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story category MPAA: ISPs Should Be Copyright Cops
In order to save bandwidth?
(old news - 09:09AM Wednesday Sep 19 2007)
tags: Fileswapping · business · bandwidth · content
The push is on by the entertainment industry to force ISPs to become copyright nannies, and the justification for ISPs taking on these costs varies depending on who you ask. NBC thinks ISPs should be forced to purge pirated material from their networks because piracy hurts theater revenue and therefore hurts corn farmers. The MPAA's Dan Glickman says that ISPs should jump on board in order to save bandwidth:

"Their revenue bases depend on legitimate operations of their networks and more and more they're finding their networks crowded with infringed material, bandwidth space being crowded out," Glickman told an audience composed mainly of attorneys at a daylong seminar called 'Legal Risk Management in the Web 2.0 World.' "Many of them are actually getting into the content business directly or indirectly. This is not an us-versus-them issue."
The fear of a bandwidth apocalypse is used by everyone as a boogeyman these days, notwithstanding the fact that said crunch never arrives -- and never will. Despite some whining of bandwidth use, piracy is this industry's "killer app" and continues to drive adoption, something you'll obviously never see an ISP admit to. Other than AT&T, ISPs won't be jumping at the bit to police their own networks for pirated content.

Unless they're forced to.

A new law being proposed by Hollywood's Representative Howard L. Berman (D-Los Angeles) would force ISPs to constantly monitor their network and automatically send warning letters to customers should they access pirated content. How ISPs are supposed to effectively do this on a technical level has yet to be outlined.

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Forums » MPAA: ISPs Should Be Copyright Cops
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs:

boo

So should the phone company censor me if i say fire on the phone since that could cause public panic which is illegal? What if someone was referencing a usatoday article and said terrorist should they be censored since terrorism is illegal. just some food for thought.
permalink · 2007-09-19 09:13:44 · Reply to this
Cogdis

join:2007-03-26
Floral Park, NY

Impossible?

Do they expect ISP's to have people monitoring downloads at random?
permalink · 2007-09-19 09:26:22 · Reply to this
ackman

join:2000-10-04
Acworth, GA
·AT&T Southeast

Re: boo

said by jgkolt See Profile :

So should the phone company censor me if i say fire on the phone since that could cause public panic which is illegal? What if someone was referencing a usatoday article and said terrorist should they be censored since terrorism is illegal. just some food for thought.
AT&T will happily forward that information to the jack-booted NSA thugs, who will show up promptly on your doorstep to usher you off to the offshore torture center in Poland. Doesn't matter if they got it right on every case, or that we occasionally torture an innocent, it just matters that they're helping to keep you safe from terrorism. The Reich would have it no other way.
permalink · 2007-09-19 12:10:32 · Print · Reply to this
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

edit:
September 19th, @10:44PM

Re: boo

said by ackman See Profile :

AT&T will happily forward that information to the jack-booted NSA thugs, who will show up promptly on your doorstep to usher you off to the offshore torture center in Poland.
Pure hyperbole...

I can't find any information that the NSA even has any powers of arrest.
permalink · 2007-09-19 22:32:14 · Reply to this

jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:

Re: boo

said by NormanS See Profile :

said by ackman See Profile :

AT&T will happily forward that information to the jack-booted NSA thugs, who will show up promptly on your doorstep to usher you off to the offshore torture center in Poland.
Pure hyperbole...

I can't find any information that the NSA even has any powers of arrest.
Where did he say arrest?
--
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA *
permalink · 2007-09-19 23:40:23 · Print · Reply to this
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: boo

said by jhboricua See Profile :

]Where did he say arrest?
He said:
quote:
AT&T will happily forward that information to the jack-booted NSA thugs, who will show up promptly on your doorstep to usher you off to the offshore torture center in Poland.
"Arrest", by any other name, is still "arrest".
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
permalink · 2007-09-20 21:53:44 · Print · Reply to this

cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Levittown, PA

Spin away from the real truth: MPAA abusing judicial system

for its own gains as it failed to have a competent business model. (aka missed the boat).

