 | | Makes sense does it not? Further news....
The sky is blue and water is wet!
It would only make since being those same people wouldnt spend $70 on a connection and the free version requires $300 for installation. Which can be paid over time, but none the less they may see that as a barrier. Add to the fact that it is either 1GB or 5MB. That gives little incentive for those that may be paying $30 or $40 for a lot more speed to switch if they simply dont want to take on the additional cost regardless of speed. | |
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| | | | Re: Makes sense does it not? said by juilinsandar:Google is such a rich company. Why can't they just do free installs and call it a business expense?
I thought the whole point of this build out was to help low income areas get good broadband service.
I wonder why people don't work for free. Seems we think alike. 
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»the53.tumblr.com/ | |
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| | | maikii
join:2012-08-08
Pacific Palisades, CA | Re: Makes sense does it not? Never a question of altruism. Google is by far the largest seller of online ads. The more people online, the more money Google makes. So even if they lost a lot of money on the fiber installations, they would make that up many times over by larger numbers of people on the net. | |
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| | openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | said by juilinsandar:I thought the whole point of this build out was to help low income areas get good broadband service. Where did you get that silly idea from? This experiment is a playground for Google to expand its advertising model. Even Karl Bode  admits that Google isn't being altruistic with this project. | |
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| | | | | Re: Makes sense does it not? Karl is a HUGE fanboy of this project and barley andmits anything wrong against Google since they're a HUGE supporter of this website thus giving him a nice pay check each week.
He praises this beta like it's the next best thing since sliced bread. He has gone to say this would actually cause prices to drop in both TV and internet- which it has NOT in TV costs. Oh wait- he has claimed that about Apple and their TV product as well and the google TV product.
(starting to be another Ryan Seacrest and the amount of BS he advertises)
Google will sell this project in 2 years and Google will still be the hero as Karl and the other Google goons will claim "it wasn't a model that Google could stand to compete in" the same as Google did with GoogleTV and its Nexus products that were to shape the way Americans buy phones. | |
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| | | |  tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Re: Makes sense does it not? said by 25139889:Karl is a HUGE fanboy of this project and barley andmits anything wrong against Google since they're a HUGE supporter of this website thus giving him a nice pay check each week.
He praises this beta like it's the next best thing since sliced bread. He has gone to say this would actually cause prices to drop in both TV and internet- which it has NOT in TV costs. Oh wait- he has claimed that about Apple and their TV product as well and the google TV product.
(starting to be another Ryan Seacrest and the amount of BS he advertises)
Google will sell this project in 2 years and Google will still be the hero as Karl and the other Google goons will claim "it wasn't a model that Google could stand to compete in" the same as Google did with GoogleTV and its Nexus products that were to shape the way Americans buy phones.
Yep, Karl's such a big fan of Google that any time the subject of Android comes up, he either ignores it entirely, or shits on it.
LOL.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| | | | | | This project could be giving out golden eggs and food to all in poverty and you would still come here and find something to bitch about it and speak negative of it.
Just be honest... you dont like it because it shames the companies that you are trying to protect. Companies that, beyond making major profits, suck in just about every way. But really when it comes down to it, that is all you care about. | |
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| | | | | Reviews:
 ·Callcentric
| Re: Makes sense does it not? said by Skippy25:This project could be giving out golden eggs and food to all in poverty and you would still come here and find something to bitch about it and speak negative of it.
Just be honest... you dont like it because it shames the companies that you are trying to protect. Companies that, beyond making major profits, suck in just about every way. But really when it comes down to it, that is all you care about.
Spot on. | |
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| | | | Reviews:
·Callcentric
| said by 25139889:Karl is a HUGE fanboy of ....
Likewise, I'd like to see you explain why Verizon wired so many ghetto areas with FIOS. I'll answer it for you: because they received government subsidies to do so and loved it.
Then again, pick any republiCon state, county or district. Time and time again, you will see the same people (especially businesses) who scold government and taxes, be the first to utilize these same funds.
