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join:2000-09-16
Portland, OR
| Time Will Tell One would like to give them the benefit of the doubt... but we've been burned so often in past.
I wish them the best to succeed at it!
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»www.wwiivehicles.com
World War II Vehicles and Advanced Squad Leader | |
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72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA | Re: Time Will Tell They are not responsible for admin who don't patch even though its available. Not sure what idiot is blaming MS for a worm when the patch was available for a month. But then again its PC to bash MS so I guess everyone has to do it. | |
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wildwest
join:2002-03-24
Stockport, IA
clubs:
| I Agree I agree with siemerc..
Only time will tell but I do hope they start taking it more seriously then they have in the past.
[text was edited by author 2003-10-10 18:07:11] | |
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UnKown
The Underground Network
join:2002-09-08
Orlando, FL | Re: I Agree Agress with the above ^^^, but would like to say that if a hacker wants into a box, then im sorry to say that there going to get in no matter what os. | |
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csiemers
join:2000-09-16
Portland, OR
| Re: I Agree That is very very true.
As I always tell everyone... if someone's desperate enough... they'll find a way to break into it.
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»www.wwiivehicles.com
World War II Vehicles and Advanced Squad Leader | |
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rchandra
Stargate S G-1 And Atlantis Fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
clubs:
| first tenet of host on a network security: if you want 100% assurance that your system will not be compromised, disconnect it and leave it disconnected from ALL networks...Ethernet networks, Internet networks, telephone networks (e.g., no dialups), or any other. The only exception, if one wants to consider it a network, would be the power "network." If even 0.0001% chance of compromise is unacceptable, this is the only way. Only so much can be done to minimize (but not completely eliminate) risk if one chooses to plug in.
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English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules. Blog is here | |
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UnKown
The Underground Network
join:2002-09-08
Orlando, FL | Re: I Agree with windows nt, u have net shares, and all u need the Administrator username and the password and u have full control to that box. sad but true. | |
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orion940
Paralyzed By Confusion
Premium
join:2001-12-23
Windsor, CT
 ·AT&T Yahoo
| Poor MS Ballmer says Microsoft is working closely with security firms in attempting them to keep exploits quiet until the company can develop and release a patch. "I wish those people just would be quiet," Ballmer says. "It would be best for the world. That's not going to happen, so we have to work in the right fashion with these security researchers."
Now what i read out of this is... people talking about holes in security are the only way to make MS work in the right fashion?
Sounds like MS...
O. | |
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Wills
join:2001-01-03
Port Charlotte, FL
| Re: Poor MS No. Remove your obvious bias and reread it.
If people would keep their mouths shut about exploits, then Microsoft could fix them and release a patch before some retard takes advantadge of it.
These people find an exploit, report it to god and his dog, and within minutes every tool on the internet knows about the exploit. Then some hacker who's mommy took him off the boob too soon, needs attention, and then uses that expliot before a fix is put out. | |
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Jet Screamer
@uu.net
 from:
Nam Vet 
| Re: Poor MS In the past Microsoft has a track record of not always fixing security holes that they don't have to. Publishing these problems has been one of the only ways to force MS's hand to deal with these problems. | |
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| averagedude
join:2002-01-30
Mesa, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
| Re: A marketing tactic? Win2004 at a store near you? [rant on]
Are you serious, another OS for 2004? Didn't XP just come out, at least it seems it just did. My goodness, it is getting harder and harder to keep up with the new OS's. If I am getting fustrated with constantly changing OS's, what about all those who are casual users or less. I could go on and on, but stepping down from soap box.
[rant off] | |
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markopoleo
join:2003-04-02
Bonne Terre, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| What i heard was.. They are devoting a whole service pack called SSP.
Secure service pack.
Its basicly a pack you download that updates adds to every program in windows and updates them to most secure. They are going over every winxp code to make this patch possible.
Now the downside to this is, that even if new secure patches come available for some reason they miss something (no doubt they will) you will download update without your knowledge till after it is done it will say its updated.
They figure the cost of privacy vs security its more for secure system's than have a exploit that can ruin a PC.
Love it or hate it. Its coming.
I like it, the only people who will prob be up in arms is all the privacy people, but that will pass like windows activation did.
