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story category July Fourth Open Thread
Empty your head
09:52AM Friday Jul 04 2008 by Karl Bode
It's the Fourth of July, so once you've had your fill of fireworks, hamburgers, and potato salad, chat amongst yourselves in the comment section below. Have an excellent holiday!

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MattE
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Happy 4th Everyone

Me and the girl are heading to Virginia Beach to visit my brother. Dinner/Fireworks tonight, Comedy Club tomorrow night, then wake boarding Sunday!

Everyone be safe and remember, if it's not on YouTube, it didn't happen!

TK Junk Mail
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Re: Happy 4th Everyone

Here is a nice video for the 4th of July:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCavKL2zdjM

tmpchaos
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Re: Happy 4th Everyone

Here's a couple of others for you, TK...

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaI5IRuS2aE


»www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ob7cDBMc6g

TK Junk Mail
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Re: Happy 4th Everyone

said by tmpchaos See Profile :

Here's a couple of others for you, TK...
A commie(Guthrie) and a Vietnam anti-war protester(Ochs) who spit on US troops and supported the violent revolutionary group (SDS). Those are your America? Not mine.
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Re: Happy 4th Everyone

They sir were supposed to be American's because they are afforded the ability to do that without being "taken" (by which I mean a bullet in the brain).

I'm not even american, yet I see the irony in your statement. So much for the land of the free, more like the land of the controlled and told explicitly this is how we do it, f u immigrants.

A Merican

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TK Junk Mail See Profile

Re: Happy 4th Everyone

said by Dan See Profile :

They sir were supposed to be American's because they are afforded the ability to do that without being "taken" (by which I mean a bullet in the brain).

I'm not even american, yet I see the irony in your statement. So much for the land of the free, more like the land of the controlled and told explicitly this is how we do it, f u immigrants.
F U immigrants?
We naturalized over 1 million last year.

Our nearest neighbor detains, or shoots-to-kill, those who dare enter without permission.

Why is it, if we're so "F U"'d, that millions more try to break into the country every year?

Damn right, you're not an American.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
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Re: Happy 4th Everyone

When did Canada shoot to kill those that enter without permission ?
Here in SoCal, many find a way in, then (especially if they're women) have a kid paid for by taxpayers, and ride off the system.
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Re: Happy 4th Everyone

said by en102 See Profile :

When did Canada shoot to kill those that enter without permission ?
That was a joke, right? With you living in southern California, it had to be humor.

said by Dan See Profile :

They sir were supposed to be American's because they are afforded the ability to do that without being "taken" (by which I mean a bullet in the brain).
It's the people who maintain the liberty with their sacrifice that are great. Such as those soldiers who were spat upon.

I like Guthrie. But he and the other guy are recipients of liberty, not the creators, nor the maintainers.
They suck off the system more than they put back.

To be fair, since I did not serve my country, I am also more leech than provider.
But since I was a self obsessed, deluded, leftist nitwit in my late teens-early '20s; it was to be expected.

The only thing that allowed me maintain a pathetic state of leftism as long I did was being in the company of so many group thinking minds.

Leftist delusion is unsustainable in the real world.

said by Dan See Profile :

I'm not even american, yet I see the irony in your statement. So much for the land of the free, more like the land of the controlled and told explicitly this is how we do it, f u immigrants.
But it is only with the aid of a seriously warped view of the world that would allow you to find irony where there was none.
What controls you is from within, not without.

This land is free. Less than it used to be, but still a gem among rocks.

Oh. Since you missed it the first billion times,
It's not immigrants that sane people have a problem with.
It's ILLEGAL immigrants.

I'm sure you'll continue to omit the illegal bit, just as you were taught to do.

NV
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FiL
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Re: Happy 4th Everyone

"Leftist delusion is unsustainable in the real world."

But then again, who are you to say what political rhetoric is "proper"?

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Re: Happy 4th Everyone

said by FiL See Profile :

"Leftist delusion is unsustainable in the real world."

