 
needforspeed59
Cruise Ship Just Passing Through
join:2001-05-02
Glendale, AZ | IMHO: BS I think it is total BS that governments can compete against private enterprise no matter what the good intentions are. What's next: City of Lafayette gasoline stations? Grocery stores?
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Default_Uzer
join:2006-02-13
Springville, NY
clubs:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: IMHO: BS Well said. But if your town built a government owned and operated gas station and offered gas for $2.50/gallon I'm sure it would be greatly appreciated and you would be out of your mind to not fill up there.
Would you want to pay for a local service and see some of the money go back into the community, such as roads, schools and things of that nature or would you rather pay more money for a slower service and kiss your cash goodbye? | |
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| | | Travel_2002
join:2002-10-13
Lagrange, GA
| Re: IMHO: BS I just love to sit back and read comments made by people who are on the "outside" of any fiber project. Right now it's about 80% for and 20% against. Those against are either in some way close to the incumbent or just flat out negative about everything. It makes business sense from the incumbent to fight any competition. On the other hand if they had preformed like they should have in the past then these projects wouldn't be going on right now. These cable companies and telcos have operated a "cash cow" long enough. It's true that some have made improvements as far as technology is concerned, but still lack in customer service and price. They all have the option of building a fiber network but have opted not to do so. They still insist on "coax". Any fiber project being built has to offer the same channels on their lineup as the incumbent and more or the people wont subscribe to it. The internet has to be faster and the phone works better and cheaper. | |
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Nightshade
Beware the Blue Rabbit
Premium
join:2002-05-26
Salem, OR
edit:
March 28th, @05:30PM
| I would totally agree but Lafayette is a unique case. The problem is that Bellsouth was not even going to put in any broadband services for the city, despite that they claim Lafayette is in their territory. So because of that Lafayette citizens said fine, where going to have our own broadband services.
If private businesses are not willing to provide services, or can't get it done, and the citizens want said services, then it is within their rights to do it on their own with the help of government if they so desire. But at the same time the government should only be used as a last resort.
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| | keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Vonage
 ·WestPAnet Inc. CA..
| Re: IMHO: BS Well, then what about rural America? Are we going to get tax money to provide ANY broadband services to places 4 miles away from any town?
Why is Lafayette any different? Ever been there? I cannot in any way see how they deserve this anymore than any other city in America.
Government money is for something enterprise cannot provide because they will make no profit. This includes roads, police stations, street lights, and other projects that simply provide no return on investment.
The case here is if someone set up broadband, they could make a profit (maybe).
This could go very bad. A long time ago when there was a war going on people cut back on things. Women went to work while men went to war. Now, we are bickering about fiber, taking money from the government, that could be spent elsewhere (maybe hurricane survival or flack jackets!). | |
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Nightshade
Beware the Blue Rabbit
Premium
join:2002-05-26
Salem, OR
edit:
March 28th, @07:41PM
| Re: IMHO: BS Well they don't deserve it anymore than any other town in rural America and no I never been to Lafayette but that isn't the point. The point is that the people of Lafayette took action and voted it for themselves when private enterprise didn't want provide any broadband and cable services to the town. From what I heard they have been promising for years to do it. Empty promises are just that, empty and worthless.
After a while it gets to the point where if they want it and they won't do it for themselves, then no one else will. It is oblivious that the private sector won't. I am a strong believer in capitalism but where a capitalistic market fails a community, then I see no problem in the community providing any services for themselves if they so desire the service.
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| | | joker5656
join:2006-06-23
Greenville, SC | this is city money, not Federal money people. there's a difference. Federal money would mean mine and many others who live out of state are funding it, but since its city only those people are funding it. | |
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| | | NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| The people of the city paid through their local taxes. Federal funds did not pay for this.
IMO there is nothing wrong with this setup. In fact I would encourage cities to build all fiber networks and lease access to it so end companies can provide the services.
Outsource maintenance of the network to a company capable of doing it. Then all comers to the market are being charged the same access fees, their equipment has to play with everyone elses.