Also people on slow connects might not be to happy, but im sure they will still make them able to download also or get on CD for shipping. | |
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| brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL | Re: What i heard was.. HAHA again? I don't think they care about it at all! | |
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baby_bear
@attbi.com | Why do I have the haunting feeling that in the 'SSP', MS would slip us thier DRM 'mickey'(No reference to unexpiring copyrights intended)! | |
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Cheetah9
join:2001-01-07
Bethel Park, PA
|  That's what I'm getting tired of!
I'm afraid I'm one of the guilty who have become "gun shy" when Microsoft issues an update.
I do however always make a backup of "C" partition so that I can back out of an unexpected "surprise".
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If everything is under control your not going fast enough!! | |
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| | yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON | Re: What i heard was.. Yeah really. If you read some of the "Agreements" you have to agree to to install an IE exploit patch, you will be agreeing with "You may not post benchmarks of the .NET Framework" WTF does that have to do with IE? Nothing! | |
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| | npyoung
join:2002-09-23
Jacksonville, OR
| You are right, DRM is coming via an unholy alliance between the likes of Intel, AMD, and MS. The approach to security is called Microsoft Next-Generation Secure Computing Base, or NGSCB (originally called Palladium), and it will treat you, the computer owner, as a potential security threat to the monopoly profits of MS and the content industry. They are trying to get you to adopt the bad with the good out of a sense of increasing your computer security. (Think Patriot Act.) Remember, to MS and it's allies: you are the enemy.
The reason that MS is such a security problem is that their code volume keeps growing by leaps in bounds from the practice of imbedding those things that should be applications (like Explorer) deeper and deeper in Windows to lock in the user. Security is directly related to complexity, and complexity is directly related to code size. Thus, the bigger they are, the harder, and more often they fall. Also, at some size point, eliminating one security flaw, creates another unknown one.
So, MS decided, along with the hardware companies and content giants to take a new approach to computer security that does quite a bit more than increase your ability to withstand hacker attacks. The changes are: Memory curtaining, Secure input and output, Sealed storage, and
Remote attestation. This last one, is the best, as it allows MS to determine what applications (or what content) you can view on your computer. They will know if you have been good or bad, and made "unauthorized" changes to your software. It in effect, treats you as a criminal, and as just another attacker or adversary who must be prevented from breaking in and altering your computer!
Of course, if enough people get wind of this and refuse to buy the hardware or software, we can go in a different direction. But increasingly, it looks like MS is intent on imposing these changes on their OS and on their users, thinking that we all will quietly march into our own digital serfdom rather than change to Linux or OSX. (Me; I'm going to get a second computer and start getting familiar with Linux.)
Here is some more reading material on this change: »www.eff.org/Infra/trusted_comput···1_tc.php | |
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Kylemaul
Lovin' My Firefox 1.5.x
Premium
join:2001-03-30
North Port, FL
clubs: | Sounds like a Nazi stormtrooper acronym to me.... | |
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Aggie Dan
Stop... Reverse That.
Premium
join:2001-01-30
Frisco, TX
clubs:
| How about... What about this?
Let's say it has been 14 days since your Microsoft Critical update manager found an update and downloaded it, making it ready to install. But, you are online.
Couldn't Microsoft force your computer into a reduced functionality mode until you applied the patch?
Of course, that would be a DEFAULT setting and you could change that through configurations. But, you'd have to be given the ability to change it.
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Note : The statements made by myself are my own and not the opinions of my employer or of my coworkers. 12.327 GHz Crunching Power | The Ryan Foundation for MPS Children | |
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Da22in
Buck Fush
join:2002-06-10
Charlotte, NC
clubs:
| No auto-updates for me I commend MS for (once again)taking security seriously...but I will not allow Windows to update automatically. I'll get them manually.
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"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it." - George Bernard Shaw | |
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| inTulsa
Premium
join:2002-02-24
| Re: No auto-updates for me I agree - nothing like that for me either. The whole concept of automatic behind-our-backs updating is very dangerous. It would mean far less security as the virus/trojan writers use those same methods to nail us all.