But then again, who are you to say what political rhetoric is "proper"?
I haven't mentioned propriety. Sustainability has more to do with resources vs. needs than ethics or etiquette.
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edit:
July 4th, @07:46PM

It was not a "f'd up immigrants" however upon reflection thats how it reads. It was meant as mr TK's vision of what are and aren't "true" americans. He seems to be all for controlling the populous, with blatant disregard what the county was originally founded on. It was for freedom. However mr. TK's feelings that someone protesting war, or anything in today's america that's deemed "un-american" aren't in check with reality. Is it a wonder with people like him that americans are looked down on? I think not. Regardless if one agree's with for or against, yes or no, each opinion is as valid as another.

So yes, TK is entitled to his opinion, however, its a rather slanted view of what democratic choice is about. He seems lacking of compassion for his fellow man, unless you've got the same close mindedness towards the world.

My original comment was meant to be rather tongue in cheek, but as we can see, freedom is demanded so long as others are not informed or have individual opinions.

Free expression? sod that.

P.S. As my sig says, KARMA. Be nice and accepting to others, and you shall receive the same. Do the opposite, well you know. People tend to help others who help others. Goodwill regardless of sex, race or any thing that makes us different is rewarded through kindness. So that being said, my opinion is just that, MY opinion, as is TK's, and that's the great thing, we can all have one, just remember to try and understand EVERYONE's point of view and maintain a certain level of respect.
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Dan
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By the way, the fact I'm not American means nothing. Religion, Countries, boarders, just allows us to be territorial, which IMO is no better than being a pack of dogs fighting for a patch of land. Until we ALL understand that no one is better than anyone, we are all equal regardless of nationality and all deserve the same, we will always have this hatred for those who are different. That is just plain wrong sir, American or not.

BTW, Happy Independence Day (don't forget what it means, and you're not the only ones deserving of freedoms in choice and expression).

Cuchulainn
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said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

said by tmpchaos See Profile :

Here's a couple of others for you, TK...
A commie(Guthrie) and a Vietnam anti-war protester(Ochs) who spit on US troops and supported the violent revolutionary group (SDS). Those are your America? Not mine.
Only to those who see only black and white or "for us or against us" can Woody be portrayed only a Communist. He was a patriot, a virulent anti-fascist and a shining example of all that's good and right about this country. And when Obama is president, I hope he changes the national anthem to "This Land is Your Land" - including this verse:

"one fine morning, in the shadow of the steeple
by the relief office, I saw my people.
As they stood there hungry, I stood there wonderin'
if this land was made for you and me."

TK, step down off your smug, know-it-all high horse for a second. Go out and read Joe Klein's bio of Woody and I guarantee you will be singing a different tune. Your myopic view of the world is getting tiresome.
--
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TK Junk Mail
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Re: Happy 4th Everyone

said by Cuchulainn See Profile :

TK, step down off your smug, know-it-all high horse for a second. Your myopic view of the world is getting tiresome.
Then take a pep pill and suck it up.
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moderated:
July 5th, @10:11AM

Re: Happy 4th Everyone

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

said by Cuchulainn See Profile :

TK, step down off your smug, know-it-all high horse for a second. Your myopic view of the world is getting tiresome.
Then take a pep pill and suck it up.
I am sick to death of your posts which (1) demonstrate a third grade grasp of Civics an Politics or (2) repeat the bloody obvious that WE ALL ALREADY KNOW (e.g., the Judiciary interprets the law).

I notice you bloviate on everything that comes on this site. Guess what? No one cares what you think. Your opinions are unidimensional and demonstrate absolutely no critical reasoning abilities.
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TK Junk Mail
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Re: Happy 4th Everyone

said by Cuchulainn See Profile :

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

said by Cuchulainn See Profile :

TK, step down off your smug, know-it-all high horse for a second. Your myopic view of the world is getting tiresome.
Then take a pep pill and suck it up.
I am sick to death of your posts which (1) demonstrate a third grade grasp of Civics an Politics or (2) repeat the bloody obvious that WE ALL ALREADY KNOW (e.g., the Judiciary interprets the law).

I notice you bloviate on everything that comes on this site. Guess what? No one cares what you think. Your opinions are unidimensional and demonstrate absolutely no critical reasoning abilities.
At least I follow site rules and don't make personal attacks on other posters.
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Combat Chuck
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said by Cuchulainn See Profile :

TK, step down off your smug, know-it-all high horse for a second. Go out and read Joe Klein's bio of Woody and I guarantee you will be singing a different tune. Your myopic view of the world is getting tiresome.
Irony much.
--
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Enjoy your trip. Happy 4th to everyone!

en102
Canadian, eh?

