 
nklb
Premium
join:2000-11-17
Ann Arbor, MI
clubs:
| Sad to hear I grew up in that area, it's a shame to hear of this failure! I have friends who were looking forward to this being available where they lived in that county.
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|  | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
 ·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| Re: Sad to hear I only knew of the service being available in very very limited areas. Basically street by street. and A2 was trying something simliar but were using Sky Piolit and Belair not sure if they ever expanded it. Springfield MO also has a limited Wi-Fi network. | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| expected.... Wireless on the municiple level is now a wish list item thanks to the trickle down effect that fuel costs have wrought. Budgets will be through the roof for any simple service that involves vehicles. There won't be any public money for this or any project like it. How sad....I blame Maury Povich!
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dunked
@sbcglobal.net | Re: expected.... There was no public money involved in Wireless Oakland, it was/ is privately funded. It failed because wi-fi technology was never designed for this in the first place. | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| Cisco needs to step in Cisco has a vested interest in WiMax being deployed and every Wifi deployment that fails puts a stigma on any Wix technologies that would come out.
If they do not do something, people are going to be saying Wifi did not work, so why mess with this WiMax stuff.
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| 
DavisPhotog
Flyingphotog
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-26
Oakland, CA
clubs:
2 edits | Police instead With the amount of cops pulling over our rich people for blowing stop signs and eating donuts at 7-11, we're better spending the city's funds on training new cops and battling the inner city's serious crime problems. Which, by the way, they're currently doing in mass.
Damnit, I thought this was about Oakland, CA.
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| Blackened
Your Freedom Fries Are Stale
join:2003-09-29
| Er, yeah.. Oakland is having some major issues with the decision making of their city, and many have been pissed off at their mayor, in particular, who doesn't seem to know his ass from his elbow. I was listening to the guy take calls and complaints on NPR and he's simply clueless.
Every city should have muni, whether it be wi-fi or fiber (clearly because companies, especially the ones we're stuck with, do not have the people's/consumer's interests in mind), but in Oakland's case, with the surge in crime and piss poor infrastructure, they need to simply get their priorities straight. Crime is by far their most important matter, something their mayor has sucked at addressing. Hell, in Richmond and East Palo Alto, two amongst the worst cities in Norcal (that make being an officer seem like being a marine in Fallujah), are doing a better job.
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djdanska
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Glen Ellyn, IL
clubs:
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
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 ·A + Net
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| Re: Er, yeah.. said by Blackened  :Oakland is having some major issues with the decision making of their city, and many have been pissed off at their mayor, in particular, who doesn't seem to know his ass from his elbow. I was listening to the guy take calls and complaints on NPR and he's simply clueless. Every city should have muni, whether it be wi-fi or fiber (clearly because companies, especially the ones we're stuck with, do not have the people's/consumer's interests in mind), but in Oakland's case, with the surge in crime and piss poor infrastructure, they need to simply get their priorities straight. Crime is by far their most important matter, something their mayor has sucked at addressing. Hell, in Richmond and East Palo Alto, two amongst the worst cities in Norcal (that make being an officer seem like being a marine in Fallujah), are doing a better job. Thanks for the info on oakland, Ca. but this is about Oakland County in the state of Michigan. | |
| | | Blackened
Your Freedom Fries Are Stale
join:2003-09-29 | Re: Er, yeah.. Damn. Go me for reading.  | |
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knightmb
Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Naysayers on citywide WiFi should be listened to said by TKJunkMail :People who support the project say it will take less than $6 million to remedy the current problems And this is why projects like this are often derided. They start with great hopes and a somewhat reasonable budget. But the costs ALWAYS escalate and keep on escalating from the low-ball figure quoted to get initial approvals. Those who point out this inevitable FACT at the beginning are called obstructionist; incumbent flacks; naysayers; lacking public spirit; etc. It is just too bad they aren't listened too at the beginning before that $70 million is pissed down the drain. That and the logistics of this projects. I need to get a second job as a consultant for this "large wi-fi" projects because after looking over a few failed ones, I always wonder where all the money went? They quote millions of dollars to get started, you bring up Google Earth, map out some basics of how things should be setup and then wonder where the other 95% of the quote is going? Why does it take so much for the equipment when it's so dang dirt cheap? Where is all the money going? Are they paying every one who works on the project a $1 million year salary?
I think it's just technical people taking advantage of non-technical people that must make the decisions is all I see in nearly every failed large scale wi-fi project. And of course, no one is held accountable, which I imagine part of the deal. Build it or we will sue your company. But so what, doesn't really do anything to the people that worked for that company and made off with millions?