Microsoft should expose their own Marketing and Security people to the same threats that the public has to deal with. They have a fuzzy view of the world from their ivory towers. | |
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| | yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON
| Re: No auto-updates for me Not to mention, an auto update installs that breaks some critical app on a production machine, and there is no rollback for the patch. Just imagine, a few hundred windows boxes all kill themselves  | |
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Techless
Like I care
Premium
join:2002-07-19
Hypoluxo
 ·Vonage
| Would it be better?? Would Micro$hit Winders be a better OS if most of us used Linux and all the Virus and Worms were written for Linux?
No I don't think so.
Careful what you wish for.
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DW SRS • G4R 970 • 4.2.1.10 • GW 66.82.156.41 • XP PRO • ICS • Wired & 802.11B • Here in Sunny So. Fla. | |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| Re: Would it be better?? said by Techless :
Would Micro$hit Winders be a better OS if most of us used Linux and all the Virus and Worms were written for Linux?
No I don't think so.
Careful what you wish for.
That's fraeking funny. MS Winblows is better due to crackers and scipt kiddies?? Uhmm, no. You assumed incorrectly that it was even an operating system worthy of praise. | |
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X_Digit
Binary Enhanced
Premium
join:2003-06-12
Mansfield, TX
| Re: Would it be better?? Windows are only there to be broken! Sooner or later, the glass is going to go flyin'! Too bad Microsoft hasn't invested in "Storm Proof" technology... (not a bad name for a new release; that is, if they ever came up with something remotely stable and secure)!
[text was edited by author 2003-10-11 02:25:19] | |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| Re: Would it be better?? »www.slackware.com/info/
quote:
Slackware Linux can run on 486 systems all the way up to the latest x86 machines (but uses -mcpu=i686 optimization for best performance on i686-class machines like the P3, P4, and Duron/Athlon).
Regards,
Doctor Olds | |
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| | | | Timmn
join:2000-04-23
Tinley Park, IL | I have OS/2 Warp 4, The only problem with it is I can't get it to run on any computer I have except for the old Pentium Pro that's sitting in the corner. | |
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| BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| nahhh nothing meant by it but to see where you stand on the complaint line. to many people bitch about windows but yet never take the initiative to go and use a different os.
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Need a web host try us at www.servercentral.net... message me directly and we can make you some killer deals. | |
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davidnix71
join:2003-06-17
Fort Lauderdale, FL
|  my next box will be a Mac
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See 17 replies to this post |
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paulhaskew
Unoffical Dominos Spokesman
join:2002-01-10
Vancouver, WA
clubs: | :) i am gonna take this seriously; again...  | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| how about. . . How about if the compilers they used refused to compile any program code unless every buffer was checked for overflow conditions. how many years have buffer overflows been around and software is STILL getting exploited by these. i dont only mean microsoft but linux and unix also suffer from this.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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| mc5w
join:2002-06-14
Independence, OH
| Re: how about. . .
When I was doing programming in Fortran or Pascal I had more than one bug where there was a violation of bounds checks for arrays just by accident. If it was not for bounds checking I could have really bolluxed up the computer. | |
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crimsoncrab4
join:2000-08-04
San Francisco, CA
| Optimist Club members... I read the first few comments and couldn't help but laugh. They all must belong to the Optimist Club.
Microsoft never does anything that doesn't effect the bottom line. Need I go through a litany of examples? No, I didn't think so.
They have time and money on their hands as does the news media, so of course they are talking security to death. But ultimately, as one person commented, the code is like spaghetti, it is hardly secure or securable.
Linux? You've got to be kidding! That's going the way of Esperanto!
Now, on to much more important things: when are they going to sell a "real" Chicago pizza in my city?! You know, the ones with spicy sauce that was prepared the day before and using sausage with seasoning... ah... those were the days! | |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| You people are odd yall always tear apart MS and their attempts at securing their worlds...
I use linux and Windows both equally let's face it security is the person behind the keyboards task. All these flaws are found because many systems use it. Try as you may you can't fix every issue no matter how much you people want them too.
Opening their code for peer review could cause billions in damage if a major flaw was found, as well as it being property of MS they have no reason to show you people the source code at all. What this boils down to is that all the freeware/open source people wanna look at the windows code so they can replicate it in their favorite enviroment. This is never going to happen. It's MS property just as much as artists bitch about stolen music and p2p stuff MS has the same rights they have no need to explain to anyone their source at any point in it's life.