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Re: Happy 4th Everyone

I made sure that I enjoyed both the first of July (Canada Day) with a beer (Moose Head) and the 4th of July with some SoCal style - Tecate and Dos Equis.
--
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DoRight

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Happy 4th

Everyone enjoy your 4th with high gas prices, a downward stock market and the highest unemployment rate in 5 years...

S_engineer

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Re: Happy 4th

said by DoRight See Profile :

Everyone enjoy your 4th with high gas prices, a downward stock market and the highest unemployment rate in 5 years...
Well...now you got the changes that were promised to you by the "new" democrat congress of 2006!

»www.nytimes.com/2006/12/27/us/po···vil.html
DoRight

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Re: Happy 4th

Hey now... I'm a Republican... No matter how bad it gets.. Relect Reagan for Pres...
Airwolf7
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Re: Happy 4th

I second that.

BinaryXtreme

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Reagan? Dead Reagan? Uhhhh.....
DoRight

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Re: Happy 4th

Yes... Reagan from the 80's..

BinaryXtreme

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Re: Happy 4th

Dig him up and he'd still do a better job than Bush.

acid343211
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edit:
July 5th, @01:06AM

Re: Happy 4th

said by BinaryXtreme See Profile :

Dig him up and he'd still do a better job than Bush.
You sure, after all whats why we have the big National debt along will both Bush's.
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said by DoRight See Profile :

Hey now... I'm a Republican... No matter how bad it gets.. Relect Reagan for Pres...
Right... Re-elect the second worst president ever! I don't think so.

The reason why I say this is for one reason, Reagan killed my brother. He was diagnosed with AIDS in the late 80s, back in the beginning. Later, we found that he got it from a blood transfusion. Reagan did not allow for AIDS research, citing that is was a "gay cancer." My brother was not gay, he just got blood from a donor who was. This action by this man, gave my brother a painful death sentence which he did not deserve.
I could go on about how other policies that Reagan instituted were injurious to this country, but I will stand by my main reason, he killed my brother. I will never forgive him for that.... EVER!
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edit:
July 7th, @11:14AM

Re: Happy 4th

I am sorry to hear that. How do you think things would have been different. I know their are advances in medicine now but there is no cure.
It was the Reagan administration that cut through this misinformation and, after careful deliberation, concluded that AIDS patients were entitled to be treated as "handicapped" under federal laws that protect such individuals from discrimination.

This would have been a courageous act for any president, but it was even more so for President Reagan. Given the medical uncertainty and the fact that AIDS was transmitted largely through sexual promiscuity, President Reagan not only needed to educate the public, but also to encourage his core political base to have charity toward those who consciously engage in morally questionable behavior.

He didn't hesitate to do so. When an initial legal inquiry suggested that those with AIDS might not be eligible for civil-rights protection because employers and others could assert a legitimate "fear of contagion," whether or not that fear was reasonable or scientifically verifiable, it was President Reagan who appointed a commission on AIDS that ultimately asked for that legal thinking to be re-examined

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Re: Happy 4th

said by DoRight See Profile :

I am sorry to hear that. How do you think things would have been different. I know their are advances in medicine now but there is no cure.
It was the Reagan administration that cut through this misinformation and, after careful deliberation, concluded that AIDS patients were entitled to be treated as "handicapped" under federal laws that protect such individuals from discrimination.
You shouldn't be sorry, REAGAN should be. Things would have been different, because, if the rate of research could have been stepped-up, instead of hindered, there would have been more life saving drugs put on the market sooner. A lot sooner, and my brother would not have died.
The 'careful deliberation' that Reagan's administration made took about two or three years. This was not time enough to save my brother. Had effective medications been available two or three years earlier, he would have lived.
--
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said by S_engineer See Profile :

Well...now you got the changes that were promised to you by the "new" democrat congress of 2006!

»www.nytimes.com/2006/12/27/us/po···vil.html
Even though we have a Democratic Congress, it is the Republican President who tells Congress what laws he will let in or out.
And in the senate, the Dems have a very slim majority, not enough votes to over-ride a Presidential veto.
So until Bush and company are cut loose on January 20th, we have to put up with the mind set of "My way or the highway, if you don't like it, tough. I am the President and there ain't crap Congress can do about it!"