In the end you end up with standards compliant hardware and probably a better experience for all. Companies will come and go, but in the end they will be forced to compete on their own prices and services without any ability to undercut someone else unless they're willing to give it away for free. | |
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| | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| said by keyboard5684  :Well, then what about rural America? Are we going to get tax money to provide ANY broadband services to places 4 miles away from any town? Why is Lafayette any different? Ever been there? I cannot in any way see how they deserve this anymore than any other city in America. Government money is for something enterprise cannot provide because they will make no profit. This includes roads, police stations, street lights, and other projects that simply provide no return on investment. The case here is if someone set up broadband, they could make a profit (maybe). This could go very bad. A long time ago when there was a war going on people cut back on things. Women went to work while men went to war. Now, we are bickering about fiber, taking money from the government, that could be spent elsewhere (maybe hurricane survival or flack jackets!). Maybe just maybe , its time that the country is run like a business. Where profits should be kept in a reserve so we can lower tax loads or maybe help fund things good for our people.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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| jdmatl
join:2000-04-27
Deerfield Beach, FL
| said by needforspeed59 :I think it is total BS that governments can compete against private enterprise no matter what the good intentions are. What's next: City of Lafayette gasoline stations? Grocery stores? Have you been following this story? Bellsouth and Cox had been promising for years to do this and did not. If private enterprise can't get it done, the more power to the local city govt to take over. I look at Bellsouth/Cox as "big govt" anyway. Both are monopolies.
After all the city govt is run by the local people not the fed govt. | |
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| | Nintendo
join:2007-03-17
| Re: IMHO: BS said by jdmatl :said by needforspeed59 :I think it is total BS that governments can compete against private enterprise no matter what the good intentions are. What's next: City of Lafayette gasoline stations? Grocery stores? Have you been following this story? Bellsouth and Cox had been promising for years to do this and did not. If private enterprise can't get it done, the more power to the local city govt to take over. I look at Bellsouth/Cox as "big govt" anyway. Both are monopolies. After all the city govt is run by the local people not the fed govt. Well put. Lafayette is a stone's throw away from here and people who are not from this area have no idea whats going on here. Im happy for Lafayette. | |
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| | battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000
| I've followed this off and on some. I think the big difference is that the citizens voted for this. EPB in Chattanooga is trying to do the same thing except the citizens and rate payers have no choice. There are also 20 or so providers offering broadband over different mediums. The citizens in Lafayette have no other choice for broadband. | |
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Carl
Premium
join:2004-07-21
Krotz Springs, LA
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: IMHO: BS said by battleop :The citizens in Lafayette have no other choice for broadband. Yes, they do.
Cox cable is available, as is BellSouth/AT&T DSL service.
Both have been available since the 90's, if I'm not mistaken.
I know when I lived in Lafayette, I had Cox cable modem.
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| | espaeth
Misanthrope
Premium
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN | Re: IMHO: BS At least with the big greedy evil corporations the payments are on an opt-in basis. For the 38% of the people who voted no, they still are legally required to fund the development of that infrastructure with their tax dollars. | |
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r81984
Tough to beat.
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Morgan City, LA
·Insight Communicat..
·AT&T Midwest
edit:
March 28th, @06:21PM
| Re: IMHO: BS said by espaeth :At least with the big greedy evil corporations the payments are on an opt-in basis. For the 38% of the people who voted no, they still are legally required to fund the development of that infrastructure with their tax dollars. So I guess they should stop building roads because it is not fair to the many people that do not have cars.
Transportation is essential for an economy to prosper.
Data transportation is just as important as physical transportation.
Those that do not use the internet will still benefit from it indirectly.
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Karl
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: IMHO: BS Stoopid fire dapartmentz!1 | |
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BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
clubs:
·Cox HSI
| Re: IMHO: BS said by Karl :Stoopid fire dapartmentz!1 Your quote actually (ironically) makes the point that most people here need a reality check. The proper role of government is to provide basic services and infrastructure. Public safety, law enforcement, etc are proper and necessary roles. Being a broadband provider hardly qualifies in even the loosest interpretation. Folks, broadband internet access is a convenience, it is not a sewer system or electricity, or a road or a fire department. The fact that neither Cox nor AT&T wanted to build out this thing should tell us something, considering those "evil greedy" corporations only want to make money (how awful of them). The citizens are going to get stuck paying far more for this than was told to them. Like the saying goes, there's a sucker born every minute.