Corn farmers? They are making more selling for ethanol than the crappy, chemically-preserved styrofoam that theaters sell at a 200% markup (along with 500% markup beverage).

Whaaaa. GO EFF yourself MPAA. And your movies suck.
permalink · 2007-09-19 09:22:47 · Reply to this

AZ_OGM

join:2007-01-12
Phoenix, AZ

Re: Spin away from the real truth: MPAA abusing judicial system

But piracy hurts the corn farmers twice.
First, for not buying overpriced popcorn at the overpriced theaters.
Second, for not using an ethanol guzzling SUV to go to the theater or your neighborhood Blockbuster/Hollywood Video.
permalink · 2007-09-19 10:33:21 · Reply to this

antwanp
Hoo Hoo, Fred. I invented everything
Premium
join:2002-05-14
Cedar Hill, TX
clubs:

Re: Spin away from the real truth: MPAA abusing judicial system

NIce!
permalink · 2007-09-19 14:40:03 · Reply to this
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD

dead industry

the sooner the current incarnation of the MPAA and RIAA and the business models they are trying to protect die, the better consumers and the nation will be.

until then, suck it up and don't pay for any of their crap.
permalink · 2007-09-19 09:23:11 · Reply to this

MagMan
Life is simpler when you tell the truth.
Premium
join:2003-10-01
Westlake, OH

What crap!

If it happens with AT&T they will definitely loose me as a customer.Once again more big brother!!!
permalink · 2007-09-19 09:24:45 · Reply to this

Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL
·1and1
·AT&T DSL Service

Re: What crap!

Why not expect someone else to protect their "babies" ?
Parents in this country expect it. What's the difference?

If someone doesn't like whats on TV, they get it removed, Don't like whats on the internet? Try and get it removed.

The Pussification of America is almost complete.
permalink · 2007-09-19 09:32:22 · Reply to this

ChaosLurker

@fdn.com

Encrypted Links Anyone?

So...how does the MPAA propose the ISPs should break encrypted links? Encrypted P2P might be vulnerable, but there are other 'sources' that are probably being used that aren't P2P. I know that one major 'discussion group' provider has SSL. And they aren't the only one.
permalink · 2007-09-19 09:30:06 · Reply to this

TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast

Re: Encrypted Links Anyone?

said by ChaosLurker :

So...how does the MPAA propose the ISPs should break encrypted links? Encrypted P2P might be vulnerable, but there are other 'sources' that are probably being used that aren't P2P. I know that one major 'discussion group' provider has SSL. And they aren't the only one.
You can encrypt your link all you want, but you can't hide WHERE the data is coming from. And if ISPs start deciding which IP addresses are providing pirated data, they can block them - provided the Berman law backs their move.
--
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page
permalink · 2007-09-19 14:22:11 · Print · Reply to this
phantom6294

join:2002-02-27
Abingdon, MD
·RoadRunner Cable
·Comcast
·Cablevision

Re: Encrypted Links Anyone?

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

You can encrypt your link all you want, but you can't hide WHERE the data is coming from. And if ISPs start deciding which IP addresses are providing pirated data, they can block them - provided the Berman law backs their move.
What about VPNs? If one were to create a VPN to some other network, all the ISP should ever see is packets going to the VPN server and doesn't have a clue what is in them... or am I mistaken? Obviously, the ISPs could block the IPs of VPN providers...
permalink · 2007-09-19 22:16:58 · Print · Reply to this
bamabrad

join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL

The way I see it-

Is that I lease private space from my provider-therefore I am responsible for the content on my site-not the ISP.
permalink · 2007-09-19 09:30:23 · Reply to this

jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs:

outsourcing

They may just outsource the monitoring to the chinese.