Lets face it, business hates government doing anything but loves it whenever government funds their business. Case in point: $1 Trillion annual defense expenditure; with the majority siphoned off to unaccountable private contractors. | |
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| | | |  LightSPremium
join:2005-12-17
Greenville, TX | You complain, and complain about Karl's news reportings, yet every time I see a Google news article, you come in and bash not only them, but also Karl.
Why do you come here? | |
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| | | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Re: Makes sense does it not? said by davidhoffman:It is primarily designed to allow Google web application engineers to have a large enough experimental base to try out new ideas that require very large bandwidth among a relatively large base of subscribers. Google has said that this first fiberhood rally will not be the only chance for the fiberhoods to get enough people to sign up. They needed an indication of who was really interested in Google Fiber. The areas that are greened up by the deadline of 9 September 2012, form the first phase of signups that are activated. Google indicated that there would be a second rally for areas in KCKS and KCMO not listed in the first rally. After that would come the other small cities nearby that have signed on. Then there would probably be the second chance rally for areas that failed to meet the quota the first time. There has been a lot of criticism of the 25% requirement. Why was there not a 15% or 20% option for quotas?
Because by 2 years the entire city will be covered anyways?
The rallies are merely for who gets Google Fiber FIRST. Not who gets it at all.
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"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| | | | And this is my whole point on Google. They do NOT care about anyone only the free PR this site and others are giving them and making the residents in that are look like - for lack of better words- a bunch of total nut cases begging Google for this service.
Google is going to do the same thing that other companies do. And as far as this Baltimore not having FiOS- that is NOT true. I was recently there on vacation and every neighborhood i went through had VZ ONTs on the homes. Even the rental properties I looked at. | |
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| dra6o0n
join:2011-08-15
Mississauga, ON | Or maybe they are just farmers and don't need the internet? | |
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| | Reviews:
 ·Millenicom
 ·AT&T Southeast
·Verizon Wireless..
| Re: Makes sense does it not? I happen to know some farmers. They use the internet if they can afford it and it is available. Lots of satellite and dial-up. Some cellular and WISP. They research costs for equipment and supplies, equipment repair and modification techniques, new crop varieties and crop rotations, animal wellness issues, and, seed and crop prices. They do online banking and e-mail. How much they can do in the World Wide Web depends on monthly usage caps, connection latency, data transfer speeds, and reliability of the internet connection. Providing dependable affordable very high speed internet access to farmers and farm communities would help them function more efficiently and effectively. It can be fiber optic or something like Ubiquiti's new AirFiber »www.ubnt.com/airfiber or better satellite or OTA TV whitespace usage or something else. Just like we expanded electricity and POTS to rural areas to help them become better, we can find some combination of technologies that can expand higher speed internet service to rural areas. It is not going to happen in 2 years. It will probably be 2021 when we have the cost and technology issues resolved for the majority of rural areas. A lot of that depends on expanding some of the major and minor fiber optic trunk lines enough to provide feeds for wireless technologies. It also depends on wireless spectrum allocation decisions that have yet to be made. | |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Thou Doth Protest TOO MUCH Google is giving away service at zero monthly cost if you can scrounge up $300 for a one time install and people are complaining?
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. | |
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|  intellerSociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK | Re: Thou Doth Protest TOO MUCH yeah what is that, like maybe turning 2 or 3 tricks down on the corner? Shouldn't be too hard to get that kind of scratch.
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"WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!" | |
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| | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: Thou Doth Protest TOO MUCH said by inteller:yeah what is that, like maybe turning 2 or 3 tricks down on the corner? Shouldn't be too hard to get that kind of scratch. So what?
Or maybe give up on that premium cable subscription.
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. | |
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| | |  tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3
 ·Comcast
| Re: Thou Doth Protest TOO MUCH But for some who a barely keeping the rent paid, or eating decently, or paying for meds, another $25 a month + say, equal or more amount for a computer and software (remember these are unlikely to be really the most computer literate shoppers, and without internet now online shopping is tough, so a chunk of peeps are left with the library or school or perhaps a charity to start with.