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Karl
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
edit:
March 28th, @07:18PM
| Re: IMHO: BS On the contrary, I think the irony is how a great number of people are perfectly happy spending billions or trillions of tax dollars on all manner of waste, fraud, war, bank bailouts and bridges to nowhere...but the mere idea of a city coming together and voting to wire themselves with broadband infrastructure makes some people fan their foreheads in feigned outrage as if the people of Lafayette just killed a puppy or something....
The people there voted. Occasionally tax dollars go toward infrastructure improvements and not Lockheed Martin missles. Get over it. | |
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| | | | | | | espaeth
Misanthrope
Premium
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·Comcast
·Embarq
| Re: IMHO: BS said by Karl :On the contrary, I think the irony is how a great number of people are perfectly happy spending billions or trillions of tax dollars on all manner of waste, fraud, war, bank bailouts and bridges to nowhere So because the government wastes massive amounts of money on other things, we should celebrate this waste of taxpayer dollars? | |
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jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
| Re: IMHO: BS said by espaeth :So because the government wastes massive amounts of money on other things, we should celebrate this waste of taxpayer dollars? Absolutely. | |
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| | | | | | | | jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA | Wow, that quote was taken completely out of context and distorted completely. | |
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Nightshade
Beware the Blue Rabbit
Premium
join:2002-05-26
Salem, OR | If the people wanted it and voted for it, then they should get it. Let them reap the benefits and suffer the consequences of their vote.
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| | | | | | jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA | I disagree. Broadband internet access has become AS important as either phone or electricity for many Americans. It is certainly an equal to phone service. It should be treated as an inportant addition to basic services in this 21st century world. | |
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natter
join:2000-12-18
Littleton, CO | Re: IMHO: BS "It should be treated as an inportant addition to basic services in this 21st century world."
no matter what it costs the real taxpayers... | |
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| | | | cajun4x4
join:2000-10-02
Baytown, TX
edit:
March 28th, @06:40PM
| I guess you haven't seen the roads in Lafayette then. What a freaking cluster. I hate driving through that place during rush hour. If you ask me it's worse than Houston Galleria area traffic. | |
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| | | | espaeth
Misanthrope
Premium
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·Comcast
·Embarq
| said by r81984 :So I guess they should stop building roads because it is not fair to the many people that do not have cars. Roads are used by more than cars; funding comes out of property taxes (so you can get to your property) and gas taxes (ie, usage tax).
said by r81984 :Data transportation is just as important as physical transportation. Telephone service is important as well, not just for the economy but for emergency services like 911. You don't see governments building out copper PSTN plants... | |
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r81984
Tough to beat.
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Morgan City, LA
·Insight Communicat..
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: IMHO: BS said by espaeth :Telephone service is important as well, not just for the economy but for emergency services like 911. You don't see governments building out copper PSTN plants... Why should the government do that?
Private companies already do that.
In Lafayette the private company refused to install fiber, so the people voted for their government to do it.
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| | | | | jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA
| You don't see govenments building out PSTN plants today, but they most certainly did in the past. The big telcos have bought out those already. Remember telephone service is a mature product. It had similiar issues in its past. Oh, and not just residential users will be using the new infrastructure. I'm sure business will take advantage of the network. | |
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BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
clubs:
·Cox HSI
| said by r81984 :Data transportation is just as important as physical transportation. That is quite possibly the most idiotic statement ever written on the internet. Tell us, please, how many cars, tractors, motherboards, washing machines, etc, has the internet ever built? How much wheat has data transmission planted, harvested, and transported to market? That's right, none.
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r81984
Tough to beat.
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Morgan City, LA
·Insight Communicat..
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: IMHO: BS You obviously are sheltered.
The internet is just as much important as all of those tangible things you speak of.
How do you think all of those things are ordered and scheduled?
Manufacturing could not be as efficient without up to date data which most of the time is over an internet connection.
Try to tell a manufacture that they cannot have internet access and see what happens.
Business is conducted over the internet, if you do not think so then you need to go back to the 1800s.