"think about it"
permalink · 2007-09-19 09:38:54 · Reply to this
Mark F

join:2007-08-01
Fort Wayne, IN

Re: outsourcing

Getting Chinese involved as "net nannies"? Could that mean that anything I printed off the web would be either be heavily censored or come out printed with lead paint? MF
permalink · 2007-09-20 12:45:16 · Reply to this

jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs:

Re: outsourcing

funny
permalink · 2007-09-20 13:12:39 · Reply to this
dougau
Premium
join:2007-08-09
Dickson, TN
·AT&T Southeast

The MPAA and RIAA should be responsible for themselves

The MPAA and RIAA should be responsible for protecting their own products. The broken court system we have needs to issue a injunction on the IRAA and MPAA releasing new content until they take steps to adequately protect their own content. Maybe the Government should tax them ten million or so per album or movie the studios release that use any type of infrastructure whatsoever that is not owned by the studio like Roads, phone lines, Etc. to help recoup some of the cost in protecting their copyrights.
While I don't condone piracy I don't believe ISP's (and their for all internet users) should have to incur the extra cost of protecting the MPAA and RIAA's content for them.
Maybe the ISP's should sue the MPAA and RIAA for usinf their networks to distribute their products for profit while they don't get anything.
permalink · 2007-09-19 09:42:23 · Print · Reply to this

mrchris
Stop deleting my posts
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY

Re: The MPAA and RIAA should be responsible for themselves

Products? That's what the artists should be responsible of, not the record execs that sit on their asses all day doing next to nothing.
permalink · 2007-09-19 10:30:21 · Reply to this
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

The MPAA and RIAA needs to worry about other things....

How about getting your stars off of drugs for one.
permalink · 2007-09-19 10:04:35 · Reply to this

Jameson
1010
Premium
join:2004-05-28
Fallbrook, CA
clubs:

ISPs:

Let the MPAA & RIAA do their own dirty work.
permalink · 2007-09-19 10:15:50 · Reply to this

gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

Re: ISPs:

If MPAA and RIAA want isp's to filter for them, they should pay a profit sharing % from the revenue.
permalink · 2007-09-19 11:00:02 · Reply to this
cornelius785

join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA

 i agree, why should the ISPs be forced to be proactive against piracy when it is not their music, movies, applications etc. that is being shared? all ISPs should be forced to do is cooperate with the police by supplying needed logs related to a particular piracy incident, not some stuff that a company wants them to do.
permalink · 2007-09-19 11:20:38 · Reply to this

Jameson
1010
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join:2004-05-28
Fallbrook, CA
clubs:
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·HughesNet Satellit..
·surpasshosting

Re: ISPs:

said by cornelius785 See Profile :

i agree, why should the ISPs be forced to be proactive against piracy when it is not their music, movies, applications etc. that is being shared? all ISPs should be forced to do is cooperate with the police by supplying needed logs related to a particular piracy incident, not some stuff that a company wants them to do.
Agree.
permalink · 2007-09-19 11:21:41 · Print · Reply to this

TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
said by cornelius785 See Profile :

i agree, why should the ISPs be forced to be proactive against piracy when it is not their music, movies, applications etc. that is being shared? all ISPs should be forced to do is cooperate with the police by supplying needed logs related to a particular piracy incident, not some stuff that a company wants them to do.
It is the same theory of law that forces pawn shop owners to make sure they can prove the goods they have aren't stolen. Of course, some pawnshops make no attempt to enforce that law, but many do. And the ones that don't often get arrested and/or they turn in those who are pawning stolen merchandise. But any way you look at it, it cuts down on fenced goods.
--
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page
permalink · 2007-09-19 14:24:52 · Print · Reply to this

Dan2007

@comcast.net		 They must not be paying off the right people; they don't really expect this is going to free to them do they
permalink · 2007-09-19 18:21:17 · Reply to this
maxpower

join:2006-10-09
Providence, RI

Glickman

Does anyone else think Glickman looks like George Bluth??
permalink · 2007-09-19 10:22:39 · Reply to this

Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

I am farting in your general direction


YOU Evil Pirates you are ripping Nick off and he needs the money, dope ain't free.
snort, cough, drool, Hey man Go MPAA, cough, cough, hack gag........
--
Eat a BLT for Iran
permalink · 2007-09-19 10:39:16 · Print · Reply to this

PhoenixDown
-- Ron Paul 2008 --
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
clubs:

What really hurts Theaters

Is the piss poor experience you get...