Because i know coders can't fix all of windows and make it flawless. It seems they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
People complain the os is too bloated... but with all these checks for conditions of course the os will run slow. Then you complain about being insecure.. what do you want security or speed ??? And please don't point to linux or any *nix variant and say thats speed and security because it isn't as fast as a windows machine is simply because of tasking asessment code.
You people go and complain about windows security... I haven't had a virus or an intrusion in any of my windows or linux machines in years. Because i know how to secure my systems and also I keep ontop of all the patches available even if they don't show on windows update. You want a fast secure system then i say get your pc off the net and load it with bare bones os and go on your way with no net.
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Need a web host try us at www.servercentral.net... message me directly and we can make you some killer deals. | |
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Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA
·Comcast
·Aristotle Internet
| Well, here's a kicker! It's Not fussy about any OS!
I'm not backing MS, because I find the sales practice a poor business model, sell a 3 legged car, get the 4th when it comes in, of course I'm talking upgrades, or rather a functional full version.
But it's no longer a safe world, of course the baby 'scripters' will find a hole and increase the revenue to the business sector, while they look for jail time.
»securityresponse.symantec.com/av···732.html
If an OS was missed, please let me know?
Cheers
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The Rig:OS Win2k Pro. Chenming Case with a 420w PS. 2.66g/533fsb Intel CPU @ 3.34g CoolerMaster IHC-H71 piped air; No less 512meg Twinmos PC3700~466 DDR @ 2.7v ATI 9500 Pro Atlantis (128meg). Seagate 40g 7200rpm @8.5msec | |
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Varlik
Without Honor You Will Never Be Free
Premium
join:2002-01-06
Anderson, SC
| Microsoft + Security = Oxymoron Microsoft's promises to take security seriously are at the least laughable and at the most jusssssssst a little scary.
And whenever I hear someone form Microsoft like Steven A. Ballmer pledge and promise to take their products security and our protection seriously.
Well I can't help but compare this verbal contradiction to this old oxymoron. “We're from the Government and are here to help you!”.
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"Sir SIR! We don't use DHCP servers. We only use IBM & Microsoft servers." From there my call to tech support went steadily downhill.-- --Beyond the doors of the dark, Demon in your heart, Scream & thrash your head, Turn around now you're dead-- | |
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Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA
·Comcast
·Aristotle Internet
| No Love lost! Varlik
But, really it's way bigger than MS. The point {In case it was missed} is every OS is at risk & as already mentioned (via the link)....Show me one that's not on the list, any at all?
Bet $ 2 cents, that very few people are even slightly aware that something more than MS or Linux/Unix even exists, let alone the versions.
I don't care for three things about MS:
1) They never respond to their own prompt for "send info" (fix)
2) They never provide full version upgrades for a "Mistake OS" to their customers.
3) They never provide support, to individual requests that are meaningful.
That's about it here, but don't be fooled ALL OS's are afflicted with 'Holes'!
I have used every single product from MS & have realized, at times it's a necessary evil to work the Reg files; from 3.0 on { & DOS 5.0} to XP. I am changing my mind of late, I will run Linux, but MS has some great points; the only difference is with MS is that it's support is provided outside the MS (Company) arena.
{Edit}I don't think that security with MS is the big "Boggy Man" that people seem to think it is. The only caveat to that comment has already been commented on. With the link offered & the three points that I believe separate function & reality, within any OS environment.
One single thing that MS taught me, was how to work binary very early on, so it's not a total loss
Cheers
--
The Rig:
OS Win2k Pro.
Chenming Case with a 420w PS.
2.66g/533fsb Intel CPU @ 3.34g
CoolerMaster IHC-H71 piped air; No less
512meg Twinmos PC3700~466 DDR @ 2.7v
ATI 9500 Pro Atlantis (128meg).
Seagate 40g 7200rpm @8.5msec
[text was edited by author 2003-10-11 03:22:57] | |
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Latest MS Security Pledge
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A marketing tactic? Win2004 at a store near you?
Oops, who said DSL supposed to be FUN and EASY to install? 
It's one of 6 PCs I run on my LAN. Why? 
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