hope so, the MP3 format has been the worst of all the compression formats for any given bitrate for over five years now.
Not natively gapless, the only real codec with steps for bitrate in 32 kbps increments(bad for VBR), the only codec with a bunch of bad encoders in addition to decent ones.
I'd love to see Vorbis(.ogg) or Musepack(.mpc) become popular. This was an issue back when standalones had trouble decoding other formats. However, there are portables nowadays that cost less than $300 that can decode 7**x3** xvid video with AC3 audio.. so why the hell not other formats?
The ones that do can decode other formats, but most are still locked to MP3/WMA unfortunately, and this isn't going to change. -- The Problem With Music.
Our Rationale
Time to rewrite the DMCA. | |
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