I catch a lot of movies in the theater with my friends but more and more I find myself disappointed at the poor framing, the 'wear' on the film and the hiccups in the audio. It detracts from the experience and its not why I'm spending a ton of money.

If my home theater becomes better than a professional movie theater, then maybe I should just wait for it to come out on dvd and rent it on netflix.
--
{Insert Something Witty Here}
permalink · 2007-09-19 10:53:51 · Reply to this

johnarama

join:2007-02-15
France

Encrypted file sharing...

I think this sort of nonsense will end once everyone catches on to the encrypted file sharing solutions that are available. With GigaTribe, for example (»www.gigatribe.com), all exchanges are encrypted, so the ISP can't tell that a user is sharing "x.mp3", the ISP will only know what software the person is using, and as we all know, software doesn't break laws - people do - but they'll have no way of knowing who's being naughty and who's being nice!
permalink · 2007-09-19 10:59:14 · Reply to this
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·AT&T Southeast
·Mediacom

Re: Encrypted file sharing...

said by johnarama See Profile :

I think this sort of nonsense will end once everyone catches on to the encrypted file sharing solutions
Hmm, I think that this sort of nonsense will end when copyrighted material is no longer distributed without the copyright holder's consent.
said by johnarama See Profile :

the ISP will only know what software the person is using
As well as the originating and destination IP addresses and some other "fun" information. The ISPs may not know the actual content passing through the encrypted tunnels, but that doesn't mean they can't throttle/block connections for the sake of "managing their networks".
permalink · 2007-09-19 12:15:46 · Print · Reply to this

bky
Premium
join:2002-07-05
Austin, TX

Re: Encrypted file sharing...

johnaramam, you must reeeallllyy like this software to be using these forums to push/spam/promote the living hell out of it:
»/postlist/1439···tart&p=1
permalink · 2007-09-19 16:07:21 · Reply to this
kd6cae
P2p Shouldn't Be A Crime

join:2001-08-27
Palmdale, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
·Dreamhost
·Charter Pipeline

leave users alone already!

Why exactly do the **AA's want to keep their old outdated business model? Why aren't they willing to offer what the consumer wants without making the consumer feel like they're entertainment is restricting them?
I back up CD's I have to an online off site dedicated server so I can retrieve them later should I lose the physical discs. Is that such a horrible thing? Does the industry honestly believe they'll be able to totally stop content sharing, which by the way was going on long before the internet?
I'm amazed that the industry really believes in not being able to back up content you've purchased, instead wanting users to pay for every single last instance of the exact same content a user wishes to have! This is not the 20th century anymore, get with the times already! Try leaving us and our ISP's out of your craziness and actually offer what the consumer wants. Offer us the option to download your content from good fast server clusters, with no crappy DRM nonsense, therefore allowing us to both play and back up the content on any device of our choosing. Do all this for a reasonable price, and I'll bet you'll be shocked at just how much more business you'll get! If you think sueing consumers is the best way to go, then damn you industry folks are idiots, plain and simple!
permalink · 2007-09-19 11:40:34 · Print · Reply to this

DOStradamus
MVM
join:2003-11-04
Santa Rosa, CA

The MPAA is Obsessed With "Corn"

They want to save the "corn farmers" by assaulting our ISP's, and therefore our, "corn holes".