And as far as those high gas prices go, look no further than the White House. But I shall now step away from the keyboard, lest I really want to go on a political rant.
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Re: Happy 4th

No, I think the democrats got in there and realized they could not do what they said they could. They should have known there obstacles before they promised all that crap.

The problem is/was that they simply did not know what they were talking about. A bunch of politicians that said what we all wanted to hear to get into office.

President in there way? You are going to try to convince me they did not know this and were surprised when they got into office? No, they were just happy to get there and who gives two sh*ts how or what they said, they could not do it. And if they did not know it and YOU did then why were they elected if they were so stupid?

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edit:
July 4th, @02:40PM

said by S_engineer See Profile :

Well...now you got the changes that were promised to you by the "new" democrat congress of 2006!
Yeah! Just think, in as little as 18 months, the Democrats have managed to wreck everything.... by rolling over and giving the Republicans everything they wanted.

Not to mention the trainwreck we've been on since prior to 2001 under current leadership.

Anyone remember Dick Cheney's "Energy" plan back at the start of the Administration? You know, the one they drew up behind closed doors with close friends from the Oil industry? Boy, THAT really worked out great, eh?

Eco Warrior

@rr.com

Re: Happy 4th

said by KrK See Profile :

said by S_engineer See Profile :

Well...now you got the changes that were promised to you by the "new" democrat congress of 2006!
Yeah! Just think, in as little as 18 months, the Democrats have managed to wreck everything.... by rolling over and giving the Republicans everything they wanted.

Not to mention the trainwreck we've been on since prior to 2001 under current leadership.

Anyone remember Dick Cheney's "Energy" plan back at the start of the Administration? You know, the one they drew up behind closed doors with close friends from the Oil industry? Boy, THAT really worked out great, eh?
How soon you forget the admin's proposal to expand domestic drilling, as a matter of national security, which was shot down by Congress. Hope YOU like paying $5/gallon. I moved and converted to human-powered transport years ago, anticipating the consequence of your myopia.

You probably also forgot their proposal to save Social Security. Not to worry, it will go bankrupt now.

KrK
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Re: Happy 4th

Expand domestic drilling sounds good, but it's a smokescreen.

I'm all for some expansion of domestic drilling, *however* there's no evidence that just because we up production here that they will sell it for any less money.....

So let's say production domestically increases 25%. That doesn't mean that gas prices fall 25%. All it could mean is that revenues increase for energy companies.

The real solution is we should be moving as quickly away from energy based on petroleum as is possible. I'm even for building the new, modern, quite safe, nuclear plants.... along with solar, wind, and hydro (even geothermal where practical)...

If we have abundant cheap electricity we can have affordable electric vehicles and hydrogen vehicles.--- and much less pollution.
--
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Re: Happy 4th

said by KrK See Profile :

Expand domestic drilling sounds good, but it's a smokescreen.

I'm all for some expansion of domestic drilling, *however* there's no evidence that just because we up production here that they will sell it for any less money.....

So let's say production domestically increases 25%. That doesn't mean that gas prices fall 25%. All it could mean is that revenues increase for energy companies.

The real solution is we should be moving as quickly away from energy based on petroleum as is possible. I'm even for building the new, modern, quite safe, nuclear plants.... along with solar, wind, and hydro (even geothermal where practical)...

If we have abundant cheap electricity we can have affordable electric vehicles and hydrogen vehicles.--- and much less pollution.
Uh.

Ok, good, you're for nukes. Since when?

We DO have cheap electricity. Cheaper would be nice.
Current electrical generation is based on coal, nukes, natural gas and some hydro. Fuel IS NOT a major cost factor in electrical generation. Startup and distribution and maintenance are. We're not importing natural gas from the Middle East...

What we have is a squeeze on motor fuel, and by extension, home heating oil. I don't know how to address the latter - we intentionally moved away from places that get cold.

Oil ain't worth $140/barrel. It can't be stored for long, it has to be sold and refined. When we start domestic production up again, oil will NOT sell for $140, and the speculators, who bid it up from $70, will lose everything. It doesn't take much additional supply to ruin someone trying to corner the market. This is of course, a short-term fix, which buys us maybe 15 years to get hydrogen (and the nukes to generate it) onboard.