You may think it's a no brainer (and this is the crowd that would definately benefit from the learning side of the net) but for a fair number it's beyond their current means, or beyond their scope of importance. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Thou Doth Protest TOO MUCH Well it's interesting that the low income areas that have mostly low income immigrants are getting enough registrations - both in KCMO and KCK. It would seem that low income immigrants see more of an 'American Dream' opportunity than non-immigrant low income areas. Is interesting the anthropological aspects Google's experiment exposes. | |
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| | | |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | True, but even people I know who are low paid working stiffs still have Internet and Cable TV.
When I used to be one of them my Apartment complex took Section 8, and they ALL had Cable TV back then, either legitimately or stealing it, but no way they went without.
Priorities, I guess. BS, I call it.
I make good money now and don't have cable TV at all, but I consider Internet access essential.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | If they could earn that well they'd be living in a better neighborhood | |
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| | | Gotta agree. This is cheaper than any other service out there. People should be clamoring for it at that price. | |
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| KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | There are many people who expect everything for free.
They feel they are entitled to it. They aren't forking over $300 or even the sign up fee.
No, they will raise allegations later on of being ignored or left out or discriminated against and then wait to get it for free.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | Re: Thou Doth Protest TOO MUCH if any of that were true, it would still never come to pass. | |
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Reviews:
·Comcast
| Customer Equipment How many low income households have the necessary routing equipment, let alone a computer? Even the 5/1 service isn't going to do anything if there is no computer. Low income households would have jumped on this offer if they had the income for the lowest price DSL or Cable HSI service. | |
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|  Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Re: Customer Equipment said by TriForce:How many low income households have the necessary routing equipment, let alone a computer? You'd be amazed. I've seen people save for a new laptop or desktop here, and you can use an old P3 or P4 as a router. | |
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| |  espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
·Vitelity VOIP
| Re: Customer Equipment said by Simba7:you can use an old P3 or P4 as a router.
A consumer router would pay for itself in power saving in a couple months. | |
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| iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 | All they need is a computer (e.g. a Chromebook). GOogle supplies the router. | |
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| | | | Re: Customer Equipment There are a lot of dirt cheap used computers/laptops in thrift and pawn shops, fast enough to surf the Net. | |
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| | USF! Shouldn't the FCC be taxing the rich folks to pay for the poor folk's access to broadband? Oh wait. | |
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| | | Re: USF! that isn't what the USF is for. | |
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| | More an issue in KCMO than KCK KCK (city of Kansas City, KS) is the lowest income city of the KC metro area (though not as low as say Gary, Flint or Newark) and is what Google first targeted. The registrations look pretty spread out and some low income hoods have enough registrations. I'm not really seeing a digital divide for them.
KCMO (city of Kansas City, MO) is more affluent on the west side, lower income in the central east side and low density in furthest e side. There's a clear distinction in registrations in KCMO where the moderate/high income areas are fully qualified and very few low income areas have enough registrations. If Google has no plans to go into KCMO's E Side, the digital divide will worsen.
KCK was Google's first target and KCMO was added as more of an afterthought. If Google stays in the ISP business, and they may not, you'd think they'll eventually cover the whole KC metro area down the road. Is curious that Google has no interest in the highest income suburbs (so far). Johnson County (SW part of metro) is essentially where most of the tech companies are yet not announced yet, most of the rest on in the affluent part of KCMO, which will get Gfiber. KCMO's northern suburbs are also above avg income but no announcement yet. Google has said they plan to do a second round of registrations for N and S KCMO suburbs later. | |
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| | . Exactly how much is the service? | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
 ·Verizon FiOS
| incentive.. perhaps 5 megabits wasn't enough of a value proposition for the $300... either the installation fee should've been lowered or the speed increased. many low income people live hand-to-mouth and don't believe in the pay now, get a better value later concept (after learning that google can pull the plug in about 2 years)
In the end, if the low income people don't want it.. You still can't blame people for being skeptical.. what good is having a fiber optic connection to your home if your only going to get 5 megabits.. I could see google offering a dual play for about $70 and including Google Voice as a primary phone line, but perhaps they weren't thinking about the low income people.
Many communities are in a downward spiral much like in 2007 - 2008.. they have worries about how they're gonna survive the next day, the next week, the next month financially.. Even with google fiber in the community, you're not gonna see a flurry of activity to re-locate a business to these communities right away..