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tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
·Comcast
| Re: Naysayers on citywide WiFi should be listened to said by knightmb :said by TKJunkMail : bring up Google Earth, map out some basics of how things should be setup and then wonder where the other 95% of the quote is going? Why does it take so much for the equipment when it's so dang dirt cheap? Where is all the money going? Are they paying every one who works on the project a $1 million year salary? ? ] ] That's the problem, any jackass thinks they can plan this (via Goog earth or other ) and if the world was flat, that MIGHT work.
In reality, waveform mapping (and TESTING) may not conform to the physical landforms, or the streeview. There is Theory and there are studies (surveys) to confirm said theory .
(the FCC use to see this as a Primary mission)
A realistic bidder would bid double their estimate (plus) but those bids are ALWAYS to high.
Those with "Hype", get the low bid, ask for more, and the project fails. | |
| | | | dagg
join:2001-03-25
Rio Linda, CA
·Cox HSI
·Covad Communications
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: Naysayers on citywide WiFi should be listened to having worked on the failed Tempe AZ mesh, I can say the following:
"THIS!"
Tempe was perhaps one of the most favorable places I have seen to do this kind of stuff and yet it still failed for this very reason.
the AP density required double what they had in the initial bid and still left dark areas.
having been on the provider side in two failed markets (tempe and sacramento which was killed before it was started) i can say that municipalities have no business being in the business of providing bleeding edge technologies (which this application of wireless i still consider to be bleeding edge) | |
| | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| The equipment is NOT dirt cheap. Have you ever priced a Troops AP? they're in the thousands for ONE AP. That's not including the software or any cables to hook it up to the power. Troops seen this and ran with the idea. I'm sure since they're still private they'll be taking this money and running all the way to HSBC and opening up an off shore back account somewhere. | |
| | | | dagg
join:2001-03-25
Rio Linda, CA | Re: Naysayers on citywide WiFi should be listened to ya... the ones that we used were 3500 each for the AP and 350 for the client side units.
very not cheap | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by TKJunkMail :Those who point out this inevitable FACT at the beginning are called obstructionist; incumbent flacks; naysayers; lacking public spirit; etc. It is just too bad they aren't listened too at the beginning before that $70 million is pissed down the drain. The 70 million figure is the estimated costs to bring the network to completion, in three phases.
The 70 million hasn't all been spent--- the project has completed phase one only, but then the private investors financing fell through bringing a halt to the continuing build out and Phase 2.
Basically, the project hasn't run into any un-expected cost over-runs or mismanagement--- it's the economic conditions have changed and the private partners were unable to fulfill their end of the deal, halting the network. The project also uses no tax $$$ to pay for it.
As they have said, they are only a few million away from having scaled back but operational network.... But now the whole project is in jeopardy due to the failure of businesses to secure the financing to complete their contractual obligations. This isn't a case of some Government screwing up, if anything, it's an example of private enterprise dropping the ball....
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| 
marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Not Muni Wifi Quick correction...
Wireless Oakland is not a municipal wifi in the pure sense of the word.
Oakland County neither owns, maintains, nor operates the network. The entire network is built, maintained, and operated only with private money. Oakland County's sole involvement is to provide the land on which the network was built without collecting any rent.
In other words, this was a purely private operation.
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| 
Corehhi
join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
| Really what makes anyone think everyone needs Wifi? I think the idea that everyone needs internet as a utility is just stupid.
Low cost high speed great.
High cost low speed, who cares going out of business.
No cost to poor people? Where's the revenue going to come from? What's ads will support it? 40 Ozers, bail bonds, hand gun ads?
Sorry but people who use the internet will pay for it. The best service will win. People who don't use the internet won't all of sudden have their lives changed. | |
|
In Control
@comcast.net
| oakland, mi Wouldn't you think that someone investing all this time and money would have had a budget set in place before they advanced this far....
When I go grocery shopping I know how much money I have in my wallet, and I also know about what each item will cost...
At the check out I am not faced with having to leave items over my budget, on the counter....
Seems like amatures at work on this project.... | |
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weeksben1
Premium
join:2004-02-26
Clarkston, MI
·AT&T Midwest
| problems Its more that the main WISP involved (if you can call it that), Michtel is in over their head(s). They went from about 20 or so employees when the project started to about 5 (at last check). I also think that the PTBs were trying to go to quickly with this project. It will be interesting to see if they are able to resurrect this project. (And what happens to those who came up with the idea, if they can't).
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Ben WeeksNetwork AdminNovell CNA NW3.2/4.x/5.xNetwork + Certified | |
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Lack of Funds Shuts Down Wireless Oakland
Naysayers on citywide WiFi should be listened to