-NK
permalink · 2007-09-19 11:49:56 · Reply to this

cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Levittown, PA

Re: The MPAA is Obsessed With "Corn"

"Pop! They are "corn-dogging" the ISPs! Butter get over here!"
permalink · 2007-09-19 11:54:50 · Reply to this
jericho

join:2001-07-20
Halifax, NS

hurting theater renenue??

hurts theater revenue??? that is so damn funny , look at the profits the movie industry makes every year and you tell me if there hurting or not, these ppl are just incredible.
permalink · 2007-09-19 12:13:44 · Reply to this

SRFireside

join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
edit:
September 20th, @09:47AM

Re: hurting theater renenue??

If the movie studios are so concerned about theatre profits how about they lower their costs to lease those movies out so the theaters can actually make ends meet without having to resort to price gouging snacks?

//Edit for spelling
permalink · 2007-09-19 13:49:45 · Reply to this
XknightHawkX

join:2003-02-13
Morton, IL
clubs:

 From what I read a while back. Not sure where. But I thought the theater doesn't get any of the money from the viewing of the movie. All the money that the theater gets if from popcorn, soda and snack sales. I may be wrong. Just have a thought that I read this somewhere at one time.
permalink · 2007-09-19 19:35:33 · Reply to this
rangerlg

join:2006-05-10
Houston, TX

Re: hurting theater renenue??

Close. The theatre usually gets anywhere from a dime to a quarter per ticket sale. The rest goes to the studio.
permalink · 2007-09-19 23:46:29 · Reply to this

Kilroy
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-21
Sterling Heights, MI

How bad do they want it?

Are the RIAA and MPAA willing to supply the necessary funds to implement and maintain what they are requesting? Do they even have a clue as to what they are asking?

I'm having a hard time even coming up with anything else that could be used to relate to this request. Essentially they want someone else to bear the costs involved with detecting and protecting their content. They don't seem to have a clue as to what is required to accomplish what they are asking. Especially when in reality the task is impossible.
--
How hard does DRM have to bite before business abandon it?
permalink · 2007-09-19 12:24:35 · Print · Reply to this
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Pittsburgh, PA

No ISP wants to open this can of worms!

The minute an ISP decides to censor any type of data they might as well get out of the business. If they give in to the MPAA demand to become censors then who is next?
permalink · 2007-09-19 12:48:03 · Reply to this
margaf77

join:2000-12-22
Rego Park, NY

edit:
September 19th, @02:18PM

Re: No ISP wants to open this can of worms!

said by Sammer See Profile :

The minute an ISP decides to censor any type of data they might as well get out of the business. If they give in to the MPAA demand to become censors then who is next?
And when they "get out of the business" who are you going to get your access from?

This isnt the time of dozens of ISPs to choose from. I have 2, both huge companies who have the attitude "you'll take whatever we give you and like it" Time Warner or Verizon arent going anywhere if they did implement this. Sad but true.
permalink · 2007-09-19 14:15:39 · Print · Reply to this
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Pittsburgh, PA

Re: No ISP wants to open this can of worms!

Actually they would end up spending a lot of time in court and paying a lot of money to lawyers.
permalink · 2007-09-19 16:10:41 · Reply to this

SteveLV702
Premium
join:2004-04-22
Henderson, NV

Movie Theatre Revenue

Well it its hurting movie theatre revenue maybe movie theatres should have their own Investigation Unit and they should police the internet and they should arrest the pirators and make them serve free labor at the theatre...
permalink · 2007-09-19 14:29:40 · Reply to this

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest

...and monitor by IRS, Justice, FBI, DEA, CIA, Immigration..

... and let's not forget they need to prevent their users from saying anything that any Corporation considers "Bad" public relations! In fact let's just censor the hell out of everything and sue all users who say anything anyone doesn't like, no matter how TRUE.

Something embarrassing or harsh? Yank it down, and ban/censor/arrest the poster!

Why would an ISP want to take on the costs, but more important, the LIABILITY of doing these things?

SAFE HARBOR FTW! Please don't destroy the Internet (and further damage the USA in general.)
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)
permalink · 2007-09-19 14:35:39 · Print · Reply to this
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