This is what minnesota thought would happen (with muni fiber projects), and it's been a mixed bag..
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1 edit | Re: incentive.. It also may be race based apathy in some areas vs others. KCMO's NE side has a lot of low income African/Asian/Latino immigrants and most hoods in that area have enough registrations. In KCK, which has more latinos than blacks, most of the Latino hoods have enough registrations, moreso than low income blue collar white/black areas. I don't want to suggest there is an 'unmotivated black oppressed' feeling in KC but it is curious that low income immigrant hoods have enough registrations. Could it be that immigrants have more half glass full feeling of 'American Dream' opportunity than more low income areas of established non-immigrant blacks/whites?
Hate to turn this into a race discussion but it's not an unreasonable social observation and Google's little experiment is exposing it. | |
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| | Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: incentive.. Maybe not as much to do with race, but alot to do with education and values.. typically the more educated you are.. the more you will value internet access and access to information/technology. As for a generational gap with "cell phone only" households.. this may be partially true, but again it feeds into my central idea about education and values. The less educated you are, the more you don't value certain ideals and principles or advantage some over others. Plenty of young people across the country would kill for a 1gbit fttp connection.. but 99.999999% won't up and move to this geography to get it (hey, that leaves a couple thousand wealthy fanatics.. start up the marketing campaign).
Either they (low income households) don't understand that millions of consumers don't even have the choice to get internet access of any decent kind because their incumbent telco & cablecos are lazy, greedy and anti-consumer and they have a unique opportunity to put their community on the map for alternative infrastructure OR they just don't care.. believing that it just won't enhance their lives.. and this is in stark contrast to what the glossy Google fiber promotional video showed (primarily the well-to-do geographies of both KC's)... Google didn't seem to show or care about the downtrodden in the city enough to ask what they wanted or valued.
I'm still optimistic that this will prove worthy enough of an undertaking to stay beyond the 2 year minimum pull out time..
how much longer it stays after that is upto the community. It's quite possible this will all depend on the economy more than any other social factors.. including politics and incumbent bashing & brainwashing of people against google. | |
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tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
| Hmmm.. .. reading the fiberhood pages I just learned different areas have different % goals to meet due to construction cost (so says google).
It seems that at least the construction cost value should be wrapped in to the install cost, as this really skews the cost/value ratio. It's hard to fathom the 5% to 25-30% range of pricing for an all airel plant following the city grid.
This goes beyond mere income skewing the result but some unknown construction multipler cause some areas to need substantially more signups than others to qualify.
I also notice that some areas that quick reach their goal, get bonusses like free service to the elementry school or wi-fi.
Seems Google is playing off one group against another...Of course it will be really funny when they reveal this was all a Sacha Cohen prank and nobody gets anything. | |
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| tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Re: Hmmm.. said by tshirt:.. reading the fiberhood pages I just learned different areas have different % goals to meet due to construction cost (so says google).
It seems that at least the construction cost value should be wrapped in to the install cost, as this really skews the cost/value ratio. It's hard to fathom the 5% to 25-30% range of pricing for an all airel plant following the city grid.
This goes beyond mere income skewing the result but some unknown construction multipler cause some areas to need substantially more signups than others to qualify. By and far, the low income areas have the 10% qualifications, while the middle/higher income areas have the 25-30% qualifications.
Google is already trying to help out the low income non-immigrant areas.
I also notice that some areas that quick reach their goal, get bonusses like free service to the elementry school or wi-fi.
Seems Google is playing off one group against another...Of course it will be really funny when they reveal this was all a Sacha Cohen prank and nobody gets anything.
Moreover, the motivation isn't to "play one group off another", it's to motivate the schools, police, firemen, etc. to get their communities signed up so they can get free Google Fiber.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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| | ,,, Anyone pause to realize that they have to start building out SOMEWHERE? Even if the entire town will be 100% wired eventually, you still have to start in 1 neighborhood and work out...