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JustinMM1
join:2007-11-19
Jennings, LA
 ·HughesNet Satellit..
| Re: IMHO: BS said by r81984 :You obviously are sheltered. The internet is just as much important as all of those tangible things you speak of. How do you think all of those things are ordered and scheduled? Manufacturing could not be as efficient without up to date data which most of the time is over an internet connection. Try to tell a manufacture that they cannot have internet access and see what happens. Business is conducted over the internet, if you do not think so then you need to go back to the 1800s. Good point. I live about 30 miles west of Lafayette and see how quick the city of Lafayette is growing with new businesses. | |
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woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA
·DSL EXTREME
| I can't think of the thread, but a lot of farmers are getting internet savvy for crops,related issues etc. Some are using nav, even cell phones. Companies are relocating to more rural areas. Im from CA, but have relatives in Bush, and lake Chuck, and they would welcome this. If not mistaken the people voted for it and understand the liability. Cox and Bell South (now ATT)sux major big time when you need them to do something. Peace
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| | | | | jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA
| No, the internet and DATA "transportation" just enabled those companies to more easily process the credit card transactions, locate parts & supplies, & generally enable people to find information much more quickly and more efficiently than ever before. Knowledge is power. It is clear that you don't quite get this yet. | |
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factchecker
@cox.net
| said by espaeth :At least with the big greedy evil corporations the payments are on an opt-in basis. For the 38% of the people who voted no, they still are legally required to fund the development of that infrastructure with their tax dollars. That statement is false... Before you talk about tax money being used, check into (a) how LUS runs and (b) how the project is funding itself. There is no tax money being used.
Just because it is a municipal project does not necessarily mean tax money is being used. | |
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adisor19
join:2004-10-11 | Damn this democracy where that majority votes to decide what to do !!! It sucks when you're in the minority, eh ?
LOL
With comments like these, i wonder sometimes..
Adi | |
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factchecker
@cox.net
 from:
Count Zero
| said by needforspeed59 :I think it is total BS that governments can compete against private enterprise no matter what the good intentions are. What's next: City of Lafayette gasoline stations? Grocery stores? Just to burst a hole in your statement, what LUS is doing might actually allow MORE private enterprise to compete for internet access in Lafayette. Projects like Utopia have allowed smaller, independent ISPs to flourish. One such is an ISP called XMission, IIRC. In fact, ATT even sold services across the network (not sure if they still do).
So while you might think it is bad, in reality, people end up winning from greater competition.
But hey, if you believe it wrong for the government to compete against private industry, then private industry should stop competing against government services - schools, military/police (read that as Blackwater, etc.), postal services (ie- UPS, FedEX, etc.), water and sewerage. There are two sides to the coin.  | |
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| GPSrob
join:2007-05-21
| said by needforspeed59 :I think it is total BS that governments can compete against private enterprise no matter what the good intentions are. What's next: City of Lafayette gasoline stations? Grocery stores? Yah, well, I think it's total BS that our government hasn't recognized that broadband is an important infrastructure just like roads and phones and that it hasn't taken steps to secure it's deployment to all citizens' benefit. There is a mandatory build-out rule for power and phones. Why not for broadband? It's more important than POTS since it delivers more and POTS can be provisioned over it. | |
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| fredwilson12
join:2005-04-20
Sacramento, CA
| If you really think this is BS, then maybe you should read the "$200 Billion Broadband Scandal". Here's a good summary about it:
»www.newnetworks.com/ShortSCANDALSummary.htm
Basically, the telecommunications companies haven't done jack squat for us. They've just line the pockets of themselves, their stockholders, and their front groups at the expense of the American taxpayers. If the private enterprise doesn't want to do anything, then I guess the infrastructure should come directly from public funds, and not indirectly through tax breaks to private corporations. | |
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| jc100
join:2002-04-10 | Sort of like the government issuing no bid contracts to companies (Haliburton).... or the government bailing out places (Bear Stern)...... or the regulation of monopolies.. seems you are SOL there need. | |
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murdok610
join:2004-09-05
West Chester, PA
| said by needforspeed59 :I think it is total BS that governments can compete against private enterprise no matter what the good intentions are. What's next: City of Lafayette gasoline stations? Grocery stores? LOL, I guess we should shut down the post office since they compete with fedex and UPS  | |
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Lafayette Fiber: 10Mbps & Local Intranet
Re: IMHO: BS
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