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Re: Happy 4th

said by Eco Warrior :

We DO have cheap electricity. Cheaper would be nice. Current electrical generation is based on coal, nukes, natural gas and some hydro. Fuel IS NOT a major cost factor in electrical generation. Startup and distribution and maintenance are. We're not importing natural gas from the Middle East...
21% of the USA's power generation comes from Natural Gas. Natural Gas has shot up massively the last few years. Here, AEP just got a tariff rate increase of 21% due directly to the cost of Natural Gas. Fuel is actually the largest expense in electricity generation, followed by infrastructure and distribution costs. Having lower electricity rates would make hydrogen much more affordable.

Oil is worth whatever people will pay for it. Yes speculation has fueled the price soaring, but demand is growing worldwide. Producing some additional oil may help a little but is going to do not much in the way of price relief at the pump.

Having said that, as I stated, a little is better then nothing, but we really need to work on other energy sources for vehicles, primarily. Only real way I see long term to cut oil prices is to get working on the demand side.

"Drill for more oil" is politics that won't save us. At best it buys a little more time.
--
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Re: Happy 4th

said by KrK See Profile :

said by Eco Warrior :

We're not importing natural gas from the Middle East...
21% of the USA's power generation comes from Natural Gas. Natural Gas has shot up massively the last few years. Fuel is actually the largest expense in electricity generation, followed by infrastructure and distribution costs.

Oil is worth whatever people will pay for it. Yes speculation has fueled the price soaring, but demand is growing worldwide. Producing some additional oil may help a little but is going to do not much in the way of price relief at the pump.

A little is better then nothing, but we really need to work on other energy sources for vehicles, primarily. Only real way I see long term to cut oil prices is to get working on the demand side.

"Drill for more oil" is politics that won't save us. At best it buys a little more time.
No argument. Expanded drilling is a stopgap measure, but the trouble is, that the forces who oppose everything never actually provide viable alternatives, yet they still consume.

And I sit corrected on the fuel cost. I knew NG soared a couple years back on the spot market, but didn't realize the long-term cost had actually grown so much since I last researched.

For the sleepless, California has a recent report on generation cost calculation which supports KrK's assertion.

»www.energy.ca.gov/2007publicatio···1-SD.PDF

Dropping demand, of course, makes plenty of sense.
But it isn't going to happen if we lower the pump price.
And it isn't going to happen without a huge tax system and/or ration coupons. I'd accept a $5/gallon tax in lieu of property tax and income tax, but somehow, I don't think that would ever sell in our blue state.

Tzale
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said by DoRight See Profile :

Everyone enjoy your 4th with high gas prices, a downward stock market and the highest unemployment rate in 5 years...
Fuck the politicians... For the most part, both Republicans and Democrats both want to fuck us over.
DoRight

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Re: Happy 4th

Right... Have a wonderful day..

N3OGH
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said by Tzale See Profile :

said by DoRight See Profile :

Everyone enjoy your 4th with high gas prices, a downward stock market and the highest unemployment rate in 5 years...
Fuck the politicians... For the most part, both Republicans and Democrats both want to fuck us over.
WOW, someone else who gets it!

While we argue amongst ourselves, the politicians shake hands and plot against us.

It's abundantly clear to me that both sides are in it for the sole purpose of keeping their own jobs (winning elections) and spending as much of our money as they can.

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

It's sad to think we may very well be closing in on this point in our history once again....
--
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acid343211
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said by DoRight See Profile :

Everyone enjoy your 4th with high gas prices, a downward stock market and the highest unemployment rate in 5 years...
Exactly that's why i won't be doing anything this year to expensive need gas more then fireworks.
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dslwanter
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Happy 4th!

I wish you all a safe and happy 4th and I sure hope your weather outlook is better than ours!

I got $2,000 worth of fireworks in the basement, on boards, coordinated & in order and ready to rock and roll! Let freedom ring baby!
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See 7 replies to this post

jchambers28

join:2007-05-12
Alma, AR

fast

this year is going by fast summer will be over before you know it.
decifal

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Bon Aqua, TN

work

I'm at work, living off of 198.00 for two weeks due to an insurance prenium screw up by the staff at my work.. But i'm going to two 4th of july celebrations, one today and one at my folks tomorrow.. So i'll be well fed at least those two days. As long as my little girl is happy, all is well...