Why is this even a news piece... | |
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| | | Re: ,,, Because Google is specifically saying (at least for now) that if a neighborhood doesn't get enough registrations, they won't go there. | |
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| | | | Re: ,,, It does make sense though that if almost nobody in the neighborhood wants it, why spend all the money on it there when you have other neighborhoods much more excited about it? | |
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| | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | said by xenophon:Because Google is specifically saying (at least for now) that if a neighborhood doesn't get enough registrations, they won't go there.
YET. | |
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Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
| Not even offered in northern KC, MO We have a friend in northern KC, MO.
She lives in the Platte Woods/Royal Oaks North area, near I-29 and NW72 St.
Area is not affluent, nor poor.
Middle class, to upper middle class.
Google Fiber is not even offering anything near that area.
From map that I saw, they were not offering anything north of the Missouri River. | |
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| tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3 | Re: Not even offered in northern KC, MO That's long way out of either city, MAYBE if the rest of the city is 100% sucessful they MIGHT build out to that area,
But they face the same "currently lower density" problem that every overbuilder faces. you have to draw a line somewhere. | |
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 JonPremium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL | why would they... waste time and money installing it in areas were people aren't really interested? | |
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1 edit | Re: why would they... exactly. There's a big difference between what Verizon and Google are doing.
Google is giving you the opportunity to get your area rallied and sign up. 10% is a very low threshold. If you can't even get signed up for $10, then you really don't "need" google fiber. All the information is public and disclosed. Completely fair.
Verizon on the other hand is cherry picking on their own using whatever internal metric they came up with. I wouldn't be surprised if their redlining has a much higher threshold. | |
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BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH | It's not Google's fault... It's not like Google told poor neighborhoods not to apply to become fiberhoods. | |
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| Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Lack of Google Fiber Pre-Registrations. said by davidhoffman:A further point made by community organizers and activists was that public schools could not promote Google Fiber. That would be advocating for one private company's internet services over another private company's internet services. Not legal in either state. In communities where the schools take the lead for organizing for better community services, the restrictions have hampered rallying efforts.
Seems like a law better suited for North Carolina than Ks or Mo... | |
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| | Reviews:
·Millenicom
·AT&T Southeast
·Verizon Wireless..
| Re: Lack of Google Fiber Pre-Registrations. It is a tricky thing. I remember saving Campbell's Soup labels, some cereal company's boxtops, and I think Libby's can labels for my public elementary school to redeem for supplies and equipment. We were reminded to bring them in from home about 6 times a school year. Start, middle, and end of the semester. No big assembly, just 2 minutes during home room. They would tell us what the school had received during the last semester and what they might get if we saved up enough labels. If I remember correctly, slide and film projectors were a much sought item. They also sent a note home about it at the start of each semester, along with all the other paperwork to be read by parents before each semester started.
The public middle and high schools I attended did not do the label collecting. The PTAs were larger and organized more donated or discounted equipment from local suppliers. They also had more fundraising activities for the general public to participate in. You would see small "donated by" stickers on some AV or athletic equipment. That was about all the boosterism of a private company that I saw. No big assemblies or rallies.
Now, the private school kids, they did have some rallies and assemblies to get supplies, services, and equipment. The laws governing private schools did not care about the issue of the appearance of favoritism. | |
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| | | | Reviews:
·Millenicom
·AT&T Southeast
·Verizon Wireless..
| Re: Lack of Google Fiber Pre-Registrations. "Sure, it's nice to give free Internet connect to the poor, but if the are so poor can they afford a computer? Do we have to give them that also? Are the poor going to generate any business? Are the poor going to be responding to ads?"
An interesting thing occurred with Google's 5/1 $300 offer. A local non profit had wanted to use Google Fiber to build a low cost WiFi mesh network for a low income area. Google said no to that use. The non profit was disappointed until the 5/1 plan was announced. The resulting cost of $3.57/month was much less than the $10 to $35 per month they were going to charge for a similar service. The members of the non profit indicated that the money saved on the service could be used to purchase a basic computer to do internet searches at home. Saving $25/month for 24 months, results in $600, enough to get a basic laptop or desktop. You would still have 4 years of service, assuming 1 year to pay off Google and 2 years of saving for the computer, at $6.25 per month net resulting cost. Still cheaper than dial up or the lowest DSL or cable tier. | |
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Re: Makes sense does it not?
